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Subpar Superhero posted:ah yes, the working class stakes out the twitter accounts of campaign surrogates looking for rude memes about white men. that explains our loss.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:19
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I don't think celebrities caused people to shift toward Trump and I don't think the singular act of not visiting these places caused it either. When you couple a complete neglect to acknowledge people's existence and/or plight with constant footage of you jacking yourself off about your friendships with Katy Perry, Lady Gaga and Beyonce, that's what causes problems. She became obsessed with being a really cool icon to all of these educated young women who were going to vote for her anyway and lost complete sight of the fact that there's a whole bunch of guys in rust belt states who, for better or worse, don't care about pussies being grabbed and just want to have a real job so they can live a real life. The Clinton campaign had no ability whatsoever to reconcile that reality does not equal perception and that perception is the actual driving force behind why people do what they do. She let Trump's sound bites serve as her campaign road map and in doing so, it became perceived that her primary goals were protecting women and minorities. When you focus all of your public efforts on emphasizing what a jackass the other guy is, you're only providing options to the people that guy is being a jackass to and since Trump is a white man who isn't going to bash white men in that way, you end up with a Clinton campaign where white men don't exist.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:20
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I grew up in a small town in the south that used to have a ton of union manufacturing jobs that all disappeared in the 90s. What exactly were the democrats selling those people this year? Yeah trump is lying about how he is going to improve their life any why everything sucks for them but its a newer lie than the one they've been fed for the last 20+ years by everyone else.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:20
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Goatman Sacks posted:So when literally nothing Trump promised happens in four years but his Pence shadow presidency has completely annihilated all labor unions and work protections they once enjoyed, will the rust belt people come back? Because if not they can feel free to be sucked into fast moving machinery halfway through their 18 hour shift.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:20
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:that's why all the class-only leftists went for trump!!!! That's quite possibly the scariest thing about this that I haven't even considered before.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:21
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steinrokkan posted:That's quite possibly the scariest thing about this that I haven't even considered before.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:22
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Racism, bigotry, homophobia, and white nationalism are absolutely major problems and the Democratic Party should always stand strong and loud against these things. But maybe, just maybe someone who is racist or homophobic can vote for a Democratic Candidate who is vehemently anti racist and anti homophobic because the destruction of the wage class matters a little more to them than gays or blacks. "You have an opinion I find gross so I can never talk to you about other things" is a terrible loving way to run your life, much less your political party.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:22
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Grey Fox posted:It's an indicator that the campaign did a bad job at appealing to working class people, even among the dems. I'm not disputing this at all, honestly. I do think people are discounting the importance basic narrative that Fiction presented. Trump tapped into white working class anxieties about changing demographics and lack of opportunity. But dummies here want to use this election to keep frothing at the mouth about other dummies on twitter and Tumblr and the academic left.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:22
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Goatman Sacks posted:So when literally nothing Trump promised happens in four years but his Pence shadow presidency has completely annihilated all labor unions and work protections they once enjoyed, will the rust belt people come back? Because if not they can feel free to be sucked into fast moving machinery halfway through their 18 hour shift. how the gently caress do you not understand? THEY DON'T VOTE AGAINST SOMETHING, THEY VOTE FOR SOMETHING. show them a better way and inspire, dont just say "look at that lovely guy, what a piece of poo poo he is hahaha"
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Nov 10, 2016 16:24
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Peel posted:Calling to appeal to working class whites by abandoning racial politics is a call to appeal to one segment of the democratic coalition by abandoning other parts of that coalition, right after an election where the Democrats were undermined by low turnout caused (so the theory goes) by abandoning key parts of their coalition. It's also impossible. A white supremacist is entering the White House, and Black Lives Matter has been around for years. Neither is going away and racially anxious whites will be getting plenty of stimulus to that anxiety no matter what you do. Basic message discipline and also you know hateful nonsense racism haha But the reality is that I actually agree with what you've said, and my point has never been "abandon the POC vote, focus only on rural/poor whites, gently caress everything" - that's like trying to out-Trump Trump and is stupid The point is, you can do both - appeal to working-class white people and minority groups - without it becoming some shitfit, but you can't do that without making any goddamn effort toward working-class whites at all The lesson shouldn't be "minorities hosed us over, abandon them" (nobody is actually arguing this???) or "the majority of white people in America are in fact hateful racists" because that's sort of exactly how this whole Trump presidency happened in the first place
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Nov 10, 2016 16:25
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It's going to be funny in 8 to 12 years when the north is the pro-racist section of the country and the south isn't.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:24
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HannibalBarca posted:2018 would have to be a massive, and I mean TRULY MASSIVE, 1932-level wave for the Democrats to meaningfully alter outcomes. There's something like 9 senate seats up for election in Trump-friendly states and two realistic chances to flip Republican seats blue. 2018 is not gonna save the Democratic party unless it undergoes some massive, massive structural shifts in the next year and is blessed with an extraordinarily gifted generation of new leadership. I mean, Donald loving Trump will be President, his VP is an insane evangelical, and the GOP controls Congress. I seriously can't think of a better motivator for Democrats.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:25
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:how to win rural and working class whites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nwRiuh1Cug
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Nov 10, 2016 16:26
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I mean do you think it's possible Obama won OH, PA, MI and WI in 2012 because he was out on the campaign trail every day saying "I saved General Motors and shitloads of your jobs when others wanted to let them fail"? No it must be because he appealed to their racism and distrust of big government bailouts.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:28
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Apparently it was just misogyny that cost Hillary the election. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/misogyny-us-election-voters
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Nov 10, 2016 16:29
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Terror Sweat posted:how the gently caress do you not understand? THEY DON'T VOTE AGAINST SOMETHING, THEY VOTE FOR SOMETHING. show them a better way and inspire, dont just say "look at that lovely guy, what a piece of poo poo he is hahaha" Especially when rural poor whites have spent the last decade watching the salary class point at them and say "look at these lovely guys, what pieces of poo poo they are hahaha" That's why a loving New York Billionaire whose catch phrase is "You're Fired!" got viewed as an equal by rural poor whites. They saw him get hit with the exact same poo poo they've dealt with, and nothing brings people together like mutual struggle.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:29
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Goatman Sacks posted:It's going to be funny in 8 to 12 years when the north is the pro-racist section of the country and the south isn't. It's "funny" now. I live in Minneapolis and I still see pickup trucks (invariably with Minnesota or Wisconsin plates) with the confederate flag as a vinyl decal over their rear window. Sometimes it's half American-half Confederate with a bald eagle in the center.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:31
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basically lol at looking at this election and those turnout graphs and saying 'well the democrats should just abandon their base to chase marginal voters - what are they going to do, vote for the republicans?'guts and bolts posted:Basic message discipline and also you know hateful nonsense racism haha That's fair, there's been some people saying things like 'don't talk about race' or 'give those whiny anti-trump protesters cookies so they shut up' who I'm mainly directed at. I'm on edge because I can feel the pull toward abandoning minorities to reflexively focus on white concerns coming out in these post-mortem conversations and it worries me because minorities are going to be taking Trump on the chin. Liberals, minorities and poor people are the three often-overlapping legs of the left-wing coalition and you can appeal to all of them in a positive way.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:32
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Many of the people I follow on Twitter lay 100% of the blame on sexism and bigotry while simultaneously saying an old white man would've had an even lower chance of winning. Literally no blame is on Hillary's piss poor outreach to the working class or their own elitism.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:32
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Corky Romanovsky posted:Apparently it was just misogyny that cost Hillary the election. The grassroots level of the party is basically an Army of Lena Dunham's who have minimal loan debt and whose parents subsidize their gentrified downtown housing. These people believe that social issues are the most important thing in the world because they don't have to literally worry every second of every day about their financial situation and when you try to explain that your reasons for maybe not agreeing are because you emphasize other important issues, you get called a woman-hating racist. They're letting the base level of their party message be controlled by an Army of people who are still on their parents' cellphone plans.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:35
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  quote:Frank went through every one of hundreds of opinion pieces published in the Washington Post on Sanders and Hillary Clinton, his rival for the Democratic nomination for president, during primary season, from January to May 2016, and found a stark disparity in coverage. Sanders pieces took a negative tone by a ratio of 5 to 1, whereas opinion pieces on Clinton were about evenly split between favorable and unfavorable.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:37
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sportsgenius86 posted:The grassroots level of the party is basically an Army of Lena Dunham's who have minimal loan debt and whose parents subsidize their gentrified downtown housing. These people believe that social issues are the most important thing in the world because they don't have to literally worry every second of every day about their financial situation and when you try to explain that your reasons for maybe not agreeing are because you emphasize other important issues, you get called a woman-hating racist. see dumbass posts like this when millennials are struggling more during this economy than any other generation and a ton of them went for bernie is why nothing's going to change in 2018 and very well might not in 2020 or 2024
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Nov 10, 2016 16:37
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In 2020 the Democrats should ignore class and focus on identity politics, because that is what their corporate masters want.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:38
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Fiction posted:see dumbass posts like this when millennials are struggling more during this economy than any other generation and a ton of them went for bernie is why nothing's going to change in 2018 and very well might not in 2020 or 2024 It's not a dumbass post and he's 100% correct.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:38
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Goatman Sacks posted:It's going to be funny in 8 to 12 years when the north is the pro-racist section of the country and the south isn't. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-republicans-more-racist-than-white-democrats/ LoL if you think the south is the only racist portion of the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8yiYCHMAlM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT1Zq0Et4ts
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Nov 10, 2016 16:39
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Third World Reggin posted:http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-republicans-more-racist-than-white-democrats/ Have you heard a little city on the liberal coast called Los Angeles?
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Nov 10, 2016 16:42
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:It's not a dumbass post and he's 100% correct. Don't you have some woman's womb to invade? Political season is over luigi, gently caress off back to the vatican
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Nov 10, 2016 16:43
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Fiction posted:see dumbass posts like this when millennials are struggling more during this economy than any other generation and a ton of them went for bernie is why nothing's going to change in 2018 and very well might not in 2020 or 2024 I never said millenials weren't struggling. A lot of them are. The ones that are don't happen to be the ones driving the grassroots effort for the party right now because they were pushed out by the people I'm talking about.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:44
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Venom Snake posted:Hello and welcome to the Venom "Punished" Snake autopsy thread were I attempt to lay out what went wrong. I make this post by popular request. I am 100% aware I am going to get brutally owned shortly after making this post Good post, thanks.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:43
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:It's not a dumbass post and he's 100% correct. No he's not lol. Think beyond your little internet bubble for once in your life pls
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Nov 10, 2016 16:44
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Fiction posted:see dumbass posts like this when millennials are struggling more during this economy than any other generation and a ton of them went for bernie is why nothing's going to change in 2018 and very well might not in 2020 or 2024 The people he's referring to didn't go for Bernie. Most of them voted for Hillary in the primary and complained about Bernie Bros in their spare time.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:44
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:The people he's referring to didn't go for Bernie. Most of them voted for Hillary in the primary and complained about Bernie Bros in their spare time. I'm saying they aren't a significant portion of the electorate, primary or otherwise.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:45
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sportsgenius86 posted:The grassroots level of the party is basically an Army of Lena Dunham's who have minimal loan debt and whose parents subsidize their gentrified downtown housing. These people believe that social issues are the most important thing in the world because they don't have to literally worry every second of every day about their financial situation and when you try to explain that your reasons for maybe not agreeing are because you emphasize other important issues, you get called a woman-hating racist. This relates to the BookFace image post "If you voted for Trump, tell your LGBT, Muslim, women, etc. friends why they don't matter." When I mentioned that the wording may be a bit harsh, and that someone may have voted for Trump because they prioritized another issue ahead of those groups, their response only imagined that other issue was "gently caress the system". It may have been that reason for many, but...  This person is a Redditor fwiw
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Nov 10, 2016 16:47
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mrmcd posted:Honestly I think people are overplaying the "Academic Left jargon poisoned us against working class voters" a bit. Sure a lot of people roll their eyes or don't like Lena Dunham but at the end of the day: Not really, SJW culture plays into the article posted a couple pages ago by that blog poster who predicted a Trump victory back in January. You can claim it's just a very small minority (even though it's pretty common on college campuses these days), but it feeds into the entitled upper class narrative that the article talked about, and thanks to the internet, millions of people can see that behavior, you don't have to be enrolled at Oberlin to witness it. This is why the alt-right became a thing and why they intentionally try to provoke people into silencing them, which gives them martyr points for Trump voters.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:46
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Acelerion posted:Clinton was a poo poo candidate who had no vision for America other than her personal desire to be president. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
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Nov 10, 2016 16:48
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Fiction posted:I'm saying they aren't a significant portion of the electorate, primary or otherwise. They don't have to be a significant portion of the electorate to be loud and obnoxious enough to dictate the perception many people have of it.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:48
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Yeah jimrob and the family trying to scrape by on 24000 a year were really all over those liberal campuses and on twitter and decided to not vote for Hillary because of SJWs You turd
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Nov 10, 2016 16:50
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sportsgenius86 posted:The grassroots level of the party is basically an Army of Lena Dunham's who have minimal loan debt and whose parents subsidize their gentrified downtown housing. These people believe that social issues are the most important thing in the world because they don't have to literally worry every second of every day about their financial situation and when you try to explain that your reasons for maybe not agreeing are because you emphasize other important issues, you get called a woman-hating racist. I'm worried that this is correct and it filtered up, in various forms, to the top of the Clinton campaign, which massively failed to make arguments that would have supplanted their ultimately completely worthless GOTV campaign. There's a lot to dissect here.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:50
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Mister Fister posted:Not really, SJW culture plays into the article posted a couple pages ago by that blog poster who predicted a Trump victory back in January. You can claim it's just a very small minority (even though it's pretty common on college campuses these days), but it feeds into the entitled upper class narrative that the article talked about, and thanks to the internet, millions of people can see that behavior, you don't have to be enrolled at Oberlin to witness it. This is why the alt-right became a thing and why they intentionally try to provoke people into silencing them, which gives them martyr points for Trump voters. Mister Fister, most people don't actually care about PC Gone Wrong. Your candidate won with a minority of the popular vote in an election where less than 30% of the population turned out. Just gently caress off with this poo poo. You're never going to live in an America where you can get away with bald racism anymore among your peers, whether or not Trump got elected.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:50
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cool she maybe should have tried talking about these things at some point instead of making every appearance on tv and every debate about her opponent
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Nov 10, 2016 16:52
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