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too expensive and inefficient just drop lots of bombs on them bing bang boom so simple!
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Nov 12, 2016 04:41
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Venom Snake posted:The existence of the kurdish people is a myth. Yeah it sucks big time, but when has American military intervention in the Middle East ever gone well, much less won us good will, ever? I'm not saying we should help Putin prop up Assad, because gently caress those guys, some terrible situations don't have a solution, much less one that involves America blowing poo poo up. Between the neocons and their FREEDOM BOMBS, and hawkish leftists worried they're gonna feel responsible for the next Rwanda, we keep getting baited into that poo poo. I'm all for providing food, medicine, refugee resettlement, and that kind of thing. Anyway check out some terrible tourist pics of Syria from 2010 if you want: https://www.flickr.com/photos/amcdaniel83/sets/72157623733031607 https://www.flickr.com/photos/amcdaniel83/sets/72157623782414635
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Nov 12, 2016 04:41
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Atrocious Joe posted:Assad is not committing genocide against Sunnis and accusing him of basically the only war crime he hasn't committed undermines every other accusation Okay mass murder and torture then? I don't like arguing about this because it depresses me that I'll never be able to do anything about it. Trump is going to gently caress it all up. Tom Cotton is going to invade Iran or some poo poo. Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yeah, kid, and who do you think sold Turkey all of the weapons they're using to do that? What massive international alliance is Turkey a part of? What Turkey is about to do is not something you can pin on exclusively the US. But I don't care anymore.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:42
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Venom Snake posted:It's really, really sad that Trump is going to pull the rug out from under the Kurds and they are going to get gassed by everyone. Again. Clinton would have done the same, assuming she didn't blunder her way into a nuclear war and poo poo her pants too. Turkey is too valuable in their calculus.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:43
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Dem Autopsy Verdict #42069: making extremely tortured cultural analogies and metaphors was nerdy as Hell, and extremely alienating to anyone who doesn't participate in pop culture. It didn't actually make any of the points those writers were trying to make more sensible, it just felt like they were talking down to people on the assumption that they can't understand simple language without comparing it to dragon show, or robot western, or nerd wizard. I'm a fan of Game of Thrones, both the books and the show. It's fun pulp fantasy, but that's all it is. The constant comparisons of Clinton to Khaleesi, Mother of Dragons was loving insufferable. And to top it all off with a candied cherry, those same cultural gatekeepers loved the poo poo about Hamilton. A whitewashed revisionist historical fart, with godawful hip hop, expertly crafted to appeal purely to liberal foundational myths.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:42
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mrmcd posted:Yeah it sucks big time, but when has American military intervention in the Middle East ever gone well, much less won us good will, ever? I'm not saying we should help Putin prop up Assad, because gently caress those guys, some terrible situations don't have a solution, much less one that involves America blowing poo poo up. Between the neocons and their FREEDOM BOMBS, and hawkish leftists worried they're gonna feel responsible for the next Rwanda, we keep getting baited into that poo poo. This is really interesting. Thank you. And yeah it's tragic that Trumpists are never going to let these people escape the nightmare either.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:43
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Can't wait for the nuclear arms race between Iran and Saudi Arabia once Trump and the Republicans renegade on the nuclear deal. poo poo is super hosed.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:43
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Punished Snake a man without a party
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Nov 12, 2016 04:44
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WINNINGHARD posted:Clinton would have done the same, assuming she didn't blunder her way into a nuclear war and poo poo her pants too. Turkey is too valuable in their calculus. the Bosphorus Strait is an extremely important strategic chokepoint
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Nov 12, 2016 04:45
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VikingSkull posted:the Bosphorus Strait is an extremely important strategic chokepoint Correct. Turkey is also a NATO member.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:46
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Venom Snake posted:What Turkey is about to do is not something you can pin on exclusively the US. But I don't care anymore. I'm being hard on you here because you have to care. Entangling ourselves in alliances with militarized reactionary states out of geopolitical convenience is part of why the Middle East became such a poo poo show. The United States doesn't act abroad out of genuine humanitarian interest, that's a tool exploited to further the imperial interests of capital.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:46
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Gonna interrupt mideast chat here for a sec with a little spitballing. I think crediting ~Trumpamania~ with the GOP takeover of congress and the states isn't quite accurate. The republican strategy for the last 6-7 years has been 'so what if we don't have the presidency, if we control congress the presidency doesn't matter'. By selling the win, not only did Hillary de-energize her base, she may very well have energized the Republican base to turn out and vote downticket in order to fight her on the races they CAN win, and while they're there, might as well throw one on the pile for Trump. I mean maybe I'm full of poo poo but it makes a lot of sense to me.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:45
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Venom Snake posted:Okay mass murder and torture then? I don't like arguing about this because it depresses me that I'll never be able to do anything about it. T Fast Luck has issued a correction as of 04:54 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 04:47
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maybe we need some sort of world wide political movement that values the lives and wishes and needs of individuals as part of the "whole" but also has enough power or reach to stand up to predatory capitalism too bad it doesn't exist and never will
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Nov 12, 2016 04:47
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SoggyBobcat posted:Can't wait for the nuclear arms race between Iran and Saudi Arabia once Trump and the Republicans renegade on the nuclear deal. There is no race. The Saudi's will just call up Pakistan and have some shipped to their doorstep.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:47
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I feel like such a fool for being a Sander purist and rolling over so quickly into becoming a Hillbot. And then making fun about Trump and Trump voters and being wrong about everything in life. 
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Nov 12, 2016 04:48
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WINNINGHARD posted:Clinton would have done the same, assuming she didn't blunder her way into a nuclear war and poo poo her pants too. Turkey is too valuable in their calculus. The Clinton would start a Nuclear War talking point isn't true just because Trump won.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:49
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NecroMonster posted:a lot of loving people are going to die everywhere because we let this poo poo bag, and the gop, win my dude, our post ww2 foreign policy, war and violent imposition of capitalism for free market labor everywhere on the planet kills like 100s of millions of people every decade.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:49
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Venom Snake posted:This is really interesting. Thank you. And yeah it's tragic that Trumpists are never going to let these people escape the nightmare either. Geopolitics and armed conflict is a brutal business that either slowly grinds away at your soul, or turns you into a full blown Sith Lord like Kissenger who lives for that poo poo. The Trumpsists won't be the last to throw innocents under the bus in units of (10^5 human lives).
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Nov 12, 2016 04:49
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Zikan posted:cool Keith Ellison, the future DNC chair, fact That's bad right
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Nov 12, 2016 04:53
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Venom Snake posted:The Clinton would start a Nuclear War talking point isn't true just because Trump won. It's not just that. The Russian military and the anti-air assets they provided to Syria are no joke. It wouldn't have been like bombing Libya.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:53
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:That's bad right Nah it's cool
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Nov 12, 2016 04:55
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Vice President-Elect Pence to Take Over Trump Transition Effort New York Times - 1 hour ago http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/us/politics/trump-cabinet.html Oh god this rear end in a top hat really isn't interested in being president is he? Gonna let Mike "Abortion Funeral" Pence run the show
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Nov 12, 2016 04:55
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mrmcd posted:Geopolitics and armed conflict is a brutal business that either slowly grinds away at your soul, or turns you into a full blown Sith Lord like Kissenger who lives for that poo poo. The Trumpsists won't be the last to throw innocents under the bus in units of (10^5 human lives). 
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Nov 12, 2016 04:55
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in the context of a democratic politician it's fantastic
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Nov 12, 2016 04:54
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:That's bad right it's bad if you're a neoliberal 
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Nov 12, 2016 04:54
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https://twitter.com/editoremilye/status/797243415922515970
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Nov 12, 2016 04:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's not just that. The Russian military and the anti-air assets they provided to Syria are no joke. It wouldn't have been like bombing Libya. This is the entire thing. Someone should have looked at a map and said "Syria is the Russian's only Mediterranean port, they're not going to let Assad fall. Sorry for those dudes." Russia has strategic skin in the game, we don't.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:57
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Fast Luck posted:Vice President-Elect Pence to Take Over Trump Transition Effort Now he can cause a national HIV outbreak. Buy a fleshlight, buy a dildo.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm being hard on you here because you have to care. Entangling ourselves in alliances with militarized reactionary states out of geopolitical convenience is part of why the Middle East became such a poo poo show. The United States doesn't act abroad out of genuine humanitarian interest, that's a tool exploited to further the imperial interests of capital. I don't care right now because Trump is going to do a lot of horrible, horrible things and it's going to make it really hard to unfuck. He's going to piss on the worlds head and we are going to be stuck holding the bag.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:57
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the mid east is pretty much a century long chain of terrible decisions leading to horrifying bloodshed leading to more terrible decisions
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Nov 12, 2016 04:57
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Fast Luck posted:Vice President-Elect Pence to Take Over Trump Transition Effort That's the deal he promised Kasich. He handles domestic and foreign policy, while Trump handles "making America great again." It's not good. It's, in fact, very bad. A Trump administration will just be Congressional republicans running things, but if the Democrats are able to emerge with real ideas and a real vision for how to make things better, we might have a chance to stop some of this. Grondoth has issued a correction as of 05:01 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 04:58
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Fast Luck posted:Y'all really get offended by that sort of stuff very very selectively. Saudi Arabia is as totalitarian as all get out and is bombing Yemen right now. Not just double tapping funerals killing hundreds, but bombing agricultural regions to deliberately starve the people there. Yet I don't hear the word "genocide" thrown around about the Saudis? In fact they seem to be our friends. And yeah that's actually probably why you don't hear anyone talking about them. And yet we hear about Assad nonstop despite the fact that half Aleppo literally is being held by Al Qaeda. We blew the gently caress out of ISIS cities in Iraq you know, the media response to similar situations in terms of Iraq/Syria/Saudi Arabia/Yemen is insane. I was making jokes that Yemen was going to be to Hillary and Syria what Vietnam was for JFK and Laos... something he didn't expect that turned into an even bigger clusterfuck. Now? Heck if I know what's happening next. Is Trump a true isolationist? Was that all bullshit? Who knows. But Hillary's continued actions overseas were going to blow up in our face through domestic terrorism here, and that just ratchets up the xenophobia which leads to Trumps. The DNC was going to have to have a reckoning about their foreign policy eventually, and Bernie really didn't do enough about that conversation. One thing is for sure, we can't have people like Howard Dean, who talked about Iran as "not Islam" (whatever the gently caress that means) while dismissing Arabia's problems as "some civil rights concerns", representing the DNC. I want him as out as the Clintons now are.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:58
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hailthefish posted:Gonna interrupt mideast chat here for a sec with a little spitballing. This is undeniably true but ultimately inconsequential because yes, die hard Republicans were going to vote Republican, even if they weren't that enamored with their presidential candidate. And yes, Hillary certainly energized the Republican base. She was easily the best GOTV tactic for the GOP that you could imagine. I can't think of anyone more toxic they could've run.
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Nov 12, 2016 05:00
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big juicy nectarine posted:I was making jokes that Yemen was going to be to Hillary and Syria what Vietnam was for JFK and Laos... something he didn't expect that turned into an even bigger clusterfuck. Now? Heck if I know what's happening next. Is Trump a true isolationist? Was that all bullshit? Who knows.
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Nov 12, 2016 05:01
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Proud Christian Mom posted:This is the entire thing. Someone should have looked at a map and said "Syria is the Russian's only Mediterranean port, they're not going to let Assad fall. Sorry for those dudes." Russia has strategic skin in the game, we don't. Congratulations, you are better informed than the entirety of the Obama administration.
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Nov 12, 2016 05:02
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Venom Snake posted:The Clinton would start a Nuclear War talking point isn't true just because Trump won. Her stated policy was a No-Fly Zone in Syria, which Russia would not have agreed to. Their whole reason to be in Syria is to defend the only naval base on the Mediterranean, and they are not giving that up. Period. So the best case scenario would have been the second American political defeat in Syria at the hands of Russia, worst case scenario would have been Russian jets ignoring the No-Fly Zone and forcing Clinton to make a hard choice. If she enforced that policy and we shot a Russian fighter down, we would be in a shooting war with Russia. No one is saying that she would have initiated a nuclear first strike, but plenty are criticizing her for having a stated policy that could lead to an armed struggle with a powerful and nuclear armed nation. Contrast that to the Democratic claims swinging wildly between Trump being in the back pocket of Russia or literally launching a first strike for no reason, and you can see why people think Clinton was more likely to start a major war over Trump.
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Nov 12, 2016 05:02
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big juicy nectarine posted:I was making jokes that Yemen was going to be to Hillary and Syria what Vietnam was for JFK and Laos... something he didn't expect that turned into an even bigger clusterfuck. Now? Heck if I know what's happening next. Is Trump a true isolationist? Was that all bullshit? Who knows. Got to keep that MEK money flowing in. Honestly foreign policy is incredibly isolated from electoral politics isn't it? Post-Vietnam and Church hearings the intelligence agencies and Pentagon seem to have been pretty successful in maintaining policy continuity though administrations and Congresses.
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Nov 12, 2016 05:07
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VikingSkull posted:Her stated policy was a No-Fly Zone in Syria, which Russia would not have agreed to. Their whole reason to be in Syria is to defend the only naval base on the Mediterranean, and they are not giving that up. Period. So the best case scenario would have been the second American political defeat in Syria at the hands of Russia, worst case scenario would have been Russian jets ignoring the No-Fly Zone and forcing Clinton to make a hard choice. If she enforced that policy and we shot a Russian fighter down, we would be in a shooting war with Russia. True, but Trump will almost certainly let a few neocons slither back in and start a fun little war or two FOR FREEDOM AND THE CAPITALIST WAY. If you thought GWB's CIA of yes men huffing their own farts so hard every truck in Iraq was a mobile weapons lab and Chalabi was the Iraqi Nelson mandela was fun, the Trump reign will be a sight to behold.
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Nov 12, 2016 05:09
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Fast Luck posted:Y'all really get offended by that sort of stuff very very selectively. Saudi Arabia is as totalitarian as all get out and is bombing Yemen right now. Not just double tapping funerals killing hundreds, but bombing agricultural regions to deliberately starve the people there. Yet I don't hear the word "genocide" thrown around about the Saudis? In fact they seem to be our friends. And yeah that's actually probably why you don't hear anyone talking about them. And yet we hear about Assad nonstop despite the fact that half Aleppo literally is being held by Al Qaeda. We blew the gently caress out of ISIS cities in Iraq you know, the media response to similar situations in terms of Iraq/Syria/Saudi Arabia/Yemen is insane. I loving hate Saudi Arabia
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Nov 12, 2016 05:09
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