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Kurr de la Cruz posted:So, lying to them, I guess? Those jobs aren't fuckin' coming back. If a political party can't even pretend that their policies will result in people getting good jobs, then yeah, that party deserves to lose.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:13
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Sydin posted:To all the "lol but he can't actually deport anybody so who cares?" people, here are some cool things that will probably happen under a Trump presidency & conservative Congress/SCOTUS: Read this list duders. This is what white people voted for. And this is just the tip of the iceberg - literally since he also won't fight global warming. Discussions of how to make the Dems competitive again are academic because there won't be anything left to save when the Republicans are done.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:13
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Arkane posted:How does GW Bush relate to my post? The only thing that applies is domestic surveillance, which Obama expanded massively. You seem to be forgetting things like AT&T room 641a from the Bush era. Really one of the major failings of Obama is that he kept all the horrors Bush started going. Trump will in all likelihood do the same, and they will get to keep refining their work.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:14
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" are you in a college town
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Nov 9, 2016 21:14
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Lightning Knight posted:Lmao bro. We're due for a recession. Red govt in the face of recession simply isn't tolerable, no matter how racist you are. Dems will win at least two branches in 2020.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" I'm a white dude living in California surrounded by a bunch of other white dudes in California and we all voted for Hillary but most of my family is white trash from the south west side of Chicago and p.much all of them are racist fucks who voted for Trump. Having to experience both sides of the coin in real time is pretty surreal. God Thanksgiving/Christmas is going to suck this year.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:14
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Guy Goodbody posted:Telling people to cut their family members out of their lives if they disagree politically is a terrible, lovely thing to do. And all it does is make political polarization worse. Some people consider supporting racism/sexism to be more than just a political disagreement. Like are all Americans fully human is a slightly more fundamental question than marginal tax rates.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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Captain Oblivious posted:Do you comprehend that internet posters do not represent political party discourse? Do you comprehend that SomethingAwful does not represent the discourse of society at large? But we can devote large swathes of time to complaining about the alt-right and berniebros? Do things only exist if you personally think they're important? I think it's perfectly valid to point out these damaging and ultimately useless parts of the discourse.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:14
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PupsOfWar posted:are you in a college town
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's extremely bizarre to be a non-Trump-voting white person right now, in a way that I don't fully know how to articulate. I live in a red state and I look around me and literally not one person that I know, white or not, supported Trump. I'm extremely disconnected from what is, statistically, my race. It's really weird to be like "huh, so is this just like... what white people do now?" In the immediate sense, I'm in New Orleans...and all of my friends here (both white & PoC) are as anti-Trump as they come. "Back home" (the Baton Rouge area), it's the exact opposite.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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Guy Goodbody posted:Telling people to cut their family members out of their lives if they disagree politically is a terrible, lovely thing to do. And all it does is make political polarization worse. We're discussing bigotry here, which wouldn't necessarily be the same as just a difference of political opinion. Turns out though one of the candidates was super open about being a huge bigot, on top of a rapist, and ~60mil people said yeah okay that sounds good and correct. So in this case disagreeing politically lines up p deece with how you fall on bigotry okay vs not okay.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:16
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:PoC have been living with this disconnection forever. I have a ton of white friends, all of them are pretty chill people. And yet, as a whole, whites loving suck. It's not that hard to hold these two things in your head at once! Basically this. Literally all of the friends I have in my profession are white, and yet over half of them statistically would be better off vanishing from the earth, as it would make the world a much better place for everyone else. FactsAreUseless posted:I do find it extremely interesting that years and years of efforts to make racism not okay resulted in a situation where open racism wasn't okay, but rather than stop being racist people just started to feel like they were being prevented from expressing themselves by powerful forces beyond their control. It makes me wonder what can possibly be done to address racism. Yep. A lot of people who are hilariously racist voted for Obama, actually. Just like Halle Berry's last husband was SUPER racist, and yet married a black woman. Like, there are no mile markers that once you pass this, you're incapable of being a racist twat, and for apparently most white people, when the direct offer of restoring full on white supremacy is on the table, nothing else matters, not even who's offering it.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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Guy Goodbody posted:Telling people to cut their family members out of their lives if they disagree politically is a terrible, lovely thing to do. And all it does is make political polarization worse. Euphemizing "believes minorities are subhuman" as "disagree politically" is on my d&d post-election troll bingo. Now I just need a "the democrats are the real racists  " and I will becoming idiot king.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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FactsAreUseless posted:Also there's the bit of me that's like "huh, Trump really did have the biggest and hugest support and totally crushed it by being the best despite all the poo poo saying he couldn't possibly win, so maybe I'm just loving insane and the world actually works that way and all the other ways he says." The biggest frustration for me is this: In my mind, half (as a low-end estimate) of what Trump says is just flat out a lie, or impossible, or both. Lots of people smarter than me can seemingly confirm it (economists, etc). That alone, the total willful ignorance of facts, and not caring at all whether he can back up what he says, seems to me like a drat good reason to not vote for him. Am I wrong though? Is it me? Is the wool over my eyes? How the hell am I supposed to know?
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Nov 9, 2016 21:16
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Fansy posted:We're due for a recession. Red govt in the face of recession simply isn't tolerable, no matter how racist you are. Nah. They'll blame Obama and it'll work because they're white Republicans, they get legitimacy by default. Democrats are also out of candidates. The whole party is going down in flames. You dipshits are so worried about white peoples' feelings. They just voted to gut the country.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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negromancer posted:Basically this. Well, if that's not just straight up hateful then I don't know what is. Really, dude.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:16
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Fansy posted:We're due for a recession. Red govt in the face of recession simply isn't tolerable, no matter how racist you are. Who are they going to run? In 2004 the economy was hosed, America was in a lovely war, the Republican president was a dumb idiot. Democrats thought, "things are so bad, we can run a cardboard cutout and still win!" Didn't work out that way
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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z0glin Warchief posted:You're overthinking this. You don't need to convince them to vote for your whole package deal of a million different policies, you just need them to vote for you. Pick some specific issues they care about and offer some solutions. Go to white middle America and tell them how much you care about the heroin epidemic and what your plan is to fix it for their community. Tell them about your plan to bring jobs to the area through this great new training program you're going to pay for by taxing Wall Street. Be sincere about these things, and make them believe you care about them. Because you do care about them. The problem is that those promises are impossible promises. There is no way to bring back jobs to all of rural America. It's possible to bring some jobs to some areas, but not nearly enough to help even a quarter of rural America or rural Americans. That's why everyone who comes to talk to rural America about their problems just offers up vague platitudes, not real policy proposals - these regions have been ruined by structural economic changes that can never be undone or reversed, and actively refuse the few things that can be done to help them, so the only way to appeal to them is to be a good liar. And for that matter, some of these issues simply can't be spoken to on a national level. For example, a lot of these communities have drug problems - but so do many black communities, and the reason why our nation has such awful drug policy is in fact because it's widely considered to be a predominantly black problem. I agree that the Dems absolutely need to build local and state-level infrastructure, though. They've let their roots wilt and focused too much on the national stage. FactsAreUseless posted:Also there's the bit of me that's like "huh, Trump really did have the biggest and hugest support and totally crushed it by being the best despite all the poo poo saying he couldn't possibly win, so maybe I'm just loving insane and the world actually works that way and all the other ways he says." I've been thinking for a couple of years now that much of what's considered common knowledge about elections is just rules made up by pundits, and that the impact of things like scandals is actually a lot smaller than the conventional wisdom thinks. As long as the candidate doesn't let the pundits pressure them into resigning in shame, it only really pushes things a couple percent one way or another. I don't think that's a unique-to-Trump thing. I think he's an excellent campaigner who put his con artist skills to good use and benefited enormously from the fact that most of the "rules" he broke were things that voters actually didn't give a poo poo about, which the GOP had been noticing for some years now (remember when they did a government shutdown over nothing and got away with it?) but which they didn't have the stones to really go all-in on.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:17
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DrNutt posted:One thing I've done instead of cutting family off has been to point out how terrified I am of losing healthcare, and point out that by supporting conservatives and conservative policies, that are actively harming me. I can't say it's actually doing any good, but it's certainly one way I'm trying to get my racist family to see things from another perspective. One thing I did instead of cut my family off was I accidentally outed myself to my grandfather and got told I wasn't part of the family anymore. Thanks to all the useless pieces of poo poo who gave him his most favorite christmas gift. Maybe republicans can cut AIDS treatments so they can try to kill me off like my uncle and scorch me out of the family histories. Jokes on them, I'm clean. Schizotek fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 21:17
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Nate Cohn has Hillary up over 2 million in the popular vote. Jesus. Heartbreaking.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:18
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Lightning Knight posted:Nah. They'll blame Obama and it'll work because they're white Republicans, they get legitimacy by default. "You hurt our feelings so we voted to burn the country down." "...Why are you unreasonably complaining about us now??" porfiria posted:Nate Cohn has Hillary up over 2 million in the popular vote. Jesus. On one hand you go in playing the game to win by its rules but on the other they are going to act like they have a mandate to do everything even though the majority of voters in this country rejected their candidate. The Founding Fathers really set up a poo poo system.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:18
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negromancer posted:and for apparently most white people, when the direct offer of restoring full on white supremacy is on the table, nothing else matters, not even who's offering it.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:18
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I doubt Roe v. Wade will get overturned so much as you'll probably see more & more of the stupid restrictive poo poo like building codes & admitting priveleges(sic) used to whittle the whole thing away.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:18
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Squashing Machine posted:Well, if that's not just straight up hateful then I don't know what is. Really, dude. A vote for Trump ranks above it imo.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:17
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Trabisnikof posted:Some people consider supporting racism/sexism to be more than just a political disagreement. Apparently its not, because it affects white people at roughly the same level in their lives. Squashing Machine posted:Well, if that's not just straight up hateful then I don't know what is. Really, dude. if a little over half of the white people in America vanished today, yes, that would result in a massive decrease in racism and sexism and I probably wouldn't have to see another confederate flag for the rest of my life. But please, tell me more about how wishing racists and sexists would disappear makes ME the real hateful one.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:19
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Ornedan posted:You seem to be forgetting things like AT&T room 641a from the Bush era. Really one of the major failings of Obama is that he kept all the horrors Bush started going. Trump will in all likelihood do the same, and they will get to keep refining their work. Obama's greatest accomplishment was convincing people that he wouldn't continue most of Bush's policies. In 2008, most people believed that he would end Bush's surveillance programs (in spite of a voting record that suggested otherwise), and it was taken for granted that he would end the Bush tax cuts ASAP.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:18
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PKJC posted:We're discussing bigotry here, which wouldn't necessarily be the same as just a difference of political opinion. Turns out though one of the candidates was super open about being a huge bigot, on top of a rapist, and ~60mil people said yeah okay that sounds good and correct. So in this case disagreeing politically lines up p deece with how you fall on bigotry okay vs not okay. My aunt posted some bullshit thing like "a sign of maturity is being able to disagree with people respectfully" which of course we all know means nothing when it's time to disagree with Obama or BLM or someone else not worthy of being 'people.' So yeah, I responded with, "I can disagree respectfully when people have a different favorite color, when people are trying to restrict my access to basic healthcare, I do not feel obligated to disagree politely."
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Nov 9, 2016 21:19
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PKJC posted:A vote for Trump ranks above it imo. I didn't vote for Trump, and I don't spend time fantasizing about extinguishing people. Excusing this kind of poo poo is infantilizing at best and hate at worst.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:19
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What's the alternative? If we just write off white people, they're racists, we can't reach them through anything but racism, what's the future for Democrats? Sitting patiently until demographics shift? That's it?
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Nov 9, 2016 21:20
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Radish posted:"You hurt our feelings so we voted to burn the country down." I'm not sure if this is sarcasm but, like, Jesus guys the last Republican administration started two wars and crashed the world economy. That was AFTER 9/11. Trump is already gearing up to be that bad and he's not even inaugurated. We're so utterly, impossibly hosed it isn't even funny anymore. The Democratic Party is dead.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:19
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Lightning Knight posted:It literally doesn't matter what the post mortem says we're going to control none of the government until 2024 bare minimum. I am not convinced 2020 is doomed. It's not completely impossible we might retake the Senate in 2018, although I wouldn't bet too mich more than a nickel on that one.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:19
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C2C - 2.0 posted:I doubt Roe v. Wade will get overturned so much as you'll probably see more & more of the stupid restrictive poo poo like building codes & admitting priveleges(sic) used to whittle the whole thing away. Trump's list of nominees all would strike down Roe v Wade
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Nov 9, 2016 21:20
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm not sure if this is sarcasm but, like, Jesus guys the last Republican administration started two wars and crashed the world economy. Nah I agree with you.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:20
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There are, according to the last census around 169 million white people of voting age in the US. That 53 million of them voted for Trump is not even a majority, heck, it's not even 1/3rd of the population. Blame voter apathy (or blame polls showing Hillary comfortably in the lead as of the afternoon of the 8th) if you want but saying that the 31% of whites that voted for Trump represents all whites and all whites are thus racist, bigoted misogynists is absurd.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:20
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How did voter turnout drop this much since 2012? The election has been the entire world news for a year and a half, it's hard to imagine that many people didn't feel like they had a stake in it and if you're using enthusiasm as the reason, I don't see why Trump would've lost 2 million votes off Romney.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:21
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Guy Goodbody posted:Who are they going to run? In 2004 the economy was hosed, America was in a lovely war, the Republican president was a dumb idiot. Democrats thought, "things are so bad, we can run a cardboard cutout and still win!" Warren is the clear choice. If you want to compare it to '04, she's our Howard Dean.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:22
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I am not convinced 2020 is doomed. It's not completely impossible we might retake the Senate in 2018, although I wouldn't bet too mich more than a nickel on that one. It's impossible. The majority of Seats up in 2018 are Democrats who won by riding Obama's coat tails. Republicans will gain Senate sets in 2018
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Nov 9, 2016 21:22
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Ratoslov posted:Okay. They like that, but the other guy is more than promising to give them back their jobs, he's also promising to deport mexicans. They like that more. How do you compete? A fair number of hispanics went along for the ride, though. I don't think that kicking out undocumented immigrants is that insane of a proposal.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:22
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I am not convinced 2020 is doomed. It's not completely impossible we might retake the Senate in 2018, although I wouldn't bet too mich more than a nickel on that one. 2004 man. Bush II managed to get reelected, Trump will too. We just lost in a presidential election year because of crappy turnout and white betrayal. We're not going to win in an off-year when we have to defend half our seats. Again: people asking what the future of the Democratic Party without catering to white privilege is, there is no future. We lost.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:22
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Guy Goodbody posted:Who are they going to run? In 2004 the economy was hosed, America was in a lovely war, the Republican president was a dumb idiot. Democrats thought, "things are so bad, we can run a cardboard cutout and still win!" I think the big difference here is - Much different electorate in 2020 than 2004 (and no, Trump didn't make significant gains compared to McCain or Romney) - Lessened enthusiasm after poo poo inevitably goes belly-up and Trumpers get mad that America still isn't great yet - The Dems will not be selecting a candidate with 30+ years of baggage Also GWB wasn't that unpopular in 2004, his favorables only began to nosedive after his reelection.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:23
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