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kartikeya posted:Oh, I'm not embarrassed for this dumb forum, I'm embarrassed because these are people claiming to be progressives while running hard for the perceived safety of 'let's only care about white dudes'. A lot of them are fellow Bernie supporters. Dude, that's been an argument from Bernie supporters from Day 1. Why are you suddenly surprised by this now?
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Nov 11, 2016 01:22
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Who What Now posted:Everyone who doesn't want to gently caress all minorities forever already voted for Clinton. So no, not really. Pretty much. Who What Now posted:Dude, that's been an argument from Bernie supporters from Day 1. Why are you suddenly surprised by this now? Not remotely surprised. Just embarrassed. EDIT: for clarification, like the kind of embarrassment you get when someone just keeps taking a giant dump on the floor, over and over again, while screaming about how that bitch Hillary was the worst candidate of all time for not turning out the base no I didn't vote for her why do you ask? That kind. kartikeya fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 01:24
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Who What Now posted:Dude, that's been an argument from Bernie supporters from Day 1. Why are you suddenly surprised by this now?
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Nov 11, 2016 01:24
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kartikeya posted:Oh, I'm not embarrassed for this dumb forum, I'm embarrassed because these are people claiming to be progressives while running hard for the perceived safety of 'let's only care about white dudes'. A lot of them are fellow Bernie supporters. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2016 01:25
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disjoe posted:I just don't agree with that. Sadly, what you are offering as an answer -- lets cotinue growing our economy while preserving human dignity -- was basically the gist of HRC's second debate 
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Nov 11, 2016 01:25
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disjoe posted:I just don't agree with that. This election was literally "Status Quo and Incremental Progress" vs "gently caress All Minorities Forever". Everyone who didn't vote for the former approves of, or at best doesn't care about, the latter. And silence is tacit approval of bigotry. This election conclusively proved that the majority of this nation simply does not care about the lives of minorities of any kind, and will gladly see them all dead either purposefully or through apathy. So you can disagree, but the reality is pretty goddamn conclusive. And yes, Ken Bone is probably irredeemable. I'm sorry that your meme superstar turned out to be just another pile of burning garbage.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:26
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Fraction Jackson posted:If you believe that we can't do both, then it's basically over and we can pack the party up right now, and America with it. She mentioned economics fairly often. It just didn't get much coverage in the media, which preferred to devote airtime and article space to Trump's antics and EMAILS rather than actual policy proposals.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:29
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sit on my Facebook posted:What resources have you used to start engaging in local activism? I feel strongly motivated but a little overwhelmed and it's hard to know what is the most effective means of participation when it's not election season. Honestly I'm just going based on organizations I've already been involved with; I favor very focused issues-based advocacy (here in Richmond, people like the James River Association, or groups specifically fighting for a local minimum wage increase) just because I find those get distracted and bogged down in circular firing squads less easily than broader progressive groups. You might try just googling "<your city here> organizing" and seeing if that turns up any organizations; even if you don't go out and pound the streets with them, making contacts there can help you find other groups fighting for things you're passionate about.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:30
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Who What Now posted:And yes, Ken Bone is probably irredeemable. I'm sorry that your meme superstar turned out to be just another pile of burning garbage. A) no need for hostility B) I was just using him as an illustration of the kind of voter you could win over with a more clear, positive economic message directed to impoverished areas (which includes areas with large minority populations!).
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Nov 11, 2016 01:31
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Who What Now posted:This election was literally "Status Quo and Incremental Progress" vs "gently caress All Minorities Forever". Everyone who didn't vote for the former approves of, or at best doesn't care about, the latter. And silence is tacit approval of bigotry. This election conclusively proved that the majority of this nation simply does not care about the lives of minorities of any kind, and will gladly see them all dead either purposefully or through apathy. Except that it's not? Your entire argument lies on the premise that 'not voting for Clinton' is tantamount to 'racism' which is ludicrous and not how humans work. Your argument only gets more bizarre after that.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:30
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Nevvy Z posted:Yeah. A friend in Ormewood park had her dog shot in her backyard two years ago 
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Nov 11, 2016 01:30
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My STRONG TAKE is that, in hindsight, Trump was an inevitability. Boomers and their children grew up during an economic bubble when the American economy was the only one unscathed by war, creating untenable salaries and suburban communities. As globalization and urbanization turned more and more of those areas into ghost towns, how exactly would Bernie have competed? Trump was literally promising them all their jobs back by using easy scapegoats like NAFTA (nevermind that automation really started happening during the same time) The really hosed up thing is that the deepest red areas will be hurt the most by a Trump administration. Accelerationism is pretty much the only way forward, with economic ruin by horrific tax and regulatory policy on one side and climate change induced famine and flooding related displacement on the other (reminder that New Orleans lost something like 20% of their population due to Katrina). I wonder if Trump even realizes how hosed Miami is?
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Nov 11, 2016 01:30
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Potato Salad posted:Sadly, what you are offering as an answer -- lets cotinue growing our economy while preserving human dignity -- was basically the gist of HRC's second debate Maybe it didn't come across to the majority of voters, because I don't remember it. That's why it needs to play a greater role in Democratic messaging moving forward.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:32
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Potato Salad posted:Sadly, what you are offering as an answer -- lets cotinue growing our economy while preserving human dignity -- was basically the gist of HRC's second debate Also this. Hillary did the outreach, and the answer was a resounding Trump victory.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:31
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The revolt is starting. The Democratic establishment controls a party that accounts for the majority of the American voting population but has so utterly failed them that they've lost state government after state government, the House, the Senate and now the White House. All to a much smaller party and one of the most reviled presidential candidates in history. They actually asked us to vote for a candidate who was best friends with Goldman Sachs CEOs and got her foreign policy from loving Henry Kissinger, and wondered why the base didn't show up. I hope she enjoys watching us rebuild a socialist party through the bars of the prison cell Trump throws her in.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:32
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You people think Hillary cared about preserving human dignity? Seriously?
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Nov 11, 2016 01:33
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Who What Now posted:Also this. Hillary did the outreach, and the answer was a resounding Trump victory. The big problem is that the surge in white vote wanted one thing: for the jobs to come back. Hillary had nothing to offer them, because those jobs aren't coming back. Trump just lied.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:34
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Who What Now posted:This election was literally "Status Quo and Incremental Progress" vs "gently caress All Minorities Forever". Everyone who didn't vote for the former approves of, or at best doesn't care about, the latter. And silence is tacit approval of bigotry. This election conclusively proved that the majority of this nation simply does not care about the lives of minorities of any kind, and will gladly see them all dead either purposefully or through apathy. Yeah, this was a referendum on white nationalism. If you don't or couldn't see it in that light, maybe you could at least have seen it as an event that presented a threat to human rights. I'm all for talking about platforms and policy down this page, but if for whatever reason you put something ahead of human rights, you are damned.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:36
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theflyingorc posted:The big problem is that the surge in white vote wanted one thing: for the jobs to come back. Except that Hillary had a bigger role in selling those jobs than Trump could have ever hoped, resulting in horrific conditions for the people actually doing them and gains only for the entrenched rich.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:36
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So I'm sure people reading other D&D threads have seen this already but: https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656 How do people reconcile this poo poo?
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Nov 11, 2016 01:37
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zh1 posted:You people think Hillary cared about preserving human dignity? Seriously? I can see why you might find that dubious... ...if you had never listened to a single word she had ever spoken in her entire life.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:36
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Boon posted:Except that it's not? Your entire argument lies on the premise that 'not voting for Clinton' is tantamount to 'racism' which is ludicrous and not how humans work. Your argument only gets more bizarre after that. If you see somebody being beaten to death by a mob and you could have effortlessly stopped it by, oh say, pressing a button and you choose not to, then guess what? You share some of the blame for that person's death. Now, I'm not sure if you could follow such a subtle metaphor, but the people who didn't vote absolutely approve or are apathetic about racism and bigotry. If they did care and were against it then guess what? They would have voted against it! So yes, I absolutely and rightfully call people who don't give a poo poo about minorities bigots, and you're a coward or an idiot for not doing it too. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 01:37
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zh1 posted:You people think Hillary cared about preserving human dignity? Seriously? Seriously. No one cares what the platform is if they know the candidate is a liar. Hillary destroyed Libya like all the war criminal Republicans we hate, and we were asked to swallow this. How much money did she make off of her connections to Wall Street? And we're supposed to ignore that because she put a progressive sheen over her record before running?
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Nov 11, 2016 01:36
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Boon posted:Except that it's not? Your entire argument lies on the premise that 'not voting for Clinton' is tantamount to 'racism' which is ludicrous and not how humans work. Your argument only gets more bizarre after that. The only way to deny the reasons why Hillary lost and realize that the Dems have to change their approach with identity politics is to cry racism/bigotry. The fact is the places where Obama had his strongest support among White voters is where Hillary had her weakest. The Dems in 8 years have alienated a lot of White Obama supporters, had a lackluster candidate who could fire up the base, and can't figure out how to address the American public without listing off every single identity group just to make sure they covered their bases.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:37
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Potato Salad posted:A friend in Ormewood park had her dog shot in her backyard two years ago Sorry. Joke from the show. https://www.inverse.com/article/21535-atlanta-gun-violence-animals
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Nov 11, 2016 01:37
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Main Paineframe posted:I can see why you might find that dubious... Are you deprived or...??
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Nov 11, 2016 01:38
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Potato Salad posted:Yeah, this was a referendum on white nationalism. If you don't or couldn't see it in that light, maybe you could at least have seen it as an event that presented a threat to human rights. Except it's not. It's absolutely a part of it, yes - but to cast an entire 50+ million people, many of whom voted for Obama, with this net is a strategically stupid move that only serves to misinterpret the actual nature of the loss. You can't figure out a solution if you don't understand the problem.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:37
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kartikeya posted:People be arguing in these threads that it wasn't the right time to press for civil rights because white people only care about things that directly benefit them. They're also arguing that no effort was made by Hillary's campaign to address white people economic issues because that same campaign also said stuff about people that aren't straight white dudes. When you point this out they say 'but it wasn't a good enough effort' and 'but no one was going to believe her', which are both true, but the logical conclusion to that is not 'so let's drop our social justice stances until the time is better and anyone not a straight white dude should just sit down and be quiet now'. No one is saying abandon the minorities for poor whites, people believe that we can do both. help minorities as well as the poor whites. you cant just constantly poo poo on lower white class people and expect them to take it, its why we have trump now.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:38
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Who What Now posted:If you see somebody being beaten to death by a mob and you could have effortlessly stopped it by, oh say, pressing a button and you choose not to, then guess what? You share some of the blame for that person's death. The thing about entirely contrived situations is that I too can just make poo poo up which alters somoene's incentives and motives and paints a picture. Like having to choose between someone else a person doesn't know and a person they know dearly, or a person not having all the information of what makes a situation. Racism plays a role, yup. To think that it's the fundamental driving factor behind this loss is really, really stupid.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:38
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theflyingorc posted:The big problem is that the surge in white vote wanted one thing: for the jobs to come back. The Clinton campaign presented her as a "Pragmatist who gets things done" over and over again in the primaries and the general. Trump lied. WampaLord's been saying this a lot, but is that really what we need to do? Just lie to middle america and tell them that yes, we will fix all their problems? Seems incredibly lovely.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:38
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Mantis42 posted:Seriously. No one cares what the platform is if they know the candidate is a liar. Hillary destroyed Libya like all the war criminal Republicans we hate, and we were asked to swallow this. How much money did she make off of her connections to Wall Street? And we're supposed to ignore that because she put a progressive sheen over her record before running? This forum is kind of a microcosm of the country. Uninformed morons with a chip on their shoulder infighting uselessly while everything rots around them. And as a bonus, useless authority figures stifling the debate by ostracizing the few people with correct opinions
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Nov 11, 2016 01:39
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zh1 posted:You people think Hillary cared about preserving human dignity? Seriously? Seeing as she has been one of few consistently outspoken Americans on the international stage for gay rights, for the last close to two decades, yes actually. Her activism is one of the reasons the UN recognizes marriage equality as a human right. This is a matter of public record.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:40
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zh1 posted:This forum is kind of a microcosm of the country. Uninformed morons with a chip on their shoulder infighting uselessly while everything rots around them. And as a bonus, useless authority figures stifling the debate by ostracizing the few people with correct opinions "Am I so out of touch? No, its the country that's wrong" Keep fighting for the politics of a Democratic establishment that doesn't even exist anymore.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:41
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Boon posted:Except that it's not? Your entire argument lies on the premise that 'not voting for Clinton' is tantamount to 'racism' which is ludicrous and not how humans work. Your argument only gets more bizarre after that. When your choices are Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, and you choose Donald Trump or to just not vote for one of the two, you are either explicitly or implicitly supporting the giant orange garbage man who ran on a platform of 'gently caress every minority forever', because you are saying either that's why you voted for him, or you voted for him while not caring about that bit as much as the part where you wanted the other lies he was selling, or you just really really wanted to stick it to Hillary, or you couldn't be bothered to care enough to stop this from happening. And the people who did that have every right to have done so, they're just going to get called out for it when they try to come back to those same minorities being all 'hey maybe you should listen to my opinions now that I've demonstrated I don't give a poo poo about your actual lives'.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:40
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I think the degree to which Trump campaigned - perhaps implicitly, explicitly or even accidentally - on 'liberals have spent too much time coddling minorities and policing the behavior of white people, so gently caress them' has been gravely underestimated. At the very least, a large enough group of his supporters believed that to be his message that there are PoC and women in this country in real danger now. This is a real thing. It's fine to disagree about how we got here but helping, supporting, and even saving those people now is more important than the circular firing squad.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:42
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Potato Salad posted:Seeing as she has been one of few consistently outspoken Americans on the international stage for gay rights, for the last close to two decades, yes actually.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:41
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Where is the data to suggest that people who voted for Obama voted for Trump this time when he had slightly lower turnout than Romney?
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Nov 11, 2016 01:42
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Dapper_Swindler posted:No one is saying abandon the minorities for poor whites, people believe that we can do both. help minorities as well as the poor whites. you cant just constantly poo poo on lower white class people and expect them to take it, its why we have trump now. Helping both minorities and poor whites is easy. Helping both without the poor whites spitting in your eye and voting against you to punish you for daring to help anyone besides them, on the other hand, is pretty drat hard.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:43
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Wooten posted:Where is the data to suggest that people who voted for Obama voted for Trump this time when he had slightly lower turnout than Romney? In the actual states that flipped.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:43
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Boon posted:The thing about entirely contrived situations is that I too can just make poo poo up which alters somoene's incentives and motives and paints a picture. Like having to choose between someone else a person doesn't know and a person they know dearly, or a person not having all the information of what makes a situation. It's not a contrived situation, did you just not listen to a word that came out of Donald Trump's mouth or the mouths of his supporters for over a year or something? Or are you just really really really sticking to this whole 'no bad things don't actually happen and people that say bigoted things won't actually act on their violent racist fantasies once their strongman gains control of the entire federal government and a huge portion of the states' thing?
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Nov 11, 2016 01:44
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