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I really have to wonder what Obama is thinking. Dude appears to be as graceful as is expected but he just watched his entire legacy evaporate.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:09
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1stGear posted:I really have to wonder what Obama is thinking. Dude appears to be as graceful as is expected but he just watched his entire legacy evaporate. Also since he's not really a citizen he may get deported
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Nov 9, 2016 14:11
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Wonder if he still thinks Comey is an honorable dude now. There's no way his anti-gerrymandering initiative plan is gonna do poo poo now.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:12
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I'm still trying to process everything that has happened in the last 12 hours. When I turned on the radio and heard Trump won, I honestly couldn't believe it. My first instinct was to figure where the weak link was and saw Clinton lost PA and MI. The gently caress? I actually have a huge sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. But the most terrifying part is not knowing whether this is just because I'm going to eventually have to start working for a Trump appointee or whether I'm actually feeling this way out of fear for my female, minoirty, and LGBTQ friends. Like a lot of goons, my life isn't going to get immediately lovely, but knowing how far down and out this will ripple is overwhelming.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:11
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Ormi posted:It turned out that white people were far more virulently racist than even our wildest expectations, and also a substantial number of white Hispanics desperately want to join the club. It's way more then this. Look at the election results across the board, and notice two things in particular. First off, vote totals -across the board- are lower then previous elections. Especially for the Democrats. Compare the amounts Clinton/Trump won to the Obama/Romney election. Or the Obama/McCain election. Trump was winning some Blue states handily with numbers lower then Romney got, with Clinton barely getting anything. Secondly, the real killer here wasn't a loss of new markets. It was the collapse of old ones. Red Wisconsin? Red Michigan? Red Pennsylvania? Minnesota and Virginia eking in with barely 5k votes to Dem, despite being some of the sturdiest strongholds the Dems have? Democrats had a lock on the Presidency not because people loved the message. They had a lock on the Presidency because the coalition they formed controlled all of the major states in terms of electoral college votes, and Republicans needed to win all the swing states just to be competitive. All Democrats had to do, every year was win Virginia, maybe Florida, and they'd eke out a win. Hell even tonight, all Clinton technically had to do was win Virginia and she "should" have won. The loss wasn't losing Florida, or North Carolina, or even Ohio. She could have lost all of those states and still won tonight. It was losing states that weren't even in play. This then ties around to.....well basically everything about the Democratic strategy so far, and just how bad it's been getting while we haven't been paying attention. Throwing random schmucks into the House positions that have no hope of victory, and no chance to be competitive year after year because why bother when they'll lose anyway isn't a great strategy. Sure the House is largely schmuckville anyway, but the Republican schmucks tend to have better soundbytes. Utterly needing to break gerrymandering, voter suppression, and more, but leaving those fights down the road because they didn't want to seem overly partisan is now biting them in the rear end badly. Part of this is white backlash. But more then anything, this was voters not wanting to engage with this election, and that being utterly key for the Democrats in the Midwest. And that wouldn't be so terrible, outside of the fact the Democratic party has long been way underequipped for doing anything but being President/hopefully Senate. The Democrats need, and needed new blood badly. They need to start funding and focusing on downticket races, and need to actually figure out a system for handling those downticket races as effectively as the Republicans. And they'll now need to work twice as hard, because you can bet your rear end the Republican SC is going to rip up voter rights/help gerrymandering spread across more of the country now, which'll make it even harder for Democrats in the future to win. They likely need to moderate hard, and try to re-energize their base in the Midwest, before it stays red, taking away all paths to power. The fact Florida and NC were as competitive as they were speaks to their ground game. Don't blame predominantly swingy red states for going red for a populist, we didn't need them. Blame blue strongholds for winning with less then 5k votes, or formerly blue strongholds losing to less then 5k votes. That's where the election was lost this year. This year wasn't lost because Trump was a better candidate, or the whites came out in droves, or because of anything Trump did. This year was lost because Democrats largely rejected Clinton, rejected the party, and chose not to engage with the election at all, wiping their hands of the whole mess. The only people that showed up seems to be Obama's minority coalition, and they were betrayed by their allies across the board. That's what killed this election. On the bright side McCrory lost.  ( Bernie 100% needs to leave politics after today. I'd argue he is near 60% the cause of this loss, because from the sounds of things many of the people in the Midwest chose not to vote because they were huge Bernie fans that got led on too long/"Corrupt Hillary". Considering how many losses across the board were at the 1k-2k range, Berniebros did have an affect on this election. As I said, this wasn't a Republican victory, this was a Democrat failure, and much of that ties to Bernie, the corruption scandals, and more I imagine. )
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Nov 9, 2016 14:12
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plushpuffin posted:It would have been a question of degree. Democrats would have made an attempt to mitigate the unfolding disaster. The GOP with all three branches of government under its thumb will make the worst-case scenario for global warming the most likely scenario. Are you sure we're talking about the same Democrats? The ones who have to fight themselves on issues like pipelines and off-shore drilling? In any case, America is only a piece of the problem when it comes to global warming, and sadly a fairly tractable one because of how easy it is for interested people and people-like entities to put money into sabotaging leadership efforts. Even with a green cabinet and congress this would not have changed. What it would have taken to prevent this problem is nuclear power plants not being too scary for the public to bear, a problem that goes all back to the 1980s, and leadership in the 90s that was willing to make the oil companies eat poo poo. A crash program to arrest carbon emissions might have had a chance at the turn of the century, but we didn't have the leadership in place for that either. Now we're going to be looking at building sea-walls and a lot of heart wrenching videos of refugees in less developed nations fleeing and starving.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:12
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Party Plane Jones posted:This one I don't see happening unless we get a Constitutional Amendment, which really would drive Democratic voting through the roof. A new SCOTUS makeup might once again apply rational basis review to same sex marriage, though.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:13
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1stGear posted:I really have to wonder what Obama is thinking. Dude appears to be as graceful as is expected but he just watched his entire legacy evaporate. why did he trust his legacy to be dependant on his former opponent? why didn't he trust bernie with it? why not just ignore the whole election season, if he could not consider this kind of outcome? yeah what a great campaigner
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Nov 9, 2016 14:14
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Welp. Have to figure the ACA is on the execution platform as a first order of business, wonder how that will shake out. Just cut out everyone cold turkey or phase it out over time? I'll also be shocked if we don't see the housing market collapse again in early 2017.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:16
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Zelder posted:I don't know about you but I prefer my excitement in the Rollercoaster variety, not the "complete economic meltdown" variant They're very similar. Either way you don't get to say when the ride stops.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:15
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Rookersh posted:It's way more then this.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:16
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actually, bernie should run in 2020
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Nov 9, 2016 14:16
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John_A_Tallon posted:Are you sure we're talking about the same Democrats? The ones who have to fight themselves on issues like pipelines and off-shore drilling? The Democrats were at least paying the ideas of climate treaties, clean energy, and emissions reductions lip service. The Republicans were outright denying that climate change was even happening in some cases, and explicitly promising to do less than nothing about it in other cases. I'll take a slim chance of possible action to mitigate global warming over a clear refutation of is very existence any day.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:18
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Radish posted:From what it sounds like Trump did worse that Romney. The problem is that Hillary did worse than that. The question is why did Democrats stay home in those states since she won the popular vote. Some people are saying it's a refutation of neoliberal Democrats, but if that were the case why do those areas consistently elect Republicans that also perform those same policies? You have an enthusiasm gap. Wisconsin will be a prime example to study. Outside of the Madison/Milwaukee metro area, swings of 8, 10, or more points toward Trump were the norm. Even in the county that is just an Indian reservation. In the conservative suburbs of Milwaukee, including the famous Waukesha county, Trump underperformed Romney. It's all about who you can get to the polls.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:17
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Can someone please explain to me US civics in a way that will will help alleviate my fear of the "gently caress Mexico, Kill Muslims, and disband NATO" bill of 2017 passing the senate
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Nov 9, 2016 14:19
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John_A_Tallon posted:They're very similar. Either way you don't get to say when the ride stops. tell me where your infinity Rollercoaster is located wizard man
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Nov 9, 2016 14:21
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Fojar38 posted:Can someone please explain to me US civics in a way that will will help alleviate my fear of the "gently caress Mexico, Kill Muslims, and disband NATO" bill of 2017 passing the senate Basically everybody plays nice and respects political norms. Until they don't.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:21
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Pajser posted:why did he trust his legacy to be dependant on his former opponent? why didn't he trust bernie with it? The gently caress even is this It's kind of irrelevant who the Democratic nominee is when the guy who won has the stated position of repealing basically everything Obama accomplished.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:20
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Nate RFB posted:Welp. I want to buy a new house in 2017. Would it make sense to sell mine now, move my family into an apartment, and buy the new house once the market crashes?
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Nov 9, 2016 14:22
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plushpuffin posted:Basically everybody plays nice and respects political norms. Until they don't. Don't the Dems have enough to fillibuster still? If the GOP was able to be obstructionist as gently caress for the past 8 years can't the dems be as well?
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Nov 9, 2016 14:23
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Gridlocked posted:So in the end it was many people being scared, less wealthy then they felt they should be, upset about foreign powers rising above them and disenfranchised with the Democrats after 2 terms of Obama trying his best. Not even nutter groups. Trump won the white vote in every category.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:24
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Fojar38 posted:Don't the Dems have enough to fillibuster still? If the GOP was able to be obstructionist as gently caress for the past 8 years can't the dems be as well? gop will repeal filibuster probably
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Nov 9, 2016 14:25
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corn in the bible posted:gop will repeal filibuster probably Isn't that a really bad idea
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Nov 9, 2016 14:26
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corn in the bible posted:gop will repeal filibuster probably They'd be stupid not to. I just hope RBG can hold on a few more years.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:25
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greatn posted:I want to buy a new house in 2017. Would it make sense to sell mine now, move my family into an apartment, and buy the new house once the market crashes? Depends on where. If you're looking at anywhere in California, I would wait for the secessionist movement to gain some steam. At the first sign of armed conflict the market will start freefalling, and depending on the duration and intensity of the fighting you might be able to pick up some really great land at low prices.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:25
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Fojar38 posted:Isn't that a really bad idea Maybe in the long term. In the short term it lets them do everything they want, including ensuring they win every possible election in the medium term.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:26
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Fojar38 posted:Isn't that a really bad idea only if you lose the senate (they won't lose the senate)
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Nov 9, 2016 14:26
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Fojar38 posted:Isn't that a really bad idea It is if your party ever loses control of government again.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:27
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Radish posted:I dunno. Trump got less votes than Romney. It's more that Clinton didn't get anyone out. It turns out GOTV is poo poo and just getting white people riled up works wonders. How did this happen? How did we allow the narrative to become "both are so bad why even bother"? I know voter suppression was a part of it but god.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:28
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Fojar38 posted:Isn't that a really bad idea Oh yes, the dems will be back in power in ten years and it will be angry millennials and gen x ers leading them. We'll probably pretty much turn it into a rubber stand parliament and use the presidincy in a way that would make Trump proud. Ornedan posted:Maybe in the long term. In the short term it lets them do everything they want, including ensuring they win every possible election in the medium term. I very much doubt they can ensure even medium term domination. Trump will be to the GOP in America what Pete Wilson was to the GOP in Cali.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:29
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The Puppy Bowl posted:How did this happen? How did we allow the narrative to become "both are so bad why even bother"? I know voter suppression was a part of it but god. A lot of responsibility for this falls on the media, both for perpetuating the "both are the same" myth and for exaggerating how bad things were in the USA.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:30
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John_A_Tallon posted:Depends on where. If you're looking at anywhere in California, I would wait for the secessionist movement to gain some steam. At the first sign of armed conflict the market will start freefalling, and depending on the duration and intensity of the fighting you might be able to pick up some really great land at low prices. I'm in Alabama. I bought my first house in 2006, right before the crash. I'm not underwater anymore on it but it's worth about $20k less than I bought it for. Mind you this isn't a fancy house, I bought it at $100k.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:30
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The Puppy Bowl posted:How did this happen? How did we allow the narrative to become "both are so bad why even bother"? I know voter suppression was a part of it but god.  It really seems absurd but I'm having a hard time shaking the idea the relentless focus on the email scandal really did cost Clinton the election on the margin (though it was only one of many things that could have gone differently to change the outcome).
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Nov 9, 2016 14:31
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Lessail posted:Wow this coming from someone who is ok with the result? Who would have guessed??????? Whoa there. I can get people lashing out and misunderstanding my post because they haven't actually read it or attach additional meanings to it. It's fine. It's a problem we liberals have. Whatever. I knew what I was getting into. But this? This is a bridge too drat far. Acceptance is a vastly different thing than "being ok with". I'm extremely disappointed in the election, but also understand and accept it.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:32
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Radish posted:Wonder if he still thinks Comey is an honorable dude now. Honestly that plan may be more necessary than ever. Remember that the census and the redistricting happen in 2020, which is also the next time democrats have even a chance of a foothold in government. Any attempt at redistributing reform will have to come along with victories up and down the ticket in 2020 and the years preceding.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:33
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh yes, the dems will be back in power in ten years and it will be angry millennials and gen x ers leading them. We'll probably pretty much turn it into a rubber stand parliament and use the presidincy in a way that would make Trump proud. yeah, all those conservative white voters will vanish into an abyss in ten years
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Nov 9, 2016 14:33
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It's going to be really loving funny when the republicans still can't pass a budget because the Freedom Caucus and democrats vote together on 'this budget is unacceptable' for opposite reasons. Then again the human brain responds to poo poo it can't even comprehend with laughter so yeah. Feinne fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 14:32
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Rookersh posted:It's way more then this. gently caress that noise. "From the sounds of things Berniebros one again foiled my obviously awesome candidate". There were never large numbers of "Bernie bros". Clinton failed to inspire every democratic demographic and laying the blame on Bernie is how progressives will continue to lose elections in the future.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:33
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The Puppy Bowl posted:How did this happen? How did we allow the narrative to become "both are so bad why even bother"? I know voter suppression was a part of it but god. The Media has been doing that since the 80s. z0glin Warchief posted:
Yeah, I'll admit while Clinton had real issues of being able to be sincere, the Media and Comey will probably both be noted for causing Trump to be President.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:35
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So... Is there someone(s) who knows enough about politics to either write up a post or a thread OP about some of the better avenues to learn and/or get involved with local politics? I know it's likely a behemoth of a topic that varies wildly state to state, but any attempt would be appreciated. I'd like to channel my Serious Feelings about a Trump and GOP-controlled government into some attempt to make a positive impact for those who'll likely be negatively impacted.
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Nov 9, 2016 14:35
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