|
Khisanth Magus posted:I'm planning on doing something silly and during the first escalation round that allows TAGs, which is at 200 pts, I am planning on bringing an Iguana. The question is whether I should bring any real support for it. I'm not sure how much I'd see hackers on the other side of the table at this point level, although I guess it might happen, and I'm not sure a hacker really helps an iguana if there isn't an enemy hacker to defend against. Also, I'm not sure I'd want to bring an engineer because the Iguana is only STR 2 and has an Ejection system so it is removed from the table when it hits STR 0 and can't be repaired at that point. Part of what makes the Iguana so drat amazing is that it's a repeater. I'd take a hacker with HD+ with it so you can lay down white noise as needed. An assault hacker would help you defend it from enemy heavies/TAGs when it isn't your turn. A killer hacking device would protect it from hackers. Depends on what you're likely to go up against.
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 03:23 |
|
|
Khisanth Magus posted:I'm planning on doing something silly and during the first escalation round that allows TAGs, which is at 200 pts, I am planning on bringing an Iguana. The question is whether I should bring any real support for it. I'm not sure how much I'd see hackers on the other side of the table at this point level, although I guess it might happen, and I'm not sure a hacker really helps an iguana if there isn't an enemy hacker to defend against. Also, I'm not sure I'd want to bring an engineer because the Iguana is only STR 2 and has an Ejection system so it is removed from the table when it hits STR 0 and can't be repaired at that point. You are correct that an Iguana doesn't want repairing (in the sense of regaining STR points) as much as a heavy TAG. It may still need an engineer to get it out of IMM-2 or E/M weapon hits, which are devastating weapons against it in the same way they are against any heavy unit. I would suggest that a Clockmaker+zondbot is a pretty good choice anyway, and pairs well with a TR bot or any of the other specialists you may want to bring. A hacker to protect your TAG against other hackers isn't normally that efficient, as you'd have to get them in the right position. The Iguana is a repeater, though, making it both defendable by any hacker in your army, and a great tool with which your hacker can neutralise enemy heavy/remote units. EG, walk the Iguana up to one side of a building, then use a hacker to immobilise the HI in suppression around the corner. Next order is to walk the Iguana round, HI can only Reset as an ARO, HI eats HFT or HMG to the face. EDIT: beaten by KPC Mammon there - I play Corregidor, so I don't get Interventors and tend to forget White Noise, but that is a brilliant idea with MSV2 snipers and HMGs being such common ARO pieces.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2016 22:44
|
|
|
How about something like this: Escalation Round 3 Iguana──────────────────────────────────────────────────  6  INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42) MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39) IGUANA HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 71) IGUANA OPERATOR HMG / Pistol, Knife. (0) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)4 SWC | 200 Points Open in Infinity Army I realize it isn't optimal, but it seems like it would be fun. EDIT: Just thought I'd explain why I did a couple things. The Intruder is to continue the ongoing battle against the numerous steel phalynx players. I took the Interventor with the shotgun instead of a more ranged gun to save a point to fit in a Daktari doctor instead of just having a paramedic, since the daktari is only 2 points more than the alguacil paramedic and has mostly the same statline. Khisanth Magus fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Nov 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
Khisanth Magus posted:How about something like this: So the interventor/daktari thing is spot-on, you don't normally need your interventor gun-fighting and a daktari is much better than a lone paramedic. The much bigger and more serious problem with that list is you have poured your points into 3 big hitters who you can't push all at once, leaving you starved of orders. I would try to hit 10 models at 200 pts. Even swapping the Mobile Brigada for a Wildcat Lt and 2 jaguars/alguaciles would be a good start, giving you 8 orders. But honestly, if you want the Iguana in 200pts you should be prepared to limit your other models to combined support/fighty types, or small efficient models that fill the roles beside heavy-weapons-badass. Like Zero infiltrators, or a Stempler Zond. It may be better in the long run to find these things out for yourself. But I'd say the major mistake most new players make when they start choosing lists in Infinity is trying to cram the elite models in. It's more important to think "does the whole list have flexible options?" or "do I have weapons and abilities to cover a range of situations?" or "do I have the number of models to spread across good positions and provide orders". These are the things to concentrate on, in my experience. Results may vary.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
Khisanth Magus posted:
I wouldn't worry about ODD when you have an Iguana. The heavy flamethrower already takes care of that problem. You'd be better off with additional orders to power that Iguana, instead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
Re: vanilla vs sectorial: Infinity is a toolbox game, and fireteams are one specific type of tool. They're a strong tool, but if a sectorial lacks other tools (and most/all of them do) then fireteams don't automatically fill the gap. N3 Paradiso buffed most sectorial armies (aside from QK), but prior to that people were starting to think that vanilla armies were actually stronger than sectorials (aside from QK) due to tournament results. I suspect that it's a big part of why most sectorial armies got options on a par with QK's tools. I'd personally be loathe to play QK, for example, because despite having fantastic link teams... I'd be missing warbands (Ghazi own), cheap infiltrators (Hunzakuts own), and cheap defensive templates (Naffatun own). It drastically changes how you have to play, not always in a good way. A typical Haqq list I play has ~16 troops, while QK must take advantage of link order efficiency because most of their links are either expensive or not that impressive (basic Ghulam links). Frankly, when looking at defense, I'd rather have Mutts and Naffatun than a defensive Ghulam link - and going offensive with a Ghulam link is asking to get your order pool gutted because you moved a ton of non-resilient troops into a forward position. From another perspective, I love playing Military Orders because they enable some interesting skews that I can't really do with Haqq. Their MSV2 sweeper selection is, frankly, garbage (especially compared to vanilla PanO's stellar MSV2 sweepers), but damned if they don't do offensive linked (or, hell, even unlinked) HI brilliantly. And the cheap TO Camo access...  I think Corregidor is pretty bullshit strong though. Smoke, the best MSV2 troops in the game, great links, good airdrop troops, and some of the best board control infiltrators in the game. Admittedly, I haven't played Nomads myself, but I've played against both a ton and I feel like Corregidor is pretty much the exact same stuff made nastier. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Nov 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
I guess I am just nervous relying on the seemingly fragile iguana as my only heavy hitter. The fact I will still have the HMG on the pilot is comforting, but I guess I am just overly paranoid about odd.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2016 23:59
|
|
|
Corbeau posted:Re: vanilla vs sectorial: Infinity is a toolbox game, and fireteams are one specific type of tool. They're a strong tool, but if a sectorial lacks other tools (and most/all of them do) then fireteams don't automatically fill the gap. N3 Paradiso buffed most sectorial armies (aside from QK), but prior to that people were starting to think that vanilla armies were actually stronger than sectorials (aside from QK) due to tournament results. I suspect that it's a big part of why most sectorial armies got options on a par with QK's tools. Completely agree about Sectorials/Vanilla in general. Was interested to see at the last tournament I attended that this one group, playing in Kent, a lot more of their guys were using Sectorials and heavy-duty links than I normally see. In most areas Infinity is a small enough player base that the local scene can be far off the internet/overall perception of what's great and what's just OK. Corregidor is my only army and I do love'em. I agree they get a lot of Nomads' best things (widespread and handy specialists, hacker/repeater coverage, asymmetric weapons) but there are still a few things I miss - the best hackers, Zeros, characters like Zoe/Pi-Well and Bran Do Castro, Sin-Eaters . . . there's plenty of things I'd still like to play with in vanilla, or even Bakunin. Riot Grrls and Taskmasters are both better, or at least more interesting, HI than Mobile Brigada now IMO. Ultimately I play a Sectorial for the focussed theme rather than a conscious choice to gain an advantage. I do it instinctively with any game, picking my favourite options and specialising in those, and I think that's a relatively common impulse with lots of gamers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
CJC doubles down on a very narrow slice of Nomad bullshit, but it absolutely does give up other bullshit to get that doubling down. Intruders and smoke are great, but you can't use white noise to setup a Moria HMG to play a damned if you do damned if you don't game where they either get -6 from ODD or get -6 from White Noise. Trade off is that the Moria doesn't have MSV2, but that isn't a trade off if you are rocking an intruder HMG AND a Moria HMG with a super cheap interventer with a HD+, especially when you can get smoke from super cheap Morlocks instead of Jaguars and bring criminally cheap 19 point forward observer zeroes. Iguana is deceptively non-fragile. If someone starts shooting at a TAG, it is because they are super confident that they can make it pop (because shooting at a TAG and not finishing the job is about the worst way to spend orders). If someone starts shooting at an Iguana, they'll make it pop one STR early, but then the stupid pilot will eject to somewhere annoyingly safe ANYWHERE within 16 inches 60% of the time, and is often enough pretty safe the other 40%. 16 inches of out of turn movement that mostly ignores terrain and fire lanes is ridiculous. (edit: seriously, it is the only TAG that someone can blow up and then be angry about it.) Plus it has a repeater, which means their hacker has to deal with your hacker, and your hacker is again: ridiculous, because Nomads. Plus it is pretty cheap for what you get. Standard Nomad tech of interacting with it can leave someone feeling like some serious bullshit just happened and they wish they hadn't even bothered. Interventer shotgun is also maybe the best gun for them honestly. HD+ gives them Cybermask, so can become an impersonation marker, which lets them walk 12 inches and then lay down a shotgun template with very little that can be done about it, since cybermask doesn't set off mines like a camo marker will. Not an ideal use of an interventer, but a gross play to have in your back pocket. Cyclomatic fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Nov 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 03:24
|
|
|
goons posted:Iguana  I totally didn't just buy Djanbazans, Odalisques, alt Sun Tze, Guilang, and 2 Haramakis. They were cheap 
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 03:31
|
|
|
I haven't had a chance to play for a while since I've been busy and I have to go a bit out of my way, but I have the itch to try to make TAGs work again. Here's the list I'm thinking of taking. I've posted a similar one a long time ago but I reworked it a bit. The main idea is that the Lizard is a scary threat that can't be ignored but the Zeroes are supposed to do most of the work. Ideally the second group doesn't need to do much more than adjust positioning or dump all 5 orders into missiles if the chance ever comes up. The main reason I took Bakunin over generic Nomads is because I like the style of their non-furry units and because I get to take an extra Zero. Obviously I miss out on an Intruder by doing so but I play casual and I'm hoping I could get some laughs out of this list.  Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10  LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Pistol, Knife. (0) ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47) ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)  PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SALYUT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)GROUP 2 5  REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) VERTIGO ZOND Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18) MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Also, here's my take on the idea for Military Orders instead. Similarly the purpose of going sectorial was more so I could take larger numbers of Order Sergeants. Same deal, lay down mines and have a TAG or the Spitfire Sergeant go on a rampage. The sniper is there for reactive shots, and the Fusiliers are there for cheerleaders and the Lieutenant shell game.  Military Orders────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10  SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) FATHER-KNIGHT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 50) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army So my main question is, in the new game environment (haven't played since Human Sphere N3) would I be making more of a terrible mistake than is obvious by taking either of these lists?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 09:10
|
|
|
New Dire Foes (ISS/Haqq) box. Also Madtraps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aPi3USYVSI
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 12:59
|
|
|
Yeah, Yu Jing Dire Foes' proportions and pose look kind of screwy to me. Looks as if he has huge legs, a tiny torso, a backpack bigger than his torso, and is hunched right over.Both he and the Haqq DF have pretty handy rules though, good point men for a line infantry core fireteam.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 18:42
|
|
|
do you think the yj guy keeps getting his big backpack hoops caught on things
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 18:53
|
|
|
Pierzak posted:New Dire Foes (ISS/Haqq) box. Also Madtraps. How the gently caress are they justifying these two being 20 points.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
I rejiggered my 200 pt Iguana list to add a couple more orders and removing some of the expensive elite models for cheaper stuff: Escalation Round 3 Iguana 2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 IGUANA HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 71) IGUANA OPERATOR HMG / Pistol, Knife. (0) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) ZERO Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) GRENZER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)4 SWC | 200 Points Open in Infinity Army I was considering dropping the Hellcat for a Jaguar and another Alguacil for smoke and an extra order.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 21:07
|
|
|
Cat Face Joe posted:How the gently caress are they justifying these two being 20 points. I'll tell you after you explain the pricing of Posthumans. Clawtopsy posted:do you think the yj guy keeps getting his big backpack hoops caught on things 
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 22:31
|
|
|
Khisanth Magus posted:I rejiggered my 200 pt Iguana list to add a couple more orders and removing some of the expensive elite models for cheaper stuff: I think that's advisable, as the Hellcat currently keeps you to 7 starting orders, and is a 3rd potential order-hungry model in the list.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
Khisanth Magus posted:I rejiggered my 200 pt Iguana list to add a couple more orders and removing some of the expensive elite models for cheaper stuff: I'm just theory-crafting here but how offensively are you going to use the Hellcat? If you dropped that you could upgrade the Grenzer to an Intruder HMG (and it's definitely worth the points) with the remainder spent on a Jaguar for smoke shenanigans?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 01:36
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:I haven't had a chance to play for a while since I've been busy and I have to go a bit out of my way, but I have the itch to try to make TAGs work again. Here's the list I'm thinking of taking. I've posted a similar one a long time ago but I reworked it a bit. There's not much going on with this list in the reactive turn with this list... you'd just have pi-well, the transductors, and the TR bot out? I hope you go first (on the 12 WIP) because otherwise the TR bot is getting smoked by order 2 and you've lost board control with no way to get it back. Or, an assassin or something scalps the vertigo zond. Pretty difficult to prevent and it leaves you with just the Lizard to win the game with.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 03:42
|
|
|
Slowly chipping away at painting my Haqq dudes. Really pleased with the ochre scheme. Fairly lovely lighting, but here's the best photo I could muster without setting my flash up. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 03:47
|
|
|
Pierzak posted:I'll tell you after you explain the pricing of Posthumans. OK. Jumper is a relatively new ability that belongs to "one" unit and is still being dialed in. It was given a power bump because vanilla Aleph was seemingly under powered when looked at next to Achilles and Friends. They've had years to make adjustments to the Dire Foes characters and looking at these two news ones for 20/0 compared to the rest shows they have no plans to balance them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 03:49
|
|
|
Under 15 posted:There's not much going on with this list in the reactive turn with this list... you'd just have pi-well, the transductors, and the TR bot out? I hope you go first (on the 12 WIP) because otherwise the TR bot is getting smoked by order 2 and you've lost board control with no way to get it back. Yeah I guess I went too heavy with bots. I should just say gently caress it and go plain Nomads and put in an Intruder.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 06:14
|
|
|
These are hot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 06:37
|
|
|
Where do you see the stats for the new guys?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 10:37
|
|
|
http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/44143-dire-foes-6-thread/ They're both just insane for 20pts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 11:49
|
|
|
Xaerael posted:Slowly chipping away at painting my Haqq dudes. Really pleased with the ochre scheme. Yeah, that colour looks great on Haqq.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 14:13
|
|
|
Cat Face Joe posted:OK. Jumper is a relatively new ability that belongs to "one" unit and is still being dialed in. It was given a power bump because vanilla Aleph was seemingly under powered when looked at next to Achilles and Friends. Still, they're both undercosted quite a bit. I'd expect to see Xi Zhuang somewhere in the 25-26 pts range. And while we're complaining at stuff CB does. What in Infinity pisses off you guys? For me it's: - Dispersion. It changes every edition and every edition finds new and inventive ways to gently caress it up. - Criticals. Don't get me wrong, I love the crits themselves. My problem is that CB doesn't seem to take them into account when costing units, hence TAGs/HI seem overrated and high-burst weapons are so much useful for their cost compared to their B1 counterparts. Play a few games without crits and suddenly the pricing makes much more sense, TAGs are harder to kill, MLs etc. are more worth it. - Suspicious costs - said Posthumans (plain bullshit), HRL (not even undercosted, it's a suspiciously big dip in cost), chain rifles (why take an unlinked warband with combi/rifle/BS when you can take another chain-smoker and one will survive, especially since they can smoke-dodge on 15+), high B weapons (see above). - Sectorial-based release cycle - releasing stuff for multiple factions each month is fine unless you're one of a ton of sectorial-based people. You got into the game for cyber-samurai? Well gently caress you, wait a year while ISS gets their fill, maybe you'll get some random release in the meantime. Oh wait we got the bowninja, that's it for the Shikami in the foreseeable future. - "no profiles left behind" when releasing the new Army builder. Well, except the Shasvastii/MRRF. Sure, they're supposed to get remade (instead of getting a new sectorial) in AF, whenever it comes out. If you're playing these, you're stuck with outdated profiles until they figure out what the gently caress they're supposed to be doing. And I'm not talking about revamping the whole sectorials right the gently caress now, but about the little but needed things. Morpho-Scan? Unplayable as no currenly available rules (not even FAQ, last I checked it wasn't even updated in the wiki). Protheion lost Dogged, did it change the costs in any way? Lol nope. Protheion is leveled now, do its Shasvastii experts get it? It took over a month to get them to acknowledge there's even an issue and slap Lv1 on everything, well except maybe Sheskiin because she's supposed to be a bit better since she's got Achilles' stats and all *edgy special snowflake Samaritan gets Lv4*. Haris? Haha gently caress no, muh precious balance would be destroyed by giving some secondary unit haris like literally every other sectorial (let's make the cheap line unit not linkable instead). Oh, and Warcor Aerocam having no rules for ages is the cherry on top. Miniatures: - female minis - Bare midriff in full armor/suit (getting better though). Catwalk poses while males have sensible ones (getting better too, if slowly). Tiny hands to the point where they look like miscasts. Tiny weapons (see below). - Weapon sizes - ffs give the women lighter/compact versions, but calibers don't scale that way. Same goes the other way, Gecko combis look ridiculous. - Tactical poo poo on bases. I didn't mind that much until every single loving AD started to land on some junk. Also, tailored tactical junk with unit logo on it (Uhlan and I think new Akalis?) - Rampant copy-pasting. In traditional sculpting you had to put similar effort per model whether you made a similar or different pose/design, so models tended to be more original. Now there's a ton of "change the pose in CAD, switch a detail or two, done". This would be acceptable for a same-unit box, but we're starting to see half of PanO/YJ use the same armor model. Realism? Maybe, but if I wanted to paint identical stuff I'd play Space Marines. - I wonder in which world the Samaritan mini that tips over every time you think of him the wrong way is acceptable. Not to mention the whole "S6 pretending to be S2" thing. Yes, I'd like to pay more for tactical cabbage I'd have to saw off if I wanna actually play with that  (and inb4 "it's a display model" the breaker combi pose looks poo poo too).- ed: Scale creep. Self-explanatory and discussed at length. Enough bitching from me. I've got more but it starts getting way too specific. What about you guys? Pierzak fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Nov 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 14:26
|
|
|
this thread (the forums) Mine is probably the suspicious costs in terms of gameplay, regarding miniatures weapon sizes are inconsistent as hell with even the new stuff.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 14:34
|
|
|
Flipswitch posted:(the forums)
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 15:09
|
|
|
for a while it was lack of vedic releases but i'm hopeful, i hope the asura still stays a badass the major looking lady and also that we get some sort of dude the major that is all bishie and poo poo instead of being muscles mclargebig also i've used posthumans since they came out and were deemed Bad, gonna ride this gravy train to every station  now my present least favorite thing in infinity is people complaining about order spam without understanding order spam
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
With regards to crits, I don't really have a problem with them. However, I wouldn't be opposed to it costing a command token to confirm a critical. Would make getting diced by someone rolling non-stop crits less frustrating, since a critical is already the best possible roll they could have gotten even if it doesn't auto-wound.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Inconsistent release schedule and weird release choices (do we really need another Wu Ming model?) is definitely at or near the top of my list. That said, it's way less of a problem in Infinity than other games due to the very flexible proxy rules. Related to that is factions/sub-factions left behind. I got into ALEPH because of Vedic and then saw 2+ years of nothing but Steel Phalanx releases.  Obviously it's way worse for MRRF and Shasvastii right now, but you also have little things like the fact that JSA only has the Keisotsu box they got years ago and those models are... not good. Meanwhile Yu Jing as a whole just got Zhanshi in Red Veil AND a Zhanshi box, when Zhanshi are unplayable garbage.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 19:22
|
|
|
Pierzak posted:Except Jumper is several years older than DFs and "because they looked weak" is not a valid argument because it's the devs who are supposed to keep the balance, not dumb playerbase. I think what Posthumans need is like, a 10-15 pt surcharge on having one, period because it seems that the proxies are costed similarly to servant/synch bots but the floating, basically unkillable order is not given a cost and I figure that's worth at least 10 pts. quote:- Criticals. Don't get me wrong, I love the crits themselves. My problem is that CB doesn't seem to take them into account when costing units, hence TAGs/HI seem overrated and high-burst weapons are so much useful for their cost compared to their B1 counterparts. Play a few games without crits and suddenly the pricing makes much more sense, TAGs are harder to kill, MLs etc. are more worth it. Oh god yes pricing things with the possibility that a single good crit can gently caress up most units would be nice. Bring heavy unit prices down a fair bit. I notice a lot of tourney lists basically have minimal/no 2+W stuff or TAGs because crits encourage order spam even more than the current structure of the game does, and that seems eh. I think there should be a place for a TAG in even a non-kill-everything list.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
I don't know, won't HI and TAGs be less vulnerable to crits since they have more wounds?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Not a viking posted:I don't know, won't HI and TAGs be less vulnerable to crits since they have more wounds? HI/TAGs are also going to be exposed to a lot more crit chances because they're used more aggressively, and often have Neat Gear (TM) which makes them expensive but doesn't give them a huge crit buffer. And then there's poo poo like ninja monomolecular sword crits.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Not a viking posted:I don't know, won't HI and TAGs be less vulnerable to crits since they have more wounds?
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
I agree with a lot of the complaints picked up by Pierzak and others, but the volume and drama they're given on the internet in general is a bit much. Balance is generally good, sculpts are generally great, the rules design and release schedule outshine the competition, IMO. Definitely, some balance items like Tohaa symbiont armour, and Posthumans, and Ghazis, stand out. And I do agree that the gender di-morphism of the models is, and always has been, out of control. Crits: I like the element of chance it adds to the gameplay. Even a perfect plan can be foiled. Anyone bitter about that just needs to remember it works both ways. I can see what people mean in that it punishes elites. It must be very difficult to finely points-balance a 2W HI against a LI/MI model, as there will be a tipping point when HI are cheap enough in points that it's just better to always take them. What do people think of the idea that a Crit always wins a FtF roll, exactly as we have now, but an ARM/BTS roll is still allowed? That would keep most of the gameplay aspect of spanners in the works of risky plans, emphasise the crit-vulnerability of 1W offensive pieces over the crit-inefficiency of 2W+ heavy hitters, and decrease saltiness over seeing a single dice roll and just wordlessly removing your model from the board - the critted player still gets the comfort of rolling his save.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 21:05
|
|
|
I think that would make crits way too weak. My friend's idea was that crits still trump the FtF roll and the target gets an armor save, but they don't get their ARM value. Maybe they still get cover, but I'd like to try it with both options. That way TAGs and HI are still vulnerable to crits, but there's a difference between getting crit by some mook with a rifle and getting crit by an HMG.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 21:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 03:23 |
|
|
Pierzak posted:They are more vulnerable to crits because crits bypass their heavy armor. Remember the "Avatar vs 17 Keisotsu" match? Keisotsu won because of the sheer number of rolls. If not for crits, a combi rifle literally can't touch a pre-nerf ARM 10 Avatar in cover. I think a better way to describe it is this: You need 3 crits to down an Avatar. That's 60 rolls, on average. A bit more because the Avatar will roll crits sometimes that cancel out, but you know what I mean. an Avatar's worth of Fusiliers needs 13 crits to down. That's 260 rolls. admanb posted:I think that would make crits way too weak. What about normal crits halving ARM, AP crits negating it entirely? So your TAG is still relatively vulnerable to crits (that beefy ARM 5-10 goes down to 3-5) but will have a better chance of shrugging one off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2016 21:55
|
|