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Admiral Ray posted:Well, they have feelings too and boy if you hurt their feelings it just shows that you are the real racist. I certainly didn't expect I'd be dusting this thing off and posting it to this particular forum today, but welp  RaySmuckles posted:christ people, relax. abortion is not going to be banned at the federal level. that's loving ridiculous. I mean it's only the platform of the party that just took power of two out of three branches of government and stands poised to take the third in the next four years, and a personal issue the VP is well known for (alongside loving conversion therapy instead of AIDs fuding).
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Nov 11, 2016 05:54
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Pence is already pushing the "states rights" angle for Trans bathrooms so no, they aren't going to literally make abortion and gays illegal at a national level.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:56
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Rated PG-34 posted:Americans have supported genocide too Individuals oh sure. Nazis are a group built around it. Nazis don't deserve any respect, nor any attention to be paid to their views except to extinguish them. Maybe if you travel back in time to the 30s you can try this bullshit equivocation but WW2 already happened and we know that anyone who agrees with Hitler is human garbage and has no place in society.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:55
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readingatwork posted:Actually it looks like they're already trying to subtly float Tim Cain as the new Dem hottness. Hmm. Naaaaaaaahhhhh. I like Tim Kaine as a person, but naaaaaaaahhhhh.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:55
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I mean don't marginalize in the sense of not purging them. I don't mean giving them a prominent voice.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:56
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Xae posted:I like how someone dropped a bombshell that Trump was outright bribing members of the media a couple pages back and no one gave a gently caress. "Hey this guy who has a gun to your face just said he's also running a ponzi scheme" Ask me which one I actually care about right now.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:57
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RaySmuckles posted:christ people, relax. abortion is not going to be banned at the federal level. that's loving ridiculous. Trump getting elected is supposed to be a fantasy. Anything's possible now.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:58
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Fojar38 posted:Pence is already pushing the "states rights" angle for Trans bathrooms so no, they aren't going to literally make abortion and gays illegal at a national level. They want to overturn Roe v. Wade duder. That's precisely what they want to do and there is very little here to stop them. Like maybe they can't literally pass a law that says "No abortions ever for any reason!" but there's a hell of a lot of subtle stuff they can do that will have pretty much the same impact. This idea they can't do much with all 3 branches of government and a right-leaning SCOTUS when they literally believe Planned Parenthood is committing genocide is  This is what they say they want to do. There is nothing stopping them from doing it. Failure to take extremism seriously is one of things that helped normalize Trumpism. People took it seriously here, but lots of people other places including in the media didn't. ErIog fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 05:58
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Rated PG-34 posted:I mean don't marginalize in the sense of not purging them. I don't mean giving them a prominent voice. I am still really okay with a policy of not having Nazis posting on SA. Or any forum they don't specifically run, really. Like, I'm entirely comfortable with this position and don't feel any moral dilemma about it at all.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:59
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Rated PG-34 posted:I mean don't marginalize in the sense of not purging them. I don't mean giving them a prominent voice. Don't backpedal you coward, what is so bad about not allowing nazis to participate in discussions? I mean besides your pseudo-"SJW PANIC" response of "echo  chambers".
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Nov 11, 2016 06:00
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Xae posted:I like how someone dropped a bombshell that Trump was outright bribing members of the media a couple pages back and no one gave a gently caress. Can you link it? I can't find it and google turns up stuff from September.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:00
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kartikeya posted:I mean it's only the platform of the party that just took power of two out of three branches of government and stands poised to take the third in the next four years, and a personal issue the VP is well known for (alongside loving conversion therapy instead of AIDs fuding). not even trump, a manhattenite with a history of supporting democrats and liberal policies like abortion, is dumb enough to sign into the law the most notorious piece of legislation in modern history. its a non-starter. any rights that they want to be chipped away will be relegated to the state level for dismantling.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:01
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Boot and Rally posted:Can you link it? I can't find it and google turns up stuff from September. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/b...co&_r=0&referer RaySmuckles posted:not even trump, a manhattenite with a history of supporting democrats and liberal policies like abortion, is dumb enough to sign into the law the most notorious piece of legislation in modern history. They aren't dumb enough to outlaw it. They'll make it so restricted it is effectively outlawed. Xae fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 06:00
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RaySmuckles posted:its a non-starter. any rights that they want to be chipped away will be relegated to the state level for dismantling. If they do it like this then Trump is a one term president because "values" voters aggressively stay home or attempt to primary him from the right. They believe a genocide is taking place. They see they have control of literally every branch of government. They're not going to accept, "well procedurally this is a big ask.." as an excuse.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:02
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PKJC posted:Individuals oh sure. Nazis are a group built around it. Nazis don't deserve any respect, nor any attention to be paid to their views except to extinguish them. Maybe if you travel back in time to the 30s you can try this bullshit equivocation but WW2 already happened and we know that anyone who agrees with Hitler is human garbage and has no place in society. Yeah and the best way of influencing their views is peacefully. If they're on this forum, for example, they're willing to be engaged with. If you advocate just killing someone outright based on thoughtcrime then okay. If someone has actually committed atrocities, that's a different story of course.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:04
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kartikeya posted:I am still really okay with a policy of not having Nazis posting on SA. Or any forum they don't specifically run, really. Like, I'm entirely comfortable with this position and don't feel any moral dilemma about it at all. 
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Nov 11, 2016 06:03
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They may not repeal Roe v. Wade but they are going to defund the hell out of Planned Parenthood and that's a very big step to having effectively repealed Roe v. Wade. Honestly going for the straight repeal may not be a wise decision for their prospects in the next election because I can see a whole lot of women getting fired up about that, and if the Dems run Duckworth or Warren or another popular woman we may see sub 30% white women vote for the R's. Striking down such a major court decision will be great red meat for their evangelicals but I'm not sure how college educated white women would feel about that kind of a throwback to the 50s.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:05
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ErIog posted:They want to repeal Roe v. Wade duder. That's precisely what they want to do and there is very little here to stop them. Like maybe they can't literally pass a law that says "No abortions ever for any reason!" but there's a hell of a lot of subtle stuff they can do that will have pretty much the same impact.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:04
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ErIog posted:They want to repeal Roe v. Wade duder. Of course they do, but SCOTUS won't play ball even with Scalia being replaced by Scalia.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:04
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Xae posted:They aren't dumb enough to outlaw it. They'll make it so restricted it is effectively outlawed. keep in mind, these people have to get RE-elected. they know that abortion is a BIG DEAL. its whats energizing a large section of their base. if they deflate that bubble it will create a most likely significantly larger bubble on the other side of the aisle. you know, the one that's all about women's rights and stuff. it'd be a huge disaster. plus, roberts isn't going to overturn roe v wade. he's very conscious of his legacy and the role of the supreme court. he isn't going to be the dude that banned abortion.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:05
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Odobenidae posted:Don't backpedal you coward, what is so bad about not allowing nazis to participate in discussions? I mean besides your pseudo-"SJW PANIC" response of "echo Lol sjw used unironically. I'm not back pedaling. You're projecting.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:05
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By the way I'm not saying that people shouldn't take what happened seriously and that Trump and the GOP don't constitute a genuine and serious threat right now. I'm trying to remind people having literal panic attacks that it's not the end of the world, checks and balances are still in place, and that in 2 short years there's an opportunity to finally give Trump the owning he deserves if you're willing to work for it.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:07
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Rated PG-34 posted:Yeah and the best way of influencing their views is peacefully. If they're on this forum, for example, they're willing to be engaged with. If you advocate just killing someone outright based on thoughtcrime then okay. If someone has actually committed atrocities, that's a different story of course. Considering we're talking about a forum, no, we're not advocating killing anyone based on thoughtcrime. But no, I will not give a nazi the benefit of the doubt that they are willing to be engaged with, any more than I'd expect a black person to give the benefit of the doubt to someone wearing a white hood. There are ideologies that can be definitively considered beyond the pale and white supremacy is one of them. I get that you're having fun playing devil's advocate but no, I don't see you convincing anyone to waste time engaging with nazis.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:07
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Rated PG-34 posted:I mean don't marginalize in the sense of not purging them. I don't mean giving them a prominent voice. Rated PG-34 posted:If you purge them, you can't reach out to them in any way.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:07
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Terrific messaging on the court from Jeff Merkley today. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...138169073,d.eWE
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Nov 11, 2016 06:08
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Fojar38 posted:By the way I'm not saying that people shouldn't take what happened seriously and that Trump and the GOP don't constitute a genuine and serious threat right now. I'm trying to remind people having literal panic attacks that it's not the end of the world, checks and balances are still in place, and that in 2 short years there's an opportunity to finally give Trump the owning he deserves if you're willing to work for it. seriously. this. trump can be bad. really bad. but we have 2 and 4 years to come back and take power away from him. the conservatives are not going to rewrite the constitution and overturn huge amounts of supreme court decisions in 2 years. its all up to the democrats and the more they change their own party to be an instrument of good and not a tool of the elites, the more power we can harness.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:08
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Fojar38 posted:By the way I'm not saying that people shouldn't take what happened seriously and that Trump and the GOP don't constitute a genuine and serious threat right now. I'm trying to remind people having literal panic attacks that it's not the end of the world, checks and balances are still in place, and that in 2 short years there's an opportunity to finally give Trump the owning he deserves if you're willing to work for it. There is one check, the filibuster and that can be eliminated any time Mitch McConnell wants.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:09
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RaySmuckles posted:keep in mind, these people have to get RE-elected. they know that abortion is a BIG DEAL. its whats energizing a large section of their base. if they deflate that bubble it will create a most likely significantly larger bubble on the other side of the aisle. you know, the one that's all about women's rights and stuff. it'd be a huge disaster. Of course, they'll secure their reelection first--by repealing all voting-related amendments and laws and reverting to "white male landowners only" ballots. The supreme court now complete with Scaliabot 2.0 will vote 5-4 in favor of this on the basis of CONSTITUTIONAL ORIGINALISM. Abortion clinics will then be declared undesirable strongholds and illegal sin-dens. The airforce will be brought in to strategically bomb each and every one while the tanks roll out on the city streets. I'm not shitposting, genuinely and sincerely believe this will happen within a year.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:11
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A prominent voice means giving them a column on the front page for example. What are we so scared of anyway? Suppose a nazi joins SA and posts in this thread. People will just say he's dumb, school him, and maybe he will feel ashamed and renounce nazism. Or he will just go away and espouse his nazi crap elsewhere.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:11
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RaySmuckles posted:keep in mind, these people have to get RE-elected. they know that abortion is a BIG DEAL. its whats energizing a large section of their base. if they deflate that bubble it will create a most likely significantly larger bubble on the other side of the aisle. you know, the one that's all about women's rights and stuff. it'd be a huge disaster. They'll run proposing a series of MORE restrictions, or fighting to make it outright illegal. They'll never deliver an outright ban, they'll just keep adding on restrictions. Their base is so ignorant of abortion they think it happens at 9 months, or they post The Onion satire Abortionplex as real news. Even if the base eventually figures it out they can get several election cycles out of it.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4Uw9vBRpqw
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Nov 11, 2016 06:11
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mcmagic posted:There is one check, the filibuster and that can be eliminated any time Mitch McConnell wants. A) He won't eliminate the filibuster, he's already been backpedaling from his post-election hallucinogenic statements toying with the idea B) Even if he did, the Republican majority is precarious enough that all it takes is 2 GOP senators defecting and their majority is gone. C) Even without the fillibuster there are still all sorts of arcane wizard rules in Congress that would make the GOP passing things without Democratic consent a colossal and slow pain in the rear end. Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 06:11
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mcmagic posted:There is one check, the filibuster and that can be eliminated any time Mitch McConnell wants. they're not going to do it. it would set a precedent that will ultimately come back to gently caress them over in the future. i mean, sure, there's a statistical chance they'll do it. but its incredibly small, short sighted, and will ultimately hurt them equally. not every senator is on death's door and they know that the legislature shifts back and forth. it'd be a MAJOR change in the functioning of the senate and one that can never be undone.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:13
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RaySmuckles posted:i mean, sure, there's a statistical chance they'll do it. but its incredibly small, short sighted, and will ultimately hurt them equally. 
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Nov 11, 2016 06:13
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Honest question to the people talking about taking the country back. Republicans are really good at voter suppression. Now they will suppress votes and redistrict with the authority of the executive branch and the entire federal government. What makes you think democrats will win a significant amount of elections ever again?
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Nov 11, 2016 06:13
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RaySmuckles posted:not even trump, a manhattenite with a history of supporting democrats and liberal policies like abortion, is dumb enough to sign into the law the most notorious piece of legislation in modern history. Trump does not give a single poo poo about abortion either way, and has no reason to oppose it, especially since he's been espousing he would do just that. The people he's surrounding himself with do. Mike Pence not only wants to ban all abortion, period, he wants to force women to have funerals for their aborted or miscarried fetuses, and he literally pushed a bill that tried to do exactly that in his home state.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:13
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the black husserl posted:Honest question to the people talking about taking the country back. Republicans are really good at voter suppression. Now they will suppress votes and redistrict with the authority of the executive branch and the entire federal government. What makes you think democrats will win a significant amount of elections ever again? What makes them think there will even BE another election ever again, is the question
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Nov 11, 2016 06:15
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Rated PG-34 posted:A prominent voice means giving them a column on the front page for example. A prominent voice means giving them the presidency.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:15
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Rated PG-34 posted:A prominent voice means giving them a column on the front page for example. We're not scared of your weird hypothetical but it would absolutely be 100% better to never have a nazi post in this thread at all. Their voices do not deserve to be heard.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:15
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RaySmuckles posted:seriously. this. Trump is a vocal racist, sexual assault braggadocio, war crime advocator and protection racket runner. That 50 million people voted for him and he won is already very, very bad for this country. The only thing you have to do to get Americans to vote for you is tell lies and be racist.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:14
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