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Deloria posted:I guess I could have gone to college or something. Nobody said it was worthless. But isn't it true that we're more likely to fund a dream with a windfall? And my dad was like really proud - He's a hardcore gamer like probably some of you are and his daughter wanted feckin spaceships. We're really not on the pedestal of hindsight at this point, the game hasn't failed. We're just saying we can see the writing on the wall. For me, personally, I've been in your position many times. Well, not exactly your position because of the amount of money you've put into it and so fourth, but I've been taken in by video game hype many, many times before. Every time it happened I was saddened both by the reality of the product and by the fact that, yet again, I'd failed to see the warning signs and the overblown promises. When Star Citizen was announced it sounded amazing and I backed it and was all hyped up about it. As more and more promises were made, I started to get the feeling that I'd been here before. Overhyped, overblown promises by a "great man" with no idea how to implement them. I took a step back and looked at things critically and came to the conclusion that the game he was describing would never be made and I settled on the fact that a much smaller, hopefully still fun game would get released instead. For the longest time I expected the feature list to get cut down to something doable. For a basic gameplay vertical slice to get released that we can point to and say "take this, add a bunch of extra maps and game models, and that's the game". When the PU was released I was 100% convinced that CIG was going to release a decent space game that didn't live up to the hype but still basically fulfilled his promises. Since then it's become clear that features aren't getting cut, the scope isn't getting reduced and 80% of released content is centred entirely around brining in money by selling ship concepts. This is not a trajectory towards the release of a game, this is a trajectory towards disaster. At this point, Chris has proven to us that he isn't the sort of leader who's willing to make compromises for the greater good. He will run headlong at his childish "vision" no matter what the cost, even though he doesn't even have any idea of how it's meant to fit together. I'm not falling for this bullshit like I did with Spore and with so many other games that promised miracles but were defeated by reality. Chris Roberts exists in reality too, but the game he's dreaming of does not. e:tax 
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Nov 15, 2016 14:03
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CrazyLoon posted:If I remember correctly, that was actually her BF's money back then (and it wasn't 6k back then yet) that they spent to buy a grey market Idris, that they later regretted. Now I really will stop myself, before mentioning something else. I did buy it off him for at least the pledge value in the end... but yeah it was his to begin with. He went a bit nuts on ebay. <.< Are you someone I know rl?
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Nov 15, 2016 14:03
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Deloria posted:I have complete faith in CR the developer. I just think the business side has been going wonky with the wrong prioritizations. I want it to get back on track. we had that discussion 1 + year ago and got banned for it via rsi. This isnt the first nor the last time this happens. I wish you luck but I think it is far too late for that now.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:04
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oops sorry, thought this was a comedy forum
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Nov 15, 2016 14:04
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Welcome to the
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TTerrible posted:Given you have $6k on the line you probably should have. Ok, you didn't. Now you have the chance to and are finding a lot of reasons not to.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:05
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Nov 15, 2016 14:05
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CrazyLoon posted:Jesus H. Christ...Deloria returns to SA, I miss it, and suddenly I'm one of a handful of goons that remembers when she'd already come into one of the old threads back in 2013 and the exact circumstances of how that happened (also where she posted before then moment). Oh! just read this! hi Crazyloon. Yeah those were fun times. And tbh Im here becuase it was pointed out to me that SA were pointing to a post I had written on the forums. Can I ask - are you still backing?
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Nov 15, 2016 14:06
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Deloria posted:I guess I could have gone to college or something. Nobody said it was worthless. But isn't it true that we're more likely to fund a dream with a windfall? And my dad was like really proud - He's a hardcore gamer like probably some of you are and his daughter wanted feckin spaceships.  You won't find a single "proud gamer" among us because that concept doesn't exist outside of Reddit Even if you could defend your stupid investment as a stupid 14 year old thing to do, which is fair, you don't get off the hook for your 18 year old decision to not get a refund. That's all on you, and means you're actively choosing to gently caress up your life ("I could go to university I guess  ") when you can decide not to. Admitting mistakes and taking responsibility for them is an important part of being an adult, go on and make us all proud
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Nov 15, 2016 14:07
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TheLastRoboKy posted:Yeah it was great when Sandi sent a dude pictures of his SA posts and menaced him about them. That was sure some stand-up behaviour. Deloria, do you realize how hosed up that is? Do you realize that CIG started this whole "war" by banning goons for asking the same questions you yourself are asking now? Do you realize the only reason you haven't got a 10 year ban already ($6k or not) is that goons/Derek made it possible for people to get refunds? If you can even speak your mind now on the RSI forums it is because others have gone before you and took a bullet without the benefit of numbers or general discontentment to protect them. It's people like Beer you should admire, not loving Sandi. Christ on a stick.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:08
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Chalks posted:We're really not on the pedestal of hindsight at this point, the game hasn't failed. We're just saying we can see the writing on the wall. I totally get what you're saying here. I think back a few years ago Crowdfunding was this exciting new idea and we hadn't seen the crash and burns to really understand how fragile promises can be. Would I back the same amount today? Probably not tbh. But in a way I kind of paid for the education I now have - which allows me to be more sceptical. But I'm not yet where you are: I haven't given up and I do honestly see a path to success for Star Citizen.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:09
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Deloria posted:I guess I could have gone to college or something. Quoting for laughs and tears. Lots of tears, slightly more laughs.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:09
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Deloria posted:I did buy it off him for at least the pledge value in the end... but yeah it was his to begin with. He went a bit nuts on ebay. Honestly looking at your post it seems like you don't even like the game that much. It would certainly explain why you decided to start posting in this cesspit of hate and delusion. I wouldn't be surprised to see you boasting here about your refund in a few days, which honestly is fine by me. IMO every refund makes the Verse a better place for people like me.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:09
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Deloria posted:Probably not tbh. But in a way I kind of paid for the education I now have The education being 'I have doubts but still total faith and even though I could get my money back and do something worthwhile with it, I'd rather keep it in all the way to the crash and burn'?
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Nov 15, 2016 14:11
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Deloria posted:I get the feeling you're in a very judgey place right now. Do you actually see how condescending it to tell other people what to do with their money? I'll let you do anything with your Star Citizen money you like but don't start smoking young lady or you're grounded. As an ex smoker, it's really bad for you.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:11
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Deloria posted:I see irrationality everywhere: On Reddit it was irrationality at the blind faith level.. here its kind of the polar opposite. If I'm brutally honest I think theres a lot of irrational hate here - Its a bit distressing to see all the ways people like to use cruelty as a substitute for humor: For me that is probably the most keen example of irrationality. Hey Deloria. I don't know if you remember me from the early days, but I remember you. Good to see you here (and I also remember your first attempt to visit when you were banned!) Seriously - get out while you can. That money can buy you a brand new top of the line PC with 4K monitor and a whole heap of games, and the goons are a great group of people to play with if you're looking for the social aspect. And you could be playing games and socialising NOW, not years in the future. If you remember me, you know I was a fan - a big one. But CIG have failed - and they're not going to turn it around. They can't. Chris gets stuck on minutiae, focuses on the little things that have to be exactly right, and ends up in a death spiral trying to reach perfection. They finally release something, then they revisit the whole process again. And again. And again. In the meantime, massive problems beset the current released code. The devs play whack-a-mole with the hydra, for every bug they squash 10 more appear. The devs can't fix it because of many reasons, not the least of which is the engine - but they can't change because Chris won't admit to himself or anyone else that he's made an error, and thinks that if they just keep hammering away it will miraculously come good. So Chris focuses on what he can improve - make the ships look more fidelitous, making the in game bomber jacket look perfect, show glued together demos that they can't release to the backers because it would instantly be revealed for the fraud it is, and keep praying that the money keeps coming in fast enough to pay the coders until all the bugs are gone - but they never will be. Get a refund, and get out. Play real games that exist, with decent people. CIG have supported the toxic people in the community and driven out so many of the people I would liked to have played with. I backed for the space game and to play with like minded people who were also fans. But CIG have decided that like minded people aren't wanted, so I'm going to go and play with them, even if it is a different game.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:13
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Deloria posted:I totally get what you're saying here. I think back a few years ago Crowdfunding was this exciting new idea and we hadn't seen the crash and burns to really understand how fragile promises can be. If you were to get some or all of your money back, what do you think that would mean for you personally? Like, it wouldn't specifically stop the game from getting made (if we assume that you're correct and they're on a path to success), but it would insulate you from having wasted 6k or whatever on a failed project. I think that every single person in this thread will admit that if CIG release a fun game we'll probably all buy it and play it. Why give them money up front when all it does is make you vulnerable to being left with nothing to show for it? Why not just buy the game at release like the rest of us? $130 million in, it's not like they need your 6k contribution.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:13
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:
Did you never have a proud gaming moment then? o.O I dont mean in a gamergate kind of way - I mean like actually where you played a game and thought "I don't want to be anywhere else right now - this is a fecking epic moment." I get those all the time... and I chase those moments all over the internet... In Archeage.. In Black Desert... In Crowfall... In Tera... Theres no such thing as a stupid investment because every investment pits reward against risk in a game of speculation.... unless you think we should only invest towards our pension funds? Some of us aren't 65 years old and don't need someone to tell us how to manage money thanks. I am immensely proud of my younger self for having the guts to go nuts. My serious advice to you would be go and take a few risks once in a while.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:14
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Deloria posted:Theres no such thing as a stupid investment This is objectively untrue buddy.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:16
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Deloria posted:
Okay, now i'm 100% sure you're trolling.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:16
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kikkelivelho has had the best gimmick for ages now.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:17
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Deloria posted:
okay now that is funny
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Nov 15, 2016 14:18
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alf_pogs posted:sometimes watching people get smashed in the genitals with a dream-sized football is the sweetest comedy there is. in this regard star citizen is like a Best Of All Time Vine Fails compilation alf_pogs posted:sometimes watching people get smashed in the genitals with a dream-sized football is the sweetest comedy there is. in this regard star citizen is like a Best Of All Time Vine Fails compilation
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Nov 15, 2016 14:19
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radd posted:Hey Deloria. I don't know if you remember me from the early days, but I remember you. Good to see you here (and I also remember your first attempt to visit when you were banned!) Hi Radd! Yeah you and Underpants and the whole gang  Did you not save any ships whatsoever?This is honestly the hardest part - seeing everybody that did used to be a backer and now isn't. I really wish there was something I could say to convince you guys.. But I'm not really here to do that I guess. I just came to say hi really and got caught in interesting chats.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:19
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AP posted:kikkelivelho has had the best gimmick for ages now.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:19
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Interestingly, when you read the original SC thread from autumn 2012 here in the gassed Comedy Chamber, there were already doubts on page 1, posts that siad "this will take years and years" and on page 2 someone already prayed not to summon Derek Smart lol. Many Goons backed and believed back in late 2012 and all over 2013. And if you quote them, these posts fit in r/starcitizen. Of course with the main difference that r/starcitizen still bellieves in CR while all signs point to that 2003 freelancer fiasco. Smaller scope and like 1/15 of the money back then but the same or similiar mistakes. respect maximum, Deloria, for involving in the discussion here, it is not a friendly territory because many here are disappointed or far beyond that in their cynical mind of state. While I still like the idea of SC "on paper" with all it tries to be, there is a reason that game/project was never done. And the reason is, was and will never be money, ressources or fundings etc. It just can not be realized. And if anything, the SC Project just proves why it can't be done. And while I disagree with some aspects of Derek Smarts attitudes or opinions, I think he is right when he says that the backers sunk 130+ Million Dollars (plus all fresh millions afer the next demo.avi) into Roberts dreams instead of funding smaller projects, indie devs or just other games. My fictional scenario of the chairman letter is in my opinion the only way out: Tell the communnity you need until early 2019 to finish SQ42 and you need until late 2019 to finish 80 % of the 4.x stuff and a PTU that can leave beta in 2020. This means DROPPING scope goals or at least delay them until you got the ressources and the core working. I just don't believe Chris Roberts will stop forcing 100 % modules and parts and I don't believe he will ever learn giving priorities. The Agents leaks are just hints that he does not know how to focus. He can not. And this will lead to waking up finally when the SC dream is over. So a late welcome from me to this forum as well, just deal with the flames and dissing and trolling. You paid an 6000$ SC pledge and 10 $ some years ago to "earn" those flames and beeing made fun off after all, didn't you?
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Nov 15, 2016 14:20
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Deloria posted:Hi Radd! Yeah you and Underpants and the whole gang The fact there's nothing you can point to to convince people should be fairly telling...
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Nov 15, 2016 14:20
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It's all very well for us to sit here in our crusty veteran gamer cynicism but think back to your attitudes when you were ~18. Spore came out when I was about 20 and I was hyped as hell for it. It's really easy to build up resistance to this marketing bullshit after you've been dealing with it for years and years, but I'm sure at least some of us can see our past selves in Deloria's enthusiasm and belief in the magical words of the game maker man. AP posted:kikkelivelho has had the best gimmick for ages now. He's not poo poo unless he asks me to phone my parents. 
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Nov 15, 2016 14:20
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Post advice to 18 year olds. Brush your teeth morning and night, it's far more important than it seems. If something sounds too good to be true it probably is. Don't buy a house and put the name of the person you just happen to be dating at the time jointly on the deed.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:23
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Anyone posting multiple paragraphs/posts of cringey angry reasoning at Deloria please consider the highly likely possibility that this is not actually the Deloria from RSI but someone from FYAD or whatever who registered because posting as a whale in this thread easily gets 10bux worth of salt from the regulars/ex-backers, especially given that they appeared just after Lazrin has been losing his appeal as pointless punching bag and just at a glance they don't post anything like RSI Deloria, apart from the emojis (which are a bit overdone here imo).
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Nov 15, 2016 14:24
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IPA Regulations posted:Anyone posting multiple paragraphs/posts of cringey angry reasoning at Deloria please consider the highly likely possibility that this is not actually the Deloria from RSI but someone from FYAD or whatever who registered because posting as a whale in this thread easily gets 10bux worth of salt from the regulars/ex-backers, especially given that they appeared just after Lazrin has been losing his appeal as pointless punching bag and just at a glance they don't post anything like RSI Deloria, apart from the emojis (which are a bit overdone here imo). If it is this, it's a pretty long con.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:25
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IPA Regulations posted:Anyone posting multiple paragraphs/posts of cringey angry reasoning at Deloria please consider the highly likely possibility that this is not actually the Deloria from RSI but someone from FYAD or whatever who registered because posting as a whale in this thread easily gets 10bux worth of salt from the regulars/ex-backers, especially given that they appeared just after Lazrin has been losing his appeal as pointless punching bag and just at a glance they don't post anything like RSI Deloria, apart from the emojis (which are a bit overdone here imo). ^
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Nov 15, 2016 14:26
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Deloria posted:(But in my defense it was my confirmation money - so free money to begin with). Step 1: Have rich family. I didn't get poo poo but a pat on the back when I went through confirmation, must be nice.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:26
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IPA Regulations posted:Anyone posting multiple paragraphs/posts of cringey angry reasoning at Deloria please consider the highly likely possibility that this is not actually the Deloria from RSI but someone from FYAD or whatever who registered because posting as a whale in this thread easily gets 10bux worth of salt from the regulars/ex-backers, especially given that they appeared just after Lazrin has been losing his appeal as pointless punching bag and just at a glance they don't post anything like RSI Deloria, apart from the emojis (which are a bit overdone here imo). My but that's an awful lot of being wrong all in one place. AP posted:To be fair the Star Citizen thread was in the wrong forum at the time, it was in the games forum.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:26
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IPA Regulations posted:Anyone posting multiple paragraphs/posts of cringey angry reasoning at Deloria please consider the highly likely possibility that this is not actually the Deloria from RSI but someone from FYAD or whatever who registered because posting as a whale in this thread easily gets 10bux worth of salt from the regulars/ex-backers, especially given that they appeared just after Lazrin has been losing his appeal as pointless punching bag and just at a glance they don't post anything like RSI Deloria, apart from the emojis (which are a bit overdone here imo). If they registered an account 3 years ago and waited all this time to pounce then frankly they can have all the effort posts in the world because they loving earned them.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:27
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Deloria posted:Wow that was an interesting idea. quote:I think it would tear up the community a bit. People would leave. Most would stay. In future people would be far more sceptical... He would be held to a much highe rstandard. It's bad form to quote oneself but I'm going to do it again rather than just reword/rewrite everything... MeLKoR posted:They can't even scrape up some 30 seconds of good looking footage of Gary Oldman, Gillian Anderson and above all Mark Hamill, what with the new Star Wars movie coming out, actually doing anything in the game. They aren't showing anything because they have nothing to show on that front. Same goes for gameplay, the community is blowing up in front of everybody's eyes and they are going to do an anniversary sale and not show anything that isn't R&D? No 3.0 before the end of the year? No Star Marine? Why would they be committing public relations suicide if they had any alternative? Not even Sandi is this bad at marketing. MeLKoR posted:This whole chinese plate spinning they have been doing has only been possible with the unwavering faith of the whales, they are the ones throwing money into this pit. They had no plan on what to do if they lost the faith of the whales because the only thing to do then is ~produce the goods~ and they've got nothing. Deloria posted:In the pledge thread people are blaming me for "risking the whole game by raising this issue" - but they ignore the fact that its already too late for avoiding these issues... Now is the time to address it. I hope he does because then the game is more likely to succeed. I think you would be much less charitable to whales and the "cruelty" with which we mock them. MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 14:27
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Deloria posted:Did you never have a proud gaming moment then? o.O
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Nov 15, 2016 14:27
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I dum
Spermanent Record fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 14:28
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Derek should be coming in right about now to refer to his blog.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:28
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Chalks posted:
Just read the first SC thread form 2012 here on the forums, who was *not* hyped? I think the postings in the 2014 threads started to sound different, and after the first half of 2015 most of the Goons who backed early threw the towel. And of course, finally mid 2015 Derek Smart went ramapage with his blogs, fueled by the Goons postings, leaks and sarcasm and completed by his own history he has with Chris Roberts and beeing a Gamedev as well. I find "belivers" and citizens who are still "hyped" in 2016 after all that was said and done somewhat fascinating. Even if you don't read this thread or the thread in the ED forums, you can watch and read a different tune within the pro-SC forums and blogs. CIG will survive with the xmas sales once more, but I can't imagine how the backers will STILL fund multimillions all over 2017 and keep the cash flowing with year #5 of concept sales. Mr.PayDay fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 14:30
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ffs Derek your people need you, get to work on the probation request thread.
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