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Finished Gardens of the Moon, liked it, ending did feel rushed and inorganic. The demon lord makes sense, secret weapon to destroy Rake or the tyrant, but what is a demon in this universe? I started Deadhouse Gates, just onto to chapter five, and when will loving Kalam do something cool already? I don't even know if assassins in Malazan are the sneaky backstab kind, the Ninja-warrior kind or the dress up as a waiter and poison your food kind?
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Nov 6, 2016 20:09
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Monocled Falcon posted:I started Deadhouse Gates, just onto to chapter five, and when will loving Kalam do something cool already? I don't even know if assassins in Malazan are the sneaky backstab kind, the Ninja-warrior kind or the dress up as a waiter and poison your food kind? You will have your answer fairly soon. Then later you will have the same answer again.... just more emphatically.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:27
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Why do they need to be one or the other? As for the other point, just read on and find out.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:50
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Kalam's definitely the ninja-warrior kind. Dude is loving big. Not to say he's bad at sneaking or backstabbing, mind you. Also one of my favorite characters in the whole series is the big thief in ICE's books who talks about sneaking around but then just smashes his way in everywhere.
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Nov 6, 2016 21:48
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Demons are basically any kind of creature from another world or warren that people in the Malazan world haven't given a proper name. So mysterious creatures that are totally different from each other just get called demons.
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Nov 7, 2016 03:00
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Demons are also several of the best characters. Pearl has some of the briefest but best dialog in the whole series.
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Nov 7, 2016 05:54
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Greyfrog's great too.
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Nov 7, 2016 08:44
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The Ninth Layer posted:Whole series spoiler: Probably the plot was that CG gets Mosag to unite the Edur and Letheras, takes that force across the wastes to free himself. Mosag was hungry for that power and presumably would have handled it better. Instead Rhulad goes mad with torment and focuses his resources on finding a champion strong enough to kill him for good. I thought the plan was for CG to use Rhulad's quest for champions to lure Karsa to pick up the sword. Thus the plan first revealed like nine books prior comes to a head when Karsa kills Rhulad and they get transported to the island together, at which point the CG brushes aside Rhulad and tell Karsa something like "This has been a long time coming Karsa my chosen champion, pick up the sword and become the king badass."
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Nov 7, 2016 09:01
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I think that was just CG thinking on the fly because he had a super pissed off Karsa in his face. Like 'Oh poo poo dont hurt me I planned this all for you!' in some attempt to appeal to Karsas ego or something.
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Nov 7, 2016 11:28
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Spermy Smurf posted:I think that was just CG thinking on the fly because he had a super pissed off Karsa in his face. Like 'Oh poo poo dont hurt me I planned this all for you!' in some attempt to appeal to Karsas ego or something.
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Nov 7, 2016 13:06
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The Malazan Book of the Fallen > Even the gods just wing it
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Nov 7, 2016 13:14
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Proof that Erikson is a maniac:Deadhouse Gates posted:He held a wedge of emrag cactus...unmindful of the envenomed spikes House of Chains posted:They were said to hold Emulor, a poison rendered from a certain cactus Neither the poison or the cactus are mentioned anywhere else.
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Nov 8, 2016 11:28
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Neither the poison or the cactus are mentioned anywhere else. Not quite true. Deadhouse Gates again posted:Servant has prepared your chambers. And broths of healing herbs, roots, potions and elixirs. White Paralt, emulor, tralb-- And both are mentioned in the Deadhouse Gates Glossary. Deadhouse Gates Glossary posted:emrag: an edible cactus favored by Trell
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Nov 8, 2016 16:48
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I loving checked. Admittedly it was like 4:30 in the morning. Still, nice callback, impressive attention to detail.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:58
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In the name of content-posts, post-House of Chains thoughts: It feels like there's been a significant shift in writing style here, in how Erikkson (gently caress I have no idea how to spell this name) handles the characters and the mysteries in his setting. HoC seems a lot more honest about how it handles the mysteries in its plot. These mysteries are introduced as something that is unknown by the characters in the world, whereas Gardens or Memories just never bothered explaining anything, c.f. Onrack talking about how Kellanved claimed the First Throne in somewhat unknown circumstances, vs Tool saying that Kellanved took the First Throne. The former is a mystery, the latter is only half the bloody story - there's no way for the reader to tell if Tool is not giving detail because it's common knowledge, or because Tool doesn't know. The handling of these mysteries also feels weirdly erratic. It's immediately clear that Keeper is either Urko or Crust - his exact identity is left ambiguous, Fid tells us that Urko is absurdly strong, but Toc t.Y remarks on Crust's legendary anger, so Keeper could be either (and frankly, I hope the books don't give us an answer one or t'other, it's a nice ambiguity) but when it comes to Traveller it's pretty clear he's Dessembrae from the outset but then we have two or three different scenes to drive this point home. Then the mysterious figure who saves Kalam is, running with the theme of In terms of character - S.K.E. seems to have massively reined himself in. Chains is by far the funniest of the books in the series by far, but the humour feels a lot more natural and gentle than in the previous books, with none of the inapproproate slapstick of Lady Envy or Baucheleain and chums from Memories (don't get me wrong, Bauchelain is hilarious, but the adventures of the necromantic Chuckle-Brothers never sat well alongside the more serioues parts of MoI). A lot of MoI felt like it was "banter" in the sense of a public schoolboy, but the reparte in Chains feels much more jovial - it also had the only two parts of the series where I genuinely laughed out loud (the scorpion called Clawmaster, and Lastari (Lostara? gently caress, for an anthropologist he missed a trick by making his loving names make some sort of loving sense) ironically echoing Karsa's line about too many words) My predictions for this book were: Karsa is Toblakai - I meant this as "he is of the race Toblakai" rather than "he is the bloke called Toblakai", but if Erik' can base multiple characters around linguistic trickery, then I think I can use this grammatical inconsistency as a win. gently caress Bithinal. Double gently caress Korobolo, I hope he gets his just deserts (desserts, get it? Whirlwind jokes!) I thought that Icarium fragmented K.E. - seems he destryoed an Azath house. So I was wrong there. I really hope that the sea of Raraku drained into K.E. and caused the flooding of the nascent. I don't think the timelines match up, but it would be nicely elegant. Trull owns, Onrack owns. Greyfrog owns. Greyfrowns. Kilava caused the creation of the Whirlwind. Her capacity for up-loving appears contagious. loving kilava. Gamet went out like a boss  Thyrlann = Tellan = Thyr - there;s trickery here. It would work better if he gave us a pronounciation guide (Thry vs Tyr, T'Lan is maybe further linguisticall from Tlan) There's a certain irony to Karsa being a corrupted form of a shield anvil, collecting souls of those he kills. The Eres' - the missing link, the neanderthal, has it's own handling of magic. gently caress I hope this is something that he develops in later books. Strom Cuzewon fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 01:01
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I still think the first part of House of Chains, with Karsa being a pig-ignorant force of nature, is the funniest the series gets.
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Nov 9, 2016 02:02
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Your spoiler tag is broken.
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Nov 9, 2016 03:25
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Well, turns out Mallick Rel becomes emperor in real life too.
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Nov 9, 2016 08:03
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snoremac posted:I still think the first part of House of Chains, with Karsa being a pig-ignorant force of nature, is the funniest the series gets. Apparently some people don't like him?
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Nov 9, 2016 14:52
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Some people understandably find that section uncomfortable because it's from the perspective of a rapist and seeming child-murderer. I haven't seen any Karsa dislike outside of that section personally. In terms of comedy, I think Erikson's mines a lot of it out of the sheer audaciousness and arrogance of Karsa's behaviour and worldview. Like when he bashes a shark to retrieve a corpse because it doesn't belong to the shark.
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Nov 9, 2016 15:44
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Are those really children though? Because too Karsa, a Teblor, the humans are much smaller and weaker which is why he calls them children. I am pretty sure it was inferred that they weren't children but thats what Karsa called them.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:33
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He does kill a bunch of Teblor children too.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:37
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Ulio posted:Are those really children though? Because too Karsa, a Teblor, the humans are much smaller and weaker which is why he calls them children. I am pretty sure it was inferred that they weren't children but thats what Karsa called them. They're not children but that's deliberately left unclear for a while. When he vows to murder a thousand children it's not apparent what he means so it's pretty shocking. snoremac fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 21:45
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Yeah, regarding the erratic nature of Erikson's humor - the next book is really weird about it and. I still intensely dislike anything dealing with Ublala - the slapstick will get so much worse in MT.Strom Cuzewon posted:Apparently some people don't like him? He's still intended to start off as a complete dickhead though and book 1 of HoC accomplishes that fantastically. Not sure I find it too funny, though. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 21:49
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zeal posted:Well, turns out Mallick Rel becomes emperor in real life too. I'm kinda sympathetic towards the Forkrul Assail's objectives in TCG right now.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:50
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snoremac posted:I'm kinda sympathetic towards the Forkrul Assail's objectives in TCG right now. We can only hope they go full Forkrul Assail by killing their god.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:59
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snoremac posted:I'm kinda sympathetic towards the Forkrul Assail's objectives in TCG right now. #ImWithHood
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Nov 10, 2016 06:47
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I'm kinda limping along at this point. I'm 24% through TCG and all I can think is "we're spending this much time on Setoc? On Gruntle's pursuit of the leopard lady who appeared in one scene in TtH? Where are Ganoes, Karsa, Cutter and Aspalar?" I'd add Yan Tovis to the disappointment list but that's starting to feel important. But I was seriously burning through the books and now I might just read a few pages before bed. Maybe it's just overkill, I don't know. I've never read a 10 book series before. Malazan stuff is good, Cotillion stuff is good, I like the Badelle stuff too.
snoremac fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 12:35
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snoremac posted:Where are Ganoes, Karsa, Cutter and Aspalar?" 
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Nov 14, 2016 14:29
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snoremac posted:I'm kinda limping along at this point. I'm 24% through TCG and all I can think is "we're spending this much time on Setoc? On Gruntle's pursuit of the leopard lady who appeared in one scene in TtH? Where are Ganoes, Karsa, Cutter and Aspalar?" I'd add Yan Tovis to the disappointment list but that's starting to feel important. But I was seriously burning through the books and now I might just read a few pages before bed. Maybe it's just overkill, I don't know. I've never read a 10 book series before. Malazan stuff is good, Cotillion stuff is good, I like the Badelle stuff too.
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Nov 14, 2016 17:09
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I'm getting a real Goofus and Gallant vibe from Midnight Tides Gallant writes about the unrelenting horror of a coin clad corpse coming back to life Goofus describes a zombie thief implanting a sea urchin into her vagina I least I see why people compare Bakker to Erikson.
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Nov 14, 2016 18:18
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I finally finished Return of the Crimson Guard. ICE is no Eriksson for sure but I'm glad to know more about the Malazan World. My favorite moments include Urko doing a sleeper hold on a Holy Diver. Kallor going I'm here to kill bitches only to go Beam Me Up next. The siege of Li Heng and Jumpy in general. I liked the theme of the old rendered forgotten and ridiculed too. Unto Stonewielder.
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Nov 16, 2016 04:47
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zeal posted:#ImWithHood Just finished Bonehunters for the second time (the furthest I've got in the series before is the book after this) and there's a section towards the end about the nature of truth that really seemed very timely and it's pretty much all about #MMGA. Also Laseen's new Secretary of Defence and Chief of Staff  I like Bonehunters, it's obviously not "filler" by any stetch of the imagination, but it really felt like a bridge between part 1 and part 2 of a series. Structurally I thought it was quite different from the other books as the most climactic episode occurs fairly early on and from there it's a series "smaller" convergences at regular intervals through to the end. Then again "smaller" by Erikson's standard is still pretty drat epic. Edit: Here's the quote that stood out to me, it was in the reread: quote:You appear to hold to the childish notion that some truths are intransigent and undeniable. Alas, the adult world is never so simple. All truths are malleable. Subject, by necessity, to revision. Have you not yet observed, Tavore, that in the minds of the people in this empire, truth is without relevance? It has lost its power. It no longer effects change, and indeed, the very will of the people born of fear and ignorance, granted the very will, as I said, can in turn revise those truths, can transform, if you like, the lies of convenience into faith, and that faith in turn is not open to challenge. Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 11:51
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I've just finished Midnight Tides and I am bashing my head against these family trees. Mother Dark has three children: Darist, Anomander Rake and Silchas Ruin. That's easy. She also, according to Osserc, had some previous, and unknown, children. That's easy too. Scabandari Bloodeye, Father Shadow allegedly had three daughters: Menandore, Sister Dawn Sukul Ankhadu, Dapple Sheltatha Lore, Sister Dusk. Menandore's true father is Brother Light, trapped in the Moon (Sorry/Apsalar calls him Grallin way back in book one) But from Udinaas' visions we see that Menandore AND Dapple have the same father - Osserc. Who very much is NOT trapped in the moon. And is described as "First Son of Light and Dark" which is somehow a) different from shadow, and b)he's not actually a son of Mother Dark. (I did also briefly think that Mother Dark = Tiam, but I think that was just me getting mixed up by "blood of Tiam" (as Rake and half the Andii drank her blood) and "Mother Tiam") I also can't make the timeline fit: Midnight Tides starts in 1159, (4 years before the Fall of Pale) with Withal washing up after the Meckros city is smashed up by icebergs (seemingly the same icebergs that Pannion summons in 1164) yet Feather Witch makes reference to the Hold of the Beast finding new masters (Fandaray and the other one) AND to Path-Shaper having "fevers in his fell blood", which can only be K'Rull and the infected warrens in MoI, which both take place in 1164. Am I missing something here? I will say though, it's refreshing to have a continent-wide metaphysical cock-up that wasn't directly Kilava's fault, and at least Mael sticks around to actual fix it. Although the creation of the soletaken that lead to the fall of the first empire and creation of the Jheck seems a direct result of the Imass abandoning the Beast Hold in favour of Tellan, so maybe we can blame her for this too.
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Nov 17, 2016 18:47
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Regarding family trees: It's mythologized by now, and you get a lot of info from characters who weren't around when poo poo went down. Also some people have a habit of calling themselves brother/sister while not actually being brother/sister. Good luck. 
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Nov 17, 2016 19:59
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Knobb Manwich posted:Regarding family trees: It's mythologized by now, and you get a lot of info from characters who weren't around when poo poo went down. Also some people have a habit of calling themselves brother/sister while not actually being brother/sister. Also some of the characters either lie or wrong or are wrong and trying to lie at the same time.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:30
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I got a couple of dozen pages into Forge of Darkness and had to reassess everything I thought I knew about the mythic stuff.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:54
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Am I missing something here? There are timeline issues. Erikson has acknowledged they exist and stated that some dates are just flat-out impossible/wrong, but doesn't seem bothered by them or intend on fixing them or if they'd even be possible to fix. Instead he just stopped putting them in the chapter quotes halfway through the series. Just assume quoted dates are part of an unreliable historical document. One thing I've noticed on my current readthrough is that despite how detailed some aspects of the books are, he doesn't really bother that much with timing, logistics and distances or keeping everything consistent with the flow of the narrative within books either. Armies cross entire continents, while individuals in those armies have interactions or side-stories that feel like they would have taken days at most etc. He's just pretty fast an lose with all that. It's bit jarring at times because the books are so dense and have so much detail, that it's easy to assume that they'd also be meticulous in terms of timekeeping etc. I can imagine that makes them a difficult read for some people who obsess over that kind of stuff. Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 21:11
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I've always felt that a big number of timeline issues could be explained by the theory that the Malazan World is a dreamworld similar to the Mhybe from MoI. Burn's dream, presumably. (If you wanted a diegetic explanation, that is. 'Erikson just doesn't worry about timelines' is equally good as an answer) Though it doesn't explain how Dessembrae was at the Chaining. That never really made sense to me. cptn_dr fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 22:42
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^^^^Thank christ, thought i was losing my marbles. I was happy to let the distances wash over me (when has logistics ever mattered in fantasy?) but Erikson seems exactly the sort of guy who'd hide little hints and details in dates, and I could not make them line up. Ynglaur posted:Also some of the characters either lie or wrong or are wrong and trying to lie at the same time. I'm working on the assumption that everyone is a loving moron unless their name is Ben. And even he messed up with Hairlock.
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Nov 17, 2016 22:45
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