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Gringostar posted:full stop Tech sector employees are so spineless that's rather do unpaid overtime than unionize
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Nov 13, 2016 08:44
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hailthefish posted:God imagine how much of a clusterfuck a house of almost 7000 reps would be. 435 is way the gently caress too small, though. Even the UK has 650. 800-1000 would probably be doable. china even caps their farcical legislature at 3000
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Nov 13, 2016 08:45
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LastInLine posted:I'm not convinced that it would help anyone, though at 2 in the morning I'm hardly up for combing census.gov for evidence. While all congress is poo poo hail Satan, I think this is an overly pessimistic view of congress people. A lot of them are empty suits, but a good deal of them actually care but are just as crushed by the system as we are, albeit much higher up the totem pole. I would wager a lot of them do actually listen to their constituents, but between the current political climate of do nothing ever plus the blanket ban on pork of all kinds it's really goddamn hard to do anything.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:46
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unironically a hidden plank in the new dem platform should be to reenable pork spending if they get back into power in congress
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Nov 13, 2016 08:48
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Larry Parrish posted:I unironically think the Dipshit Hillary campaign thought Obama was elected purely on the novelty of electing a black man for the first time, and they thought they could do the same thing with a woman
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Nov 13, 2016 08:52
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hailthefish posted:And to be fair to the programmers, it's not an unreasonable fear that talking about unionization will lead to their jobs getting offshored right out from under them. Lots of young tech workers that are Anti-Union or don't care are so because they literally have never lived at a time were Unions mattered in a big way. Larry Parrish posted:I unironically think the Dipshit Hillary campaign thought Obama was elected purely on the novelty of electing a black man for the first time, and they thought they could do the same thing with a woman The Hillary Campaign was the Obama Campaign. They also brought on Sanders people to who I think (they were mostly on the ground with us, not high level staffers) got blindsided simply because they couldn't imagine people actually voting FOR Trump.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:56
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I'm curious, how are house representatives apportioned now if it's not actually representative? From what I can tell, it looks like it's based on the census. Are there just not enough?
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Nov 13, 2016 08:57
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Venom Snake posted:Lots of young tech workers that are Anti-Union or don't care are so because they literally have never lived at a time were Unions mattered in a big way. From working in tech (yes one of those assholes), the concept of "union" isn't even remotely on people's radars as something they should maybe consider.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:58
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Viking_Helmet posted:I'm curious, how are house representatives apportioned now if it's not actually representative? From what I can tell, it looks like it's based on the census. Are there just not enough? There's just not enough, so there's a complicated formula for figuring out how to apportion the 435 we have 'fairly' with a minimum of one per state.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:07
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On the bright side most tech workers realize things suck, so they'll gladly join the revolution once the California DNC manages to slam through even worse H1B laws
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Nov 13, 2016 09:08
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Viking_Helmet posted:From working in tech (yes one of those assholes), the concept of "union" isn't even remotely on people's radars as something they should maybe consider. Software Engineers and similar 6-figure techbros are really more suited to a 'professional organization' like doctors and lawyers and regular engineers. Helldesk & similar IT peons would probably benefit a lot from unionization but it'll never loving happen for the reasons already discussed itt
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Nov 13, 2016 09:09
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Humidora posted:Tech workers have little incentive to unionize because at best, they'll see better working conditions, but at a big risk of losing the ability to individually negotiate salary raises (and jumping to other companies to further leverage themselves which is what currently happens). If it fails, they get quickly replaced and become persona non grata at the other nearby companies The solution to the problem is to collectivize the businesses and turn them into co-ops. Unionization is ultimately a half-measure which accepts the necessity of private management. The Democratic Party should be starting up financial programs that'll make it easier for workers of any industry to buy out their companies for themselves to run.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:14
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Hillary Clinton called for businesses to start sharing profits with their workers, and she thought the way to do it was to provide tax credits. lmao E: God, imagine if she had run on a message of profit sharing. Jesus Christ what a paradigm shift it could've been. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 09:20 on Nov 13, 2016 |
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Nov 13, 2016 09:15
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the fact that stock buybacks are not a campaign issue for anyone is confusing the poo poo out of me because stock buybacks are like double-dipping for shareholders and gently caress over everyone else lol
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Nov 13, 2016 09:28
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The solution to the problem is to collectivize the businesses and turn them into co-ops. Unionization is ultimately a half-measure which accepts the necessity of private management. The Democratic Party should be starting up financial programs that'll make it easier for workers of any industry to buy out their companies for themselves to run. Dems in the thread don't ignore this man.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:31
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anime was right posted:the fact that stock buybacks are not a campaign issue for anyone is confusing the poo poo out of me because stock buybacks are like double-dipping for shareholders and gently caress over everyone else lol Legislators aren't paid to understand the markets, Paul Krugman is. zen death robot posted:I'm not but I'm trying to wrap my brain over how the hell this would work at my company which is based overseas but is listed on the NYSE. Are they based in a real country or a tax haven? Because we could be using the Marines to do more than just overthrow Middle Eastern countries.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:35
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zen death robot posted:I'm not but I'm trying to wrap my brain over how the hell this would work at my company which is based overseas but is listed on the NYSE. I unironically believe the federal government should nationalize the assets of companies that do poo poo like that
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Nov 13, 2016 09:37
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There are people who believe a political party is powerless to bring jobs to its constituents, but powerful enough to stop climate change.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:39
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Ethereum has been doing some experimentation on decentralized organizations with it's smart contracts. It's all pretty interesting to watch develop. That's all I really got to say about it.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:42
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zen death robot posted:Real country, has offices in multiple nations etc Welp. Progress can't come everywhere at once.  There are much more radical solutions, but the country isn't at that point yet.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:43
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zen death robot posted:Actually it's really hosed up. They're technically HQ'd in St Louis, but all the decisions come from the overseas offices where the high ups live. They do this so they can get contracts with AT&T. Oh, lol. Well in that case there's no good reason to not just seize the assets outright and compensate the shareholders. If your business doesn't rely on an interconnected global network of operations, and only operates overseas for executive decisions then it's much simpler.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:45
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zen death robot posted:The politics of obstructionism is making both of those things impossible tbh. We must combat the politics of obstructionism with the politics of mass movement IMO. I'd love to know why I've never even heard from my state Democratic Party, let alone seen a representative, despite this being one of the core blue states that got a bunch of ad money. The republicans are all over the place saying 'vote for me' and big surprise, they get them.
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Nov 13, 2016 10:00
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Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) would have beaten Donald Trump by a historic margin if he had been the Democratic nominee, according to a private pre-election poll provided to The Huffington Post. The national survey of more than 1,600 registered voters, conducted by Gravis Marketing two days before the general election, found that Sanders would have received 56 percent of the vote while Trump would have won 44 percent. http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/Gravis_Sanders_Election_Poll.pdf
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Nov 13, 2016 10:10
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although considering how off the polls were, probably worth taking with a grain of salt
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Nov 13, 2016 10:11
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Zikan posted:unironically a hidden plank in the new dem platform should be to reenable pork spending if they get back into power in congress Agreed
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Nov 13, 2016 10:14
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Remember when the Yaaaas Queen offered to pay off college tuition, for entrepreneurs. The will surely turn out the vote! But no, it was comey at fault.
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Nov 13, 2016 10:15
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https://twitter.com/Beer__Wolf/status/797059740815736832
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Nov 13, 2016 10:18
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 Weeping and shaking and breaking out in hives and wailing to the heavens "IT'S HER TUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRN!!"
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Nov 13, 2016 10:21
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:although considering how off the polls were, probably worth taking with a grain of salt
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Nov 13, 2016 10:21
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This is the kind of performative pathos liberals need to get rid of post haste.
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Nov 13, 2016 10:22
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Megiddo posted:And I'm sure that if we had months of Trump hitting him for being a socialist commie and dog whistle America First/anti-"Globalist" bullshit, coupled with Bernie's minority turnout being worse than Hillary's that things would've been so much different! Either way, I think the main thing is that Bernie was the only other real "outsider" candidate in the running, right? Hillary contrasted perfectly with Trump's message; and whenever Trump said anything her reaction was a kind of arrogant dismissal. I can imagine Sanders saying "Well, I agree with Mr. Trump, however..." And he does do that. And he's believable. Turning Trump's strengths against him, instead of amplifying them. But whatever.
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Nov 13, 2016 10:27
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personally I think the Communist!! stuff would not have been especially effective in this election, and he would have been a perfect foil to Trumps false populism, especially with the white rural midwesterners that decided this election, but refighting the primaries is dumb. The fact of the matter is the establishment dems were destroyed this election and the future of the democratic party is the Bernie progressive wing, for better or worse.
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Nov 13, 2016 10:35
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I think the Trump campaign should be instructive to people worried about how Bernie or someone is going to deal with the socialism label. You don't have to give people an education on class war or marxist history during the campaign. You have to sell a vision.A GIANT PARSNIP posted:"I'm gonna drop a factory right into the middle of this town, and we're gonna make the fuckers who sold you out pay for it!" is going to win you votes, dude.
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Nov 13, 2016 10:41
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I have concerns that the establishment might not understand how over it is for them in the party. Like, I have very little doubt that a lot of dems would still vote for Hillary in the primaries if we Groundhog Day'ed this whole election. We're going to have to be a little rough with them.
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Nov 13, 2016 10:42
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Fidel Castronaut posted:I have concerns that the establishment might not understand how over it is for them in the party. Like, I have very little doubt that a lot of dems would still vote for Hillary in the primaries if we Groundhog Day'ed this whole election. We're going to have to be a little rough with them. schumer endorsing ellison seems like a very clear indication the worst of the establishment knows what happened
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Nov 13, 2016 10:47
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That's good and hopefully it can shape the tenor of democrats going forward because we really do need people to stop with the Lena Dunham type poo poo and have a "come to progressive Jesus" moment.
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Nov 13, 2016 10:55
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Humidora posted:Tech workers have little incentive to unionize because at best, they'll see better working conditions, but at a big risk of losing the ability to individually negotiate salary raises (and jumping to other companies to further leverage themselves which is what currently happens). If it fails, they get quickly replaced and become persona non grata at the other nearby companies The current system as described was hosed over by corporate collusion at places like Pixar to prevent people from being able to leverage themselves by wage-fixing positions on an industry-wide basis.
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Nov 13, 2016 11:00
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:personally I think the Communist!! stuff would not have been especially effective in this election, and he would have been a perfect foil to Trumps false populism, especially with the white rural midwesterners that decided this election, but refighting the primaries is dumb. The fact of the matter is the establishment dems were destroyed this election and the future of the democratic party is the Bernie progressive wing, for better or worse. The President-Elect is a serial sexual assaulter and probable rapist, and his supporters just chose not to believe in any of it. The effectiveness of any kind of "communist" smear campaign would depend on just how much the Democratic donor class would be willing to lose just to avoid even mild social democracy.
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Nov 13, 2016 11:03
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The party's old guard is just laying low until they can stage a comeback. They probably saw the total gong show that was the Blairites' attempted coup on Corbyn and thought "hmm, better to wait." (They also thought "lol")
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Nov 13, 2016 11:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The President-Elect is a serial sexual assaulter and probable rapist, and his supporters just chose not to believe in any of it. The effectiveness of any kind of "communist" smear campaign would depend on just how much the Democratic donor class would be willing to lose just to avoid even mild social democracy.
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Nov 13, 2016 11:05
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