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ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


StrixNebulosa posted:

It's so inactive it fell into archives. :(

As for Cyteen - okay, realtalk, I don't even know what she could do for a proper sequel to Cyteen. The mystery doesn't need solving, and anything involving the azi / society shaping is so far down the road we might as well ask Cherryh for a history book detailing what happens in the AU 'verse.

That's really what I want to know, though! Regenesis was such a disappointment *because* it was about solving the mystery and cleaning up all the loose ends that are, honestly, the least interesting part of Cyteen. I want to know the answers to the big questions Ariane Alpha raised.

quote:

I mean, I'd kill for an equally long-equally good sequel that covers something fascinating and cool, but at the same time my heart yearns for more in the Chanur 'verse, so...

I would love to read more Compact Space books, yeah. Pride is largely responsible for getting me into SF in the first place. I reread them every few years, and I reread the end of Chanur's Homecoming whenever I need a massive dose of warm fuzzies. Unfortunately it doesn't look like she has any plans to return to it. :(

quote:

As long as Cherryh keeps writing I'll be happy, and I know I'm lucky that I don't mind reading her super-long unfinished series. The first six books make for a near perfect sequence with a good stopping point that feels finished and complete, but man, the rest of it does keep going.

I guess Foreigner does have an advantage over Taltos in that each group of three books makes a somewhat contained story arc.

quote:

(I know, I know, I need to get off my duff and read Regenesis. But before that I'd want to reread Cyteen, and before that I need to continue my reread of Fortress in the Eye of Time and then read its sequels.)

I should probably give Fortress another shot one of these days. I tried reading it years ago and couldn't even make it through the first book.

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StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

ToxicFrog posted:

That's really what I want to know, though! Regenesis was such a disappointment *because* it was about solving the mystery and cleaning up all the loose ends that are, honestly, the least interesting part of Cyteen. I want to know the answers to the big questions Ariane Alpha raised.

Ahh, I feel you. I just...man. Hopefully it'll be the next big project once Foreigner is done, but who knows. I'm a little afraid she'll write Foreigner until she drops, which...good, but also not good. She has so many neat ideas!

quote:

I would love to read more Compact Space books, yeah. Pride is largely responsible for getting me into SF in the first place. I reread them every few years, and I reread the end of Chanur's Homecoming whenever I need a massive dose of warm fuzzies. Unfortunately it doesn't look like she has any plans to return to it. :(

Chanur's Homecoming is the hands-down best book she ever wrote by my personal metric if only because it does everything I love, is fascinating, and ends on such a strong note. Fortunately the spin-off book didn't damage that ending in any way, and is fun to read in its own right. (At least...at least she wrote that appendix in...I think it's Chanur's Venture that has all of that info on the various aliens. So fascinating....and so frustrating because gosh darn it I want to read books about Jik and Goldtooth, and Kif histories, and - and - !)

quote:

I guess Foreigner does have an advantage over Taltos in that each group of three books makes a somewhat contained story arc.

Once I would have agreed with you. No longer. Books 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 - could work as a group of three trilogies. But anything after that? No no no. It's a straight series and stopping points are rare. Although... now that I think on it, if you're content with it, Peacemaker would make for a fantastic capstone on the series. It's the finale of the planetary drama, a happy note for everyone involved (mostly) and I honestly thought about leaving the last two books off for later when I finished it. (But I'm glad I didn't, because they're so incredibly good!)

quote:

I should probably give Fortress another shot one of these days. I tried reading it years ago and couldn't even make it through the first book.

First book: the first fifty odd pages are disconnected from the rest of the series. It's entirely Tristen alone and growing, and it's...you have to savor it, soak in the ambiance of the woods and how weird the magic is. Then he reaches civilization and it speeds up a little, brings back in politics and characters arguing and so on. It never speeds up to the heights of her sci-fi where you're racing through the book to find out what happens, but there's so much to absorb and enjoy - honestly I picked it back up for a reread due to how comforting it is. It's one of those books you read while sipping tea, and - okay.

Closest comparison I can think between the Fortress series and another book is the Zimiamvia Trilogy by ER Eddison. The two series are dense with detail and language, and honestly Eddison is far more of a poet than Cherryh is, but they have that same lush sensation, where you're soaking in a world and the poetry of it as you go. Cherryh of course makes it all real and gritty and you can hear the hooves on the cobbles and feel how uncomfortable it is to ride a horse for days, but in a sense, so does Eddison. (spoilers I haven't read all of Zimiamvia because it's so dense, but I'm working on it)

So - I'm clearly biased, but give it a shot again! Know that the first book ends well and you can comfortably stop there if you want.

Jack2142
Jul 17, 2014

Shitposting in Seattle

More audio books I went through because I signed up for the Amazon Audible trial and didn't realize it converted to a subscription.

I listened through the Broken Empire Trilogy by Mark Lawrence and it was... different. I don't think too many books have a literal psychopath providing first person narration and justifications for the horrible poo poo they do. At first I thought the book was utter garbage, especially when there were references to Plato/Jesu Christ/Roma Church etc. and thought... jfc is the guy this lazy of a writer. However after the reveal of Its set in the far future after an apocalypse (it seems to be nuclear war) partially caused by the "builders" tinkering with the laws of nature. Overall this made the series more interesting than insert "Generic Grimdark Fantasy Setting"it first appeared to be.

Likewise the main character is an awful person throughout the series, but does have character growth and gets less awful or you and other gets sucked in a bit to his odd charisma. Overall I liked this series more than Seveneves that I listened to recently, for one the narrator was exponentially better and the book being entirely first person it worked pretty well. Also I think the second and third books improved on the first and the series had a resolution which is nice to see it not dragged out.


Overall in regards too the more recent fantasy series I have read (listened) it is probably the next most entertaining after the Locke Lamora books even if it wasn't exactly happy.

Xaris
Jul 25, 2006

Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

Jack2142 posted:

More audio books I went through because I signed up for the Amazon Audible trial and didn't realize it converted to a subscription.

I listened through the Broken Empire Trilogy by Mark Lawrence and it was... different. I don't think too many books have a literal psychopath providing first person narration and justifications for the horrible poo poo they do. At first I thought the book was utter garbage, especially when there were references to Plato/Jesu Christ/Roma Church etc. and thought... jfc is the guy this lazy of a writer. However after the reveal of Its set in the far future after an apocalypse (it seems to be nuclear war) partially caused by the "builders" tinkering with the laws of nature. Overall this made the series more interesting than insert "Generic Grimdark Fantasy Setting"it first appeared to be.

Likewise the main character is an awful person throughout the series, but does have character growth and gets less awful or you and other gets sucked in a bit to his odd charisma. Overall I liked this series more than Seveneves that I listened to recently, for one the narrator was exponentially better and the book being entirely first person it worked pretty well. Also I think the second and third books improved on the first and the series had a resolution which is nice to see it not dragged out.

You should read/listen(? I think theres audiobook for it anyways?) to his second trilogy which runs parallel to it, Red Queens War. Protagonist is basically a good guy at heart but also a liar and coward along with a badass viking partner, so opposite of Thorns trilogy. It's much more of a hyper bro-adventure trilogy and it deals more with Builder stuff like the super particle collider/will-matter changing machine that caused a lot of the gently caress ups. I I liked it even better and I also liked Thorns a lot because the setting was ultimately pretty cool.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Just finished Tracker (by Cherryh, last current book in the Foreigner series) and it's honestly one of the best in the entire series. It got rolling early, kept going, and was incredibly satisfying when it closed. It doesn't feel like the ending, but I'm not sitting here desperate for another book - I can wait until next year.

It hit upon all of Cherryh's strengths, had interesting characters and developments, and there's so much more I simply cannot say for fear of spoilers.

But drat, I'm happy. I've been reading this series since last March when I decided to reread the first six again, and it's been a long trek through them all - but so so worth it.

One final note: I cannot believe that this is the series where Cherryh learned how to finally end books without having a bus ride to a firefight. Every single book she's ever written features the protagonists waiting as they travel somewhere - on elevators, on horses, on starships, on buses - and there's a firefight and then a wrap-up conclusion and it's over. Cyteen, Downbelow Station, Chanur, Fortress, Morgaine, EVERYTHING she writes has this.

Except, my god, for several books in the Foreigner series. They're late in the series - and in this one! - but it's so jarring not to have that familiar sequence. I like it!

Jack2142
Jul 17, 2014

Shitposting in Seattle

Xaris posted:

You should read/listen(? I think theres audiobook for it anyways?) to his second trilogy which runs parallel to it, Red Queens War. Protagonist is basically a good guy at heart but also a liar and coward along with a badass viking partner, so opposite of Thorns trilogy. It's much more of a hyper bro-adventure trilogy and it deals more with Builder stuff like the super particle collider/will-matter changing machine that caused a lot of the gently caress ups. I I liked it even better and I also liked Thorns a lot because the setting was ultimately pretty cool.

Ill look into that sounds like a good continuation.

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003
Fallen Rib

Jack2142 posted:

More audio books I went through because I signed up for the Amazon Audible trial and didn't realize it converted to a subscription.

I listened through the Broken Empire Trilogy by Mark Lawrence and it was... different. I don't think too many books have a literal psychopath providing first person narration and justifications for the horrible poo poo they do. At first I thought the book was utter garbage, especially when there were references to Plato/Jesu Christ/Roma Church etc. and thought... jfc is the guy this lazy of a writer. However after the reveal of Its set in the far future after an apocalypse (it seems to be nuclear war) partially caused by the "builders" tinkering with the laws of nature. Overall this made the series more interesting than insert "Generic Grimdark Fantasy Setting"it first appeared to be.

Likewise the main character is an awful person throughout the series, but does have character growth and gets less awful or you and other gets sucked in a bit to his odd charisma. Overall I liked this series more than Seveneves that I listened to recently, for one the narrator was exponentially better and the book being entirely first person it worked pretty well. Also I think the second and third books improved on the first and the series had a resolution which is nice to see it not dragged out.


Overall in regards too the more recent fantasy series I have read (listened) it is probably the next most entertaining after the Locke Lamora books even if it wasn't exactly happy.

the complaints of its grimdarkness put me off the broken empire for a long time but i ended up enjoying it. the first book was maybe a little rocky, as the protagonist really was excessively unsympathetic, but the second book is fantastic and the third is quite solid. i will probably pick up red queen's war soon, though given the things that happen to the setting in broken empire i'm wondering what it can do that doesn't seem irrelevant.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


StrixNebulosa posted:

Chanur's Homecoming is the hands-down best book she ever wrote by my personal metric if only because it does everything I love, is fascinating, and ends on such a strong note. Fortunately the spin-off book didn't damage that ending in any way, and is fun to read in its own right. (At least...at least she wrote that appendix in...I think it's Chanur's Venture that has all of that info on the various aliens. So fascinating....and so frustrating because gosh darn it I want to read books about Jik and Goldtooth, and Kif histories, and - and - !)

You and me both. :(

My wife actually found the Chanur books kind of a letdown because what she really wanted was to spend more time among the Knnn.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011
I read through the Chanur books and never really felt em - I find the first contact, cultures meeting nitty grittiness of Foreigner really fascinating, but in Chanur the human is pretty much there to be carted around and kidnapped and be a point of contention and I never really got the humans and Chanur stuff I was hoping for.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Wolpertinger posted:

I read through the Chanur books and never really felt em - I find the first contact, cultures meeting nitty grittiness of Foreigner really fascinating, but in Chanur the human is pretty much there to be carted around and kidnapped and be a point of contention and I never really got the humans and Chanur stuff I was hoping for.

The thing is, the human in the Chanur series is not really a focal point. Sure, he's a plot device and character and all that, but the real focus is on Pyanfar's culture and her "first contact" with everyone else, primarily the kif.

That's the biggest draw to the series for me: it's entirely about alien cultures trying (and failing) to communicate and live together. No humans dominating the scene, which is incredibly rare in sci-fi.

Which is partly due to how hard it is to write aliens and partly due to our own natural bias towards ourselves. :shrug:

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003
Fallen Rib
The next book in John C Wright's Count to Eschaton series is out next week. He gets a lot of flak here but I don't care, his sci fi stories have been par excellence. They even have less eye-rolling author tract than his fantasy books. The protagonist in this story is even an atheist despite the series having been begun after Wright's conversion - actually if I recall he may have been raised as a Christian but his mother was loving nuts and traumatised him terribly. Still some antiquated views on women (which might be a result of the antagonist being Catholic and the protagonist being raised by a crazy woman, so it's in-character) but the female character in this book has her own agency and is on a par or greater intelligence wise than the protagonist, so it's not quite as bad as the others. Actually when he wants to he can write counter to his views - in his Awake in the Night Land anthology, the story that is the most bleak and nihilistic he wrote while Christian, and the story about divine love he wrote while a nutty libertarian atheist. Obviously quite often he doesn't, and his fantasy books are infected with a lot more of that crap than his sci fi books (though I'm enjoying the Green Knight's Squire, which is a fun little Arthurian fantasy in the modern day romp).

For those who have passed over Count to Eschaton before: starting with Count to Infinity. The plot begins with a ship humanity is about to send out to a big dumb object they've found in space. The world is hosed up. Unconventional warfare of all kinds has been majorly damaging to the ecosystem. Winters that last years. Remnants of diseases from ethnically targeted bioweapons (if I recall correctly the protagonist has some of the negative effects of that, either from his Mexican or Texan side I can't recall). The expedition is staffed with the best and brightest, with the protagonist included begrudgingly by authorities, as America has fallen as a great power, with South America being the dominant power bloc. The protagonist injects himself with an experimental retrovirus to make his intellect superhuman. Sadly it's not perfectly refined and while he does become brilliant he also becomes utterly nuts and has to be kept in cold storage most of the time. He returns and is fixed to find the scientists upon returning from the big dumb object used their ship to intervene in conflicts that were happening on the earth and seize control. Various things happen, including the superhuman intellect retrovirus being perfected, and we get to the meat of the plot: the Big Dumb Object had inscriptions with extremely advanced science allowing for the development of further technology. However, by a civilisation decrypting those, the Big Dumb Object's real purpose became apparent: it signalled aliens who planted the object to give it notice when developing cultures became sufficiently advanced to be worth the cost of enslavement. Faster than light travel is impossible, so they have a long time before the aliens get there.

The main conflict is between the protagonist and the rest of the ship's crew about what to do concerning the impending invasion. The crew want to prepare Earth for enslavement and be prized slaves in this new order. Something I will note here is that the aliens are themselves enslaved to a higher order, and their enslavers to a higher order still. These orders don't all work perfectly harmoniously and are actually in conflict, and at one point it's suggested the collision of the Milky Way and the Andromeda Galaxy is part of a war of some of the higher powers, which I thought was a neat idea. I saw some correspondences here between this series, the Green Knight's Squire books Wright's currently writing (say what you will about the man but he is loving prolific), his Orphans of Chaos books (which kind of suck, do not read, they are extremely offensive and not very good) and, of all things, Gene Wolfe's Wizard-Knight duology. I'm not well-versed in Catholic theology, but all of them involve some cosmic hierarchy ordained by moral laws. Perversions of that hierarchy happen when any of the various levels direct their praise downwards rather than upwards, and that creates cosmic dissonance and conflict. What's interesting about these books is they fly in the face of that view of that worldview. Our protagonist is openly defying that order - and he's not simply a libertarian ideologue, either. While he favours libertarian anarchism, there is recognition in his actions that cannot happen if there are major divisions in wealth, opportunity and ability. It doesn't sit with my understanding of John C Wright as a nutso ideologue who will always write on note with his beliefs. Still, there are two more books to go and it could very well turn out to all be some cosmic subversion of how things ought to be in a God-fearing universe, leading to the breakdown of the order.

Anyway, the conflict between the various scientists is extremely interesting. They engage in warfare not via direct armed conflict (generally), but by introducing scientific changes which alter societal structures and life to conform to some new ideal - hedonism, theological rule, militarism, Darwinism, fascism or, in the protagonist's case, libertarian anarchism founded on elevating the population. They spend most of their time in cold sleep, with the protagonist returning periodically to seed the world with changes to foment the end of the current age and push it towards a society that will fight the invaders. The ideas and imagery in this are incredible. We are not talking small changes to human society, but instead what is 'human' changing utterly through the ages. The Darwinian world, for example, is an awful nightmare world where every creature is extremely virulent, voracious and aggressive - think Neal Asher ecosystems. The characters we see from that era are absolutely monstrous, though as they are sapient, they also lament the awful world that's shaped them, and are in some ways sympathetic. The books depicting this are fantastically fun, and, some pacing problems aside from the time jumps, are well-written.

The books aren't flawless and there's enough eye-rolling crap in here that if you have a low tolerance you might not get through them, but, if you like big picture sci-fi with cool ideas, give them a try. They're also quite fun. Wright can actually write quite funnily, when he's not ranting about Mohammedans and lamenting the Kenyan Obama ruling the country. Steal them if you don't want to give him your money. :)

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

by vyelkin
What an interesting essay, a counterpoint though, John C Wright is a human shitstain, don't buy or read his books

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Hedrigall posted:

What an interesting essay, a counterpoint though, John C Wright is a human shitstain, don't buy or read his books

This doesn't contribute anything to the conversation, sir.

Neurosis: that's a really neat essay, and I'm honestly tempted to read those books. Interesting big-idea sci-fi books are always worth a look, even if the authors are terrible.

And - as I'm rereading Cyteen, which in a huge way is about how you shape human societies through education / upbringing, these books sound tangentially interesting. I'll see if my local library has 'em, so I don't have to give any money to this guy.

Oh, one more thing: they also remind me a bit of CS Friedman's Madness Season, what with Earth reshaping itself to be more...subservient to the aliens who conquered them. That went in a totally different direction from the books you're talking about though, what with the vampire and shapeshifting alien and so on.

StonecutterJoe
Mar 29, 2016

StrixNebulosa posted:

This doesn't contribute anything to the conversation, sir.

Pointing out that John C Wright legitimately believes the natural reaction to homosexuality is to beat gays to death with tire irons is never not a valid contribution.

I mean, seriously, this isn't even a matter of "dude voted for Trump and he's kinda skeevy". JCW talks in glowing terms about the virtues of murdering people who don't meet his Christian standards.

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003
Fallen Rib

StonecutterJoe posted:

Pointing out that John C Wright legitimately believes the natural reaction to homosexuality is to beat gays to death with tire irons is never not a valid contribution.

I mean, seriously, this isn't even a matter of "dude voted for Trump and he's kinda skeevy". JCW talks in glowing terms about the virtues of murdering people who don't meet his Christian standards.

Lmao I wasn't aware of that post. Yeah he's pretty loving nuts.

The hedonist society in the series does practice homosexuality but it's not depicted any worse than any of the others, and in some ways better, for what it's worth.

Sibling of TB
Aug 4, 2007
Yikes! The kindle version of the upcoming next book is $17. I'll wait if I ever continue it.

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

StrixNebulosa posted:

This doesn't contribute anything to the conversation, sir.

John C. Wright is the dude who wrote about how he wished he had punched out Terry Pratchett.

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer
Yeah that stuff about Tepper wanting to put alcoholics in camps put me off defending her any further, people who advocate violence towards those they disagree with and bigotry in general are just plain people whose work I can skip. Especially now that the bigots feel emboldened to physically attack and harass people in the US. We're honestly spoiled for choice of good work at this point, with hunting out of print material being made easy and awesome new stuff coming out. It's not hard to not support total assholes and still be wildly entertained.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Oh.

Jesus.

Okay, nevermind then. I didn't know that about the author. Thanks for informing me, thread. :shobon:

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


My personal belief on this matter is that I don't research authors and find out if they're reprehensible shitbags before I read their works, but if I happen to discover that this person sincerely believes that the natural reaction of straight men encountering homosexuals is to beat them to death with tire irons, I avoid their books because gently caress them, they don't deserve my time or my money.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

by vyelkin
I will continue to generate this discussion every time Neurosis whips out his nerd boner for JCW.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
Not liking Terry Pratchett when exposed makes a pretty decent Voight-Kampf test.

One my ex-wife failed...

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003
Fallen Rib

Hedrigall posted:

I will continue to generate this discussion every time Neurosis whips out his nerd boner for JCW.

His books are good I make no apologies for my fully erect three inches.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006
JCW is a twat who says the rudest things, but ultimately, the worst thing he's actually done in real life (to the best of our knowledge) is "blog while mentally ill". Some people can't justify reading his poo poo, but I still can. I get it though, being Russian, there are some Russian fuckers that I won't loving read because of their politics.

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013

I normally err on the side of giving people the benefit of doubt, but gently caress me some of the things that guy's said. Does the C in his name stand for oval office?

I like this thread because it pretty regularly gives me something new to mull. It's been quite a rabbit hole you've sent me down this morning, let me tell ya.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Megazver posted:

JCW is a twat who says the rudest things, but ultimately, the worst thing he's actually done in real life (to the best of our knowledge) is "blog while mentally ill". Some people can't justify reading his poo poo, but I still can. I get it though, being Russian, there are some Russian fuckers that I won't loving read because of their politics.

If he donates to anti-gay groups like Card does, that's at least a reason to pirate, buy second-hand, or otherwise ensure that none of the money from your purchase of his work makes it back to him.

StonecutterJoe
Mar 29, 2016

Kesper North posted:

Not liking Terry Pratchett when exposed makes a pretty decent Voight-Kampf test.

One my ex-wife failed...

"You look down and you see a turtle, Leon. It has a world on its back and it's crawling toward you--"

"Turtle? What's that?"

"Know what a tortoise is? Same thing. And it has a world on its back."

CaptCommy
Aug 13, 2012

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a goat.

Kesper North posted:

Not liking Terry Pratchett when exposed makes a pretty decent Voight-Kampf test.

One my ex-wife failed...

Dare I ask what Pratchett did? I've never heard anything bad about him.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

CaptCommy posted:

Dare I ask what Pratchett did? I've never heard anything bad about him.

Advocated the right to suicide if experiencing a terminal disease (and was actually planning to give it a go after his Alzheimer's really started eating his brain, but died of natural causes first). Wright is a turbo-Catholic, so suicide isn't exactly his jam.

So, Pratchett didn't do anything bad, he just had a strong opinion on a very fraught, ethically-ambiguous, and emotionally charged subject.

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006
:gay:

CaptCommy posted:

Dare I ask what Pratchett did? I've never heard anything bad about him.

quote:

What if Hitler had been happy?

What if he had told a few jokes and smiled a few smiles? The world would have let him kill far more than he killed, and to this day we would be using some less judgmental word than ‘genocide’ to describe the horror.

We are accustomed to viewing evil, the pure, desperate, hellish evil that kills countless innocents and corrupts whatever it touches, as something angry and vile and violent. An angry man is easy to spot.

But most evil is more subtle, more seductive, and comes along as gentle as a sheep.

I had occasion to hear speak in public a writer whom I admire if not adore. The man is witty and wise, genial and gentle, and has the knack to raise a laugh. And what a charming accent! With merely a word or a lift of his eyebrow, he can raise a smile from an audience, or a robust laugh, or bring a tear to the eye. I have never met anyone more likable.

And he is a man without God, who takes a very practical view of euthanasia.
He elaborates in the comments:

quote:

It is not the author who appalled me, it was the audience, including myself.

I sat and listened to pure evil being uttered in charming accents accentuated by droll witticism, and I did not stand up, and I did not strike the old man who uttered them across the mouth: and when he departed, everyone stood and gave him an ovation, even though he had done nothing in his life aside from entertain their idle afternoons. Only I did not stand, being too sick at heart. I did nothing, I said nothing. Was this Christian humility on my part, or merely the cowardice of the silence good men which allows evil men to triumph?

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

90s Cringe Rock posted:

He elaborates in the comments:

Your post was a little unclear. I was reading your quotes of JCW confusedly wondering throughout which Discworld book you had pulled them from.

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006
:gay:

Drifter posted:

Your post was a little unclear. I was reading your quotes of JCW confusedly wondering throughout which Discworld book you had pulled them from.
I forgot to link to the actual post. Probably healthier that way, though.

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:
A person can be a shitstain but still write good books. Reading a book isn't the same as condoning what the author thinks. If you really feel that strongly about it then borrow the book from a friend or a library instead of buying it.

I watch Tom Cruise movies even though he's a crazy Scientologist because he does fun stuff like Oblivion.

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

Pew pew!

WarLocke posted:

A person can be a shitstain but still write good books.

Counterpoint:

occamsnailfile posted:

We're honestly spoiled for choice of good work at this point, with hunting out of print material being made easy and awesome new stuff coming out. It's not hard to not support total assholes and still be wildly entertained.

There's literally no downside to not reading Wright (or Card or Simmons or whoever). Even if you want to make the argument that someone should read their books because they're good books, the time spent doing that could just as easily be dedicated to reading equally good books by people that aren't human shitstains. You're reading a good book either way: why opt for the one you know is written by a massive rear end in a top hat?

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:

Ornamented Death posted:

There's literally no downside to not reading Wright (or Card or Simmons or whoever). Even if you want to make the argument that someone should read their books because they're good books, the time spent doing that could just as easily be dedicated to reading equally good books by people that aren't human shitstains. You're reading a good book either way: why opt for the one you know is written by a massive rear end in a top hat?

I literally give no shits about what the author thinks. Dude upthread said the Count to a Trillion books were good, his description sounded neat, now I want to read those books. The author's beliefs never even come into it.

So, basically: There's literally no downside to reading Wright (or Card or Simmons or whoever). Why deliberately prevent yourself from reading a book that interests you because of who wrote it?

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

Pew pew!

WarLocke posted:

So, basically: There's literally no downside to reading Wright (or Card or Simmons or whoever). Why deliberately prevent yourself from reading a book that interests you because of who wrote it?

Speaking only for myself, I feel that reading and promoting the work of such people at a minimum gives them a bigger soapbox from which to spew their virulent beliefs - no one would really give a poo poo what Wright or Card have to say about gay people if they weren't successful authors. And that's assuming you straight up stole the books, thereby depriving them of any financial support.

A lot of people don't agree with me; I suspect you won't. That's fine.

neongrey
Feb 28, 2007

Plaguing your posts with incidental music.
I can't read every book that exists. Given a choice between a good book within my sphere of interest written by a good person or a good book within my sphere of interest written by a bad person, why, precisely, should I choose the latter?

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

by vyelkin
Through osmosis you too may become the shitstain

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat
Count to a Trillion seems pretty cool. I really enjoyed his Golden Age series. It's some sort of space-opera mystery. You're dropped into this world and it makes no loving sense and it's wonderful because it ever increasingly does.

It's high sci-fi and I totally recommend it. Very Vernor Vinge-ian in its perceived/virtual reality/what is reality discussion.


I heartily recommend people read it if they're interested in non-action sci-fi. Maybe don't buy it, though.

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Cardiac
Aug 28, 2012

neongrey posted:

I can't read every book that exists. Given a choice between a good book within my sphere of interest written by a good person or a good book within my sphere of interest written by a bad person, why, precisely, should I choose the latter?

Counterpoint:
Why would you even care about the author at all?
Authors and artists in general are as ignorant as the common man, so why even acknowledging them as a figure of authority in anything but their books/art?

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