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speng31b posted:I'm going to miss Harry Reid. Me too, although I have to say, Schumer might be pretty decent in his role as minority leader. Yes, he's too pro-Wall Street and too pro-Israel, but Trump's going to be those things too no matter what, and there's not much a minority leader can do to block Trump's agenda on those fronts. But he's also a drat good attack dog, and he knows the levers of power in the Senate very well. So I'm hoping he'll carry on Reid's good work. Plus, he's given Keith Ellison his endorsement for DNC chair, so that suggests to me that he can see which way the wind is blowing, and it's not in the third way Dems' favor. Majorian fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 03:58
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FuturePastNow posted:And not to be a bitter Bernie supporter, either, but I'll trust the photos of him marching with Civil Rights protesters over the photos of Hillary interning for the Nixon admin as evidence of who would actually be stronger on race issues Hillary won over minority voters in the primary because there's still lots of living memory of good the Clintons did during the 90s especially in the black community and Bernie was aloof and distant about social issues during that runup.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:58
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Kilroy posted:She could have selected Bernie as her VP and put a progressive in as the chair of the DNC. That would have won her the election handily IMO. it was so obvious to so many people instead we got Tim "Googles His Name to Find Out Who the gently caress He Is" Kaine the excitement was palpable
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Nov 12, 2016 03:59
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Mr Hootington posted:http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/why_did_some_white_obama_voters_for_trump.html loving clueless.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:59
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Stereotype posted:I think the best thing for a new Democratic party to do is promise unrelenting fire and brimstone to lawbreakers in the Trump administration. None of this bullshit ignoring of Bush era war crimes, if they want to rile up the base they need to take the Lock Her Up page from Trump's playbook and promise harsh retribution against any future transgressions. Or, get this strange idea, they might actually listen to democrats instead of special interests. What a radical idea, right?
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Nov 12, 2016 04:01
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FuturePastNow posted:And not to be a bitter Bernie supporter, either, but I'll trust the photos of him marching with Civil Rights protesters over the photos of Hillary interning for the Nixon admin as evidence of who would actually be stronger on race issues I mean, I get this, but come on, people never change? It was a known thing that she was conservative in her youth. You can say Bernie had legit cred on fighting for minority issues literally his entire career without insisting Hillary needed to be ideologically pure in her early 20s to ever be allowed to have something other than R next to her name.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:01
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FuturePastNow posted:And not to be a bitter Bernie supporter, either, but I'll trust the photos of him marching with Civil Rights protesters over the photos of Hillary interning for the Nixon admin as evidence of who would actually be stronger on race issues He's always had the chops at dealing with minority voters, but not the name recognition. And if this election has proven anything, it's that name recognition goes a loooong way to getting elected.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:00
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Serious question: what would it have taken for you to believe her sincerity on her leftish platform? What would she have had to do? There's nothing. The last decade of her political career has been bankrolled by the New York banks and investment firms. She could never run fast enough to escape that.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:01
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Xae posted:The thing to remember about Bernie is that he is way, way to the left of the Electorate. Hmm the big thing about that point is that it is super wrong. People in Colorado are well versed in incompetent idiots coming to their state to take advantage of legal weed, they weren't about to turn that stream of transients into a firehose by promising to cure their bodies for free. On a national level the proposal would recieve significantly more support. We might have to teach them what "single payer" means though
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Nov 12, 2016 04:03
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Tir McDohl posted:Oh def. more than loving anything dems need to score victories locally, and in off-year elections. I don't know how we get people to vote more than once every four years but dammit I was guilty of that and this election is gonna get me off my rear end in 2018. The Democrats will never be anything but useless. The Dems are incompetent, and the Reps are evil. That's practically a law of physics by now.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:07
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In addition to hearing about Mondale, I'd like to ask how much in common does this election have with 1928? The morning after His Accidency was elected, I was freaking out about how certain it is that Trump ends up causing another Great Depression. In that vein, I just read a WaPo article that compares Trump to Hoover as Presidents that took office in an era of stagnant wages and absurd economic inequality. Hoover also promised to levy tariffs, which ended up sparking a trade war and economic collapse. I guess I'm wondering how likely it is that history repeats, and whether we'll be lucky enough to get another FDR out of this
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Nov 12, 2016 04:08
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Stereotype posted:Hmm the big thing about that point is that it is super wrong. People in Colorado are well versed in incompetent idiots coming to their state to take advantage of legal weed, they weren't about to turn that stream of transients into a firehose by promising to cure their bodies for free. Single Payer is one of those issues that polls really well when you talk about it vaguely. Also if you poll about "nationalizing healthcare" or "federal government takeover of hospitals" you'll see the support go even lower. It is so far outside of the mainstream of thought people haven't registered any deep feelings about it yet. But as soon as details start getting nailed down the support plummets. You can try to hand wave it if you want, but 60 points isn't some margin of error thing.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:09
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I mean yes, what-ifs are impossible to prove or disprove but let's compare: A) A candidate who an awful lot of people had serious trust issues with, even people who agreed with their platform B) A candidate who even people who hate their platform thought was fundamentally honest and genuine gee We'll never know how B would have done but A failed miserably
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Nov 12, 2016 04:11
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He's the dog that caught the car.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:11
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Tir McDohl posted:You're part of the problem That may be so, but I'm not seeing how. HRC was held to immense double standards compared to any male politician you can think of, but fortunately Trump provides the most current as well as the most striking example. Her minor issues were suddenly un-loving-believably important and an awful lot of people discovered an awfully strong need for ideological purity and an actually perfect candidate. A woman whose worst crimes were being a career politician and being dumb with online security was regarded as worse than a confessed sexual assaulter, a demonizer of immigrants, of women, of Muslims, of just about everyone under the sun in fact, who promised things both wildly unconstitutional and totally impossible anyway - and lost. Women are held to an incredibly higher standard than men, women who are seeking any sort of power are at an instant disadvantage, and if you sincerely honest-to-god don't think that a candidate identical in every other way except male would have almost certainly got the extra half-million votes in the right states to win, I don't know what to tell you. Now, if people like me start saying this stuff and then acting like there are no other issues in the Democratic Party then yeah, we'd be a huge problem. There are plenty of other issues that need to be assessed and addressed, and I'm certainly not smart enough to even identify them all, let alone fix them. I don't know how you get Dems out at midterms, or get them enthused about a candidate, or whether and how to unite disparate interests, or what you do now that GOTV seems to be utterly meaningless. We also face an enormous challenge in growing credible candidates for future elections because the intended places in a Clinton administration obviously don't exist. These are all issues which need to be looked at and acted on - but ultimately, I'm confident saying that a man otherwise equal would have been able to get the 150,000~ votes spread across PA, WI, and MI to change the result.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:12
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Great, we can add midtown traffic to the list of stuff that'll be ruined for 4 years.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:12
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PKJC posted:The second part yes, the first no, I'm not sure why anyone thinks Bernie would have accepted VP nod even if it were offered (which it should have been if it wasn't but I don't remember her shortlist). Like, go be VP and do basically nothing while there was massive uncertainty even in the polling on the prospect of Dems getting to 50 in the Senate and risk someone less progressive ending up in his seat, or hold his seat and try to get ranking chair on a committee and be able to spend his days trying to actually affect the changes he championed the whole primary. For him to be willing to accept an offer at being VP he would have to believe back in July that a) Hillary right now will absolutely lose, at a time when polling wrong as it ended up being wasn't pointing that direction and b) Bernie being the VP would absolutely turn that around and guarantee her victory. Bernie seems like a confident guy but not an arrogant one.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:14
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FourLeaf posted:ehhhhhh this is the closest thing i've got "We're so awful." 
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Nov 12, 2016 04:15
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Fojar38 posted:He's the dog that caught the car. I've seen a lot of "how obvious it was that Hillary was going to lose if you'd get out of the echo chamber", but stuff like quote:The questions reflect what Mr. Trump’s advisers described as the president-elect’s coming to grips with the fact that his life is about to change radically. They say that Mr. Trump, who was shocked when he won the election shows that almost loving nobody, not even Trump himself thought he'd win. e: quote:His aides say he has also expressed interest in continuing to hold the large rallies that were a staple of his candidacy. He likes the instant gratification and adulation that the cheering crowds provide, and his aides are discussing how they might accommodate his demand. Jesus christ
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Nov 12, 2016 04:13
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Has anyone told him he's allowed to bring all that tacky golden furniture with him to the White House? Kilroy posted:Hmmm, fair enough and frankly I didn't want Bernie as VP anyway. But, she definitely should have put some progressive on the ticket with her. What was wrong with Kaine's voting record exactly?
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Nov 12, 2016 04:14
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Kilroy posted:Hmmm, fair enough and frankly I didn't want Bernie as VP anyway. But, she definitely should have put some progressive on the ticket with her. Yeah Kaine seemed like a poor choice no matter how much people tried to hype him up during the convention.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:14
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FuturePastNow posted:I mean yes, what-ifs are impossible to prove or disprove but let's compare: B) and had huge problems gaining minority votes. And was a socialist, which is still a four letter word in half the country. And was far to the left of most democrats.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:16
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HorseRenoir posted:I doubt it. Not even counting the amount of differences between the American populace between 1980 and now, Reagan was able to do what he did because he was extremely popular and Trump is not that. He is one of the most unpopular presidential candidates ever and barely won against one of the other most unpopular presidential candidates ever with pitifully low turnout, and even then he couldn't win the popular vote. At least half the country hates him and this is his honeymoon period, his popularity will sink even lower when he inevitably fails to deliver on his impossibly vague and grand promises and the economy tanks. He can try to blame Obama for his failures, but Obama's approval numbers are sky-high and I don't see them falling any time soon. I'd like to say Trump is going to show us just how low a President's approval rating can go, but why would anything nice ever happen?
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Nov 12, 2016 04:15
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FuturePastNow posted:And not to be a bitter Bernie supporter, either, but I'll trust the photos of him marching with Civil Rights protesters over the photos of Hillary interning for the Nixon admin as evidence of who would actually be stronger on race issues Bernie went on a march. Clinton actually went undercover to enforce brown v. board. Both were ironically prototypical of their supporters - facebook slacktivist vs. doers.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:16
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Xae posted:Single Payer is one of those issues that polls really well when you talk about it vaguely. I disagree, it is more a fear of unknown / communism thing, not really that the more they become acquainted with the idea the more they hate it. The fact that the name has such a strong impact on its palatability means that no one understands what the hell it is. "Medicare-for-all" is something people like, because they know what Medicare is and it is a Good Thing That Helps People They Know (though they likely don't understand what IT is either). "Socialized medicine" or "National Takeover" are despised because people can only think of rationing and some tall creepy russian doctor with dead eyes covered in blood holding a scalpel as their physician. If people understood it was "You pay the same as you do now except in your taxes instead of to that company you hate and all your doctors and hospitals and everything else is identical (except that insurance companies are all rolled into one single NHS type federal bureau with less overhead)" maybe they wouldn't be so scared? Probably not. People are stupid.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:16
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Jack2142 posted:Yeah Kaine seemed like a poor choice no matter how much people tried to hype him up during the convention. Kaine was fine, if you need your VP to energize your ticket then you're hosed anyhow
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Nov 12, 2016 04:16
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So it seems that Trump is heavily invested in DAP. Any possibility that his family also has invested a tremendous amount in oil etc.. so when he does remove restrictions he makes millions. Like what's the return on like a 1 million dollar investment in a company that owns 25% of the DAP? I am not good at finances.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:16
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Xae posted:B) and had huge problems gaining minority votes. And was a socialist, which is still a four letter word in half the country. And was far to the left of most democrats. I think Bernie could have actually regained the minority vote over time but him starting late in the run and flubbing it out the gate didn't help him. And then all the scandal coupled with incredibly long lines at many polling stations depressed minority turnout anyways.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:16
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Xae posted:B) and had huge problems gaining minority votes. And was a socialist, which is still a four letter word in half the country. And was far to the left of most democrats. Didn't we just learn minorities don't matter though? Seriously though Bernie might not be a smoking gun, but maybe with the backing of the party behind him he would have had alot more resources to reach out beyond his "base" Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 04:16
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fknlo posted:Jesus christ Well the bully pulpit is definitely a thing but lol
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Nov 12, 2016 04:18
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FuturePastNow posted:I mean yes, what-ifs are impossible to prove or disprove but let's compare: it's only day three and i am already tired of sanders supporters trying to relitigate the 2016 election
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Nov 12, 2016 04:17
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fknlo posted:shows that almost loving nobody, not even Trump himself thought he'd win. I don't have it to hand, but y'all see that picture of him on election night right as he wins some big state? His team is going wild (understandably) and he himself looks like his soul has just left his mortal body.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:17
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Stereotype posted:I disagree, it is more a fear of unknown / communism thing, not really that the more they become acquainted with the idea the more they hate it. Guess what the Republicans, Health Insurers, Drug Company, Hospitals, Device Makers and the AMA are going to be running adds 24/7 calling it? Democrats are not going to be able to out-market a 3 trillion dollar segment of the economy.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:19
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This is hilarious. It will also be something many Republicans will think shouldn't be an issue. (Unless a Democrat did it.)
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Nov 12, 2016 04:19
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Stereotype posted:I disagree, it is more a fear of unknown / communism thing, not really that the more they become acquainted with the idea the more they hate it. Yeah we should just use Medicare for all with healthcare. its considered a right next to guns. Also for everyone engaging Xae, he is just the typical third way person who lost us the election. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 04:20
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Mnoba posted:Unless Oprah was calling Trump a racist I imagine.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:20
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Mister Adequate posted:I don't have it to hand, but y'all see that picture of him on election night right as he wins some big state? His team is going wild (understandably) and he himself looks like his soul has just left his mortal body. I wonder if anyone has told him that he can resign like immediately after taking the oath
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Nov 12, 2016 04:20
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Jack2142 posted:Yeah Kaine seemed like a poor choice no matter how much people tried to hype him up during the convention. Hey he helped Clinton win VA by like 4 votes
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Nov 12, 2016 04:20
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haveblue posted:Great, we can add midtown traffic to the list of stuff that'll be ruined for 4 years. Does his tower not have a helicopter pad to just marine one into?
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Nov 12, 2016 04:22
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Donald Trump is a troll the likes of which the world has never known before. He actually pulls off the crazy poo poo people say they would do if they ever won the lottery and got their "gently caress you" money. He is the Ken M of politics. I have to respect that.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:28
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