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Feel-good memory time, remember Ted Cruz's "filibuster" 
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Nov 12, 2016 17:30
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NumberLast posted:Remember when people on this forum said any form of voting outside fptp is regressive and bad? When was this? Edit: Even if someone was for closed primaries who pays dues to the major parties?
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Nov 12, 2016 17:32
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I see two possible paths on the filibuster: A. Rand Paul and Jeff Flake and maybe one or two other Republicans align with the Dems to change abolishing the filibuster to restricting it from being used on items on the President's executive calendar, like confirming appointments. This would leave a legislative only filibuster that the GOP would override with reconciliation whenever necessary. B. McConnell kills the filibuster outright and the Senate becomes purely majoritarian like the House. There is no C. The filibuster continues as is. The GOP knows too well how powerful the current filibuster is. Also, if A is the choice, expect tinkering like going from 60 Yes votes to invoke cloture to needing 41 No votes to kill cloture (i.e. in the current system, abstentions count as votes to filibuster, after this change, abstentions would count as votes to end the filibuster).
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Nov 12, 2016 17:33
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lol i forgot trump tweeted this after romneys loss https://twitter.com/jfgesp/status/266076649974546433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw looks like he deleted the tweet though
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Nov 12, 2016 17:36
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loquacius posted:Feel-good memory time, remember Ted Cruz's "filibuster" Fillibuster of the communist manifesto never.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:37
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:has anyone posted Bernie's op ed in here yet, cus its pretty good I know some people think Bernie is bending the knee but I see him as challenging Trump to uphold the populist part of his campaign promises and setting the Bernie wing of the party up to be an opposition party if he doesn't. He's not giving in, he's setting himself up to do good.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:38
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Thoguh posted:I know some people think Bernie is bending the knee but I see him as challenging Trump to uphold the populist part of his campaign promises and setting the Bernie wing of the party up to be an opposition party if he doesn't. He's not giving in, he's setting himself up to do good. yeah he said on some public radio station the same day that he doesn't expect Trump to fulfill any of his promises to the working class. He's setting Trump up to fail so he can rub it in his nose for the next four years
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Nov 12, 2016 17:41
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Zythrst posted:Look we certainly need massive electoral reforms and I think abolishing the EC is on the list, but not the top of it. First we need automatic 18 year old registration, then Voting Day Hollida, then RCV or an even better system, maybe then we get to the EC. Besides are you really sure there are more Texas Democrats not voting then California and New York Republicans? Making election day a national holiday is a feel good idea that won't fix anything because the only people that would get the day off are already able to vote without to many problems.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:44
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comedyblissoption posted:Democrats had their chance in the 2008 congress. They had gigantic almost super-majorities in both the house and senate and the presidency. They proceeded to use this overwhelming mandate for change and an economic crisis to be what ralph nader predicted: corporate stooges. They spent their 'political capital' licking the boot of wall st and the health and pharma corporations. Wrap it up. This party is done. They had their chance, blew it, and now in the backlash are so poorly positioned that they won't be able to put up significant legislative resistance. The only resistance to be had by the left will be in the streets.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:47
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Also ditching the electoral college is never going to happen. All that does is attempt to change the system to allow the Democrats to succeed in the presidential election despite being solely a party of coastal elites. You'd be asking almost every state that doesn't have a huge population to vote against their own interests to ditch it. And it wouldn't do anything to fix the fact that Republicans control almost every statehouse, almost every governorship, a majority of the house, and a majority of the Senate.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:48
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Nov 12, 2016 17:54
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I just notes that if Trump really does pursue an anti-neoliberal economic policy, Bush really will have been the last Republican President
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Nov 12, 2016 17:56
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It's so simple really, dunno why I didn't think of it before
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Nov 12, 2016 17:57
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I mean, that basically is the premise behind a certain brand of feminism that Hillary represented. Not dismantling the old boys club, just making sure it is diverse and women also can stomp people under their bootheals.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:00
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Thoguh posted:I mean, that basically is the premise behind a certain brand of feminism that Hillary represented. Not dismantling the old boys club, just making sure it is diverse and women also can stomp people under their bootheals. Part of why she was such a bogeyman for the old boys. They wouldn't be having fun at all when it was turned into an old girls club
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Nov 12, 2016 18:04
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pathetic little tramp posted:Yeah anyone saying the idea is to finally magically appeal to those republicans from cities like Steubenville Ohio and Weirton West Virginia is deluding themselves. They will never vote for you, because you cannot sufficiently lie to them like Republicans do. Try to explain to a Steubenvillain that "We literally cannot build a new steel mill, it will cost half a billion dollars and the only reason we were able to build it in the late 40s was because we used illegal immigrants that your grandparents promptly kicked out of town once the task was done." Or try to explain to them that said steel mill will have about 10% of its original workforce because steel production is heavily automated. They just refuse to get it, and that writing has been on the wall for 35 years. But they keep voting for politicians who promise them it'll all be back any day now. That's a cool story but kind patronizing to people in those towns and believing poo poo like that is a good way to lose elections. It's almost like our government consistently follows the agenda set by the people with all the money.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:06
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comedyblissoption posted:Democrats had their chance in the 2008 congress. They had gigantic almost super-majorities in both the house and senate and the presidency. They proceeded to use this overwhelming mandate for change and an economic crisis to be what ralph nader predicted: corporate stooges. They spent their 'political capital' licking the boot of wall st and the health and pharma corporations. This is key context. The Democrats were given the keys to the castle in 2008 with a massive mandate to improve people's lives following the financial crash. The ACA was a net good all things considered but it's damning that it's the best the Democrats could do with the largest fraction of congressional seats possible (anyone thinking they can get > 60 seats is delusional, even including blue dogs). While it's fun and correct to get mad at the Democrat party some blame lies with the design of the federal legislature, especially the senate. The founders considered gridlock a positive feature of the system, and the senate's intrinsically undemocratic nature was intended as a check against populism. The downside is that its difficult for the federal govt to take drastic action outside of exceptional circumstances. Apparently the working class slowly getting ground up doesn't cross the threshold. This is the system working as intended. Also this thread talks a lot about the need for Democrats to purge the centrists and retake the state legislatures, but what is the actual platform? Unless we're advocating full communism now there's not much the federal govt can do about the steady loss of jobs to outsourcing and automation. It's capitalism working as intended. What can you truthfully offer a pissed-off ex-factory worker in Michigan? Is reviving the PWA or instituting mincome even possible at this point (this would actually be pretty great)?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:07
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Part of why she was such a bogeyman for the old boys. They wouldn't be having fun at all when it was turned into an old girls club Huh? The old boys club loved her.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:09
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Nocturtle posted:This is key context. The Democrats were given the keys to the castle in 2008 with a massive mandate to improve people's lives following the financial crash. The ACA was a net good all things considered but it's damning that it's the best the Democrats could do with the largest fraction of congressional seats possible (anyone thinking they can get > 60 seats is delusional, even including blue dogs).
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Nov 12, 2016 18:13
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Question: Does Clinton losing mean that I never have to hear Fight Song ever again? Please?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:14
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Nocturtle posted:Also this thread talks a lot about the need for Democrats to purge the centrists and retake the state legislatures, but what is the actual platform? Unless we're advocating full communism now there's not much the federal govt can do about the steady loss of jobs to outsourcing and automation. It's capitalism working as intended. What can you truthfully offer a pissed-off ex-factory worker in Michigan? Is reviving the PWA or instituting mincome even possible at this point (this would actually be pretty great)?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:15
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So are we just calling the reform movement Bernouts or what? Because it looks like it's kicking into gear. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-empire-strikes-back-231259 B-Party?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:16
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Patter Song posted:Question: Does Clinton losing mean that I never have to hear Fight Song ever again? Please? Don't worry, the Chelsea Clinton campaign is planning on using Roar instead
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Nov 12, 2016 18:16
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Patter Song posted:Question: Does Clinton losing mean that I never have to hear Fight Song ever again? Please?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:16
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Paolomania posted:It's less the ACA and more pivoting the mandate born of the financial crisis into the non sequitur ACA. Oh that and quantitative easing and bank bailouts instead of prosecutions and a new New Deal. Hush, you malcontents! Incrementalism and a regurgitated 1990s republican healthcare plan for you!
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Nov 12, 2016 18:17
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pathetic little tramp posted:you don't pay dues to be a member of the democratic party and yes it does not make sense to allow people from other parties vote in your party's primary, why would you ever allow that No. It doesn't. It really, really doesn't make any kind of sense in a two party state. And the comment was that dues should be necessary.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:17
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Part of why she was such a bogeyman for the old boys. They wouldn't be having fun at all when it was turned into an old girls club Human Resources is already this.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:19
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comedyblissoption posted:i am glad it will be forever known as the loser song. all the stupid loving celebrity endorsements and concerts dont loving matter when you betray the working class. But trump won and is already back pedaling on his promises to the rust belt and to ole Ted Nugpants.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:20
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HOTLANTA
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Captain Internet posted:But trump won and is already back pedaling on his promises to the rust belt and to ole Ted Nugpants.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:22
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Nocturtle posted:Also this thread talks a lot about the need for Democrats to purge the centrists and retake the state legislatures, but what is the actual platform? Unless we're advocating full communism now there's not much the federal govt can do about the steady loss of jobs to outsourcing and automation. It's capitalism working as intended. What can you truthfully offer a pissed-off ex-factory worker in Michigan? Is reviving the PWA or instituting mincome even possible at this point (this would actually be pretty great)? Basically, a New Deal 2.0 kinda thing, with an explicit emphasis on major revisions to the tax code and and government spending with the goal of taking wealth from the hyper-wealthy investor class to jump start the wage class economy and move people out of the welfare class. Like every-time someone proposes actually doing this, the left runs away making GBS threads their pants in fear the other side will call them mean names like "Socialism" or "Communist". What's the worst that could happen at this point? That we lose embarrassingly badly to people who are openly hateful, lying, and don't even pretend to have a plan? Stop letting rich people on both sides pretend like forcing the top 10% to take a 10% haircut is basically the same thing as the holocaust.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:23
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quote:Also this thread talks a lot about the need for Democrats to purge the centrists and retake the state legislatures, but what is the actual platform? Unless we're advocating full communism now there's not much the federal govt can do about the steady loss of jobs to outsourcing and automation. It's capitalism working as intended. What can you truthfully offer a pissed-off ex-factory worker in Michigan? Is reviving the PWA or instituting mincome even possible at this point (this would actually be pretty great)? America needs A New Deal.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:24
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comedyblissoption posted:if the private sector will not fill a void of unemployment and opportunities, the public sector must step in. we already figured this poo poo out almost a century ago. Tennessee Valley Authority this poo poo. it is absolutely ridiculous economically to have a bunch of long-term unemployment of millions and millions of able-bodied men and women who want to loving work. there are plenty of loving jobs just fixing the crumbling infrastructure of the country, and you can't offshore that poo poo. You can be sure the private sector isn't going to do anything. If the platform is "govt jobs" that's great, someone should be writing this down.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:25
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comedyblissoption posted:it doesn't matter what trump will do. whatever trump does doesn't change the fact that the democratic party betrayed the working class in these states. poo poo, you right, you right. Actually lying to them and not following through is better than not giving them hope to begin with.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:26
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LmaoTheKid posted:So are we just calling the reform movement Bernouts or what? Because it looks like it's kicking into gear. people are angry. people want the fight the establishment is broken and scared. we can win this civil war.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:27
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comedyblissoption posted:all the stupid loving celebrity endorsements and concerts dont loving matter when you betray the working class. Bingo. The average blue-collar worker doesn't know who Lena Dunham is, or give a poo poo about her viral videos. They'll never go see Hamilton, and they can't afford to feed their kids, pay their house off, pay for healthcare, and save for the future. It's not enough to tell people that "the economy is actually doing much better  " when it's actually left entire communities behind.https://twitter.com/Brock_toon/status/796427813150720004
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Nov 12, 2016 18:28
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comedyblissoption posted:it doesn't matter what trump will do. whatever trump does doesn't change the fact that the democratic party betrayed the working class in these states. of course it does. the rust belters who give him votes are not going to wait long for results. if trump doesnt show them something in 18 months, they'll be done with him. the democratic party has to be ready. thats why they are already voicing support for trump's working class promises. popular rage can be redirected.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:30
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here's a good taibbi article about the democratic party betrayal of american workers and how the claims of neoliberal globalization benefitting american workers is just as much a sham as republican trickle down economics http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/a-republican-workers-party-w433295
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Nov 12, 2016 18:32
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Oh my god, that think piece just grabbed the lyrics from "All in the Family" and stretched it out to the length of a whole article. Edit:the one about Lexington and how we all loved each other and saw the Christmas displays at zimmermans and I got a really nice pineapple upsidedown cake from those ladies in the red hat society when my poor Tim tom toppled off the latter painting the battery factory.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:32
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it used to be just that, when the democratic party was the party of landowning farmers.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:33
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pathetic little tramp posted:you don't pay dues to be a member of the democratic party and yes it does not make sense to allow people from other parties vote in your party's primary, why would you ever allow that because America is not a parliamentary system so the big two parties are more of loci for people to cluster around
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Nov 12, 2016 18:34
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