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Mr Hootington posted:The democratic party will never be able to get white republican voters to vote for the democratic candidate. lmao
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Nov 12, 2016 17:55
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Crowsbeak posted:No, really all we need to do is scream at them that their racist and the'll vote for us. Can someone please explain this meme and the "identity politics lost" meme to me? I know Hillary Clinton described a slice of Donald Trump's supporters as a "bucket of deplorables" and some people are trying to drop retroactive slams on the Clinton campaign's alleged focus on identity politics at the expense of economic issues, but neither of those seem to be borne out by what I observed during the election.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:56
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Mr Hootington posted:The democratic party will never be able to get white republican voters to vote for the democratic candidate. Not with that attitude! 
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Nov 12, 2016 17:56
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Evil Fluffy posted:Stacking the court is so far beyond nuclear option that if the GOP does that it's because they're planning to actually create a Trumpstaffel and start killing 'mexicans' in the street. Ok, so why can't they or why would they not want to do it? What is the big downside of having control of the Supreme Court?
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Nov 12, 2016 17:58
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Quorum posted:IMO dean doesn't have to be chairman to do good work. Give him a meaningless post like the one DWS got bought off with (50 State Chair) but actually put him in charge of organizing a fifty state strategy. Man's a peerless organizer, and it doesn't matter if his politics aren't perfect if he's got someone above him on the totem pole who's better on that. I can get behind this. He could defintley help, its jsut that I think as a leader his time is past.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:58
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Who What Now posted:They didn't turn out to stop Hitler the first time around, why would they the second? Because people don't turn out to stop someone they dislike, they turn out to vote for someone they like.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:58
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Wales Grey posted:Can someone please explain this meme and the "identity politics lost" meme to me? I know Hillary Clinton described a slice of Donald Trump's supporters as a "bucket of deplorables" and some people are trying to drop retroactive slams on the Clinton campaign's alleged focus on identity politics, but neither of those seem to be borne out by what I observed during the election. The meme is a bunch of racist leftists on SA are super happy POC and LGBTQ people will be oppressed or killed so they don't have to acknowledge "no war, but class war" is wrong. Edit: This election was actually about white people realizing they are starting to lose power over the minorities they have oppressed for hundreds of years and they didn't want to lose that power. Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 17:59
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I love how quickly Trump dispelled any image that he is a outsider, who's going to shake up Washington, as basically everyone he's put forward is either a big name republican or long time lobbyist. I can't help but that's going to really piss off all those poor blue collar whites in the rust belt who honestly thought Trump what going to rebuilt US manufacturing and bring back low skill/high paying jobs they so despratly want.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:00
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botany posted:Are there detailed voter turnout numbers yet? Yeah. CNN has a site that breaks it down. The main takeaways are: - Around 18 million total fewer votes cast compared to 2012 - Non-College educated Whites voted R about 20% more than 2012 (66% vs 52%) Turn among groups (as a share of the total vote; not total turnout for each group): - White; up - Hispanic; slightly up - Black; slightly down - Other; slightly down About half of all voters said the economy was the most important issue. Clinton slightly won these voters. Immigration and Terrorism were the next two biggest issues (combined for around 38%) and Trump won them overwhelmingly (>70%) Age breakdown was mostly the same as 2012, except the under 30 vote was down and the 45-55 vote was higher than normal. Also, 11% of the under 30 vote went to a third party candidate (was 3% in 2012) The only demographic that Hillary did better than 2012 Obama in was College Educated White Women.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:00
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Mr Hootington posted:The meme is a bunch of racist leftists on SA are super happy POC and LGBTQ people will be oppressed or killed so they don't have to acknowledge "no war, but class war" is wrong. So basically just accelerationism with another face, the same stupid thing people have been saying since Bush II got reelected.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:00
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So surely Obama did better that Hillary on the economy since that was the issue of this election, right? 2008:  Roughly the same margin as Hillary but with the start of the recession going on. 2012  Actually got beat on the economy by Mitt Romney.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:01
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straight up brolic posted:it's actually difficult to find anyone saying austerity is good anymore. Even the IMF, who you think would be in favor of austerity measures given their history, said they do more harm than good. Nope, people need to stop misinterpreting that press release from earlier this year as some kind of silver bullet. That was the research arm of the IMF which has no input on the actual executive arm of the IMF. The research arm has been pumping out papers against austerity for years without anything changing. As of today the executive arm of the IMF is still very much fine with enforcing austerity through its structural reform packages. Just look at the last weeks of news coming out of Egypt if you do not believe me or literally any Eurozone country under the thumb of the Eurogroup.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:03
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Hollismason posted:So this article seems to debunk the whole " not enough people went out and voted" Because at the end of the day, white people cannot take responsibility for their actions as a country. Hell, this country can't even bring itself to apologize for slavery. Slavery. Hell, even the way they teach it is how they talk about how bad it was, but they never really point fingers at who was doing it, compared to say WW2 and the Holocaust. We don't look at slavery and Jim Crow and name the bad guy. So white people, who objectively are the bad guys, don't want to be, so they will look to blame any and everyone but themselves.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:03
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yeah. CNN has a site that breaks it down. I can't find it and the CNN site is a mess. Can you link it? Thanks!
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Nov 12, 2016 18:03
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Wales Grey posted:Can someone please explain this meme and the "identity politics lost" meme to me? I know Hillary Clinton described a slice of Donald Trump's supporters as a "bucket of deplorables" and some people are trying to drop retroactive slams on the Clinton campaign's alleged focus on identity politics at the expense of economic issues, but neither of those seem to be borne out by what I observed during the election. I am less concenred about identity politics. I am more concerned about failure to reach out to the six million who showed up in 2012 and didn't show up in 2016. Especially as most of the places we lost had voting restrictions in 2012. Yes it played a role, yes we should fight in unquestionly, and frame it as a attack on democracy and to advocate it should be treason, but it was not the only reason or even the primary we couldn't get those people to vote. Also yes Trump is a racist poo poo bag, but guess what? To these people the fact they are having financial problems and they can't trust HRC meant they were not going to vote. We have to change that. Mr Hootington posted:The meme is a bunch of racist leftists on SA are super happy POC and LGBTQ people will be oppressed or killed so they don't have to acknowledge "no war, but class war" is wrong. No its you inventing a martyr narrative, and finding it easier to lash out at people then admit the neoliberal was a bad candidate.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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speng31b posted:Because people don't turn out to stop someone they dislike, they turn out to vote for someone they like. This can't be emptyquoted enough.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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speng31b posted:So basically just accelerationism with another face, the same stupid thing people have been saying since Bush II got reelected. Yep! They most definitely want to burn it down because they are not the person in power no matter who won this election.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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twistedmentat posted:I love how quickly Trump dispelled any image that he is a outsider, who's going to shake up Washington, as basically everyone he's put forward is either a big name republican or long time lobbyist. This isn't new, though, Trump's been getting away with this all along. He openly contradicts his own party and his own running mate at every turn. It's possible it will play differently now that he's made it all the way, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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fknlo posted:2012
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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fknlo posted:So surely Obama did better that Hillary on the economy since that was the issue of this election, right? I think you guys are missing that "The Economy" means "Wil I personally make more money", not "Will Economic Health Increase For Everyone (Including (Hopefully But Potentially Not) Me)" to most voters.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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Evil Fluffy posted:Is there even a remote chance that the Democrats are ever going to push to have the EC abolished since it's outdated as gently caress and has now twice in less than 2 decades resulted in a POTUS that the majority of the country doesn't actually want? Making the wall would be about 10-20 billion, not hundreds of billions. https://youtu.be/dlm5kxVGYsw Edit. I still don't think it'll happen, or that it's a smart financial decision, particularly considering land preparation and upkeep.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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Crowsbeak posted:No, really all we need to do is scream at them that their racist and the'll vote for us. Mr Hootington posted:The democratic party will never be able to get white republican voters to vote for the democratic candidate. gently caress you.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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Mr Hootington posted:The meme is a bunch of racist leftists on SA are super happy POC and LGBTQ people will be oppressed or killed so they don't have to acknowledge "no war, but class war" is wrong. And much like any meme, it's horseshit.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:05
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Crowsbeak posted:No its you inventing a martyr narrative, and finding it easier to lash out at people then admit the neoliberal was a bad candidate. Hillary was a bad candidate and Bernie was not going to win.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:05
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botany posted:I have faith the Dems won't run the least popular candidate in the history of polling twice in a row. I don't
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Nov 12, 2016 18:06
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botany posted:I can't find it and the CNN site is a mess. Can you link it? Thanks! CNN's updated exit polls of 25,000 voters. http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/national/president
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Nov 12, 2016 18:07
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Cugel the Clever posted:This. People love to be labelled and told to shut the gently caress up. It really wins them over to our way of thinking and doesn't at all ensure that they dig in their heels. The people who were thinking about voting Trump are now dug in and loving steaming about crooked Hillary and her surrogates trying to shame them into submission, and meanwhile Democrats are put off because they see just a bunch of stern Jesuit catechists where their candidate should be.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:07
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negromancer posted:Because at the end of the day, white people cannot take responsibility for their actions as a country. Hell, this country can't even bring itself to apologize for slavery. 'white people are the bad guys " because Trump got elected? Yeah, gently caress off buddy.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:07
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Cugel the Clever posted:This. People love to be labelled and told to shut the gently caress up. It really wins them over to our way of thinking and doesn't at all ensure that they dig in their heels. No, you see, the liberals should continue crying wolf at every turn, simplifying the discourse so that everyone that doesn't have RIGHT OPINIONS is marked as a Nazi or a person who hates women. It's clearly a useful thing that paid off this past election. Edit. Sorry for double post. Thought it was editing.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:09
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This is probably going to go on in more august halls than this one, but I do hope people start volunteering more for their political parties. I am going to be joining my own one over in my country to try and change it, hopefully for the better, because this can show us the danger of complacency.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:11
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negromancer posted:Because at the end of the day, white people cannot take responsibility for their actions as a country. Hell, this country can't even bring itself to apologize for slavery. Literally everybody itt is blaming white guys, just not 100% of all white guys.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:11
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Crowsbeak posted:No, really all we need to do is scream at them that their racist and the'll vote for us. Just because you're willing to let minorities suffer doesn't mean the rest of us are.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:11
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:CNN's updated exit polls of 25,000 voters. Thank you!
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Nov 12, 2016 18:11
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twistedmentat posted:I love how quickly Trump dispelled any image that he is a outsider, who's going to shake up Washington, as basically everyone he's put forward is either a big name republican or long time lobbyist. Mr Hootington posted:Hillary was a bad candidate and Bernie was not going to win. We will never know. But we do know that keeping to your martyr complex and screaming at people for deciding to not vote isn't going to win us anything. So you can learn to be constructive. Tatsuta Age posted:I think you guys are missing that "The Economy" means "Wil I personally make more money", not "Will Economic Health Increase For Everyone (Including (Hopefully But Potentially Not) Me)" to most voters. Who What Now posted:Just because you're willing to let minorities suffer doesn't mean the rest of us are. Screaming at people you're racist for not voting in 2016, doesn't actually get them to vote the fasist out of office. Sorry you can't understand this. Actually it makes it more likely we get more years of minorities being hurt. But then we should put your righteous indignation over real change. That is what you argue for. All you want to to stir poo poo up, and drat the consequences as long as you get to be "smugbert: over this thats all that matters. Frankly you're a liability to minorities. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 18:11
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Also, Trump actually won the under 30 vote among whites and almost tied union members. lol
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Nov 12, 2016 18:12
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Who What Now posted:Just because you're willing to let minorities suffer doesn't mean the rest of us are. So, tell me, what have you actually done? Besides calling people that disagree with you racist.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:12
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Who What Now posted:Just because you're willing to let minorities suffer doesn't mean the rest of us are. By strengthening the GOP you are not helping poo poo.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:13
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Non Serviam posted:'white people are the bad guys " because Trump got elected? White people are the bad guys. They still turned out for trump who was running on a platform of loving over POC more than WWC. White moderates decided to not turn out for Hillary. White leftists decided to vote third party, joke write ins, or stayed home because Hillary wasn't pure enough. If they had given a poo poo about class war they would have voted Hillary. White people are the problem.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:14
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Crowsbeak posted:I am less concenred about identity politics. No, you full on don't care about the lives of non-white and LGBT people. At least have the decency to own it.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:14
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Crowsbeak posted:No, really all we need to do is scream at them that their racist and the'll vote for us. This will either actually work or at least not hurt. Maybe not screaming at individuals that they are racist ala Facebook, but insisting that racism is a real problem (and it benefits republicans, so we should resist it) is a winning strategy. It depresses turnout on the other side and energizes democrats if used correctly. We don't give a poo poo if dyed in the wool Republicans will vote for a dem candidate, we just want the wafflers and racists to stay home, and dem base to come home. Depressing R turnout traditionally isn't super effective, but as long as it's also energizing the right pieces of the dem base, it's good. speng31b fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 18:15
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