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http://www.psp-tv.com/r/NiteCrew This poll is closed. |
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500562 | 49.92% |
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139 | 0.01% |
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153 | 0.02% |
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500888 | 49.95% |
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940 | 0.09% |
| Total: | 1002682 votes | ||
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The thing that makes me sad about elections in general in the US is always the raw numbers of voters. You look at the number of people in the US who voted for Trump (18% of the population) and you can't help but wonder if democracy as it exists in the US really is broken. Sure a lot of the population of the US is people under the voting age, but when you look at the high school walkouts and just how involved people can be even under the age of 18 I feel like maybe its not fair to inflict Trump on that large demographic. You start to wonder how many of those non voters were excluded from voting because of a system that disenfranchised them, either through biased policing or just plain not offering any viable alternative. Or teaching them at a young age that they don't even matter. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 13:03
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Woooooo Hate crimes spiking, Attacks on Muslims all over Hillary should have just gone full Godwin. 'Don't elect Trump; Like Brexit, it will convince Nazis it's okay to start loving poo poo up'
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Nov 10, 2016 13:11
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:Woooooo Hate crimes spiking, Attacks on Muslims all over If democratic politicians want to redeem themselves now is the time to start making noise. As far as I'm concerned any democrat that holds office right now that doesn't start speaking out against this poo poo now should be voted the gently caress out next time they're up for election.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:14
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:Woooooo Hate crimes spiking, Attacks on Muslims all over Just imagine a Jewish candidate saying it.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:13
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mannerup posted:https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/796545156061143040
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Nov 10, 2016 13:16
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I get that its fun to say, but Bernie wouldn't have won against Trump lol "I'm an angry, racist and stupid white, better go out and vote for the communist Jew who sounds like a cartoon walrus,"
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Nov 10, 2016 13:21
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nopantsjack posted:I get that its fun to say, but Bernie wouldn't have won against Trump lol
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Nov 10, 2016 13:24
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Doorknob Slobber posted:The thing that makes me sad about elections in general in the US is always the raw numbers of voters. You look at the number of people in the US who voted for Trump (18% of the population) and you can't help but wonder if democracy as it exists in the US really is broken. Sure a lot of the population of the US is people under the voting age, but when you look at the high school walkouts and just how involved people can be even under the age of 18 I feel like maybe its not fair to inflict Trump on that large demographic. I'm not saying that the issues don't matter, because that's a prime motivator in getting people to vote, but it does seem like "getting people to physically, literally vote" is in itself an issue. Doorknob Slobber posted:If democratic politicians want to redeem themselves now is the time to start making noise. As far as I'm concerned any democrat that holds office right now that doesn't start speaking out against this poo poo now should be voted the gently caress out next time they're up for election. Speaking as a Filipino, we started getting extra-judicial killings as soon as Duterte was proclaimed President-Elect. I guarantee you're going to have a body count in the double-digits, minimum, by Inauguration Day if people don't take active steps to arrest the normalization of violence.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:23
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nopantsjack posted:I get that its fun to say, but Bernie wouldn't have won against Trump lol Looking at the numbers of people that voted for Hillary compared to Obama, I can't help but think Bernie would have turned out more of the vote and also draw in a reasonable number of people who ended up voting for third party candidates.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:24
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Hindsight is 20/20 but Bernie's appeal probably would have cut into Trump's advantage where Clinton was most vulnerable. When it became apparent that Sanders wasn't going to win the primary I figured "well at least Hillary has a ton of money and field operatives to beat Trump" but as it turns out that was completely illusory.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:30
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Doorknob Slobber posted:The thing that makes me sad about elections in general in the US is always the raw numbers of voters. You look at the number of people in the US who voted for Trump (18% of the population) and you can't help but wonder if democracy as it exists in the US really is broken. Sure a lot of the population of the US is people under the voting age, but when you look at the high school walkouts and just how involved people can be even under the age of 18 I feel like maybe its not fair to inflict Trump on that large demographic. About 6.1 million people carrying felonies in various states. And we all know how perfectly equitable our enforcement of law is... It's always rubbed me the wrong way that there's places that disenfranchise people for getting hemmed up in the legal system (for whatever reason). Problem is, advocating for those people is a losing proposition. It's like trying to combat 'Just say no to drugs.' You can't even broach the subject without someone getting hysterical about you advocating for 'bad' people, even if they paid their punitive debt to society in this case.. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2016 13:30
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exquisite tea posted:Hindsight is 20/20 but Bernie's appeal probably would have cut into Trump's advantage where Clinton was most vulnerable. When it became apparent that Sanders wasn't going to win the primary I figured "well at least Hillary has a ton of money and field operatives to beat Trump" but as it turns out that was completely illusory.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:32
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah seriously holy poo poo. What does it mean for the future of electioneering that that was all pointless?
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Nov 10, 2016 13:33
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah seriously holy poo poo. What does it mean for the future of electioneering that that was all pointless? Well for one thing it's probably completely going to change how and where donors invest their money in political campaigns. Obama rewrote the entire book on how to volley Alinsky-style organizing into a national presidential run and eight years later Trump proves you apparently don't need any of those things sometimes.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:33
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exquisite tea posted:Hindsight is 20/20 but Bernie's appeal probably would have cut into Trump's advantage where Clinton was most vulnerable. When it became apparent that Sanders wasn't going to win the primary I figured "well at least Hillary has a ton of money and field operatives to beat Trump" but as it turns out that was completely illusory. Not completely illusory. She lost by 0.3 in MI, 1.0 in WI and 1.3 in FL. Either MI or WI + FL would have been enough. It was not a monumental loss, it only appears so because of the height the whole thing fell to. From talking about 340+ maps to electing President Trump. If they had been able to see this weakness they might have been able to react to it quicker than putting people into MI on the last few days. Or if the last two weeks hadn't been taken over by EMAILS!!!! again (but there we are back at "terrible candidate with terrible baggage"...). WI being basically down to the strict voter ID laws, putting 300k voters out of the system is something that should drive everybody up in arms. But only silence, soul-searching, asking how to appeal better to the "Deplorables" (how about not calling them that?) and the usual circular firing squad.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:45
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:8 million people that turned out for obama and sat out for hillary would have sat out on bernie because he's not an extremely charismatic historic black candidate
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Nov 10, 2016 13:44
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I can't help but think "basket of deplorables" was her "47%" moment, and that the comment did a lot more damage than we all thought.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:50
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:I can't help but think "basket of deplorables" was her "47%" moment, and that the comment did a lot more damage than we all thought. I think in very simple terms that Clinton's support was always softer than Trump's, which in retrospect was proabably responsible for virtually all the volatility we saw in the polls, and that inability for the vote coalesce right up to the very end combined with a systemic polling error overly favorable to Clinton put us in the position we are today. The race was stable, it's just that the mean of stability was way lower than we all thought.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:53
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:I can't help but think "basket of deplorables" was her "47%" moment, and that the comment did a lot more damage than we all thought.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:54
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FlamingLiberal posted:According to polling (which I guess we shouldn't trust after all of this), 53% of Trump voters were late deciders. That means those things like the FBI nonsense likely had an effect. I really wish that in any of these polls we got to see WHO was undecided demographically, which is way more predictive of how they'll actually vote than anything else. Undecided voters who are more similar to Trump voters break for Trump, lo and behold.
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Nov 10, 2016 13:57
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the most important demographic that turned out for obama and not hillary is middle and working class midwestern whites. they didnt give a poo poo about him being black, in 2008 they wanted Change and in 2012 they didnt want to elect the stereotype of an rear end in a top hat Wall Street Banker. and in 2016 they wanted Change again. obama won Sheng-Ji Yang fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 13:58
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Obama won Ohio by like 3% in 2008 but the fact remains yeah. He didn't get the majority of working class whites, but he didn't get creamed either, and Obama was hugely popular with single mothers.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:00
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:I can't help but think "basket of deplorables" was her "47%" moment, and that the comment did a lot more damage than we all thought. It was great from a moralistic standpoint, because I don't think it's arguable that anyone who reveled in being called deplorable was worthy of the title, but from a purely pragmatic "need the votes to win, no matter what" perspective I think it might have been a misstep, knowing what we know now about how close this all was. Then again, Trump's victory is Kennedy-esque, so when I say "deplorables was a misstep", that's not to say any number of other missteps could have tipped the scales one way or the other to have changed the result either way.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:01
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https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/796697182275567616 https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/796697650934456320 loving lol that matt yglesias understands what this election means more than warren or sanders
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Nov 10, 2016 14:05
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The problem with saying half Trump's supporters were deplorable was that you can't really specify which half was deplorable. If you're saying roughly one in four voters is deplorable, how does a waffling voter know you're not talking about them. It doesn't matter that she specified why. It ignited the undercurrent of the cultural war involved in any presidential election. You have to convince people you're running for all the voters, even the ones who don't support you, and it's clear that it's a terrible idea for Democrats to engage in an us vs them mentality.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:06
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tadashi posted:The problem with saying half Trump's supporters were deplorable was that you can't really specify which half was deplorable. If you're saying roughly one in four voters is deplorable, how does a waffling voter know you're not talking about them. It doesn't matter that she specified why. It ignited the undercurrent of the cultural war involved in any presidential election. You have to convince people you're running for all the voters, even the ones who don't support you, and it's clear that it's a terrible idea for Democrats to engage in an us vs them mentality. Trump engaged voters in an us vs. them mentality the entire time and was rewarded with +40% margins in every white rural + working class county in the country. Democrats had a broader coalition to appeal to but you still need an affirming message besides "get a load of this guy."
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Nov 10, 2016 14:08
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exquisite tea posted:Obama won Ohio by like 3% in 2008 but the fact remains yeah. He didn't get the majority of working class whites, but he didn't get creamed either, and Obama was hugely popular with single mothers. sorry my bad I meant Iowa
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Nov 10, 2016 14:09
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exquisite tea posted:Trump engaged voters in an us vs. them mentality the entire time and was rewarded with +40% margins in every white rural + working class county in the country. Democrats had a broader coalition to appeal to but you still need an affirming message besides "get a load of this guy." What I mean is that Democrats can't get away with it. Guns and religion hurt Obama and the deplorables statement seems to have hurt Hillary. Republicans can, for whatever reason. "Them" can only be rich people or Washington elites if you're a Democrat.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:11
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People have been saying that Hilary should have focused more on her firewall states but wouldnt a 50 state stategy imply that the messaging would by necessita be more broad and appealing to working class people?
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Nov 10, 2016 14:12
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had no idea he was still alive https://twitter.com/JeffSharlet/status/796694677592403968 good times, good times e: haha I didn't remember this quote:U.S News & World Report: You criticize the Miranda ruling, which gives suspects the right to have a lawyer present before police questioning. Shouldn't people, who may be innocent, have such protection? Von Sloneker fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 14:13
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:I can't help but think "basket of deplorables" was her "47%" moment, and that the comment did a lot more damage than we all thought. Maybe not quite as strong an effect, but it didn't help I think. Generally in hindsight her whole campaign in the last few weeks at least really echoes Romney's. Right down to being completely assured of a landslide victory (and I'm sure the reason she didn't concede in the night was because she also had no concession speech, just like Romney. At least he buckled right up then and there). Only unlike Romney, where only his unskewing filter bubble was the same opinion it was the opinion of basically everyone - media, campaign, pundits, data journalist, betting providers, us here - right down to the Trump campaign higher echelon, so it was a bit more of a understandable shock for her.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:15
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I get the feeling that a lot of Trump Voters seldom or have never voted before and like know absolutely nothing about the government except that A President Exists The stories about phone poll takers having to explain that no this phone poll is not voting, you still need to go vote come to mind
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Nov 10, 2016 14:16
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A lot of people seldom vote and have no idea how the government works. That is people.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:18
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ChainsawCharlie posted:People have been saying that Hilary should have focused more on her firewall states but wouldnt a 50 state stategy imply that the messaging would by necessita be more broad and appealing to working class people? She didn't visit Wisconsin at all, which in hindsight did not help either option.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:18
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yes that's why rust belt whites voted for him, they cared so much about a black president instead of the promises made to make their economic suffering less lovely
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Nov 10, 2016 14:19
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Third World Reggin posted:A lot of elected officials have no idea how the government works. This is also true.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:21
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Third World Reggin posted:A lot of people seldom vote and have no idea how the government works. I guess you're right But the Rural White bloc that pushed Trump into the White House seems especially misinformed/seldom votin' I think I'm still just mad Y'know despite everything I'm somehow more pissed at Hil and the Dems Perhaps this will pass Monkey Fracas fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 14:25
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Monkey Fracas posted:I guess you're right they ran a lovely campaign with a lovely candidate, its entirely the dems fault stop blaming the people who voted for what they thought was in their self-interest
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Nov 10, 2016 14:32
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Monkey Fracas posted:I guess you're right Most people on this board are also really insulated from the rural areas and the extremely poor. The people I've talked to are so disengaged from the political system and don't have cable or phone service beyond pre-paid emergency cellphones. Those people are completely unreachable by modern polling and they're more common than you think. Also this election did a number on people, I had three people come in to the ER yesterday who were suicidal due to the election. 
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Nov 10, 2016 14:33
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 21:05 |
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What are the odds that (a) birth control will be made illegal and (b) gays will be forcibly sent to re-education camps?
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Nov 10, 2016 14:35
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