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Edit: the worst snype was here
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Nov 9, 2016 21:27
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Koalas March posted:this is actually really interesting, thank you for explaining.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:27
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Out of curiosity, lets say a wild trump/no voter appeared in this thread and said something like "I voted for trump because [not racist reason, probably economics who knows] so I'm not a racist" or "I didnt vote at all so I'm not a racist" what's the general path you would take to convince them to vote for black interests in future elections? I'm seeing a lot of "they'll never change hail satan death is certain" defeatist sentiment when it comes to actually winning those people over (in general, not this thread specifically) which doesn't mesh well with pushing progress or political change, as evidenced by this election
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Nov 9, 2016 21:27
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FactsAreUseless posted:I will say that, as a white guy, it took me a long time to understand things like internalized racism/misogyny/homophobia, let alone the complexities of race relations between different minorities. When the world is always presented to you as "white" or "minority," it can come as a huge surprise - and it takes a little bit to understand. Yeah thats one of the reasons I was confused. It was either genuine ignorance (which is why I suggested PMs) or nonsense. Despite what white racists think is going on (again by my pms) I'm not about to jump the gun if I don't know what's going on. 
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Nov 9, 2016 21:29
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Koalas March posted:but yeah, I'm not trying to say OMG WHITE GAYS ARE WAY MORE RACIST GUYS, just that they support white supremacy at least as much as other white americans. Like god google "grindr + not black or asian" and see what comes up. White guy dating a black guy here, and from what he has shared with me from his Grindr adventures, it is incredible how quick gay guys are to cross out entire races from messaging them. I've never used dating apps like this, and it makes me wonder if similar poo poo happens on tinder as well. Of course, once he gets past those he then has to deal with all the weird, cringy, and fetishistic messages that are clearly racially based. A combination of those really drove him away from using dating apps in general after a while.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:29
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If I'm missing something very obvious to you then I would appreciate an explanation because I feel like "I vote for this thing that empowers white people because I am white and like being more powerful than not white people" and "I vote for this thing that empowers white people and fucks me over because I am not white but I hate this other not white person" are different things. Like they have the same effect but in terms of individual motivation they seem like they'd be different.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:31
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OwlFancier posted:Are you saying this in terms of design, or in terms of the individual voters? Positing black people as the one true other that must be crushed under the boot heel of whiteness or else is pretty much a cornerstone of white supremacy, and it continues to stand because it's very good at getting other groups to play along in the hopes that one day they will be deemed "white" and receive the attendant privileges. It's pretty basic divide and conquer.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:34
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Koalas March posted:That's crazy!!! I'm still new to this part. I have a lot of good black and latina women in my life who I work for and with and none of them show that kind of awful garbage. But then, I live in MD., which I'm thankful didn't fail us all like PA did (My congressman and my Senator both won their elections). Koalas March posted:I have (very personal experiences) such sights to show you.  Jesus. It's just poo poo all the way down the rabbit hole, isn't it?
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Nov 9, 2016 21:35
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OwlFancier posted:If I'm missing something very obvious to you then I would appreciate an explanation because I feel like "I vote for this thing that empowers white people because I am white and like being more powerful than not white people" and "I vote for this thing that empowers white people and fucks me over because I am not white but I hate this other not white person" are different things. anything that promotes, establishes and entrenches white supremacy is white supremacy. manufacturing reasons for other minorities and poor whites to fight among themselves so whites can swoop in and do (whatever) is like White Supremacy 101. It's the first thing they teach you. Talmonis posted:I'm still new to this part. I have a lot of good black and latina women in my life who I work for and with and none of them show that kind of awful garbage. But then, I live in MD., which I'm thankful didn't fail us all like PA did (My congressman and my Senator both won their elections). You are very lucky! But this doesn't mean that the black & latina women in your life are unicorns. it just means they are good people.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:35
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Control Volume posted:Out of curiosity, lets say a wild trump/no voter appeared in this thread and said something like "I voted for trump because [not racist reason, probably economics who knows] so I'm not a racist" or "I didnt vote at all so I'm not a racist" what's the general path you would take to convince them to vote for black interests in future elections? I'm seeing a lot of "they'll never change hail satan death is certain" defeatist sentiment when it comes to actually winning those people over (in general, not this thread specifically) which doesn't mesh well with pushing progress or political change, as evidenced by this election If someone comes in here to justify how they voted for an open white supremacist, their post will get reported and they will be asked to leave the thread in no uncertain terms. The arguments have been made consistently over the past years as to why they shouldn't have voted for Trump. I'm not interested in a discussion with them except for where they would like to meet up so I can beat some sense into them. Also, there are white passing Latin@ that absolutely voted for Trump because they KNOW they are white passing and therefore exempt from the hurtful policies.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:34
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Honestly any focus on missing minority voters is deeply suspicious to me. Yes when all is said and done there may be fewer votes in Detroit, but I'm pretty sure the 75k vote swing in Maccomb had more to do with it as it's representative of the vicious white grievance politics that motivated the white wave that swept most of the Midwest and Pennsylvania. And it's all well and good to pretend it's just economic grievance but it happily ignores that the grievance there is toward the minorities, especially Hispanics, they think are gaining off their 'misfortune'. Like claiming states rights is the cause for the civil war to occlude any racial aspect of it. What I'm saying is where's Michelle's "gently caress whitey" speech? I've been promised it for 8 years and I think now would be a grand time to dust it off.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:37
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Deofuta posted:White guy dating a black guy here, and from what he has shared with me from his Grindr adventures, it is incredible how quick gay guys are to cross out entire races from messaging them. I've never used dating apps like this, and it makes me wonder if similar poo poo happens on tinder as well. Of course, once he gets past those he then has to deal with all the weird, cringy, and fetishistic messages that are clearly racially based. A combination of those really drove him away from using dating apps in general after a while. Dating sites in general are a wasteland of broken undateable people who I think accrue over time because most the dateable ones stop using the app, its basically a de facto net for some of the weirdest, most socially maladjusted people out there
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Nov 9, 2016 21:38
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negromancer posted:If someone comes in here to justify how they voted for an open white supremacist, their post will get reported and they will be asked to leave the thread in no uncertain terms. Unless you are crawling to m, hat in had, explaining your dumbass vote, and why you regret your dumbass vote, don't even loving bother. In my opinion exclaiming that you voted Trump is at least glaring approval of racism and sexism and I refuse to deal with that poo poo.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:40
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Koalas March posted:anything that promotes, establishes and entrenches white supremacy is white supremacy. My mental image is a bucket of crabs where the rules make it a whole hell of a lot easier and safer to pull down on or step on black people. That about right?
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Nov 9, 2016 21:41
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Control Volume posted:Dating sites in general are a wasteland of broken undateable people who I think accrue over time because most the dateable ones stop using the app, its basically a de facto net for some of the weirdest, most socially maladjusted people out there See, this is the first explanation I've heard about dating sites being wastelands that finally makes sense.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:40
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this entire thread on gbs tells me everything i need to know about gbs https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3797298&pagenumber=6#post466292058 BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 21:41
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negromancer posted:If someone comes in here to justify how they voted for an open white supremacist, their post will get reported and they will be asked to leave the thread in no uncertain terms. Wouldn't that just leave the status quo of them voting for Trump in the next election, though? Im more asking what the methods are for having Trump not win again 4 years from now, for personal use.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:40
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there wolf posted:Positing black people as the one true other that must be crushed under the boot heel of whiteness or else is pretty much a cornerstone of white supremacy, and it continues to stand because it's very good at getting other groups to play along in the hopes that one day they will be deemed "white" and receive the attendant privileges. It's pretty basic divide and conquer. I... guess? Like I can entirely accept that is a thing but I have difficulty seeing that as the primary motivation of a POC voting Trump. Especially when he's been going after lots of different POC as his scapegoat. Like I don't see how you hear "I'm going to build a big wall to keep all the mexicans out" as a latinx person and thing "yes if I vote for this guy I will finally be accepted as white" but "I'm poor and the last 8 years have done nothing for me so gently caress it I'm voting for the guy who's going to do something even if he hates me" I at least can. And I think that probably applies to some of the white vote too. Koalas March posted:anything that promotes, establishes and entrenches white supremacy is white supremacy. By design, yes, I concur. But the point I guess I am trying to make is that the motivations that all of those individual groups and people are experiencing are surely different? Like I don't think that everything that supports white supremacy is done so out of the conscious motivation of "gently caress everyone else let's give everything to whitey!" And so to attack the entire edifice of white supremacy it would be necessary to knock out all the pillars supporting it, and finding actual real solutions to the problems that the rich, powerful, and white have convinced otherwise natural allies that they are caused by each other, or at the very least convincing people of what the actual cause of those problems is.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:44
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Control Volume posted:Wouldn't that just leave the status quo of them voting for Trump in the next election, though? Im more asking what the methods are for having Trump not win again 4 years from now, for personal use. Anyone you know who voted Trump should be cut out from your life. I'm not trying to say "well people who disagree with me politically should he punished" but I do believe people who are endorsed by the literal KKK should be ostracized. There's a reason the KKK collapsed after Superman mocked them. This election should've repudiated racist beliefs but it endorsed them instead. white racists are not going to give a gently caress about their racism until more white people start mocking them. Full stop.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:48
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The thing people are saying is that "identity politics" and lack of focus on "economic" as well as Hillary Clinton were the reasons that she lost. The first is true only because people are retaliating against what they perceive as minorities getting special perks, basically equality. The second is bullshit because Trump didn't really have a economic plan to bring anything back to appease those voters. I mean he won the union vote which reminds me of the awful racist past of unions. I hate the third argument that Hillary Clinton was the reason for the loss as well, because it's usually coming from salty Bernie Sanders supporters and you can say this about any election where a candidate loses because there really is no way to disprove it. But I will say this, Hillary Clinton had one of the most fleshed out platforms for a candidate that I have seen that is rivaled only by Obama in recent memory.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:49
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blackguy32 posted:The thing people are saying is that "identity politics" and lack of focus on "economic" as well as Hillary Clinton were the reasons that she lost. She could be the most careful and competent stateswoman in the world but ultimately her promise was to continue Obama's administration, and thus relies on you thinking that's a good thing for you to begin with. That trump is an idiot with no plan or hope of doing anything doesn't matter, he says he knows what he's doing and can fix it. That exact difference is what lost the Brexit referendum in my country, exactly that. The leave side made up absolutely everything against the manifestly better organized status quo, and they won, because the status quo hasn't been doing people much good here. Were there any justice then yes, she would have won, because she is a formidable politician and by all accounts a far better person to run the country than Trump, but reality just isn't what matters to voters at the moment, it's all what they perceive. The UK has lost two votes recently despite the truth of which is the better option being pretty loving obvious, but the side that won talked a better talk, while being utterly void of substance. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 21:51
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Koalas March posted:white racists are not going to give a gently caress about their racism until more white people start mocking them. They WERE mocked. Look at where we are. all that ended up happening was them yelling "  REVERSE RACISM/CULTURAL MARKISUM" and them completely missing the loving point (and getting self-radicalized by the internet in the process)
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Nov 9, 2016 21:52
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Koalas March posted:There's a reason the KKK collapsed after Superman mocked them. Yeah, we really need more Stetson Kennedy types (the guy responsible for said Superman radio shows that put such a hurt on the KKK, in case anyone didn't know). Thing is, I don't know if there are that many people around today that can stand to do lip-service to infiltrate the groups and then turn around and write parody scripts for superhero programs where they get mocked and hosed over in the "hearts and minds" war (or who can get away with doing so long enough to make a difference given how easy it is to internet detective every detail of someone's personal life). EDIT: Oh hey, I earned a custom title. Neat.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:54
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The white supremacists were all people that have voted repub since lbj, and they were DELIGHTED that they could vote for EXACTLY what they believed for a change. But that wasn't enough; the right-wing 'christians' held their nose and voted for a man that's exactly opposite of what they claim to believe. Then the loving democrats simply didn't show up, AGAIN, just like midterms, I guess Hillary wasn't 'inspiring' enough or w/e. gently caress Democrats, you don't get a loving shiny JFK or Obama every time.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:56
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OwlFancier posted:I... guess? Like I can entirely accept that is a thing but I have difficulty seeing that as the primary motivation of a POC voting Trump. Especially when he's been going after lots of different POC as his scapegoat. Look up the Caucasian race resolution of 1943.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:57
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blackguy32 posted:The thing people are saying is that "identity politics" and lack of focus on "economic" as well as Hillary Clinton were the reasons that she lost. I think you're underestimating the draw of the economic message, while overestimating the intelligence of the Trump supporter. "I'm gonna make America great again. I'm gonna bring back tha jobs." Is all they want to hear. Policy scares and angers them, because it's more complex than a soundbite and bores them. Clinton is both the reason for the loss, and the victim of it. She did nothing wrong to deserve the scorn heaped upon her, as that lies with the right wing alone, but her candidacy in light of that scorn sank the election. Sanders likely would not have fared any better. I don't think we have an answer that isn't pandering to the lowest common denominator. Koalas March posted:
It's this. I'm gonna need some tips for playing offense for a while.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:57
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There is someone seriously burning some money today for red titles.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:57
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Race Realists posted:They WERE mocked. Lol if you think a few people saying "hey that's lovely" equals what should've been the reaction to Trump campaign. Also lol if you think "wow he's a clown" is in any way equal to the the electoral teardown he should have got. (Which would've been more whites coming out against him. And there is the problem, not enough whites voting against him, I wonder why??) White people failed you. I'm sorry, but take it from me, you'll get used to it
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Nov 9, 2016 21:57
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Talmonis posted:It's this. I'm gonna need some tips for playing offense for a while.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:00
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Control Volume posted:Wouldn't that just leave the status quo of them voting for Trump in the next election, though? Im more asking what the methods are for having Trump not win again 4 years from now, for personal use. You're in the wrong thread for that question. Don't ask black people how to solve the racism white people created. That's a conversation white people need to have with each other. Koalas March posted:Anyone you know who voted Trump should be cut out from your life. But this is a good start.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:02
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Koalas March posted:Anyone you know who voted Trump should be cut out from your life. More white people mocked white racists the entire leadup into this election and it ended in a trump victory that broke almost every polling model from how much of an upset it was, and all the personal ostracization I've seen as a third party to the conversation just leads to severing ties without a change in political stance. I've personally used mockery as more catharsis than anything and never considered it to progress anything other than my mental health. Saying its the only tool that works seems like a dubious claim when heavily increased usage of that tool didn't stop a trump victory. Is there data from recent years (post 2000) to back mockery up? Is there some sort of artform to mockery that I'm missing that changes it from ineffectual and alienating to a tool that embarrasses the other party?
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Nov 9, 2016 22:02
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teen witch posted:There is someone seriously burning some money today for red titles. A whole bunch of people who toxxed for Trump had  sitting around waiting to unban themselves and suddenly no longer needed to do that.The fact that they're using that money to instead poo poo on minority posters and allies is telling.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:05
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Posting here is pretty much a shortcut to getting red text.Control Volume posted:More white people mocked white racists the entire leadup into this election and it ended in a trump victory that broke almost every polling model from how much of an upset it was, and all the personal ostracization I've seen as a third party to the conversation just leads to severing ties without a change in political stance. I've personally used mockery as more catharsis than anything and never considered it to progress anything other than my mental health. Saying its the only tool that works seems like a dubious claim when heavily increased usage of that tool didn't stop a trump victory. No, they mocked Trump directly, and mocked his supporters indirectly. You absolutely must mock his supporters directly and make them suffer social ostracism directly.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:04
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This was touched on earlier, but there is a serious problem with racism in american gay communities. For instance, something dating apps highlighted is that a lot of gays are not cool with interracial couplings. You have tons of profiles saying stuff like "no blacks, no asians, no fems" or "not into rice" or "blocking more asians than the great wall of china" etc etc. Now the thing that muddies the water is that we all have sexual preferences.You can't usually control what turns you on or you find attractive, after all. But there's a line between generally not being into a certain "races" and just blank refuse to entertain the thought of dating or loving a PoC. And I am sure lots of my lgbt PoC siblings have heard "you're pretty hot, for a black/latinx/asian person", right? The other side of the coin is the insane fetishation that's going on. Asians are femme twinks, black guys are dominant thugs with big dicks, etc. It's dehumanising, and it's not exactly rare in the hypersexed gay community. Amd that's not even getting in to the white gays still being salty over prop 8. At the time prop 8 felt a lot like a stab in the back from the black community, and even 8 years later i am pretty sure a lot of white gays still bear a grudge against the black community for that There's also whitewashing of queer history. The movie depicting the famous stonewall riots starred a white attractive gay man, while the real instigators of sronewall were badass trans poc. In fact, some of the biggest driverd of lgbt rights are the uberfemmy PoCs and dragqueens and transpeople, but they arent given credit. In short, racism is a problem in the lgbt world, and white privilege isnt just for straight people Edit: oh hey people already covered this in a much better way than I did. Nvm McCloud fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 22:06
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Shame and fear of being ostracized is what is supposed to make people being mocked for their racist stupidity fall in line after they get over their hurt feelings. But now, now they're empowered. Not enough of us spoke out. I'm guilty of it. I spoke up, and played defense, and shot down the bullshit they slung in my home and social circles, but didn't go after people like I should have. Edit: Negromancer beat me to it. Talmonis fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 22:06
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negromancer posted:You're in the wrong thread for that question. poo poo man I barely even know what racism is and I'm extracting my experiences with homophobia just to even form a rough approximation of what I think it feels like. I don't even know what the starting point of that discussion would even be, which is why I'm asking. Just need talking points/approaches/whatever to get me started
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Nov 9, 2016 22:07
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I like my red text. It's non-offensive and I'm happy somebody thought I'm annoying enough about progressivism they gave me a silly anime avatar. Negromancer are you actually moving to Africa? Sincere question.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:07
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Koalas March posted:Lol if you think a few people saying "hey that's lovely" equals what should've been the reaction to Trump campaign. go on the /pol/ boards, or really ANY Alt-Right site (hell just go on gbs right now), and you will see what we're dealing with these loving mongoloids REALLY believe that there is some secret war going on against them, and that Their Country That Their Ancestors built an entire generation who dont get, and simply dont want to get, this whole racial equality thing just pretend it doesnt exist
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Nov 9, 2016 22:07
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Control Volume posted:More white people mocked white racists the entire leadup into this election and it ended in a trump victory that broke almost every polling model from how much of an upset it was, and all the personal ostracization I've seen as a third party to the conversation just leads to severing ties without a change in political stance. I've personally used mockery as more catharsis than anything and never considered it to progress anything other than my mental health. Saying its the only tool that works seems like a dubious claim when heavily increased usage of that tool didn't stop a trump victory. No. here is the loving problem. You are confusing "other whites mocked people for their racism (at all)" with what I am saying. Sam Bee and Seth Meyers and John Oliver calling people out Is not the same as white people voting down white supremacy unilaterally. that poo poo is on you
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Nov 9, 2016 22:08
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negromancer posted:Posting here is pretty much a shortcut to getting red text. I got you that before this thread as an act of love 
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Nov 9, 2016 22:10
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