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negromancer posted:Please name something, a policy, a platform plank, that's both plausible and better than what Clinton offered.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:04
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" This except I know maybe one or two. It's been a strange 24 hours.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:06
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Guy Goodbody posted:Yeah, if you try to cast American politics as "whites vs. everyone else," you don't get to be mad when white people vote like they believe you Martha Stewart Undying posted:White people cast American politics as "whites vs everyone else," do you genuinely believe minorities take it upon ourselves to be the aggrieved party for shits and giggles? Guy Goodbody's disingenuous bullshit really needs to be zeroed in on here. He is not the first person to pull this screed. Who, PRECISELY, is framing this as "whites vs. everyone else"? Can someone remind me when on the campaign trail Hillary called for reparations, or full throatedly defended BLM from right wing pundits calling for BLM to be labelled a terrorist organization, or really did anything but give token support for the causes of African Americans? Please, provide me with links of mainstream Democrats quoting the RADICAL TUMBLR SCREEDS the Democrats are supposedly echoing in the media. When did this happen?
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Nov 9, 2016 21:05
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Blaming the people who voted for Trump is simply acknowledging how elections work. You can't win an election unless people vote for you.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:06
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Trabisnikof posted:Really? Under any condition? Family is something that people hold sacrosanct and one of if not the most important things to live for. That people can and do ostracize people when that person does something awful; making that an expectation is ridiculous.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:05
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Guy Goodbody posted:Yeah, if you try to cast American politics as "whites vs. everyone else," you don't get to be mad when white people vote like they believe you The only message that seems to resonate with white people is racism and misogyny, so...how the gently caress is that supposed to work?
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Nov 9, 2016 21:06
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PKJC posted:There is nothing unreasonable about ostracizing bigots, friend. Some people are dependent on family and there shouldn't be expectations on them to chew off their own leg or anything, but it's actually cool and good to cut bad people out of your life regardless of blood relation where it's possible to do so. Yeah, Scientologists say the same thing, and they seem pretty on the ball.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:07
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" PoC have been living with this disconnection forever. I have a ton of white friends, all of them are pretty chill people. And yet, as a whole, whites loving suck. It's not that hard to hold these two things in your head at once!
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Nov 9, 2016 21:07
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Main Paineframe posted:On the other hand, most of the time when someone comes down this road it's just an excuse for a white leftist to abandon race issues altogether and focus exclusively on the economic aspect while ignoring racial issues entirely because they, naively lacking a full understanding of racism, assume that the rising tide will necessarily lift non-white boats along with the white boats. Even Bernie had to struggle with that to some degree, and his supporters certainly made a point of obnoxiously demonizing minorities for "voting against their own interests" by supporting Hillary (though many of those same supporters are now accusing Hillary supporters of being "elitists" who look down on white people). yeah dont get me wrong, i have no illusions that this kind of race-conscious class solidarity thing would be a tremendously difficult tightrope to walk. but honestly, watching the discourse over the past year ive sort of been toying with the notion that if the left is going to survive in America, and expand, it really needs to formulate its own form of socialism distinct from European conceptions. i am, unfortunately, not terribly well versed in Marxist theory, and i am aware this smacks of American Exceptionalism, but traditional Marxism seems a poor fit for American constructions of society.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:06
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Berious posted:Only whiny pissbabies get that mad at politics anyway I personally think it is kind of lovely to call minorities dealing with racism and a pro-racist president "whiny pissbabies" but I'm sure you'll claim you were totally talking about something else.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:07
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" I'm the same way. I think I know one guy who supported Trump and he didn't want to admit it (but obviously did).
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Nov 9, 2016 21:07
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" My entire office supported Trump, except for me, maybe the other guy my age, and probably the Russian dude who hates Putin. They brought in a celebratory cake and donuts today, and they're psyched af that they stopped that Bad Ol' Corrupt Hillary from destroying the universe.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:07
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It's not about caring about their feelings, it's about attempting to fix the problem that led to a Trump presidency. Unless you think fixing that problem is shaming white people with misplaced feelings of victimization, in which case by all means.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:08
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PKJC posted:I'm glad electing a fascist with a VP who is virulently anti-LGBT is a joke to you, good for you. Thanks, I thought for a second I had accidentally posted in the No Jokes Zone.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:08
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Torpor posted:Family is something that people hold sacrosanct and one of if not the most important things to live for. That people can and do ostracize people when that person does something awful; making that an expectation is ridiculous. Yet most queer people have to make that sacrifice every goddamn day, sorry its too hard to cut off your racist uncle that believes we should hang Obama from a tree. Guy Goodbody posted:Yeah, Scientologists say the same thing, and they seem pretty on the ball. What a lovely false equivalence and you know it.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:08
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:The gently caress are you supposed to do when the only message that seems to resonate are "those dirty brown people took your jerbs!!"?? Maybe a message like "Those dirty fat cats took your jobs!" or "I will give you back your jobs!"? I dunno, I'm not a political expert
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Nov 9, 2016 21:08
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Also there's the bit of me that's like "huh, Trump really did have the biggest and hugest support and totally crushed it by being the best despite all the poo poo saying he couldn't possibly win, so maybe I'm just loving insane and the world actually works that way and all the other ways he says."
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Nov 9, 2016 21:08
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I'm skeptical that there are tons of Obama voters that went Trump especially when he didn't get Romney level of popular support. It seems more likely that Obama voters in those districts just didn't show up while the Trump guys did. It's more of the absurd "how can this country be racists, we elected Obama TWICE" said by people that voted for McCaine and Romney.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:10
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" I'm in the same boat, except I know a lot of Trump supporters. I look at these people and just don't understand literally anything about them, except this: Martha Stewart Undying posted:And yet, as a whole, whites loving suck. It's not that hard to hold these two things in your head at once!
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Nov 9, 2016 21:09
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Unzip and Attack posted:They don't care. He made their team win so nothing short of global disaster will phase his support on the Right. I'm just hoping the electorate knowingly voted a buffoon into the Oval Office in a fit of rage.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:10
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Captain Oblivious posted:Guy Goodbody's disingenuous bullshit really needs to be zeroed in on here. He is not the first person to pull this screed. Who, PRECISELY, is framing this as "whites vs. everyone else"? Can someone remind me when on the campaign trail Hillary called for reparations, or full throatedly defended BLM from right wing pundits calling for BLM to be labelled a terrorist organization, or really did anything but give token support for the causes of African Americans? I'm not gonna go back through the USPOL threads to dig up any of the tons of "gently caress white people" posts.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:10
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Guy Goodbody posted:Yeah, Scientologists say the same thing, and they seem pretty on the ball. I'm glad that not wanting to interact with unrepentant racists and thinking that there being social consequences for their terribleness makes me proximate to a cult member now, good post friendo.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:09
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What's most entertaining about this "Hillary ignored the working class whites" is that Trump won white people on every socioeconomic level. That means it was a ton of racist loving white people that lied openly about supporting Clinton and got in that voting booth and voted to keep the white boot on the neck of everyone else.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:09
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" 
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Nov 9, 2016 21:11
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Guy Goodbody posted:Maybe a message like "Those dirty fat cats took your jobs!" or "I will give you back your jobs!"? I dunno, I'm not a political expert Okay. They like that, but the other guy is more than promising to give them back their jobs, he's also promising to deport mexicans. They like that more. How do you compete?
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Nov 9, 2016 21:10
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To all the "lol but he can't actually deport anybody so who cares?" people, here are some cool things that will probably happen under a Trump presidency & conservative Congress/SCOTUS: 1. Obamacare repeal 2. Roe v. Wade overturned 3. Obergefell v. Hodges overturned 4. Dodd-Frank repeal 5. CFPB dismantled 6. FCC Chair replaced with a industry talking head + rollback of net neutrality 7. Unrestricted backdoor encryption access for law enforcement + federal agencies 8. Clean Power Plan roll back + EPA being gutted 9. Possibly gutting the FDA and rolling back food health regulations (he put this on his website but then later deleted it  )
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Nov 9, 2016 21:11
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trash person posted:It's not about caring about their feelings, it's about attempting to fix the problem that led to a Trump presidency. Lmao bro. Repeat after me: Democrats will not have any power in the United States government until at least 2024, Do you remember the Bush Administration? What do you think the Trump Administration will do in eight years? No filibuster this time. Control of the SC again. By the time we ge control again the damage will be done.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:10
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trash person posted:It's not about caring about their feelings, it's about attempting to fix the problem that led to a Trump presidency. I think we can simultaneously hold in our heads the ideas that A) We need to reach out more to blue collar workers and that B) America is ALSO racist as hell, and that we can condemn Trump's voters as legitimately terrible people who have actual agency. C) The media's irresponsibility and legitimization of Trump plays into B. All of these things are simultaneously true to one degree or another.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:11
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negromancer posted:What's most entertaining about this "Hillary ignored the working class whites" is that Trump won white people on every socioeconomic level.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:11
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Guy Goodbody posted:Maybe a message like "Those dirty fat cats took your jobs!" or "I will give you back your jobs!"? I dunno, I'm not a political expert So, lying to them, I guess? Those jobs aren't fuckin' coming back.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:12
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FactsAreUseless posted:Also there's the bit of me that's like "huh, Trump really did have the biggest and hugest support and totally crushed it by being the best despite all the poo poo saying he couldn't possibly win, so maybe I'm just loving insane and the world actually works that way and all the other ways he says." If it's consolation, he's probably going to be miserable once he actually has the job.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:11
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negromancer posted:What a lovely false equivalence and you know it. Telling people to cut their family members out of their lives if they disagree politically is a terrible, lovely thing to do. And all it does is make political polarization worse.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:12
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Torpor posted:Family is something that people hold sacrosanct and one of if not the most important things to live for. That people can and do ostracize people when that person does something awful; making that an expectation is ridiculous. One thing I've done instead of cutting family off has been to point out how terrified I am of losing healthcare, and point out that by supporting conservatives and conservative policies, that are actively harming me. I can't say it's actually doing any good, but it's certainly one way I'm trying to get my racist family to see things from another perspective.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:11
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm not gonna go back through the USPOL threads to dig up any of the tons of "gently caress white people" posts. Do you comprehend that internet posters do not represent political party discourse? Do you comprehend that SomethingAwful does not represent the discourse of society at large? Again, who are the Democrats framing this as white people versus everyone else? Name politicians and public figures.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:12
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So I did a little bit of science research this afternoon, turns out, we're all gonna die. Or at least all our children will! There's very little we can do to stop it! Less than a century, most of mankind will be extinct With competent energy policy maybe that could be slowed a little and buy a little more time. But, uh, nope. We're all dead. My son is going to die of either starvation, dehydration, or disease.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:13
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Sydin posted:To all the "lol but he can't actually deport anybody so who cares?" people, here are some cool things that will probably happen under a Trump presidency & conservative Congress/SCOTUS: Also, he can't deport people why? I mean, as a legal permanent resident you can be deported right now for a felony. What precisely is stopping a Republican party that literally controls all three branches of government legislating to make it legal to deport you for jaywalking? If the whole shebang is Republican run there is nothing doing them from whatever they want because they own all the theoretical checks and balances.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:12
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FactsAreUseless posted:Also there's the bit of me that's like "huh, Trump really did have the biggest and hugest support and totally crushed it by being the best despite all the poo poo saying he couldn't possibly win, so maybe I'm just loving insane and the world actually works that way and all the other ways he says." Yeah. This is my take away. gently caress truth, lie like a motherfucker until enough people believe you. That's real truth.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:12
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Sydin posted:To all the "lol but he can't actually deport anybody so who cares?" people, here are some cool things that will probably happen under a Trump presidency & conservative Congress/SCOTUS: I have literally zero faith anyone who would overturn OvH wouldn't do the same for Lawrence. It's a states rights issue after all 
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Nov 9, 2016 21:13
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FactsAreUseless posted:Also there's the bit of me that's like "huh, Trump really did have the biggest and hugest support and totally crushed it by being the best despite all the poo poo saying he couldn't possibly win, so maybe I'm just loving insane and the world actually works that way and all the other ways he says." He didn't totally crush it, is the thing. He lost the popular vote, like barely, which is practically a 50/50 split. By that indicator, this country is still volatile af and we're just gonna see another 4 years of mass shootings and police brutality. Only this time, instead of being sad when cops execute a dude in the streets or pepper spray the poo poo out of nonviolent protesters, the POTUS will call a press conference to tell us all "Good! That thug got what he deserved!"
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Nov 9, 2016 21:14
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Nov 9, 2016 21:14
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