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straight up brolic posted:The liberal infighting is interesting but not at all productive. We need to recognize the failures of the past, but only in so far as we can use them as a tool for the future. Pointing fingers is not an end in itself, it's just a means of self-congratulation. The failure of our past is that we didn't realize sooner that this nation was beyond saving.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:49
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I read a WaPo summary, that mentioned Jose Antonio Vargas, the "most prominent undocumented immigrant." Is there anything stopping him from going through the process and becoming a documented citizen? If he went to an ICE office and said "hi, I've been living here undocumented for years but now want to become a citizen. How do I do that?", is there a system for him or does get get arrested and deported on the spot?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:48
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straight up brolic posted:The liberal infighting is interesting but not at all productive. We need to recognize the failures of the past, but only in so far as we can use them as a tool for the future. Pointing fingers is not an end in itself, it's just a means of self-congratulation. This is wrong. There must be a strong tension between the left base and corporate democrats and it has to be able to be enforced in primaries of the people who are responsible for the decisions that lead to Trump winning and any Dems who collaborate with him if the party is going to be successful moving forward. The right was way ahead of us on this.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:50
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Fojar38 posted:Once it becomes apparent that this isn't literally the apocalypse we'll be back to our regular sarcastic arsehole selves. Honestly that's sort of where I am now. This is gonna suck royally for a lot of people, but the country will survive, and now the Republicans have to put up and shut up, with the world's most undeservedly successful conman at their helm. I'm not certain the party can survive the stresses of actually attempting to govern, and as a card-carrying member of the disloyal opposition, I have the bittersweet pleasure of being able to sit passively by and laugh at them the entire time.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:49
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Quorum posted:Well, to be honest most of the centralization of power I'm thinking of has come mostly in two phases-- during the New Deal and its expansion of executive departments, and during the last eight years with its unprecedented failure of legislative leadership. Obama had to take actions which were technically within the power of the executive but were traditionally shunned, or else witness government fail completely. It's to his credit that he didn't do so more, honestly, poo poo like the trillion dollar coin or whatever would have been disasters. There was also a shift with the Theodore Roosevelt administration and his reinterpretation of the constitutional powers of the presidency (It used to be "the president can't do anything that the constitution doesn't explicitly say they can do" but he interpreted it as "the president can do whatever isn't expressly forbidden by the constitution.") But I still think that the Civil War was the "starting point" of when executive power became a big deal, mostly because the country literally fell apart.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:50
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kartikeya posted:A woman being criticized for being too passive and too aggressive at the exact same time? This is not a thing that any woman has ever seen before ever, nope. Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I read a WaPo summary, that mentioned Jose Antonio Vargas, the "most prominent undocumented immigrant." Is there anything stopping him from going through the process and becoming a documented citizen? If he went to an ICE office and said "hi, I've been living here undocumented for years but now want to become a citizen. How do I do that?", is there a system for him or does get get arrested and deported on the spot?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:51
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mcmagic posted:This is wrong. There must be a strong tension between the left base and corporate democrats and it has to be able to be enforced in primaries of the people who are responsible for the decisions that lead to Trump winning and any Dems who collaborate with him if the party is going to be successful moving forward. The right was way ahead of us on this.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:50
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I read a WaPo summary, that mentioned Jose Antonio Vargas, the "most prominent undocumented immigrant." Is there anything stopping him from going through the process and becoming a documented citizen? If he went to an ICE office and said "hi, I've been living here undocumented for years but now want to become a citizen. How do I do that?", is there a system for him or does get get arrested and deported on the spot? And this point he'll be lucky he isn't shot and his head put on a spike on the border.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:52
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straight up brolic posted:You are literally talking about how we can use the failures of the past to better the future. Except I think the infighting that is going to go on is good and necessary. It's called accountability.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:52
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Quorum posted:Honestly that's sort of where I am now. This is gonna suck royally for a lot of people, but the country will survive, and now the Republicans have to put up and shut up, with the world's most undeservedly successful conman at their helm. I'm not certain the party can survive the stresses of actually attempting to govern, and as a card-carrying member of the disloyal opposition, I have the bittersweet pleasure of being able to sit passively by and laugh at them the entire time. Like I've been saying since yesterday, campaigning is easy, governing is hard, and Trump is about to learn that the same way Obama did in 2008. Honestly considering how old and unhealthy he is I wonder if he'll actually be able to physically handle the stress of the presidency. He has no idea what he's in for.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:52
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disjoe posted:I don't think the pivot should be "let's coddle the racist and say his racism is okay" and I really hope no one in this thread thinks it should be. Man the chick in your avatar is probably so psyched right now. Do you think she ever stopped making that face?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:54
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Quorum posted:Honestly that's sort of where I am now. This is gonna suck royally for a lot of people, but the country will survive, and now the Republicans have to put up and shut up, with the world's most undeservedly successful conman at their helm. I'm not certain the party can survive the stresses of actually attempting to govern, and as a card-carrying member of the disloyal opposition, I have the bittersweet pleasure of being able to sit passively by and laugh at them the entire time. Don't sit passively. Get as active as you can to protect the people they're coming after. Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:you act like this critique is completely unique to hillary being a woman and not a lot of politicians. Playing the victim doesn't get you elected either. It's a particular thing that happens to women all the time that women are very familiar with. How about criticizing Hillary without resorting to misogynistic dog-whistles? I'm pretty sure we can do that, it's really easy, lots of people have managed so far.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:54
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Also if anyone is buying USPOL November avatars for thread regulars a corncob is an excellent choice.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:54
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Deified Data posted:Man the chick in your avatar is probably so psyched right now. Do you think she ever stopped making that face? Idk but I bet the baby is making the same face Main Paineframe posted:What happens when a white racist guy instead prefers to vote for people who pledges to improve their lives but not the lives of minority communities? What happens when a white racist guy would rather vote against people who pledge to improve the lives of minority communities even if they're also pledging to improve the lives of white people? This is how we end up with welfare recipients who vote to repeal welfare because, although it was really helpful to them when they needed it, they've heard that a lot of black people use welfare too and therefore it needs to go. Like I said, those guys exist, but you have to educate them and not leave them to rot, because some will change. And just one changed mind means one more vote for progress.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:55
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straight up brolic posted:When will we stop feeling like poo poo It'll happen. Shock and despair fade, mostly. The next four years will be characterized by twinges of shame and horror as Trump sets fire to piece after piece of the Obama legacy, mingled with sadistic glee as major portions of the Republican agenda collapse under their own weight (hopefully). Look forward to a blossoming of vaguely left-wing comedy; Samantha Bee is one to watch moving forward, as is Colbert as always. Being legitimately in the wilderness seems to be good for them, even if it's arguably mostly destructive for the opposition party more generally. Fojar38 posted:There was also a shift with the Theodore Roosevelt administration and his reinterpretation of the constitutional powers of the presidency (It used to be "the president can't do anything that the constitution doesn't explicitly say they can do" but he interpreted it as "the president can do whatever isn't expressly forbidden by the constitution.") Yeah TR did a lot of stuff that profoundly changed interpretations of the Constitution in general, forerunners of more expansive readings of the Constitution today. That's what I mean-- I don't think that the expansion of executive power historically has been a mistake, far from it. Without that expansion we'd not have implemented a lot of programs or policies that we take for granted today. But now we are going to see how it can backfire, and test the remaining checks and balances (and the human decency of the Republicans controlling them  ).
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Nov 10, 2016 23:55
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Quorum posted:Honestly that's sort of where I am now. This is gonna suck royally for a lot of people, but the country will survive, and now the Republicans have to put up and shut up, with the world's most undeservedly successful conman at their helm. I'm not certain the party can survive the stresses of actually attempting to govern, and as a card-carrying member of the disloyal opposition, I have the bittersweet pleasure of being able to sit passively by and laugh at them the entire time. This would be true for any terrible elections up until this point, but keep in mind that Trump does not listen to advice and that he believes himself to be the smartest person in the room, and is unable to back down after being challenged. Also the imminent defeat of efforts to combat climate change, which is turning out to be worse than we thought (that is, we're seeing things at 1.5C that we thought would first appear well into the future.) The old advice to pick yourself up and keep fighting assumes that there will be another day. There is an extremely high chance that there is not going to be another day.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:56
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PKJC posted:Very simple, removing the idea that it's permissible for those people to live in complacency and pretend they didn't do something horrible. Every bit of bigotry that is allowed to lie passively, even the tacit approval of people who sat at home, contributes to the larger environment of hatred and oppression against minorities. You can fix bigotry by voting and you can also fix it by not staying quiet about bigotry just because it isn't wearing a hood or dragging someone behind a truck.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:57
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Main Paineframe posted:What happens when a white racist guy instead prefers to vote for people who pledges to improve their lives but not the lives of minority communities? What happens when a white racist guy would rather vote against people who pledge to improve the lives of minority communities even if they're also pledging to improve the lives of white people? This is how we end up with welfare recipients who vote to repeal welfare because, although it was really helpful to them when they needed it, they've heard that a lot of black people use welfare too and therefore it needs to go. By doing the things that improve the lives of both communites obviously. A new labor movement that has to include minorities this time. The number of people onboard should drwarf the people who would gently caress themselves just to make somebody elses life worse.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:57
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kartikeya posted:Don't sit passively. Get as active as you can to protect the people they're coming after. Oh certainly. My city just had a very productive and successful election-- new, young, progressive mayor to drive out the old corrupt guy, mostly-new council, basically entirely-new school board. It's a good time for me to get involved in local activism, and since it's the capital, it's fairly easy to advocate for state-level changes, too, especially since we've a gubernatorial election coming up which will determine who controls the governor's mansion come redistricting time.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:59
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Fojar38 posted:I'm white and alright! Good for you, dude. Meanwhile I'm working with my family members to scrounge up the ~$700 it takes to become a citizen so we can make sure several of my aunts, uncles, and cousins don't get deported by Trumps task force.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:00
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Trump is being ridiculously magnanimous and McConnell is signalling hard that he's not going to kill the filibuster. What is going on I was promised an apocalypse quote:Trump was asked if he would ask Congress to ban Muslims from entering the country, a proposal Trump floated on the campaign trail. But Trump ignored the question, said "thank you, everybody" and walked away.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:59
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Even better, Canadian 
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Nov 11, 2016 00:01
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Dapper_Swindler posted:If he honestly did do stuff like that, and ended up just being a really cunty Eishower republican, id be ok with that. but i just dont know. It be funny if he has to beg the dems for it.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:00
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Quorum posted:Oh certainly. My city just had a very productive and successful election-- new, young, progressive mayor to drive out the old corrupt guy, mostly-new council, basically entirely-new school board. It's a good time for me to get involved in local activism, and since it's the capital, it's fairly easy to advocate for state-level changes, too, especially since we've a gubernatorial election coming up which will determine who controls the governor's mansion come redistricting time. What resources have you used to start engaging in local activism? I feel strongly motivated but a little overwhelmed and it's hard to know what is the most effective means of participation when it's not election season.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:01
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twodot posted:I don't even understand what this means. Of course it's permissible, there isn't like a law of physics that stops people from being complacent. I don't have a problem with calling out bigotry, my issue is that you seem to think you have some fundamental authority to convince people who disagree with you about what bigotry is. People who didn't vote thought it was a good idea, all you insisting that it's bigotry does is tell them that bigotry is apparently a good idea. someone no one actually knows posted:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. The contention here is that maybe 'good' people that do nothing when faced with this kind of thing aren't actually terribly good people, and maybe we shouldn't let them pretend they are.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:02
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Crowsbeak posted:It be funny if he has to beg the dems for it. Mark my words the Democrats are going to be more important in Congress than everyone thinks they will be. They will be tipping the scales not infrequently when Trump clashes with Congress.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:02
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Too Shy Guy posted:Trump is being ridiculously magnanimous and McConnell is signalling hard that he's not going to kill the filibuster. Holy poo poo McConnell Too bad I have zero faith in Schumer to do anything right
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Nov 11, 2016 00:02
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Too Shy Guy posted:Trump is being ridiculously magnanimous and McConnell is signalling hard that he's not going to kill the filibuster. lol, I think Mitch smartly realized that they still need gridlock to blame Dems for something
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Nov 11, 2016 00:03
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Too Shy Guy posted:Trump is being ridiculously magnanimous and McConnell is signalling hard that he's not going to kill the filibuster. Trump is being magnanimous because his post-coital glow hasn't even started to recede yet. Let's check back with president elect Trump in ~2 weeks and see how we feel about the word "magnanimous"
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Nov 11, 2016 00:02
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Too Shy Guy posted:Trump is being ridiculously magnanimous and McConnell is signalling hard that he's not going to kill the filibuster. The GOP isn't scared of big mean liberals anymore and it's easier to be magnanimous from a position of power.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:03
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Is anyone familiar with Progressive Democrats of America or similar groups that would be good places to get involved in electing Neo Bernie in four years?
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Nov 11, 2016 00:04
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PerniciousKnid posted:Is anyone familiar with Progressive Democrats of America or similar groups that would be good places to get involved in electing Neo Bernie in four years?
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Nov 11, 2016 00:07
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Scent of Worf posted:https://twitter.com/pgourevitch/status/796835973854351364 Haha look at the time! It's Republican O'Clock so it's time we started respecting the office of the president again!
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Nov 11, 2016 00:08
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HorseRenoir posted:lol, I think Mitch smartly realized that they still need gridlock to blame Dems for something Yep, they need a foe because if they have 100% control they're 100% responsible
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Nov 11, 2016 00:08
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HorseRenoir posted:lol, I think Mitch smartly realized that they still need gridlock to blame Dems for something Pretty much and if he has to control the Dems that makes him more powerful in the Trump/House/Senate negotiations.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:08
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"Another white liberal throwing coloreds under the bus. You see, they're the real racists bec-" 
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Nov 11, 2016 00:10
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Every few hours it hits me again that Donald loving Trump is going to be President for four years and I hate everything. I'm so worried that eventually I'll get used to it and stop caring.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:11
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Tulsi Gabbard is someone to root for, but she's probably too young
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Nov 11, 2016 00:12
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disjoe posted:Yep, they need a foe because if they have 100% control they're 100% responsible lol no they're not they'll just hop down the george w bush memory hole
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Nov 11, 2016 00:14
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Potato Salad posted:"Another white liberal throwing coloreds under the bus. You see, they're the real racists bec-" They aren't the real racists because there's lots of those but there are a ton of racist white liberals willing to sell minorities down the river, yes. I'd call that pretty real.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:13
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