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Bullfrog posted:Ya'll, start organizing. This guy has got good ideas listen to them
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Nov 10, 2016 06:41
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Skanker posted:Eh, we saw an increase in hate crimes after Brexit. There's no reason to think lovely people won't feel emboldened now after this win. Happy reading! 
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Nov 10, 2016 06:41
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Flopsy posted:Don't talk to me like I wasn't emotional. I had a panic attack when PA was called, chewed my fingers bloody and started violently dry heaving to the point I threw up bile so don't talk like I'm not invested. I'm now on anti-anxiety meds and I'm going back into therapy. And I'm not down paying the horror that trans peope are feeling nor am i saying you don't get to grieve the poo poo hand we've all been dealt. My point is this: Have your moment of grief then bunker down and get ready to give the fuckers absolute hell. No quietly into the night business, take to streets, write letters, scream yourself hoarse if you have to. But at very least make an effort to push back however you can until we can get where we need to be. It has been less that 24 hours and everyone's just supposed to be peachy keen that decades of civil rights struggle are going to go up in smoke and things like locking in gay marriage rights, are going to be put on hold? I had like 6 hours to cope with it before attending an election "party," which functioned like more of a support group than anything else and then I slept 5 hours and have been aggressively attempting to cope. Due to time zone shenanigans I have probably had more active opportunity to cope than many people living in the US. Yet, I can't start reading the post it notes in this tweet because I break down every time I attempt to do so: https://twitter.com/TropiAries/status/796504692612329472 This is like saying <24 hours after the death of a parent, "yo brah, it's been like 19 hours, tho, and you're gonna live and you got a future so stop yer whining..."
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Nov 10, 2016 06:41
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Flopsy posted:I wish you could too man. I'm struggling to keep my head up on this too y'know? I ain't gonna lie it's going to be a shitshow but so was the bush administration and we lived with that poo poo. The left as ideology is not dead but the democratic leaders need to get their poo poo together again. Now's a good time to start. I legitimately feel like this is so much worse than Bush. Bush was a do-nothing silly president until 9/11. Trump campaigned on gently caress Mexicans and now I'm scared of white people in my blood red Wisconsin district. And I'm one of the lucky people who can pass for white.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:41
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Admiral Ray posted:UBI will get cratered as soon as someone mentions all those fake social security numbers that illegals use to siphon benefits Mexico. Possibly. It's a policy that isn't easy to sell and we've seen over and over that can kill you. But at the same time you only really have to sell it to a few swing states to get over the line.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:41
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Admiral Ray posted:Yeah, til the DEA cracks down on pot. Then we'll have a nullification crisis on our hands. This seems like it would be a terrible idea for the GOP to go through with. If anything gets young people to the polls it's weed and threatening to take away the legal weed they voted for will sour them on the GOP for a long time.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:43
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Crowsbeak posted:Well college students of all shades of skin color would love some bailouts on our loans. I feel like the moment has long since passed for that to be palatable to most of the country. e: if it ever even was
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Nov 10, 2016 06:43
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Crowsbeak posted:It helped, but the fact he offered protectionism and said he'd bring their old jobs back helped. That and RHC's husband led to alot not voting as they blamed him for helping bring the worse parts of NAFTA. I don't disagree, but how low-info does one have to be that the follow-on to the enthusiasm for the message isn't "how"?
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Nov 10, 2016 06:44
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I voted for Gloria La Riva, was kind of bummed she only got like .1% of the vote in Washington.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:44
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Lightning Knight posted:Do you think you'll still identify as a Republican after the Trump administration? Not sure about Republican, but I'll probably always identify as a moderate conservative. There's a good chance I vote all blue team next election. pocket pool posted:Did you vote at all? Yeah I voted.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:45
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Skanker posted:I don't really get why America sucks so bad about this. Parties getting to draw their own electoral zones is really stupid.The supreme court is really stupid, too. Any other Western country you'd be like "oh well, it's just a term or two of a kinda bad centre-right government." In America it's like you've elected cartoonish villains who'll gently caress poo poo up as badly as possible and make it as hard as possible to reverse it. Our system was built this way from the ground up, because half the states who had to approve it had large (and in some case majority) populations of disenfranchised slaves and they'd only join up if the rich planter elite got to control the elections and wield all the power. And it's a one-way ratchet because liberal democratic philosophy is incompatible with voter suppression, but if you gently caress up the turnout in one election and lose to authoritarians they can immediately start disenfranchising you.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:45
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Lessail posted:can we at least all agree that all these democrats giving into trump and talking about putting aside their differences need to be voted out? Because gently caress them and their spinelessness If we start seeing a bunch of little Liebermans popping up here and there, then your sentiment is completely justified for them. For now, it's premature.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:45
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Crowsbeak posted:We might want to replace the leaders. Ya wanna know what'll help? The fact that Trump can't make good on a lot of his stupid campaign promises. And I can promise you that's not going to do him any favors when re-Election come sup. He's going to call for a lot of insane bullshit that will not pass go, or he was lying as he often does and has no intentions of toeing the line and has his own agenda. Who loving knows?
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Nov 10, 2016 06:45
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Polygynous posted:It's gone, and there will be no consequences. I guess we'll see soon enough, I'm not as pessimistic.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:44
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Sir Tonk posted:yeah good luck with that one, I'm not sure even Trump and a GOP Congress can pull that off. Skanker posted:Possibly. It's a policy that isn't easy to sell and we've seen over and over that can kill you. But at the same time you only really have to sell it to a few swing states to get over the line. I think the only way to do it would be to explicitly dangle it as the end of welfare per se. We'll see. UBI is a weird thing, though. I'm not even sure what level I think it should be.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:44
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Whoa, that's a lot of economic anxiety.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:44
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Kilroy posted:We are in uncharted territory at this point and you have no actual reason to be this sure about the future after this week. I do think you're probably right, but I will also say that Democratic control of the House and Senate in 2018 will surprise me a hell of a lot less than Donald loving Trump being elected the 45th POTUS. I hope you're right. I'll be fighting very hard in 2018 to make sure this happens. At the moment I don't even want to picture the next six months, let alone two years of this country. Kilroy posted:What I'm getting at is that "Progressives" (which are about the best we can do wrt to having a left in the US right now) stand a reasonable chance of really seizing control of the Democratic party. The DLC and Clintonite Third-Way bullshit might actually be on the way out for good, which is a silver lining I take from this otherwise awful week. We'll see how it goes. I'm going to be watching Chuck Schumer's career very carefully now - if he's the de facto leader then the Democratic party as it stands is lost and the only hope for it will be primary challenges in 2018. And, if that doesn't happen, then at that point I will agree that the Democratic party is lost to the left, and also probably that no other leftist party will be able to rise up to take its place nationally. At that point we'd have no hope for a leftist choice - even a compromise faux-leftist one, for a generation. Seizing control of the Democratic party will not mean much when the Dems not only have no presence in any branch of government but also have a huge uphill climb to retake any of them. IDK, yes in the long run everything cycles out and eventually we'll have progressives in charge. But I have no confidence in that happening any time soon, so at the moment I'm really scrambling to feel any kind of optimism about the future.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:46
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CyclicalAberration posted:Not sure about Republican, but I'll probably always identify as a moderate conservative. There's a good chance I vote all blue team next election. I'm sorry your party died too. Whatever the Republicans are I can't imagine it's what you hoped for.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:46
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The Democratic Party is as "dead" as the Republican Party in 2008.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:46
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Sir Tonk posted:This seems like it would be a terrible idea for the GOP to go through with. If anything gets young people to the polls it's weed and threatening to take away the legal weed they voted for will sour them on the GOP for a long time. The GOP doesn't have to go through with it; Trump's AG does. If he tells his DEA to avoid pot, then neat. I'm not sure it'll happen. I agree that it's a terrible idea for the GOP but so is Trump.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:47
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Trabisnikof posted:The Democratic Party is as "dead" as the Republican Party in 2008. The Democrats in 2008 didn't have plans to kill the filibuster and vote in lockstep to disenfranchise anyone who voted against them.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:47
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Admiral Ray posted:UBI will get cratered as soon as someone mentions all those fake social security numbers that illegals use to siphon benefits Mexico. Bullfrog posted:Ya'll, start organizing. I'm already planning to get more involved in the Missouri progressives club.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:49
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ErIog posted:It has been less that 24 hours and everyone's just supposed to be peachy keen that decades of civil rights struggle are going to go up in smoke and things like locking in gay marriage rights, are going to be put on hold? Did you miss the part where I said it's okay to grieve? My main point is don't give up. I'm not saying you don't get to be sad man by all means do what you gotta do. But don't act like this is the end of the line.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:48
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Kilroy posted:No, that is national unity stuff and it's good they're doing it especially now. They're not - at least, some of them are not - doing that as a play to siphon off some GOP votes next election. They are doing it for the sake of pretending we still have a functioning government. Like, a smooth and peaceful transition of power to Donald Trump is better for the country than, I don't know, half the Congressional Democrats just not showing up to work or something. Look, we both know how this is going down
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Nov 10, 2016 06:48
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Lessail posted:can we at least all agree that all these democrats giving into trump and talking about putting aside their differences need to be voted out? Because gently caress them and their spinelessness I don't agree, I think they should attempt to maintain the procedural high ground until Trump does something loving insane. So about the third week of January or so. The press may not reward them, but I'm also not sure how the media will adapt after all of this either (they probably won't adapt and will pretend that Trump just another normal candidate).
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Nov 10, 2016 06:49
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Noctone posted:I feel like the moment has long since passed for that to be palatable to most of the country. It does gain traction with the young , as does ending nationwide pot prohibition. Sir Tonk posted:This seems like it would be a terrible idea for the GOP to go through with. If anything gets young people to the polls it's weed and threatening to take away the legal weed they voted for will sour them on the GOP for a long time. When has that ever stopped the GOP?
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Nov 10, 2016 06:48
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Like real talk we have a fair shot at the presidency in 2020. Maybe the Senate if 2018 isn't a total bloodbath. We'll be lucky if the Supreme Court is up for grabs in any form by then. I just have no faith that for example our R-led House and Senate won't try to pass "voter reform" laws that eliminate early and mail-in voting and require some archaic voter ID law, and then we have to fight against that and gerrymandering and the right-wing lies machine.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:49
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The Ninth Layer posted:
this literally just happened to the GOP in like 7 years
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Nov 10, 2016 06:51
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PKJC posted:For real, gently caress me if I've been missing all the best episodes of Maddow or something. Perhaps if those two words showed up in the news media next to each other, ever, maybe some people would bother to google it and do some reading even if CNN or whoever was too busy polling twitter about whether it's a real thing or not. Lol why the gently caress would white people talk about a thing that inherently benefits them and risk getting that poo poo taken away? Y'all gotta think about this poo poo. Even the most staunch liberal isn't going to give up those benefits if they absolutely don't have to, and they drat sure aren't about to go out on their own shouting from the mountaintop that they have this awesome thing that they shouldn't.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:50
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Trabisnikof posted:The Democratic Party is as "dead" as the Republican Party in 2008. I think one big distinction is that the GOP had their nutty neocon ideology to unite behind, even if they were reeling. To me, it doesn't seem like the same could be said of Democrats. (Having a unified ideology I mean.)
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Nov 10, 2016 06:52
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Lightning Knight posted:The Democrats in 2008 didn't have plans to kill the filibuster and vote in lockstep to disenfranchise anyone who voted against them. Yeah and the party survived Bush II too. Like winning the popular vote and losing the electoral college has horrible policy implications and will make the world and America a worse place. But it doesn't mean Democrats are doomed as a party.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:51
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Flopsy posted:Did you miss the part where I said it's okay to grieve? My main point is don't give up. I'm not saying you don't get to be sad man by all means do what you gotta do. But don't act like this is the end of the line. I was not meaning to imply you had no emotional response to the results, so sorry if it came across as such, but not everyone is going to grieve the same and some of us will take more time to process. If seeing other people still panicking throws you off, my honest recommendation is to disconnect, watch a movie, maybe have a nice meal if you can, continue taking care of your mental health. It took me and mine a while to process this and stop feeling quite so numb, and determine to be defiant and spiteful in continuing to live rather than give up, but someone still in the middle of grieving hasn't given up. The post I initially replied to just came across as combative to me and I felt the need to emphasize the direness of the situation to some of us who may or may not have a different situation from you.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:53
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Lightning Knight posted:The Democrats in 2008 didn't have plans to kill the filibuster and vote in lockstep to disenfranchise anyone who voted against them. You have to keep in mind that Republicans aren't as unified as they seem. They appeared to be unified when they had evil Obama to rally against but they have no focus now which means factionalism. Old guard Republicans hate Tea Party Conservatives who hate Libertarian-Leaning Republicans who hate the Old Guard etc and most of these factions also hate Trump. There is a very good and realistic chance of factionalism giving Democrats an opening to retain influence.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:53
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Sir Tonk posted:I don't agree, I think they should attempt to maintain the procedural high ground until Trump does something loving insane. So about the third week of January or so. The press may not reward them, but I'm also not sure how the media will adapt after all of this either (they probably won't adapt and will pretend that Trump just another normal candidate). Who cares about the press after this election? No matter who runs, they'll try to paint you as just as bad. What actually is just as bad is giving up quickly and telling Trump to lead away
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Nov 10, 2016 06:55
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The Ninth Layer posted:Seizing control of the Democratic party will not mean much when the Dems not only have no presence in any branch of government but also have a huge uphill climb to retake any of them. IDK, yes in the long run everything cycles out and eventually we'll have progressives in charge. But I have no confidence in that happening any time soon, so at the moment I'm really scrambling to feel any kind of optimism about the future.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:55
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"We're gonna nuke the filibuster" was also probably a post-election high statement that wasn't though out as well.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:55
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PerniciousKnid posted:Yeah I would love UBI but I can't imagine cranky white people going along with a large enough benefit to be useful. That's fantastic, keep it up! I've already got a group together with around ~300 other people organizing and discussing our plan going forward. It's exhilarating, absolutely unbelievable. Talk to your friends. Be the person who starts something. They're more willing to jump on than you think.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:56
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Lessail posted:Who cares about the press after this election? No matter who runs, they'll try to paint you as just as bad. What is just as bad is giving up quickly and telling Trump to lead away This picture, overall, feels (inaccurate as that feeling is) like how the press treated Trump: 
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Nov 10, 2016 06:57
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The Ninth Layer posted:Like real talk we have a fair shot at the presidency in 2020. Maybe the Senate if 2018 isn't a total bloodbath. We'll be lucky if the Supreme Court is up for grabs in any form by then. I just have no faith that for example our R-led House and Senate won't try to pass "voter reform" laws that eliminate early and mail-in voting and require some archaic voter ID law, and then we have to fight against that and gerrymandering and the right-wing lies machine. SC is probably hosed for 20 years. 2018 will be a huge uphill battle for the Senate. Need perfect Dem defense from 2012's wave in now redder states + picking up new red states. House is hosed because gerrymandering and then 2020's census is going to gently caress it harder/longer. There may be a Dem President in 2020 and after, but it honestly won't mean poo poo until there's a majority Dem governors for a decade+. The fight is now how can you do the most good in your own community. It always was, but it will be even more important when the safety nets get cut.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:57
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Admiral Ray posted:I wish I shared your optimism. I've been dealing with the VA for ten years now and while yes the people going there for doctors are not typically Democrats, they are very in tune with their level of care and that they aren't paying anything for it. They may bitch about long waits and overworked doctors, but they will lose their loving minds if they ever have to pay for anything and that will trickle down to their children immediately (if you have a relative that's a disabled vet, you know what I'm talking about) who will then complain to their congressman. The VA wait/death story was a pretty big deal and I doubt they can voucherize a system that supports that many people with serious health issues and bad attitudes without another media shitstorm.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:56
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