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Sylink posted:Climate change wont do much damage directly to the American mid-country, we have the technology for the farm country here and the risk is much lower than the poorer parts of the world. Its not great but not the worst possible, search up a risk map. Climate change will continue to wreck massive impacts on the agricultural Midwest. Oh sure, I bet Monsanto will have new seeds that will help but climate change will hurt the remaining smaller or over-leveraged farms out there.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:46
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Doctor Butts posted:That poo poo's going to affect everyone down the line, too. Yeah,, I say eventually reestablish it, but make it contingent on whether you're a decent person. If you're a ancap, well you can live with your principles without it/
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Nov 9, 2016 18:46
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BiohazrD posted:trump literally proved that every single thing we thought you needed in a modern campaign was actually useless. that's insane to think about Turns out all those can be overcome by genuinely connecting with people and having them be excited to vote for you. Oh and add polling to that list.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:45
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Glazier posted:The Castro brothers That's exactly who I was referring to. They just had their legs cut out from under them.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:47
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Eugene V. Dabs posted:Minorities didn't vote as a group for Trump, gently caress off. No but the number of Latinos voting for Trump could well have had a big impact. Only 65% of Latinos supported her, while 29% cast their votes for Trump. In 2012, Obama won 71% of the Hispanic vote, while Romney secured 27%. http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/08/politics/first-exit-polls-2016/ Might well have been the difference in Florida for one.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:47
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Viral Warfare posted:It doesn't help that the Clinton campaign strategy was just baffling. They didn't spend any time at all in the Midwest states- virtually none after the convention- and just operated on 'common sense' that, of course, those states would vote blue, and it cost her the election. The DNC and Democrats in general put way too much stock in owned votes. Leftists should always be voting for them so they can shift right to pick up moderates and Republicans while leftists have to come otherwise they are bad for letting Republicans win. The sad part is Hillary actually incorporated some leftist stuff into her platform but as you point out they took a lot of states for granted. I'm reminded of those idiots that paid to go to an Obama fundraising dinner, sing a song about how he's not living up to his campaign promises, then end it with "well what can we do, we have to vote for you anyway." That's pretty much the DNC strategy for a while and it's slowly atrophied until we are where we are.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:46
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Florida is going to be real interesting when the changes in sea level from climate change really starts kicking in. Beaches gone because of rising waters and fresh water becoming brackish are among the immediate concerns that comes to mind. If things get real dire, it might even force a shift in populations more inland. Would the districts be redrawn again to adjust for this in order to maintain the status quo? Most likely. Would the votes change then? Probably not, people in a group likes rolling in their own poo poo and listening to echoes.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:48
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https://twitter.com/kelbi1lewis/status/796341784448208896 KKK on the bridge in Mebane, NC this morning
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Nov 9, 2016 18:48
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Lightning Knight posted:Yeah the one good thing about this election is now I know donating and volunteering are total wastes. Yay for saving time and money. Political volunteering maybe. Helping improve your local community though is always worthwhile
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Nov 9, 2016 18:48
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BiohazrD posted:trump literally proved that every single thing we thought you needed in a modern campaign was actually useless. that's insane to think about polling? doesnt matter his own campaign has admitted that they were sure they'd lose last night based on all the numbers they had
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Nov 9, 2016 18:47
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Lightning Knight posted:WE HAD poo poo IN THE PLATFORM FOR THESE PEOPLE. We had increased minimum wage, free college, infrastructure funding. We can debate whether that is enough but we had poo poo that would help people left behind by globalization. The democratic voters in PA/WI/MI didn't believe this to be true. Clinton didn't lose because those people voted for Trump, she lost because they either weren't aware of the policies she would be pushing, or didn't trust her to follow through on them, and so stayed home. Some of this is their fault for not trying to educate themselves, some of it is the media's fault for failing to educate them, some of it Clinton's fault for failing to package the message in an easily digestible format. On the last point, I find myself agreeing with Yglesias. Clinton had a bunch of great policies that were well developed in white papers, she knew them inside and out, and she talked about them at length. But when you talk about a long laundry list of policy details that have already been watered down to fit what is more likely to actually get passed, a lot of people tune out, and the media is less likely to write you a punchy memorable headline or get good soundbites to use. Instead, she may have been better served by presenting overarching goals, and leaving the details to the white papers and policy interviews. Like, you got a lot of "we'll push for this much maternity/paternity leave and spend this much more on early-child education and blah blah blah, and college tuition will be subsidized, to qualifying state schools, if you work X hours a week and your family makes under Y annual income" and it went right over marginal voters' heads. Instead, if she'd gone with "We are going to give everyone paid leave when you have kids! College tuition to public schools will be free!", and hammered those big points more, maybe you'd have something for people to latch onto besides loving emails, which is 90% of what people were hearing about. When the remaining 10% is split between a million policy details, none of it penetrates. And maybe that swings the vote in Michigan, PA, and Wisconsin by a total of 100,000 and you win the election. Because, in case we've forgotten already, she lost those three states, states that every democrat in the last 25 years has won and that would have given her the election, by a combined total of less than 100k votes. Barely more than a rounding error. Like 2000, this was an election decided on the margin, and if one of a million tiny things had gone differently we would have President-elect Hillary Clinton right now. (my two examples are both sort of economy related, but I don't meant to imply she should have necessarily spent more time talking about those over racial/social issues, just that the time she spent talking about the issues in general was utilized in a sub-par way, and in such a tight race that could have made the difference)
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Nov 9, 2016 18:47
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Who What Now posted:Because I underestimated just how deep and widespread the cancer in this country is. Everybody did. I mean, if you seriously think all people are idiots who don't care about their well-being, and instead instantly ascribe the darkest possible motives to everything that doesn't align with your preferences, you actually SHOULD give up on politics, because you and people similar to you are going to lose the Democrats countless many future elections. People didn't believe a word of what Clinton promised, but they saw her track record which was a major albatross in this climate, what with her support for war and interventionism, for NAFTA and TPP etc. She represented all the wrong things in the public eye, and campaign promises couldn't overcome this. In the end, she ended up looking worse than a blank slate billionaire. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 18:47
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Mister Macys posted:That's exactly who I was referring to. They just had their legs cut out from under them. turns out it's not a selling point to have opened the DNC with clinton anymore
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Nov 9, 2016 18:48
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Eugene V. Dabs posted:Not actively indulging in hatred of the Other is not running away from the working class. Efforts to court those voters has been attempted in the past, and the response has been swiftboating, birtherism, and all manner of awful garbage. How's the strategy of "gently caress You, Voted Mine" working out for you right now? Like honestly if you want there to be progress you have to communicate with people who disagree with you, and putting all the blame on others is a convenient way to never be responsible for anything. It's not "coddling" people to find out they're scared about poo poo and trying to find a non-racist solution for it. This attitude of superiority is why there's not a common ground, and again, if you want to hold moral superiority, you have to talk to people and understand them even when it's unpleasant and they're combative. Like what's your goal? What's the end game of a progressive party that only caters to a rapidly decreasing base of the "good enough" who can be anointed with the blessed oils of liberalism? Where do you think people are going to be educated on their own to come talk to you and be good enough to warrant your approval when liberals control nothing about education? You're running on spite. It's unhealthy. I know you're scared. It sucks and is unpleasant. But subjugating others to your fear is not right, even when they're doing it to you.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:48
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Lightning Knight posted:Yeah the one good thing about this election is now I know donating and volunteering are total wastes. Yay for saving time and money. The best part about this "lesson" is that it's wrong (improved motivation and GOTV of minorities would have helped), but Democrats are still going to learn it and lose even more elections in the future as a result.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:49
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corn in the bible posted:turns out it's not a selling point to have opened the DNC with clinton anymore Who do the Dems have that is presidential material, and can plausibly claim to not just be "another Hillary"?
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Nov 9, 2016 18:51
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B B posted:https://twitter.com/kelbi1lewis/status/796341784448208896 Have we thought about asking them what their opinions are. 
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Nov 9, 2016 18:51
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I could probably go I told you so but this thread has had enough of them already, so question about an obscure point of US constitutionalism: Assuming the GOP gets to pick the next Justice (or even get more than one for a solid majority as Kennedy is an unreliable moderate who doesn't give a poo poo about evangelical moral hangups when he's more interesting in not going down the history books as an rear end in a top hat), can they try to redo cases like Obergefell, Loving, Brown or Lawrence without the legislative changing the laws in the first place?
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Nov 9, 2016 18:50
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Mister Macys posted:Who do the Dems have that is presidential material, and can plausibly claim to not just be "another Hillary"? i dunno, maybe tammy duckworth she's a lady AND a vet AND she got no legs BUT SHE WILL HAVE LEGS IN THE ELECTION
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Nov 9, 2016 18:52
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If you're not watching Obama's remarks right now you missed the greatest slip of the tongue ever. He flubbed "successful transition" as "sexist transition". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm6rtWV_EkE
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Nov 9, 2016 18:51
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jwang posted:Florida is going to be real interesting when the changes in sea level from climate change really starts kicking in. Beaches gone because of rising waters and fresh water becoming brackish are among the immediate concerns that comes to mind. If things get real dire, it might even force a shift in populations more inland. Would the districts be redrawn again to adjust for this in order to maintain the status quo? Most likely. Would the votes change then? Probably not, people in a group likes rolling in their own poo poo and listening to echoes. They don't redraw Louisiana, despite the fact its falling into the sea as well.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:52
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Mister Macys posted:Who do the Dems have that is presidential material, and can plausibly claim to not just be "another Hillary"? Jon Stewart
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Nov 9, 2016 18:52
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Agnosticnixie posted:I could probably go I told you so but this thread has had enough of them already, so question about an obscure point of US constitutionalism: They would need plaintiffs with relevant cases that make it through enough appeals to get to them but yeah it could happen.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:52
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corn in the bible posted:i dunno, maybe tammy duckworth yeah this could be good they need to start grooming her yesterday though, and not to be another wishy washy "ill do whatever gets me elected" neoliberal but rather a "full communism now" leftist
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Nov 9, 2016 18:52
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B B posted:https://twitter.com/kelbi1lewis/status/796341784448208896 These are the people Steinroker wants us to ally with.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:53
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z0glin Warchief posted:The democratic voters in PA/WI/MI didn't believe this to be true. Clinton didn't lose because those people voted for Trump, she lost because they either weren't aware of the policies she would be pushing, or didn't trust her to follow through on them, and so stayed home. You have to hand it to Trump, whenever somebody unearthed something on him, he just got out there, and carried on with his usual message as if everything went as planned, at most he made some disparaging remarks. Compared to that the Clinton campaign was not only anemic, but also neurotic and defensive.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:53
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the risk map assumes a president & federal gvt that believes CC is an invention. Probably depends on the source, I could dig them up but its a derail, I think most projections just assume the worst.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:52
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The only shred of comfort I have right now is that not all people who voted for Trump are evil. Not all Republicans in congress are evil. Trump, as stunted as he is, isn't evil. All of these people are terribly misguided and getting worse on the high of victory, but for the most part, most of them don't want to see the world burn. There's something in the world that most of them want to protect, and even if it's not the same as mine, they surely recognize that bathing the world in nuclear hellfire won't protect whatever that is. This does not mean I empathize with them or that I'm not incredibly disappointed in them. All it means is that I can step out the door and expect to encounter more or less the same world that existed before Trump won. I have to believe this if I want to continue being a member of society.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:52
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Wife's co-worker who is black was taking out the trash late last night. Someone drove by and yelled "Get out of here friend of the family, Trump 2016!" This is in California. And so it begins.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:54
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Deified Data posted:The only shred of comfort I have right now is that not all people who voted for Trump are evil. Not all Republicans in congress are evil. Trump, as stunted as he is, isn't evil. All of these people are terribly misguided and getting worse on the high of victory, but for the most part, most of them don't want to see the world burn. There's something in the world that most of them want to protect, and even if it's not the same as mine, they surely recognize that bathing the world in nuclear hellfire won't protect whatever that is. This does not mean I empathize with them or that I'm not incredibly disappointed in them. All it means is that I can step out the door and expect to encounter more or less the same world that existed before Trump won. I have to believe this if I want to continue being a member of society. actually if you voted for trump you are literal human scum
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Nov 9, 2016 18:53
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Captain Magic posted:How's the strategy of "gently caress You, Voted Mine" working out for you right now? For the most part I agree, but the people who are already part of the KKK, Nazis and others. We should subjugate, we should make fear, we should make wish they did not think the way they did.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:54
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Who What Now posted:These are the people Steinroker wants us to ally with. Yeah, they are representative of 150 million people without an exception, including those who voted for Obama.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:54
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Lightning Knight posted:Uh. I don't think Becoming Joe Biden is going to be sufficient, and frankly further still I don't want to be ruled by white straight men forever. gently caress off then. Seriously what is this? Go emmigrate to china and whinge that a gay spic isnt the party boss.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:54
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Deified Data posted:Wait. This won't work since large chunks of minorities are conservative.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:56
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Crowsbeak posted:For the most part I agree, but the people who are already part of the KKK, Nazis and others. We should subjugate, we should make fear, we should make wish they did not think the way they did. But instead the current strategy is to convince the people who are not part of those groups that they are, in fact, just as bad, and might as well join them because we won't be arsed to acknowledge any difference.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:56
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Deified Data posted:Trump, as stunted as he is, isn't evil. *Spent 50 years womanizing and also trying to keep The Blacks out of his housing developments, dismissed his victims as political pawns, gold-diggers, and liars when they finally stepped forward in a desperate bid to not let him lead their country* "not evil"
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Nov 9, 2016 18:56
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paranoid randroid posted:i predicted a while ago that rudatron would go hard reactionary, and im glad to see him making good progress along that path Let me tell you a story. A long time ago, I lived in a community that was minority white. There was an altercation, we were the targets, and then we left. It wasn't that great of an experience. But I have zero resentment for the people living there. Do you know why? Because I had lived there. Half of the infrastructure was broken, and the other half would have been better off broken. There was no future, and people without a future engage in destructive joys. Alcoholism. Vandalism. Fighting. Drugs. I knew exactly why they did what they did, because we had felt the same thing. Guess what? The exact same phenomenon is happening to people left behind by globalization, by free trade deals. You mock them, you disrespect them, call them irredeemable - do you honestly expect them not to be 'broken'? Poverty doesn't just affect the outside, the external conditions. It kills you, inside. You have nothing but contempt for them, and they are smart enough to detect that. You say they are not worth saving, that they condemn themselves - what other options do they have? Democrats have kept telling them that nothing will change, those jobs aren't coming back. Why should they not hate you? You're so far up your own rear end in a top hat, that you lost the unlosable election to the unsupportable candidate. Everyone, across races, nations, genders and creeds, will love each other. It will happen. It will happen in spite of you, not because of you.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:56
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Deified Data posted:The only shred of comfort I have right now is that not all people who voted for Trump are evil. Not all Republicans in congress are evil. Trump, as stunted as he is, isn't evil. All of these people are terribly misguided and getting worse on the high of victory, but for the most part, most of them don't want to see the world burn. There's something in the world that most of them want to protect, and even if it's not the same as mine, they surely recognize that bathing the world in nuclear hellfire won't protect whatever that is. This does not mean I empathize with them or that I'm not incredibly disappointed in them. All it means is that I can step out the door and expect to encounter more or less the same world that existed before Trump won. I have to believe this if I want to continue being a member of society. Yeah, it really is as simple as that. In fact, you could probably sum up all the hopes & dreams of the modern Republican party in, say, about 14 words.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:57
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jwang posted:I'm glad marijuana's been legalized. We're going to need a lot of it in the coming months to stay calm. i wish people would stop making this joke. pot's still illegal at the federal level and lol if you think pence will ignore people "legalizing" it like obama did
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Nov 9, 2016 18:57
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nimh posted:gently caress off then. Seriously what is this? Go emmigrate to china and whinge that a gay spic isnt the party boss. Trump 2016!
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Nov 9, 2016 18:57
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