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Fansy posted:Trump isn't planning on infrastructure spending. Just tax subsidies for private companies. Congress will love it. Then they'll be reeling when midterms come around and a bunch of swing voters who put Trump in office will feel betrayed.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:14
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Spaced God posted:Sonic the Hedgehog becomes the new president https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grqwh9jgdOM
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Nov 10, 2016 23:16
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I can't believe the first female president is going to be Ivanka Trump
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Nov 10, 2016 23:16
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BarbarianElephant posted:America *is* great on the coasts. It's prosperous and powerful and innovative. Life is good. Don't the people who live in the interior want some of that? Why are they all "We hate the west/east coast elites!" rather than "How can we have that here?" No, America is not great on the coasts. It's still racist as poo poo, even in solid blue territory. It's still monstrous to its poor. America is a pretty great place to live if you're in a position of privilege, but that's not a geographical thing.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:15
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Crain posted:I'm still not really all in on getting back into thinking about, talking about, and watching politics again. This isn't just some "Woe is me, we shall now descend into the abyss" whine, although trying to get past that fear is part of it. I'm just having trouble approaching this situation in a manner that might be constructive. But it seems a lot of people do not have that hang up here. Good post. I think this thread should get its poo poo together in a couple weeks but until then the circular firing squad with the occasional smug Trumpist doesn't make for compelling content.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:15
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BarbarianElephant posted:America *is* great on the coasts. It's prosperous and powerful and innovative. Life is good. Don't the people who live in the interior want some of that? Why are they all "We hate the west/east coast elites!" rather than "How can we have that here?" Because they have been yelling at the coasts for years about needing help and being unhappy with their situation and all they got was poo poo on. Like President Obama said: Barack Obama posted:You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. It's no surprise then when they decide to vote for the guy who says he will blow it all up. A lot of hay was made when that article came out that said his supporters don't actually believe he will do what he says but are voting for him anyway, however it makes sense in a perverse way. They want the elites to suffer even if they know it won't improve their situation.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:15
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BarbarianElephant posted:How about all of it? They have control over the whole government so it should all go through fairly smoothly. Not all Republicans believe the same thing. Some even have radically divergent views from other Republicans and are only Republicans because they are scared of Democrats.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:16
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Fojar38 posted:Then they'll be reeling when midterms come around and a bunch of swing voters who put Drumpf in office will feel betrayed. It will be 2012 all over again!
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Nov 10, 2016 23:17
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Trabisnikof posted:
Can you stop doing this stupid bullshit....
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Nov 10, 2016 23:17
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PKJC posted:Nahh, "Bash the fash" would be a winning campaign ad imo It's almost like white liberals and white conservatives have something in common, something they would both like to protect and keep intact that they benefit from... Can't put my finger on it though. Xae posted:Like it is not a sizeable portion of the progressive base has the mentality of a 12 year old girl and needs to be ~~~iNsPiReD~~~~ to perform their civic duty. Catering to white fragility is how we got here.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:16
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Svartvit posted:It will be 2012 all over again! 2010 in reverse, ideally.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:17
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Paradoxish posted:No, America is not great on the coasts. It's still racist as poo poo, even in solid blue territory. It's still monstrous to its poor. America is a pretty great place to live if you're in a position of privilege, but that's not a geographical thing. if hillary won she would have helped the po-bahahahaha I can't say that with a straight face 
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Nov 10, 2016 23:17
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PKJC posted:Nahh, "Bash the fash" would be a winning campaign ad imo Is it completely a coincidence that the candidate that embraced economic populism--even if it was a complete con--won Obama's working class rural districts? Is it a coincidence that the candidate who abandoned it lost votes in urban communities? Economic populism isn't the strict domain of the white intelligentsia. Flip Yr Wig fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 23:18
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Fansy posted:Trump isn't planning on infrastructure spending. Just tax subsidies for private companies. Congress will love it. You trigged me with 'defense' spending. You can bet that military spending in the new Trump era will not be for 'defense' (not that it ever has been).
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Nov 10, 2016 23:17
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Fojar38 posted:Not all Republicans believe the same thing. Some even have radically divergent views from other Republicans and are only Republicans because they are scared of Democrats. They are in lock step on some issues, like banning abortion and repealing Obamacare. They will probably start there. Along with the Wall to keep Trump busy.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:18
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BarbarianElephant posted:They are in lock step on some issues, like banning abortion and repealing Obamacare. They will probably start there. Along with the Wall to keep Trump busy. Libertarians don't care about abortion and and tons of Conservatives have constituencies that are old/poorthat would get upset real quick if the ACA was repealed even if they don't know it yet.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:20
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Hell, I agree that the people who stayed home deserve part of the blame, but that doesn't really get us anywhere. There's no winning political strategy that's built around shaming people for their vote. If you're trying to win elections, you need to get people to get to the loving polling place. Politicians can control what they say and who they try to appeal to, but they cannot literally force their base into the booth. There are two separate conversations to be had here, some of us are sick of people trying to avoid feeling guilty and face up to the fact that the people who didn't go out and vote are literally hurting pretty much every minority in this country. Talking about strategy in the next election is a separate deal from shouting down people who insist there's nothing to blame in the people who didn't vote against bigotry. Anyone who thinks it isn't at minimum a tacit approval of bigotry doesn't deserve to have their voice heard by minorities anyways.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:20
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I don't think the pivot should be "let's coddle the racist and say his racism is okay" and I really hope no one in this thread thinks it should be. But should we be reaching out to voters in these poo poo areas and giving them concrete paths to improving their lives? I think so. The messaging should be "everyone having trouble deserves help, regardless of race, creed, color." Minority communities face unique problems and we shouldn't forget that. But if you can get a white racist guy to vote for someone who pledges to improve their lives AS WELL AS the lives of minority communities around him, that starts an interaction that halts the spread of racism and hate.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:22
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My Linux Rig posted:What are you talking about? Things are great in the red states, we don't have the property cost issues or crime issues you guys have good analysis, bitcoin ghost
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Nov 10, 2016 23:21
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Fojar38 posted:Libertarians don't care about abortion and and tons of Conservatives have constituencies that are old/poorthat would get upset real quick if the ACA was repealed even if they don't know it yet. If Trump can make good on his promises about the economy and provide a suitable replacement for the ACA, he can build all the drat walls he wants because he will go down as a great US President.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:23
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With this post-election surge in ACA registration it's going to be harder to make it go away. There's a reason that people have held up the "get your government hands off my medicare" signs.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:24
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Fojar38 posted:Libertarians don't care about abortion and and tons of Conservatives have constituencies that are old/poorthat would get upset real quick if the ACA was repealed even if they don't know it yet. Oddly enough, libertarians tend to be against abortion. Why? Who knows? The Republicans do not give a flying gently caress about their constituents who are about to lose coverage. If they did, they would have supported it the first time.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:23
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Sure, but if that productive work won't pass because "we don't want big government doing X" but the wall will pass because "we want a wall", then gently caress it, build the wall. Useless Keynesian boondoggle is better than no spending at all. If a basic infrastructural plan can't pass, neither can a thought experiment.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:24
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I wonder if at this point the ACA perhaps has the institutional inertia to not get repealed. The insurance companies have spent enormous amounts of money accommodating the infrastructure necessary to implement it, the GOP can't (hahaha of course they can but let's stay positive) just rip away pre-existing condition coverage, at least without massive popular outcry, and rich white people will see their rates go up as healthy young people with insurance through the exchanges all leave the risk pool. I'm at least convinced that repealing the ACA is not a DAY ONE, stroke-of-the-pen type thing.
sit on my Facebook fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 23:26
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BarbarianElephant posted:Oddly enough, libertarians tend to be against abortion. Why? Who knows? Almost as if they only care about things that affect them personally
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Nov 10, 2016 23:26
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BarbarianElephant posted:Oddly enough, libertarians tend to be against abortion. Why? Who knows? the venn-diagram of redpillers and libertarians is very close to a circle
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Nov 10, 2016 23:26
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Note: I'm not saying that bad and lovely legislation isn't going to pass in the next 2 years, but there are still checks on power even with control of all branches of government, both seen and unseen. The founders were just as terrified of President Trump as we are.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:27
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disjoe posted:I don't think the pivot should be "let's coddle the racist and say his racism is okay" and I really hope no one in this thread thinks it should be. And they won't. They will poo poo on a plate if it means minorities have to eat it too. They literally only want good poo poo for themselves, and if they have to share it they see it as less they should have and deserve to have. And its not just the rural whites, but the suburban whites with higher than median income as well. They are doing well and do not want others that are not like them to do well. Period.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:27
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PKJC posted:There are two separate conversations to be had here, some of us are sick of people trying to avoid feeling guilty and face up to the fact that the people who didn't go out and vote are literally hurting pretty much every minority in this country. Talking about strategy in the next election is a separate deal from shouting down people who insist there's nothing to blame in the people who didn't vote against bigotry. Anyone who thinks it isn't at minimum a tacit approval of bigotry doesn't deserve to have their voice heard by minorities anyways. The thing is, we need to develop a new leftist coalition that ropes in standard American liberals, like, yesterday. There's a lot of recrimination to be had by both sides, and some legitimate grievances. But they don't loving matter any more, not one bit. A fascist is in the White House, and his party owns every lever of governmental power. Ain't no loving time for the blame game, because the new party needs to get to work IMMEDIATELY.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:28
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:but theres a real video of someone getting beaten up for voting for trump.....meh...kill racist scum tbh http://www.snopes.com/black-mob-beats-white-man-for-voting-trump/
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Nov 10, 2016 23:27
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https://twitter.com/govhowarddean/status/796838538641833990
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Nov 10, 2016 23:27
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My facebook feed is literally three things today
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Nov 10, 2016 23:27
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PKJC posted:There are two separate conversations to be had here, some of us are sick of people trying to avoid feeling guilty and face up to the fact that the people who didn't go out and vote are literally hurting pretty much every minority in this country. quote:Talking about strategy in the next election is a separate deal from shouting down people who insist there's nothing to blame in the people who didn't vote against bigotry. Anyone who thinks it isn't at minimum a tacit approval of bigotry doesn't deserve to have their voice heard by minorities anyways.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:28
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Fojar38 posted:The founders were just as terrified of President Trump as we are. I've always believed that Trump is a lot closer to the founding fathers than basically anyone else in politics right now. The founding fathers were businessmen, scientists, artisans, farmers, etc. not career politicians and yes men.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:29
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PKJC posted:Nahh, "Bash the fash" would be a winning campaign ad imo If Marx is to be believed, progress was never meant to be built on feeling bad for others. It was meant to be built on a predatory pursuit of one's class identity in concert with others, also driven entirely by radical selfishness. That's a pretty grim thing, when you think about it, and open to lots of abuse. Maybe he was right.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:30
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ACA is the #1 a large portion of the GOP wants gone within the first week. If Trump repeals it he is going to anger a lot of his base. Will be interesting to see what happens
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Nov 10, 2016 23:29
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Once I got woke and realized that there are people living out lives just short of an apocalyptic scenario in some rural areas it makes a lot of sense why things like pledging to destroy the ACA resonates with some people. We've all seen the premium increases which directly or indirectly, correctly or incorrectly correlated to the ACA. Of course those with a deeper understanding know that's not really on the ACA. I want to obliterate the GOP at the root, and i think I finally see the path to it.r
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Nov 10, 2016 23:30
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Here's my Canadian hot take based on an interested outsider's perspective: Folks are too pissed off these days to focus on the greater good. I'm p sure most people who voted Trump would be okay with gay marriage and Healthcare and reproductive rights. Even the most hardcore right-winger might be persuaded to live and let live on some of these issues. Problem was the whole "deplorables" mistake put them on the defensive and consolidated the opposition. See, I'm liberal as all get-out but I found the Democrat campaign to be pretty cloyingly moralistic. Hillary clung to her ersatz high horse, quoting Michelle Obama even as she slung mud with both hands. She wrestled with the pig and came out filthy. "Privilege" is a useful and interesting concept but it's abused as an all or nothing affair. Thing is, privilege exists on a spectrum and in different ways. A poor white rural family might not get stop-and-frisked, but they probably have a hard time making ends meet and might not have insurance. A wealthy black doctor's family might be well taken care of and well-off, but might be pulled over by a racist cop cause their Audi is suspiciously nice. Both have legitimate grievances against the system and both could justifiably lay blame on someone else for their problems. So, it's not really about coddling racists. It's just about trying to foster some understanding. Otherwise you might as well just split into Democratia and Republistan and be done with it. Tldr y'all make me sad sometimes. Canada is by no means perfect but at least our elections are boring.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:29
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Bhaal posted:I don't know why I keep containing my urge to tell the 2nd group to eat poo poo and die hungry. Because Trump is already retracting all the poo poo that made them vote for him and backing down on his more extreme rhetoric. His campaign just removed the Muslim ban from his website for example. Doredrin posted:I've always believed that Trump is a lot closer to the founding fathers than basically anyone else in politics right now. The founding fathers were businessmen, scientists, artisans, farmers, etc. not career politicians and yes men. But they were still afraid of a demagogue loving everything up, the difficulty of getting poo poo done that we all resented during the Obama years is a feature, not a bug.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:30
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Bhaal posted:My facebook feed is literally three things today Because you don't care enough to actually risk even a fraction of what minorities have to risk everyday. And its why we are where we are now.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:32
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