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Bishounen Bonanza posted:Nit a single person has said abandon minority issues. We are saying economic issues have to be given equal footing. Some posters in this thread are not smart enough to do two things at once. They think it's a zero sum game where if you care about other issues, it means you don't have enough care left over for minority rights. Non Serviam legitimately doesn't want anything to do with minority perspectives or issues and is only looking to browbeat people.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:44
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Nonsense posted:This is unbelievable. That kind of incompetence would have probably lost the state for the first time in decades! Good thing the most qualified candidate in US history rectified that mistake and campaigned hard in WI eventually going on to win the state!
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Nov 12, 2016 19:45
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Sharkopath posted:Non Serviam legitimately doesn't want anything to do with minority perspectives or issues and is only looking to browbeat people. Yeah, that didn't happen, but don't let that stop you. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 12, 2016 19:45
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That's a specific poster lashing out blindly and not the actual tone this discussion usually has though, thankfully.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:45
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The Shortest Path posted:That's fine and dandy except white progressives have a long, storied history of loving over minorities in the implementation of economic fixes. so instead of trying to trust them, donald trump was a better result?
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Nov 12, 2016 19:45
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Condiv posted:so instead of trying to trust them, donald trump was a better result? Considering they took their ball and went home this election because of the possibility of brown people getting just as much or more help than them, yeah, that's what happened.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:47
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Have we tried making working class issues intersectional? That sounds pretty good
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Nov 12, 2016 19:47
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Condiv posted:so instead of trying to trust them, donald trump was a better result? Uhhh....
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Nov 12, 2016 19:47
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Eugene V. Dabs posted:Have we tried making working class issues intersectional? That sounds pretty good see The Shortest Path posted:That's fine and dandy except white progressives have a long, storied history of loving over minorities in the implementation of economic fixes.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:47
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Sharkopath posted:Non Serviam legitimately doesn't want anything to do with minority perspectives or issues and is only looking to browbeat people. Non Serviam posted:Yeah, that didn't happen, but don't let that stop you. Non Serviam posted:You know what, this argument is pointless. I hope you enjoy the next 4 years. I didn't support Trump but, gently caress it, I love to see the left squirm. Did you already forget posting this you useless shitheel?
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Nov 12, 2016 19:47
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Tatsuta Age posted:Did you already forget posting this you useless shitheel? It's a coping mechanism for taking out anger but is really not what we need right now.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:48
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Non Serviam posted:So they should disregard them all as bigots? Boy, I hope you enjoy Trump for 8 years then. Just the ones that are. Bishounen Bonanza posted:Nit a single person has said abandon minority issues. We are saying economic issues have to be given equal footing. Some posters in this thread are not smart enough to do two things at once. They think it's a zero sum game where if you care about other issues, it means you don't have enough care left over for minority rights. Historically, that's exactly what's happened. It's why we're making noise about it. I've had white progressives on my rear end for months on twitter because I (a Bernie voter) had the audacity to complain about the lack of effort on issues facing minorities specifically.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:49
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Well, yeah, but there's ways to do that which will energize the non (less)-racist potential D voters. A couple million more votes spread out strategically would have meant a comfortable victory.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:49
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Eugene V. Dabs posted:Have we tried making working class issues intersectional? That sounds pretty good
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Nov 12, 2016 19:50
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Sharkopath posted:It's not an outright rejection of a leftward economic policy shifts by minority posters, just a real and cogent wariness of it because of historical reasons. I have no doubt, but increased turnout in youth and disaffected working class voters could've been the game. The really racist ones were already turning out- for Trump.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:53
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The Shortest Path posted:Considering they took their ball and went home this election because of the possibility of brown people getting just as much or more help than them, yeah, that's what happened. they didn't come out to vote because hillary didn't give them a reason to. you say she shouldn't have because they would've benefited too much from it (without giving them a chance at all). was not having a strong economic platform so that whites couldn't possibly unfairly benefit from it worth president trump? chumbler posted:Uhhh.... sorry you don't seem to grasp the concept of attracting voters to a campaign
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Nov 12, 2016 19:54
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Just a reminder that, thanks to grabbing both houses of the Minnesota, Iowa, and Kentucky state legislatures (and losing Nevada) Republicans are now just one state legislature shy of calling an Article V convention: https://twitter.com/cd_hooks/status/797480012446388225
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Nov 12, 2016 20:02
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Condiv posted:they didn't come out to vote because hillary didn't give them a reason to. you say she shouldn't have because they would've benefited too much from it (without giving them a chance at all). was not having a strong economic platform so that whites couldn't possibly unfairly benefit from it worth president trump? Actually they didn't come out to vote because impact of the outcome on minorities mattered less to them than their own ideological purity. Also minorities have very little reason to trust white people including white liberals, as this election clearly demonstrated.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:02
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At this point my only hope for America is that most politicians don't actually care about anything other than money and won't put any effort into their awful social political goals like planned parenthood and LGBTQ stuff.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:04
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Someone remind me again to what "a long history of a 'white progressives' loving over minorities on economic issues" refers?
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Nov 12, 2016 20:04
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chumbler posted:Actually they didn't come out to vote because impact of the outcome on minorities mattered less to them than their own ideological purity. Nobody turned out for her was the point chumbler why are you posting like this? Those people you are hating on for ideological purity are in the loving streets right now.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:04
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XyrlocShammypants posted:Bill Maher is 100% right, we need a nasty motherfucker next time. It's too bad the democrats cannibalized DWS and Weiner cannibailized himself by being a shithead because we haven't had anyone decent since then to combat the GOP. Now we just have Obama/Clinton style millennial nice guys and poo poo for brain drum circle folk. We're in a lot of trouble if the meanest person the Democrats have in the next few years is loving Michael Moore. Bill Maher is the last person who needs to be listened to. He is an utter garbage human being and the only reason he's not a member of the Green party is because he knows he'd be seen as the joke he is instead of treated with more respect than he deserves. But yes we need one of the worst DNC chairs in recent history, or an actual pedophile and sexual deviant who makes Bill and Trump look like boy scouts, to lead Democrats to victory. 
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Nov 12, 2016 20:04
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Sharkopath posted:It's not an outright rejection of a leftward economic policy shifts by minority posters, just a real and cogent wariness of it because of historical reasons. This is a terrible problem, but poo poo is so loving awful right now that I think pan-racial leftist coalition is all we have left.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:06
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Some of you are clearly misunderstanding simple arguments (not surprising). We don't want Weiner or DWS back literally, but we need someone who acted like them back. In case you forgot, here's what the DNC doesn't have right now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqprEihjXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O_GRkMZJn4 Or maybe you guys want to lose with Bernie the Disney Princess and his little birdy. I don't know. Shammypants fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 20:06
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spotlessd posted:Someone remind me again to what "a long history of a 'white progressives' loving over minorities on economic issues" refers? The New Deal is the biggest example, where most of its programs were implemented in such a way that they would help as few black people as possible.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:07
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Sharkopath posted:It's not an outright rejection of a leftward economic policy shifts by minority posters, just a real and cogent wariness of it because of historical reasons. This would be a much more troubling reason minorities across the spectrum sit this out, but they would be well within reason to have hated this general election which ignored issues especially important to their communities, even the majority-minority communities were depressed this year. The years prior to the election weren't exactly shining beacons of hope either.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:08
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Nonsense posted:Nobody turned out for her was the point chumbler why are you posting like this? Those people you are hating on for ideological purity are in the loving streets right now. If the outcome is so bad that they're in the streets protesting, where were they on election day? Also updated tirnout numbers seem to be disagreeing with you.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:08
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chumbler posted:Actually they didn't come out to vote because impact of the outcome on minorities mattered less to them than their own ideological purity. or they couldn't be bothered. but that doesn't make those people evil, and apparently we still need them to win. so why aren't we trying to attract them quote:Also minorities have very little reason to trust white people including white liberals, as this election clearly demonstrated. oh i agree, liberals and white liberals are out of touch. look at this idiot for example https://twitter.com/jonathanweisman/status/797120114042793984?ref_src=tw they didn't trust leftist economic policy to be part of the campaign for what reason though? if it's because they thought all the benefit would go to white people, is that worth 4 years of trump? because obviously running without a strong economic policy bought us 4 years of trump.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:08
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spotlessd posted:Someone remind me again to what "a long history of a 'white progressives' loving over minorities on economic issues" refers? The New Deal and Great Society, mostly. This, of course, ignores that the country (and thus the working class) has gotten much more diverse since then, so laser-focusing your message for white collar workers and elites is cannibalizing your own base in favor of people who are always going to be predisposed to vote R.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:09
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chumbler posted:If the outcome is so bad that they're in the streets protesting, where were they on election day? It's already depressing that she lost with the majority popular vote. 
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Nov 12, 2016 20:10
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People need to chill the gently caress out. Everybody will heard and represented within the party. Mostly because there's nowhere near enough votes without any one of the major voting blocs. Both sides have a big, red veto button here.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:11
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chumbler posted:Actually they didn't come out to vote because impact of the outcome on minorities mattered less to them than their own ideological purity. What numbers are you basing the notion of white progressive turnout being down this year compared to the past? How did non-white voter turnout compare to 2008/2012? I'm having trouble finding all the data, but the impression I got is that the Latino vote may have been up slightly, although swung more toward Trump than Romney/McCain. Dunno about black voters. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voter-turnout-fell-especially-in-states-that-clinton-won/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/
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Nov 12, 2016 20:11
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Condiv posted:they didn't trust leftist economic policy to be part of the campaign for what reason though? if it's because they thought all the benefit would go to white people, is that worth 4 years of trump? because obviously running without a strong economic policy bought us 4 years of trump. Voter suppression that came with the gutting of the VRA is a major reason why minority turnout was not as high as it could have been - and even then it was only barely smaller. Initial reports are saying over 300,000 people in Wisconsin were denied registration, and much more than that in Florida. Mike Pence personally obstructed an organization helping black voters register in Indiana and held up all of those registrations - not that Indiana was likely to have been competitive even with those votes, but it's just more of the same poo poo. Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 20:12
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I don't think you can push economic reforms and have the message be believed by poor whites without racism attached to it. I think it was Trump's fairly open racism that convinced those voters that he was genuine and that he really meant it when he said that he would bring the jobs back. I mean, I hope I'm wrong but that's the way I see it. Dems can push economic reform as a part of their platform but I don't think those poor, rust belt whites will be swayed away from economic populism plus racism by economic populism plus equality. Basically we need a candidate that people can believe in, and what says trustworthy more strongly than being willing to express views that most people will hate you for? 
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Nov 12, 2016 20:12
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Eugene V. Dabs posted:The New Deal and Great Society, mostly. it also ignores that even in the worst case, an economic platform that gives them nothing, they still get what they were getting with hillary and no economic platform. it is literally crab-bucket mentality
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Nov 12, 2016 20:12
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Condiv posted:or they couldn't be bothered. but that doesn't make those people evil, and apparently we still need them to win. so why aren't we trying to attract them Not being bothered to vote against a racist, misogynist, fascist whose administration and fully republican congress would set social and economic progress back decades actually kind of does make you evil, though.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:13
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The Shortest Path posted:The New Deal is the biggest example, where most of its programs were implemented in such a way that they would help as few black people as possible. I agree that the new deal hosed over almost the entire african american community, but can you explain to me why the african american vote swapped to democrats during the new deal for the first time since slavery
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Nov 12, 2016 20:13
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The Shortest Path posted:Voter suppression that came with the gutting of the VRA is a major reason why minority turnout was not as high as it could have been - and even then it was only barely smaller. but we're talking about the white people who were looking for an economic message and stayed home because of no economic plan from hillary. was having no worthwhile economic plan worth trump?
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Nov 12, 2016 20:14
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I have been trying to find but have not found concrete analysis that demonstrates the effects voter suppression had this election.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:14
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Condiv posted:they didn't trust leftist economic policy to be part of the campaign for what reason though? if it's because they thought all the benefit would go to white people, is that worth 4 years of trump? because obviously running without a strong economic policy bought us 4 years of trump. Because apparently there is no answer to get jobs back to rust belt as jobs don't exist, and no one paying close enough attention remembers how Nafta came about and what it entails as I was busy chasing high school pussy and alot of you were playing Pokemon.
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Nov 12, 2016 20:15
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