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RasperFat posted:The last entire year saw almost no public feminist movement. Hillary WAS the public feminist movement. But what was she fighting for? Was she adamant about equal pay? Adamant about childcare? Adamant about reproductive health? ... Yes? She mentioned those issues constantly on the stump, and those were easily the issues she was the most passionate and consistent about. There are many good reasons why Hillary lost, but "not being passionate enough about womens' and childrens' issues" isn't one of them.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:31
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Schumer backing keith confirms what venom snake is saying about the party being completely leaderless and broken. It's really difficult to overstate how much of the internal power structure of the democratic party has been violently upeneded with the collapse of the clinton faction, with hundreds of party apparatchiks completely giving up and leaving or having an extreme existential crisisSHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Who and what congressman keith ellision has put his name foward for dnc chair and is supported by bernie. he is the second in command of the congresional progressive caucus and basically and third way/clintonism as you can get. senate minority leader chuck schumer is a vile snake who does what is best for schumer and was a major force supporting the clinton faction. him running to the progressives like a dog, where he would be viewed with suspicion by the new locus of power of progressives and left-liberals is a weathervane that he think this is only way to avoid getting eaten by the mob
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Nov 11, 2016 15:32
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silver lining to all this is maybe democrats and 'progressives' will stop whining about 'neoliberal' lol
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Nov 11, 2016 15:31
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Zikan posted:Schumer backing keith confirms what venom snake is saying about the party being completely leaderless and broken. It's really difficult to overstate how much of the internal power structure of the democratic party has been violently upeneded with the collapse of the clinton faction, with hundreds of party apparatchiks completely giving up and leaving or having an extreme existential crisis i'm glad the corporatists just realized they handed the keys of government to fascists with their idiocy i'd have prefered they woke the gently caress up during the primary but whatever
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Nov 11, 2016 15:36
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DaveWoo posted:... Yes? She mentioned those issues constantly on the stump, and those were easily the issues she was the most passionate and consistent about. Yeah it didn't help that Clinton talking about policy isn't sexy and the media reported really only on her talking about Trump because Trump is ratings.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:35
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DaveWoo posted:... Yes? She mentioned those issues constantly on the stump, and those were easily the issues she was the most passionate and consistent about. Yeah, honestly this was probably the thing Hillary believed in the most.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:36
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Battle Royale Baby posted:Aw I missed out on DNC chairman Elliott Smith chat If my facebook is any indication a lot of people who are in that bubble are sincerely failing to understand what happened and really just think everybody is just a racist and hates women.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:38
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:Same. There's some in the Union community who are like "let's encourage the GOP/conservatives to push for a full out repeal of the NLRA/Taft Hartley and just have one last, wild west labor fight. Wildcat strikes in the age of social media? Oh poo poo, where did this boner come from?
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Nov 11, 2016 15:40
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DaveWoo posted:... Yes? She mentioned those issues constantly on the stump, and those were easily the issues she was the most passionate and consistent about. But... she wasn't? Did you see a single TV add that was some sort of focus on the family bullshit? Or guaranteed child care being a talking point? No we didn't. She has historically been fighting for these things. She didn't communicate that effectively at all. She communicates Trump is bad and I have a good and extensive policy plan go check it out.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:41
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Peel posted:silver lining to all this is maybe democrats and 'progressives' will stop whining about 'neoliberal' lol they spent their mandate being corporate stooges and handing out giant favors to wall street obama publically still wanted to push tpp through the primary season and general election i have little faith
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Nov 11, 2016 15:41
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RasperFat posted:I know a lot of great women fought hard for Hillary and against Trump. They are not the problem. The women who just stayed home aren't the problem. Even the alarmingly high number of women who voted for Trump aren't the problem. Hillary surrogates saying young women supported Sanders because that's where the boys are were a problem. Madeline "500,000 dead Iraqi children were worth it" Albright saying there's a special place in Hell for women who don't support Hillary was a problem.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:47
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FistEnergy posted:I made my share of Berniebro jokes this year, and I assumed that Clinton's flaws weren't fatal when compared to Trump's, but I just finished emailing Sherrod Brown and I told him that neoliberalism is dead and the progressive wing needs to take over from here and focus on economic equality and unionization. And after that, I emailed my county Democratic party office to find out how I can help out with this Trump-sign-infested county. If you're comfortable doing so, can you post the basic form of your emails? I definitely need to do the same. Obviously you don't need to share personal information.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:47
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DaveWoo posted:... Yes? She mentioned those issues constantly on the stump, and those were easily the issues she was the most passionate and consistent about. Uh, what stump? She didn't hold any rallies or press conferences for the longest time. They just kept having "intimate settings" which nobody covered.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:48
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Hell, look at the D&D thread about what went wrong (I won't quote posts because I don't know if that's kosher). But you have people seriously posting that maybe she just didn't stress enough about how she'd be a woman president and break the glass ceiling. And others posting about how it was really the polls that failed her and if she'd had better data she would have done things right and won. The bubble still exists and while I hope it gets smashed so the party can move forward I'm not sure if it will.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:49
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tbf she probably would have won with better data losing by several small margins in key states means there's a laundry list of things she could have done differently to win. the democrats were blindsided but not blown out
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Nov 11, 2016 15:53
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Wildcat strikes in the age of social media? Oh poo poo, where did this boner come from? I've been pondering the "how to revolt without automatically getting loving murdered" and I think this is it.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:53
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Peel posted:silver lining to all this is maybe democrats and 'progressives' will stop whining about 'neoliberal' lol great post
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Nov 11, 2016 15:53
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Peel posted:tbf she probably would have won with better data yep, that's what irks me the most about the "hillary lost because of racism" posters. if she had motivated people just one tiny smidgen better, she would've won. and it's not like she was trying. maybe instead of having a cameo in broad city hillary could have had a rally in the rust belt talking about her jobs retraining and the green jobs she was gonna bring them
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Nov 11, 2016 15:55
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Peel posted:tbf she probably would have won with better data Basing your campaign on being data driven is also why it came off as being unrelatable and alien to begin with. It was a technocratic delusion which led them to forget that politics are fundamentally social in nature. The first thing they should have done was get her to quit using that stilted speech pattern she always used when delivering prepared statements.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:56
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I'm just hoping the centrists who insist that Hillary did not fail and was failed just take their ball and go home completely.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:57
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Basing your campaign on being data driven is also why it came off as being unrelatable and alien to begin with. It was a technocratic delusion which led them to forget that politics are fundamentally social in nature. The first thing they should have done was get her to quit using that stilted speech pattern she always used when delivering prepared statements. Basing it on being data driven lets you pay poo poo tons of consultants. Those consultants are upper income professional class social liberals that live in the richest cities in the US, those cities are Democratic power centers. It funnels money to the right people in the right places, which is the entire point of the party. It's not a bad thing.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:57
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Fiction posted:I'm just hoping the centrists who insist that Hillary did not fail and was failed just take their ball and go home completely. There's enough Netflix and cat videos to last a lifetime.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:58
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MysteriousStranger posted:Basing it on being data driven lets you pay poo poo tons of consultants. Those consultants are upper income professional class social liberals that live in the richest cities in the US, those cities are Democratic power centers. It funnels money to the right people in the right places, which is the entire point of the party. It's not a bad thing. well, cept when that funnel gets in the way of downticket races oops!
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Nov 11, 2016 15:59
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Condiv posted:well, cept when that funnel gets in the way of downticket races MS has just been reminding everyone of the structure of the Democratic party periodically because apparently everyone, myself included, has collective amnesia
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Nov 11, 2016 15:59
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MysteriousStranger posted:Basing it on being data driven lets you pay poo poo tons of consultants. Those consultants are upper income professional class social liberals that live in the richest cities in the US, those cities are Democratic power centers. It funnels money to the right people in the right places, which is the entire point of the party. It's not a bad thing. The Democratic Party is a party of the bourgeoisie you say? *rubs chin*
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Nov 11, 2016 16:00
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speaking of, what kind of horrific debt do you think the shittastic DNC leadership left us from this election? how much do you guys think they overextended themselves expecting a constant stream of "donations" after hillary won?
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Nov 11, 2016 15:59
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Condiv posted:yep, that's what irks me the most about the "hillary lost because of racism" posters. if she had motivated people just one tiny smidgen better, she would've won. and it's not like she was trying. maybe instead of having a cameo in broad city hillary could have had a rally in the rust belt talking about her jobs retraining and the green jobs she was gonna bring them Michigan was close enough that she'd probably have won it easily just by having a press conference talking about Flint during the general election period.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:01
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Basing your campaign on being data driven is also why it came off as being unrelatable and alien to begin with. It was a technocratic delusion which led them to forget that politics are fundamentally social in nature. The first thing they should have done was get her to quit using that stilted speech pattern she always used when delivering prepared statements. Apparently, what they learned from Obama's campaign was "data" instead of "talk to people. listen to people".
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Nov 11, 2016 16:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Hillary surrogates saying young women supported Sanders because that's where the boys are were a problem. In agree with that. Albright is an establishment presence and thus was basically Hillary herself. There were definitely assholes mixed in there, I just wanted to be careful about throwing all of the millions of women that supported her under the bus. It's cool to have been excited about the first female president. The problem is the DNC dangled it front of us with laser show and pyrotechnics, distracting us from the fact that the source of light and fire was a burning dumpster of a candidate and out of touch campaign.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:07
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Peel posted:tbf she probably would have won with better data But that still goes to the central premise of third way-ism that she could have just slightly tweaked something to gain a few more votes from a certain demographic. At the end of the day her and the DNC were so completely focused on data and virtue signalling that they completely lost touch with the country. They lost it so badly that our next president is Donald loving Trump. Better data wouldn't have made her a better candidate.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:08
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Fiction posted:I'm just hoping the centrists who insist that Hillary did not fail and was failed just take their ball and go home completely. I think we all failed each other
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Nov 11, 2016 16:08
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Condiv posted:speaking of, what kind of horrific debt do you think the shittastic DNC leadership left us from this election? how much do you guys think they overextended themselves expecting a constant stream of "donations" after hillary won? I'd also be interested to see what happens to the Clinton Foundation now that their power and influence in DC is heavily diminished. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say donations, especially from foreign governments, fall considerably.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:09
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Venom Snake posted:It's fine man. If I couldn't handle people being upset at me I wouldn't have made the thread. And I agree with you that they need to be helped like yesterday. Do you think something like minimum income would also help them? Hey I wanted to thank you for sticking with this thread, and I really hope others from the campaign are watching this thread and taking notes. These people just want their lives back. They used to go to work, bond with their co-workers, bitch about their managers, and spend 8 hours a day doing something that was useful. Then they went home to their house and their wives and their kids and felt good about putting in a full day's work. They turned on the TV, maybe cracked open a beer, and had conversations about being able to take that vacation in a few years, or maybe this year we'll be able to redo the bathroom. Yeah maybe they weren't the smartest person in the world or "management material" or whatever the gently caress people judged them by, but they woke up every morning, put their pants on, and showed up to work 2 minutes early to Do Something that needed to be done. They worked hard and were loyal and were proud of it. Sending these people a check in the mail might keep them from literally dying, but it won't Let Them Live. These people want want to go Do Something. They want to be useful. They want to have co-workers they can laugh with and managers to bitch about. They want to count down the days until that vacation. They want to feel proud again. The Democratic Party switches between ignoring these people and sneering at them for their silly, backward, uneducated ways. The GOP tells them "We can't fix this but I swear those idiots broke it, and I'll go punch 'em in the nose for ya!" Maybe 10 years ago when the factory closed down they weren't susceptible to that message, but after 10 years of no jobs and watching their town fall apart and their buddy's suicide and the divorce and their kids fleeing for the loving hills they're god drat angry. And you know what? They have every loving right to be angry, because they were loyal and they worked hard and in exchange the capitalist class sold them the gently caress out so some loving CFO could watch his loving numbers tick up a hair. We can 100% offer solutions to this as a party without sacrificing a single god drat thing. We can build green energy factories in these counties. We can build research centers in these counties. We can build healthcare centers in these counties. Take whatever liberal priority you can think of and we can build something here to help fix things nationally and help these people locally. People are saying we just need to bump this group or that group's turnout levels back to Obama levels. Great! I do too! But here is something we can do in addition to that! Here is something that helps people who have been savaged by the capitalist class and helps fight global warming or helps advance research or helps improve healthcare in this county. Why the gently caress wouldn't we want to do this?
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Nov 11, 2016 16:10
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RasperFat posted:In agree with that. Albright is an establishment presence and thus was basically Hillary herself. There were definitely assholes mixed in there, I just wanted to be careful about throwing all of the millions of women that supported her under the bus. Nobody is holding this against Clinton's supporters (who weren't counter-productive assholes), but it's not exactly fair to pin all the blame on Clinton herself. She is ultimately responsible, yes, but her surrogates turned off a lot of women bigly.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The dumbest presidential campaign yet full of delusional imbeciles, was better staffed and organized than the Clinton campaign. And nobody could tell because we were all completely distracted by the sheer spectacle of the Trump Train. 100 years from now historians might still be debating whether trump was actually playing 5-D chess or was just a bumbling idiot who stumbled into the presidency cuz everyone else hosed up
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Nov 11, 2016 16:12
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Thoguh posted:But that still goes to the central premise of third way-ism that she could have just slightly tweaked something to gain a few more votes from a certain demographic. At the end of the day her and the DNC were so completely focused on data and virtue signalling that they completely lost touch with the country. They lost it so badly that our next president is Donald loving Trump. Better data wouldn't have made her a better candidate. They didn't lose touch with the country. The Democrats just weren't going to demonize immigrants or promise that empty threats of trade wars will bring back jobs. Guess what? They are still not going to do so in the future. What they will do is give up ground on guns, government regulation, and taxes to try and flip college educated whited voters in their favor.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:13
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anime was right posted:man there is some legit fire in lee's tweets. no it's cuz racism we lost
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Nov 11, 2016 16:13
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loquacius posted:I feel like Hillary adopting Bernie's platform was a rhetorical weapon to shut down people trying to call her centrist rather than an actual platform of policy stances she believed in and wanted to sell people on I feel like 0 people including Hillary herself actually believed that she actually adopted Bernie platform on anything other than paper
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Nov 11, 2016 16:14
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tadashi posted:Apparently, what they learned from Obama's campaign was "data" instead of "talk to people. listen to people". I think a lot of it was a combination of Nate Silver + the shittastic failure of Orca in 2012. We convinced ourselves we are the best at tech and so smart we couldn't lose with all these computers. The fetishization of "data driven" in the tech and consulting industries is a bit of a problem IMHO. There's an ironclad believe that it can correct all human gently caress ups, groupthink, and bias, but little realization that if your models, methods, or data is flawed it can just as easily make all those problems worse. Or as the old statistician joke goes: "If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
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Nov 11, 2016 16:14
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:We can 100% offer solutions to this as a party without sacrificing a single god drat thing. We can build green energy factories in these counties. We can build research centers in these counties. We can build healthcare centers in these counties. Take whatever liberal priority you can think of and we can build something here to help fix things nationally and help these people locally. more importantly, you can promise to do those things regardless of whether you have the inclination or even ability to do them
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