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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:lol at people who've read 18 Brumaire and call themselves Marxist in tyool 2016. The tragedy already having played out, I wonder what comes next...? you're poastes
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Nov 13, 2016 16:52
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GunnerJ posted:you're poastes
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Nov 13, 2016 17:03
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Baloogan posted:I'm glad you found an apt comparison, though the USSR was megatons worse than the confederates ever were. lmao
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Nov 13, 2016 18:21
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I wish the PSL and other groups were more organized and consolidated into a single entity. I worry that some of the people who would have been swayed to go do something will calm down if no one gets to them in these coming weeks.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:22
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i think the best strategy in the short-term is to build local organizations and increase membership in the hopes that a bigger org or movement can coalesce all the smaller ones into mass action. of course every party or org is gonna think they're the right one to do the latter which is where you run into problems.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:24
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Yeah but it's really hard to figure out a way to get people organized without some help in getting the materials, ideas on what to do, etc. Those are things that a party should help with, imo. Either way, I've been talking to people about it around here. I'm just worried someone will recognize me at my job and I'll lose it.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:27
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literally every marxist party/org in Boston meets in the same room in the same building, so it's not like they aren't interacting and sharing with each other http://www.encuentro5.org/home/ Karl Barks fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Nov 13, 2016 |
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Nov 13, 2016 18:51
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Yes, but someone keeps upper decking fourth floor washroom. It's really divided everyone
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Nov 13, 2016 18:59
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:im seeing twitter tankies complaining about the DSA but it seems like a good way to build up a Momentum like organization in the US. DSA has a lead on amount of infrastructure built that is really important for growing membership. the jacobin is pretty much their propaganda arm, and it has national reach. I've been debating making a thread that includes both PSL and DSA info in the OP, because I think there are a lot of DSA members floating around.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:01
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Karl Barks posted:DSA has a lead on amount of infrastructure built that is really important for growing membership. the jacobin is pretty much their propaganda arm, and it has national reach. I've been debating making a thread that includes both PSL and DSA info in the OP, because I think there are a lot of DSA members floating around. I think there should be a new general socialism thread anyway now that the election is over,.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:31
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MB posted:When the hell are we finally going to create a movement that looks to the future instead of the past? When will we begin to learn from what is being born instead of what is dying? Marx, to his lasting credit, tried to do that in his own day; he tried to evoke a futuristic spirit in the revolutionary movement of the 1840's and 1850's. "The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living," he wrong in The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte. "And when they seem to be engaged in revolutionizing themselves and things, in creating something entirely new, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service and borrow from them names, battle slogans and costumes in order to present the new scene of world history in this time-honored disguise and borrowed language. Thus Luther donned the mask of the Apostle Paul, the revolution of 1789 to 1814 draped itself alternately as the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire, and the revolution of 1848 knew nothing better than to parody, in turn, 1789 and the tradition of 1793 to 1795....The social revolution of the nineteenth century cannot draw its poetry from the past, but only from the future. It cannot begin with itself before it has stripped off all superstition in regard to the past....In order to arrive at its content, the revolution of the nineteenth century must let the dead bury their dead. There the phrase went beyond the content, here the content goes beyond the phrase."
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Nov 13, 2016 20:34
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yeah an ecumenical socialism thread would be neat
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Nov 13, 2016 20:34
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also check out the http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/3/ for some friendly leftist discussion when you get tired of every thread here getting dog piled by liberals. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 13, 2016 20:42
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I disagree actually. Any socialism thread should be connected to and primarily concern actual socialist organizing and organization, rather than farting on about soviet agriculture and Bernie Sanders.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:44
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We can do a new thread and keep it focused on organizing, definitely. Still, there's a lot of disillusioned liberals right now who are prime to be won over, whether that's through the DSA or PSL or whomever.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:53
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I went to a DSA meeting and it seemed pretty chill. Trying to get some of my more left-liberal friends into it. Although this makes me suspicious 
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Nov 14, 2016 00:56
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Humidora posted:We can do a new thread and keep it focused on organizing, definitely. Still, there's a lot of disillusioned liberals right now who are prime to be won over, whether that's through the DSA or PSL or whomever. yes, also lots of new babby socialists with dumb babby questions. please create a marxist daycare for us and pat us on the back as we expel the meconium of liberalism.
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Nov 14, 2016 01:02
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Atrocious Joe posted:I went to a DSA meeting and it seemed pretty chill. Trying to get some of my more left-liberal friends into it. Damnit, one of the upsides to Trump winning was supposed to be never having to think about Neera Tanden again.
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Nov 14, 2016 01:03
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Trump has just appointed the white nationalist alt-right's lead propagandist Steve Bannon to his cabinet as chief strategist.
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Nov 14, 2016 02:51
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Karl Barks posted:DSA has a lead on amount of infrastructure built that is really important for growing membership. the jacobin is pretty much their propaganda arm, and it has national reach. I've been debating making a thread that includes both PSL and DSA info in the OP, because I think there are a lot of DSA members floating around. Do it, I started this thread as a not-very-funny joke back during the primaries and ever since it's been used as a dumping ground for general socialism arguments anyway. Anyone who wants to take more than 5 minutes to put together an OP is welcome to do so.
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Nov 14, 2016 02:57
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Nov 14, 2016 03:38
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i'm really really mistrustful of dsa and not just for the fact they seem ready and willing to be coopted by the democrats. poo poo like this  gives me serious pause. if you want to join up with them and there's no other org around, by all means. but be wary
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Nov 14, 2016 06:21
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Here's a short but sweet video for anyone who was interested in the Richard Wolff stuff, or a marxist analysis in general. By David Harvey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0 "Capitalism never solves it's crisis problems, it moves them around geographically." Deimus fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 06:58
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https://www.facebook.com/sassysocialistmemes/videos/1730457880608502/
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Nov 14, 2016 15:36
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Jeb! 
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Nov 14, 2016 17:11
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Homework Explainer posted:i'm really really mistrustful of dsa and not just for the fact they seem ready and willing to be coopted by the democrats. yeah, I understand why you say that, but that's also why I think it's so important to get people who give a poo poo into the organization to prevent really stupid decisions from happening (endorsing Kerry and Obama? what? why? at least they didn't endorse Hillary I guess). at the local level, people are more interested in shaking things up.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:13
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Contemporary social democracy ended up with Syriza. I don't think it can really solve anything without capitulating anymore.. I know that's an unfair example, but really the consequences of global capitalism are just kinda going nuts. I wish more people would be convinced to join an organization that is blatantly opposed to that. I don't want to say DSA would do more harm than good, but I don't know, it might just co-opt the lefts voice of real issues instead.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:45
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Syriza is pretty much why we need to have a vibrant left somewhere outside the EU.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:47
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Fiction posted:Syriza is pretty much why we need to have a vibrant left somewhere outside the EU. we're working in it!!!
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Nov 14, 2016 21:56
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Deimus posted:Contemporary social democracy ended up with Syriza. I don't think it can really solve anything without capitulating anymore.. I know that's an unfair example, but really the consequences of global capitalism are just kinda going nuts. I wish more people would be convinced to join an organization that is blatantly opposed to that. DSA is a democratic socialist organization, not social democrat.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:58
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Karl Barks posted:DSA is a democratic socialist organization, not social democrat. Well, I'm using social democrat and democratic socialist interchangeably. My apologies. But I think it's the same problem.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:03
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Deimus posted:Well, I'm using social democrat and democratic socialist interchangeably. My apologies. But I think it's the same problem. most of the people I've met in the organization are done with capitulating. I've been to both PSL and DSA meeting and the big difference I've seen hasn't been ideology, but more age (DSA is older). I don't really see a problem with being involved in both, considering PSL runs candidates and DSA does not. convince your DSA chapter to back PSL candidates, seems like the logical conclusion.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:07
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I'd love to live in a world where capitalism benefits everyone but the more I look around and think the more it seems like that isn't the world we live in. It's grinding people all over to dust with no end in sight and I don't know much longer we can keep that up before people just decide they've had enough and try something else. Wealth inequality is higher now than it was in the roaring twenties, and it seems like there might be another big recession around the corner. I'm not sure if I'm full blown communist or not but these problems are becoming increasingly difficult to defend and ignore. The video with Richard Wolff someone linked really opened my eyes about some things.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:09
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CNN covered the prison strike: http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/30/us/us-prisoner-strike/ Blowback over the Trumpening 
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Nov 14, 2016 22:09
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Karl Barks posted:most of the people I've met in the organization are done with capitulating. I've been to both PSL and DSA meeting and the big difference I've seen hasn't been ideology, but more age (DSA is older). I don't really see a problem with being involved in both, considering PSL runs candidates and DSA does not. convince your DSA chapter to back PSL candidates, seems like the logical conclusion. Well if that's the attitude then I'm all for it! AHungryRobot posted:I'm not sure if I'm full blown communist or not but these problems are becoming increasingly difficult to defend and ignore. The video with Richard Wolff someone linked really opened my eyes about some things. Well a big thing is to really re-look at communist countries beyond all the propaganda and see what they actually did within context. http://www.invent-the-future.org/2013/07/20-reasons-to-support-cuba/ Like, I might get called a Stalinist or Tankie or something, but I think this stuff is kinda important. Like, really look at what the Five year plans and the Cultural Revolution did, too. These were backwater countries that otherwise would still economically look like India 100 years ago, literacy, healthcare, ending homelessness, a more local paticipatory democracy, 8 hour workdays, poo poo like that. Or just compare Cuba to the rest of the Caribbean, even with decades of blockaded trade and CIA fuckery. Hell even the dumbest stuff we take for granted about the dprk just source from south korean tabloids. Deimus fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 22:53
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Deimus posted:Like, I might get called a Stalinist or Tankie or something you definitely will but: who cares
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Nov 14, 2016 23:23
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Cheers to my fellow non-tankies who get mistaken for tankies.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:26
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i for one have never even been inside a tank
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Nov 14, 2016 23:31
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Michael dukakis is the only tankie I care about
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Nov 14, 2016 23:33
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Annoying how tankie went from meaning "khrushchev did nothing wrong" to "stalin and mao did nothing wrong" to left of liberal.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:35
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