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Great report, good games, and it must be said I have a strange respect for Chris Hinkes's everlasting commitment to net damage murder
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Nov 8, 2016 04:05
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Thanks for the great write-up. Could you expand a bit on your thoughts on meta diversity? I know there was GRNDL and IG and Chaos Theory and so on at Worlds. But if you just look at the top 8, it was almost entirely Whizz/CTM, which you might think is evidence of a meta without much diversity at all. Is there really enough variance in those decks to constitute a healthy meta? Plus two other popular decks were kind of "degenerate" (though I don't really like using that word, but w/e) namely NEH Shutdown Boom and DLR. Not troll questions, I'm genuinely curious as to how it shakes out at the top level and how much variation there's room for.
Zephro fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 11:58
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Hmm. Where have I heard that before?  But that company is run by...  sonofabitch.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:38
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Hillary is a bioroid? It all makes sense now
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Nov 8, 2016 23:02
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Zephro posted:Hillary is a bioroid? It all makes sense now No she just secretly trying to turn Chelsea into one. Or Bill is more like Thomas Iguess
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Nov 8, 2016 23:28
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I just meant they kind of look alike.
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Nov 8, 2016 23:34
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Deviant posted:I just meant they kind of look alike. why yes they are both women that wear suits
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Nov 8, 2016 23:58
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Zephro posted:Thanks for the great write-up. Could you expand a bit on your thoughts on meta diversity? I know there was GRNDL and IG and Chaos Theory and so on at Worlds. But if you just look at the top 8, it was almost entirely Whizz/CTM, which you might think is evidence of a meta without much diversity at all. Is there really enough variance in those decks to constitute a healthy meta? Plus two other popular decks were kind of "degenerate" (though I don't really like using that word, but w/e) namely NEH Shutdown Boom and DLR. Not troll questions, I'm genuinely curious as to how it shakes out at the top level and how much variation there's room for. Sure. So my overall point (which may not have been communicated especially well) was that there's a lot of variety in terms of competitive archetypes capable of winning a tournament the size of worlds. If you look at the decks which made top 16 or just barely missed the cut, on the corp side you have CTM with bankers group, CTM with museum of history, Sync Boom, Sync with Biotic, ETF, and CI+NEH combo. On the runner side, you have Faust/Siphon Anarch (which is sort of a big tent itself), Temujin Anarch, Anarch with Eater/Keyhole, Anarch with DLR, plus toolbox Kate (!!!) and dyper Hayley in just the top 16, then an Atman Kate and Quetzal just missing the cut (probably a Nexus Kate as well). These decks all play out very differently in practice, they force other players to make very different hard decisions and compromises when deckbuilding (which I think is my favorite part of tuning a decklist), and they lead to by and large very interesting/interactive/challenging games (CI7 and DLR being the two exceptions IMO). Beyond these decks, which all arguably missed winning worlds by pretty small margins, the fact that you can take tier 2 decks like Palana and IG49 and GRNDL and Blue Sun Boom and ADAM still make day 2 and continue to do well is a pretty good sign. Admittedly, especially for corporations, there's a ton of overlap in the cards in your deck if you want to play one of the absolute best decks, and I do think it's bad that so many of the best cards are concentrated into two factions--I think it makes it harder to build creative and innovative decks, and I think it makes the game a lot less fun for a lot of people who are primarily drawn to the deckbuilding aspect and that really sucks, and I think that it's bad for the long term health of the game/community for certain factions (weyland) to continually be vastly underpowered (although remember, a couple years ago we were having the same conversation about Criminal, the faction which probably did the worst at worlds day 2). So with all this being said, the game is currently really fun for me, a person who likes hard, complicated, grindy, competitive games of netrunner and who is perfectly willing to netdeck when all my own brews end up sucking. I think there's a lot of diversity in the style of deck you can play, even if the very best decks are from only a handful of factions. And even then, the balance is still close enough and in-game decision making is still so important that you can get excellent results with e.g. GRNDL. edit: CTM is really stupid tho. they should ban it and make sensie actors union and eoi cost money. and put archangel on the mwl for good measure. fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 00:01
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Hot spoilerzzz https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/11/9/station-one/ Counter-surveillance is interesting. Gives you an incentive to float a single tag if you suspect nasty upgrades in a server. LOS seems decent, though not sure the biggest things crims need right now is yet more money. Seidr Adaptive Barrier looks cool, though it doesn't interact with Architects of Tomorrow.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:01
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Self-Adapting Code Wall is hot garbage, though. Magnet is the same cost, 2 higher strength, a less-common type, already blanks Parasite (AND Caissas) and can suck up parasites/caissas from elsewhere. There's no way the influence is worth such garbage-tier ice. SACW might actually be worse than Salvage, if such a thing is possible.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:45
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Had we seen Exploit in the Daedalus teaser? It's new to me, and I like it. A very appropriate Criminal counterpart to Notoriety and Quest Completed, since although it doesn't directly boost your agenda points it does open up opportunities for you instead. In my Khan deck I'll usually have five clicks lategame, too, so it's easy enough to turn three successful central runs into a wide-open scoring remote for a last-click dash.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:07
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I've just started looking at all the data packs and stuff outside of the main core set in detail and I think its so cool how they focus on different "cultures" of the Netrunner world. I particularly like the mongolian themed ones in the more recent packs because its such a rarely featured area of the world in fiction, particularly cyberpunk fiction. Anyway do any of them focus on Netrunner Europe or Germany? I recently played Shadowrun Dragonfall which did such a good job of taking a cyberpunk setting outside of the usual Japan / San Fran / Anywhere in Gibson books setting.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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mitochondritom posted:I've just started looking at all the data packs and stuff outside of the main core set in detail and I think its so cool how they focus on different "cultures" of the Netrunner world. I particularly like the mongolian themed ones in the more recent packs because its such a rarely featured area of the world in fiction, particularly cyberpunk fiction. Anyway do any of them focus on Netrunner Europe or Germany? I recently played Shadowrun Dragonfall which did such a good job of taking a cyberpunk setting outside of the usual Japan / San Fran / Anywhere in Gibson books setting. Aside from Mumbad, every cycle has mostly focused on New Angeles. After flashpoint, we're going to mars.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:47
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mitochondritom posted:I've just started looking at all the data packs and stuff outside of the main core set in detail and I think its so cool how they focus on different "cultures" of the Netrunner world. I particularly like the mongolian themed ones in the more recent packs because its such a rarely featured area of the world in fiction, particularly cyberpunk fiction. Anyway do any of them focus on Netrunner Europe or Germany? I recently played Shadowrun Dragonfall which did such a good job of taking a cyberpunk setting outside of the usual Japan / San Fran / Anywhere in Gibson books setting. HB's part of Control and Creation I guess? Nothing really interesting in that regard though.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:56
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Wait, I think I misread Counter-surveillance. It's basically Medium for tags that also works on HQ, so it's actually really good, assuming you're going tag-me anyway.
Zephro fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 23:35
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also works quite well to avoid upgrade traps and get anarch multiaccess on HQ without slotting in nerve agent, pairs incredibly well with obelus.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:37
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Maybe too late now that IG49 is going away, but wouldn't it also flip archives without accessing the same way Eater does, if you have no tags?
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Nov 10, 2016 01:11
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Yes it would. Might be necessary for the 6 shock IG that'll be around for a month at the end of red sands.
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Nov 10, 2016 01:16
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berenzen posted:Aside from Mumbad, every cycle has mostly focused on New Angeles. After flashpoint, we're going to mars. SanSan isn't New Angeles, though. New Angeles is near the Equator, in Guatemala.
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Nov 10, 2016 01:31
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mitochondritom posted:I've just started looking at all the data packs and stuff outside of the main core set in detail and I think its so cool how they focus on different "cultures" of the Netrunner world. I particularly like the mongolian themed ones in the more recent packs because its such a rarely featured area of the world in fiction, particularly cyberpunk fiction. Anyway do any of them focus on Netrunner Europe or Germany? I recently played Shadowrun Dragonfall which did such a good job of taking a cyberpunk setting outside of the usual Japan / San Fran / Anywhere in Gibson books setting. Get the Worlds of Android book. You'll loving love it. New Angeles basically has replaced Ecuador, is great. Also SanSan, SF to San Diego, BosWash, Africa is huge, and etc. Then outside of earth there a mutherfuckin space elevator, a tethered asteroid, entire Mars colonies, and way more.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:10
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Midjack posted:SanSan isn't New Angeles, though. New Angeles is near the Equator, in Guatemala. Not to mention the moon.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:35
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The first 2 cycles weren't super themed, but looking at them now, they focused mostly on New Angeles and the rest of South America, due to the references to amazon and Chile(ChiLo). Lunar Cycle was all about the beanstalk and the moon, so there's touches of New Angeles there. SanSan was about the San Francisco-San Diego super city. Mumbad was India, Flashpoint is post-Mainframe New Angeles. Red Sands is Mars. I don't know why I forgot about the SanSan cycle, considering the impact it had on the meta. Either way, my point stands- most of the cycles have had a New Angeles focus. Core boxes and Deluxe boxes sort of focus all over. berenzen fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 04:39
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What exactly is the 23 seconds incident? And Whizzard is dead in whatever storyline there is? I'm moderately interested in Android/Netrunner lore, but only started following the game in the last two months or so.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:31
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:What exactly is the 23 seconds incident? And Whizzard is dead in whatever storyline there is? Null leaked some intel to Omar Keung about how to hack into Titan Transnational. Omar did and shut down everything for 23 seconds - all transactions lost, and trillions of creds evaporated. The fallout was worse than the crime, as markets seized as the unassailable e-currency of credits was found to be unsafe. Elizabeth Mills decided that perennial thorn-in-her-side Whizzard, who was soon to rotate anyway, would be a handy scapegoat and hit him with a SAM to quell public fears about the netcrime menace.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:37
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The 23 seconds incident was when the Titan Transnational firewalls were taken down for 23 seconds by Omar Keung. During this time, a bunch of runners including Noise, Chaos Theory, and Andromeda got in and messed around with their systems and effectively devalued the credit and caused the New Angeles economy to fluctuate wildly- transaction data lost, and trillions of credits deleted from the marketplace. Meanwhile, Georgia Emelyov defected to Jinteki. It was initially thought that she caused the incident, so Weyland hired Khan to have her murdered. NBN got a whiff of this and reported on Emelyov's assassination and a cold war broke out between the corps. Additionally, Corps got a lot more hostile to runners. during this time Whizzard caught a rocket to the face, and Chaos Theory's fathers went into financial ruin. We haven't seen what happens to Andy yet, but people suspect that she made out like a bandit from the firewalls being down.
berenzen fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 05:44
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Neat, thanks guys! Those were really concise and informative explanations.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:11
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Quick Correction for Berenzen, ChiLo has been confirmed to be Chicago-St. Louis by Lukas Litzsinger (a fellow StL native.) No, I don't know how that makes much sense. But I'm presuming Jinteki bought out Monsanto in the Android Universe and by extension, the Corn Desert of Illinois. As for the 23 Seconds, I'd love to see Andy get a Corp card, back in the company of Risties. But I hadn't thought about CT's dad's card being her canonical end point. I can totally see it though, great catch!
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Nov 10, 2016 07:00
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Static Equilibrium posted:Admittedly, especially for corporations, there's a ton of overlap in the cards in your deck if you want to play one of the absolute best decks, and I do think it's bad that so many of the best cards are concentrated into two factions--I think it makes it harder to build creative and innovative decks, and I think it makes the game a lot less fun for a lot of people who are primarily drawn to the deckbuilding aspect and that really sucks, and I think that it's bad for the long term health of the game/community for certain factions (weyland) to continually be vastly underpowered (although remember, a couple years ago we were having the same conversation about Criminal, the faction which probably did the worst at worlds day 2).
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Nov 10, 2016 11:30
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Clan Vengeance owns. I want to deal damage to a Corp.
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Nov 10, 2016 11:33
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Anyone interested in promos? Trying to liquidate some of my extra stuff around my house.
Reina Roja Noise 2x Corroder 3x Datasucker 3x Wyldside Shaper 2x Chaos Theory 2x Gordian Blade 3x Aesop’s Pawnshop Criminal Leela Patel Ken Express Tenma Gabriel Santiago (plus weird Gencon Gabe card) Femme Fatale 3x Political Operative Neutral runner 3x Kati Jones 3x Plascrete Carapace -------------------------------------------- NBN Making News 2x Jackson Howard (one is foreign language) 17x Pop-up Window Jinteki Personal Evolution Swordsman Haas Bioroid Engineering the Future 6x Adonis Campaign Corporate Troubleshooter Weyand Building a Better World 3x Ice Wall 3x Scorched Earth Neutral Corp Melange Mining Corp -------------------------------------------- Weird Foiled Core Set ID’s + Chaos Theory (acetone an MTG method) Unused Chronos Protocol voting card 2013 Project Vitruvius Playmat 2014 Deep Red Playmat 2015 Silhouette Playmat
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Nov 10, 2016 11:59
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I am interested in that Femme for sure.
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Nov 10, 2016 12:05
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I'd take all the Crim cards. Don't need the polops but will take them anyway if it is easier for You to sell them in one go Edit: I'd be interested in others as well depending on price (I have no idea what they normally would run), but the crim cards are definitely my top interest Voodoofly fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 17:01
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I'd be interested in the anarch stuff, EtF, and maybe even the funky foil core IDs.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:23
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I'd be interested in a playset pop-ups, the Jackson's and a plascrete, depending on price.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:23
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Heading to my first Store Championship on Sunday, and I'm struggling to come up with a runner deck I want to play. I don't want to just netdeck one of the Worlds Whizzard decks, but my own concoctions aren't doing well in testing.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:48
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I forget, is Smoke out yet? She seems like she'd be a really solid option. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2016 18:51
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Smoke released on the 3rd? So it's not quite 11 days since release, but your store might be let it go considering store champs are pretty lax. E: how much yellow do you expect to see? The thing about hate bear is that it completely destroys CtM and gives sync a pretty rough match-up as well. But it does falter a bit more vs. glacier, unless you can start to land siphons early and often. berenzen fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 18:52
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She's out but new enough that she might not be legal. Play Noise, no one will expect it (don't actually do this)
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Nov 10, 2016 18:53
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What happens if you use Unregistered S&W .357 to shoot Ken "Express" Tenma?
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Nov 10, 2016 19:01
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berenzen posted:E: how much yellow do you expect to see? The thing about hate bear is that it completely destroys CtM and gives sync a pretty rough match-up as well. But it does falter a bit more vs. glacier, unless you can start to land siphons early and often. The casual league doesn't have much yellow IIRC, but I expect to see more people for a Store Champ and for the league members to bring more serious decks, so it's hard to say. Hopefully I'll be able to take a look at my league sheet this afternoon and see what/how many corps I've played against exactly.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:08
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