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Psychorider posted:The stagecoach will always have enough heroes to bring you up to 4, even if you haven't upgraded it. An easy way for that to happen is to lose someone in the tutorial, there will be 3 or 4 heroes when you get to the hamlet. 
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Nov 8, 2016 21:12
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Psychorider posted:The stagecoach will always have enough heroes to bring you up to 4, even if you haven't upgraded it. An easy way for that to happen is to lose someone in the tutorial, there will be 3 or 4 heroes when you get to the hamlet. Oh, that's pretty cool actually, I didn't know that.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:14
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Highwant ate food? Highwang ate food! HE ATE ALL THE FOOD! Yeeeeeesssss! We are one step closer to the Stars Being Right! *elated dance* So yeah, now I just need to start yelling at you about stunning. Why are you not stunning with your vestal, Highwang? Why? WHY ARE THERE SO FEW STUNS? Unless your answer is 'because I want my heroes stressed and dismembered, and fresh new  CrazySalamander posted:Also, just fought the prophet, misread the valid slots on a bounty hunter on my double bounty hunter party. Front guy sat there being useless the entire fight. The prophet didn't even deign to do anything to him. It's almost like he knew... I love incidental moments of emergent storytelling in gameplay like that, and Darkest Dungeon seems to be full of them. Like when my Man-at-Arms Virtue'd right before getting Heave-To'd when I fought the Drowned Crew, giving me the first experience of what happens when that happens, at literally the most dramatically appropriate moment. That is a glorious bark to go with the effect, and so very fitting for the Man-at-Arms. I literally hollered and whooped with joy. 
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Nov 8, 2016 21:51
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His vestal doesn't stun because he has reduced stun chance trinkets equipped, so it'll only work half the time. or worse.
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Nov 8, 2016 22:21
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Veloxyll posted:His vestal doesn't stun because he has reduced stun chance trinkets equipped, so it'll only work half the time. or worse. Man, that's what they were talking about? I couldn't for the life of me understand why he was saying the vestal stun worked so poorly. I never use the -stun trinkets myself.
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Nov 8, 2016 23:09
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First champion dungeon in a long time, I FORGOT THE PAIN.
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Nov 9, 2016 02:51
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Killed my first Shambler. Thanks 'wang for showing what not to do. 
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Nov 9, 2016 19:13
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Took on the Swine King tonight. Thankfully managed to kill him, but do you know the Highwayman's riposte activates upon being marked? I do now.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:40
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Samovar posted:Took on the Swine King tonight. Thankfully managed to kill him, but do you know the Highwayman's riposte activates upon being marked? I do now. Probably because Wilbur's Mark does damage, which iirc is the impetus for a riposte. This is why inversely the Ghoul's Howl doesn't trigger it.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:46
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Yeah, Riposte activates upon any attempt at damage, even if it's a miss or it does 0 damage.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:21
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Yeah I remember my first Swine fight where I had a MaA in slot 1 and had riposte active, that was great.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:57
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Something I found bodging together a team for Veteran Prophet when half my garrison is red level is that Guard Other will make someone leap in front of the "rocks are going to fall here" attack changing the highlighted row. I think the rocks themselves also check if the person they are hitting is Guarded, but I'm a little vaguer on that. Either way, the prot and dodge from Rank 4 Protect Me! go a long way. Especially when I camped too early and ran out of the various damage buffs from camping one fight before the boss. Took ages to chip him down. Rasslefrassle. Enjoying that the LP made me play and stop being scared of various things, but 28 max roster feels small.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:05
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Can someone tell what happens when two antiquarians yell protect me at each other? I don't want to chance breaking my save.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:20
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CrazySalamander posted:Can someone tell what happens when two antiquarians yell protect me at each other? I don't want to chance breaking my save. I have no idea. if I had to hazard a guess, one would just prot the other and it wouldn't work. Try it out. Break your game for the sake of the LP.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:57
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CrazySalamander posted:Can someone tell what happens when two antiquarians yell protect me at each other? I don't want to chance breaking my save. I think the newer protect overrides the old one, but the buff to protection stays. When I learned this eventually ended up pairing the antiquarian with MAA in the front row so she could spam prot buff on him forever making her useful late game. The swine fight was my first loss/retreat. Video game logic over the years has taught me "If there is a big guy and a small guy calling the shots, kill the small guy" and was badly punished for it, with a one shot on my bounty hunter. That fight made me appreciate the arbalest flare, to the point of being almost necessary in higher level swine boss fights. It was interesting to me to see someone not prioritise getting rid kleptomania and other compulsion quirks, at least before the game locks them to expensiveness. It just really shat me whenever it happened. I even fired people for it, stop stealing all the treasure and touching the unholy relics. The HWM point blank shot is fantastic in the early game but really drops off in the higher difficulties. Way too much prot in enemy front lines to make a scratch. Started my prep for entry into the darkest dungeon after killing all the bosses. Hope I don't lose anyone important, takes too long to train a newbie.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:16
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The Berzerker posted:Yeah I remember my first Swine fight where I had a MaA in slot 1 and had riposte active, that was great. I just nuked Wilbur right away. Because clearly the gimmick there was that the small guy was actually the threat! 
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Nov 10, 2016 06:50
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I've wondered what would happen if you chained Antiquarian protection. As in, Anti 1 uses Protect Me on Anti 2, Anti 2 uses it on Anti 3 and then Anti 3 uses it on someone who can either self-heal or use Riposte. Too rare to get multiple Antiquarians, though, so I haven't tried it yet.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:55
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DGM_2 posted:I've wondered what would happen if you chained Antiquarian protection. As in, Anti 1 uses Protect Me on Anti 2, Anti 2 uses it on Anti 3 and then Anti 3 uses it on someone who can either self-heal or use Riposte.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:12
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New Update - Episode 30: Leppy Granola's Mentorship Program I like to imagine if you learn anything from Leppy Granola, its how to hit things hard with a slab of metal and how to keep track of flesh that just falls off.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:25
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Noo, not Kaboom. He had a good thing going on in the tavern.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:08
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Was that foreshadowing early on in the dungeon about getting a positive trait that overrides a really good one intentional, Highwang? Also Iron Chitlin was right about the shrines and it's something I never noticed before: the candles on it are indeed lit before using the quest item and extinguished afterwards, which is a very small but neat detail.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:34
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I love the leper(in a platonic manner). Not just because he's a big sack of damage and hp, not just because he can stack his resistances up stupidly high, but also because of the things he says. He's a great fit for the Ancestor's Pen.
Boksi fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 23:59
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I like to think the Vestal just lectures the brothel workers for leading such a sinful lifestyle, but is kind enough to pay them for their time.
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Nov 12, 2016 01:19
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Pay attention to the quotes she says next time. 
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Nov 12, 2016 01:54
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Teaching is the most rewarding part of having leprosy. The trick, of course, is to make the enemies as dead as your nerve endings.
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Nov 12, 2016 05:10
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Highwang, what are you doing not healing your party when the last enemy was going to die from DoT damage? Seems like you forgot to remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.  Also, add another to the list of people who bought the game because of the LP. I got it during the halloween sale. Strangely even during my first play, I found it hard to stomach doing more than 1 or 2 expeditions. That's the kind of thing I would expect after having played a game to death, not when playing for the first time. The greatest thing about the game in my view is the stories it creates. It allows me to relive the fun parts of roleplaying without any of the bad parts. e.g. Having to invest 4+ hours in hopes of having a good time without excessive rules lawyering or nerd drama. After only 2 weeks, I already have several great memories. - Used my first jester as a solo/finale jester because Highwang mostly uses them for support. It went great until I soloed the last enemy while the jester was on death's door. He got a fatal octocestus to the face in response.  In retrospect, it was the most fitting finale for a jester!- 20 weeks of nothing but bad things from books, then 3 journal entries over the course of 2 hallways and a 4th entry the following week.  - Getting 2 heads at once, not using them for weeks, first using them as I go after my first veteran boss, The Hag. Encountering a collector in the final corridor before The Hag, which was also the last battle of my camping buffs.  - Getting clobbered by the Sonourous Prophet twice in a row, struggling to assemble a new team for 9 weeks due to afflictions, disappearing and dying heroes and always only having 3 novice heroes left. Finally take him down with a leper, bounty hunter, occultist, arbalest party. - A random hallway shambler near the end of a dungeon where I kept stress low. Everyone barely surviving a long hard struggle of 1 guy hitting the shambler, while the others deal with the sycophants or heal. Getting an ancestral trinket that boosts virtue chance by 25% for the troubles.  But back to the game! Can someone tell me Why AoE or DoT attacks, I forgot which one, are considered newbie traps? So far, I've been running around in novice and veteran dungeons blighting and bleeding to my hearts content and doing fine. - DoT puts enemies on a timer. With the right trinkets and party mix you can easily take out big chunks of hp. Also, it creates space for healing or destressing people when the last few enemies are about to die to DoT. - AoE is great for taking out weak enemies and hurting stronger ones. Or if you're like me and usually don't bring any "clear all corpses" skills, just removing a corpse and setting up a live enemy to die next turn.
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Nov 12, 2016 06:12
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Pea posted:After only 2 weeks, I already have several great memories. Nice.  Honestly, while I'm not surprised HW's more casual VLP was the first Darkest Dungeon LP here, I was kind of expecting a "make your own narrative" SSLP because of how well the game lends itself to that.DOTs absolutely aren't a trap, they can be essential to efficiently dealing with high-Protect enemies. You mentioned the Octocestus guys; they're a great example of how you can stun and bash away at them, it's a lot faster to spam blight on them. Multi-rank moves are a bit more dubious. In absolute terms they do do more damage (Hew is a textbook case: it's two hits at 60% damage for a total of 120%), but spreading it out across 2 enemies means both take less and thus both are more likely to survive and hit you back. You don't get points for damage efficiency, you do best by killing their dudes and keeping yours from getting hurt. But the thing is, that's abstract theory too. Multi-rank moves help clear corpses, they can spread DOTs (which are also good for clearing corpses), pick off wounded enemies that a single-rank move would be overkill against, and get more chances to inflict critical hits (except of course for moves that take a crit penalty like Grapeshot). They absolutely have their place. My brother clowned the boss of the new Darkest-level town event dungeon our last stream mostly on the backs of Hew and the Jester rank 2+3 bleed to constantly keep him taking stacking DOTs while wounding the mooks to 1-hit kill range for the others. The thing is, it's not that the multi-rank moves are bad, it's that you only get 4 skill slots and most classes already have 3-4 essentials. Grapeshot is occasionally the right move for a highwayman, but is it right often enough to pass up Advance plus the other melee/ranged moves depending on how you have him specced? Hellions are probably going to want Hack, Swan, and If it bleeds so they can hit anywhere, and probably either YAWP or adrenaline. Can you spare a slot for Breakthrough? I usually can't. In short, it's not that multi-rank moves are the wrong answer, they're just less likely to be the right answer, so when you play for maximum paranoia like HW does (or used to  ) those are the ones you leave behind.
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Nov 12, 2016 06:39
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Pea posted:The greatest thing about the game in my view is the stories it creates. It allows me to relive the fun parts of roleplaying without any of the bad parts. On an aside, I've been playing Pillars of Eternity, and that's a game that's very much trying so hard to be D&D again but has to dance around copyrights. And that game gives me a lot of the freedom I find in D&D games. I can plan and scout ahead, set up ambushes, overcome dumb encounters by great prep work and good old traps, and enjoy a great story. That's another game that sets up opportunities for wild poo poo in a streamlined manner. This is something I want to see more of in videogames; sure we can take in a pre-canned story, but we also like to make our own and appreciate any endeavor to do so. Finally, if you like the whole "make your own experience" bit, RimWorld's really good. One day I will have an incarnation of Richard "Big Red" Hightower the crazy glitterworld colonist that built a city on his own sweat and blood.
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Nov 12, 2016 08:39
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Pea posted:Can someone tell me Why AoE or DoT attacks, I forgot which one, are considered newbie traps? DoTs used to be pseudo newbie traps early in development, they were crap. They did so little damage as compared to what powerhouses the hellion and bounty hunter were at the time. It was easier just to hit them and hope for a crit. The DoTs are now finally balanced enough where it didn't feel like crippling your party. There is also the argument that DoTs are area restricted. For characters the direct damage they do is balanced around the DoT they apply, so bringing a hound-master to the cove or ruins you are not getting that bleed, but he has ways to make up for that with his mark and stun AoE is a newbie trap as it is a perfectly legitimate strategy in the early game, which punishes you for taking it into the mid game. At this point prot starts to appear on enemies so the chip of AoE becomes barely a scratch. AoE also takes the enemy down all at the same time, and weakens your ability to alpha down priority targets. The longer the enemies stay up the more chances for an unlucky crit and/or the piling up of stress damage. AoE is best used for certain boss fights. The hound-master AoE is great for the flesh, just keeps stacking the bleed on all the segments, easy win no matter the difficulty.
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Nov 12, 2016 10:22
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Highwang posted:I really wanted to quote this because I remember a gaming website posting a really good article expanding on this idea, and its true. Darkest Dungeon is a good game by design, but its really good at creating an atmosphere where you build your own stories. It allows you to generate fantastic experiences without the bloat of a traditional P&P systems and also helps visualize it for you with a great and unique art style. It's an example of emergent gameplay that isn't the typical "we just made a sandbox, the players will make the game." XCOM is similar; there's a storyline but while you may enjoy some plot elements, the things you remember are when everyone was in medbay and you had to send rookies to a terror mission and they lived, or bring a full squad of grenadiers and watching Vahlen whine for the entire mission as you created your own 4th of July.
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Nov 12, 2016 11:28
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Valahmalah posted:AoE is a newbie trap as it is a perfectly legitimate strategy in the early game, which punishes you for taking it into the mid game. At this point prot starts to appear on enemies so the chip of AoE becomes barely a scratch. AoE also takes the enemy down all at the same time, and weakens your ability to alpha down priority targets. The longer the enemies stay up the more chances for an unlucky crit and/or the piling up of stress damage. AOE stun is great, though. Barbaric YAWP and Blinding Gas are amazing, especially if you can boost your stun proc enough to keep the enemy locked two turns in a row.
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Nov 12, 2016 12:31
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Pea posted:
You hit most of the highlights for AoE skills! Some AoE skills should be on a character 100% of the time because they can do what you described on a regular basis like Hew. Other good AoE skills are the AoE DoT skills like Harvest and Plague Grenade. The big thing about AoE is not to rely on it too much. Single targets are usually much better, but AoEs can let you cut a few corners if you work it right.
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Nov 12, 2016 14:26
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Bruceski posted:It's an example of emergent gameplay that isn't the typical "we just made a sandbox, the players will make the game." XCOM is similar; there's a storyline but while you may enjoy some plot elements, the things you remember are when everyone was in medbay and you had to send rookies to a terror mission and they lived, or bring a full squad of grenadiers and watching Vahlen whine for the entire mission as you created your own 4th of July. You even start to remember individual characters who pick up personality by random events, like my jittery, crazed Grave Robber who always seemed to go Virtuous right when I needed her or the one Sniper I had in an X-COM campaign who seemed to always make her 50-50 shots and miss her 90s. Or the two old-school X-COM characters, Patricia Gallagher and Shigeru Morita, who actually survived an entire campaign of original X-COM from the original squad of 8 rookies, Pat even surviving getting shot in the face with a plasma pistol with no armor. It is what makes these games so fun.
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Nov 12, 2016 14:41
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Highwang posted:I really wanted to quote this because I remember a gaming website posting a really good article expanding on this idea, and its true. Darkest Dungeon is a good game by design, but its really good at creating an atmosphere where you build your own stories. It allows you to generate fantastic experiences without the bloat of a traditional P&P systems and also helps visualize it for you with a great and unique art style. You should give Temple of Elemental Evil a shot. It very faithfully recreated the D&D 3E experience, right down to the point where it's 1 AM and your DM is too drunk to remember the rules, so you get to watch everything fall apart in a glorious manner.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:05
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Night10194 posted:You even start to remember individual characters who pick up personality by random events, like my jittery, crazed Grave Robber who always seemed to go Virtuous right when I needed her or the one Sniper I had in an X-COM campaign who seemed to always make her 50-50 shots and miss her 90s. Or the two old-school X-COM characters, Patricia Gallagher and Shigeru Morita, who actually survived an entire campaign of original X-COM from the original squad of 8 rookies, Pat even surviving getting shot in the face with a plasma pistol with no armor. Nothing matches the feeling of a futile boss encounter that turns around in a glorious manner by way of a Virtuous Bounty Hunter  Speaking of, had a R3 Bounty Hunter land a crit on a Giant of 66 loving damage. I nearly shat with joy. edit: wrong monster, right mission TheHoosier fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 22:55
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Pea posted:But back to the game! Can someone tell me Why AoE or DoT attacks, I forgot which one, are considered newbie traps? So far, I've been running around in novice and veteran dungeons blighting and bleeding to my hearts content and doing fine. For AoE it's about action economy. Incoming enemy damage is the same whether they're at half health or dead, so bursting an enemy down quickly means less damage incoming. Especially if that enemy deals stress damage. Cutting down the number of enemies and then taking it slow to give yourself a chance to recover is also FAR more important on higher difficulty levels. Hence the newbie trap. Sure, you can build a viable party focused on maximizing total damage through AoE and it'll be viable early game, but you'll find yourself taking a lot of damage and not having the chance to heal later on. DoTs in general are pretty well balanced; it's knowing how and when to use them that's important. Enemy DoTs get a LOT scarier in higher difficulty levels, relative to raw damage. Hermetian fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 00:51
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New Update - Episode 31: Why I do what we do Bit of a quick mission whilst I get my cash back, we use this time to cover a few recent questions that arose from this thread discussing DoT vs AoE, along with enemy variety and why some mix and match while others don't.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:37
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I used to kinda scoff at Highwang's distaste of the Occultist as a healer. Until I just lost my great Abomination to his stupid heal. Abomination was at Death's Door, so I needed one those 30+ health crits. Instead I get served a 0-point heal. That manages to apply bleed. That then promptly procs Deathblow. Thanks Occultist! 
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Nov 14, 2016 21:40
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Attestant posted:I used to kinda scoff at Highwang's distaste of the Occultist as a healer. Until I just lost my great Abomination to his stupid heal. Abomination was at Death's Door, so I needed one those 30+ health crits. Instead I get served a 0-point heal. That manages to apply bleed. That then promptly procs Deathblow. Those are the best. Have you checked his grave yet? 
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Nov 14, 2016 22:50
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Attestant posted:I used to kinda scoff at Highwang's distaste of the Occultist as a healer. Until I just lost my great Abomination to his stupid heal. Abomination was at Death's Door, so I needed one those 30+ health crits. Instead I get served a 0-point heal. That manages to apply bleed. That then promptly procs Deathblow. I still prefer the added utility the Occultist has over the Vestal. Also those deaths make for some awesome stories that keep you coming back.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:56
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