Christianity Thread II: Y'all need Jesus

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Christianity Thread II: Y'all need Jesus

Arsenic Lupin: Apr 12, 2012; This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.

Pellisworth posted:

imo the most Christian thing to do is help kids regardless of their parentage, if you have kids of your own cool but it's really a loving awesome thing to foster or adopt kids.

It's complicated.

The American baby-adoption business (and it is a business) is waaaaay undersupplied; there aren't healthy white babies waiting unadopted. Cross-racial adoption has been reported, by the adult children of cross-racial adopters, to have lifelong effects on their self-image and self-worth. Adopting babies from overseas has led to horrible baby-buying rings in most countries where it's been tried, complete with children being kidnapped or coerced from mothers. The Christian thing to do for a baby whose mother is too poor to feed it is to help the mother. Older children who need adoption need special skills and patience, because children generally do not wind up in the foster-care system until their home lives are unbearable. Many parents who are capable of raising a child from a baby are not capable of raising a child who has been abused or neglected.

Saying "Don't have a baby, adopt" is like saying "Don't drive, give the money to the AudubonSociety". Some people are called to make that sacrifice. Some people can't make that sacrifice. And some people plain don't want to, and do good in other ways. There are many different ways to organize your life and responsibilities, and no one choice is obviously correct.

Lutha Mahtin posted:

A minor thing to keep in mind here is that an "infertile" person or couple is often just diagnosed that way by a doctor, so science being imperfect, this means they could in theory surprise everyone and have kids someday. See: that King of the Hill episode about Hank's narrow urethra.

The claim, as I understand it, is that all acts of intimacy must be "open to conception", or words to that effect. I'm 57. There is no act of intimacy I am capable of that is open to conception. Still, for some reason my having sex with my husband is A-OK, even though God hasn't made a woman my age conceive since Biblical times. If God can theoretically send a miracle to make me conceive, he can just as theoretically send a miracle to make the Pill not work, or the condom spring a hole, or whatever.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 02:47

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 13, 2024 14:27

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

Arsenic Lupin posted:

It's complicated.

The American baby-adoption business (and it is a business) is waaaaay undersupplied; there aren't healthy white babies waiting unadopted. Cross-racial adoption has been reported, by the adult children of cross-racial adopters, to have lifelong effects on their self-image and self-worth. Adopting babies from overseas has led to horrible baby-buying rings in most countries where it's been tried, complete with children being kidnapped or coerced from mothers. The Christian thing to do for a baby whose mother is too poor to feed it is to help the mother. Older children who need adoption need special skills and patience, because children generally do not wind up in the foster-care system until their home lives are unbearable. Many parents who are capable of raising a child from a baby are not capable of raising a child who has been abused or neglected.

Saying "Don't have a baby, adopt" is like saying "Don't drive, give the money to the AudubonSociety". Some people are called to make that sacrifice. Some people can't make that sacrifice. And some people plain don't want to, and do good in other ways. There are many different ways to organize your life and responsibilities, and no one choice is obviously correct.

Yikes, that's pretty gross. I guess I'll amend my previous thought to something along the lines of "it's probably better to adopt than make babbies but holy poo poo the US adoption system is awful."

Arsenic Lupin posted:

Again, I'm not a lady so my opinion doesn't really count on this.
The claim, as I understand it, is that all acts of intimacy must be "open to conception", or words to that effect. I'm 57. There is no act of intimacy I am capable of that is open to conception. Still, for some reason my having sex with my husband is A-OK, even though God hasn't made a woman my age conceive since Biblical times. If God can theoretically send a miracle to make me conceive, he can just as theoretically send a miracle to make the Pill not work, or the condom spring a hole, or whatever.

Hi mom! No seriously, my mom is about your age and I mean that with all the respect I have for her. I think it's a cultural universal that you hate your parents in your teens but hit your mid-twenties and look back thinking "yeah, my parents were totally loving right about most everything."

Maybe I approach the whole thing from an overly scientific perspective. I'll let our Catholigoons comment from a much more knowledgeable position, but maybe it's a more abstracted concept. P-in-V sex, discounting the individuals involved, is the only kind of sex that results in conception.

In whatever case I still don't get the distinction between sex with contraception and infertility. In both instances there is no expectation of pregnancy, though there's a slim chance it might happen.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 03:06

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

why is buttsex bad

# ? Nov 15, 2016 03:54

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Pellisworth posted:

Hi mom! No seriously, my mom is about your age and I mean that with all the respect I have for her. I think it's a cultural universal that you hate your parents in your teens but hit your mid-twenties and look back thinking "yeah, my parents were totally loving right about most everything."

I was the opposite

And no, cultures where teens are expected to live inside of a large extended family and not leave and strike out on your own have harmonious teen years

# ? Nov 15, 2016 03:55

Senju Kannon: Apr 9, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

it hurts if you don't do it right

...i rarely do it right

# ? Nov 15, 2016 03:57

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

Smoking Crow posted:

I was the opposite

And no, cultures where teens are expected to live inside of a large extended family and not leave and strike out on your own have harmonious teen years

yeah more than half my friends growing up were second-cousins, poo poo's weird

Mo Tzu posted:

it hurts if you don't do it right

...i rarely do it right

I'm going to hate myself for this, but

(explicit)

if they say they love you it slips right in

:v:

e: late night thread takes a dark turn, SIN BOLDLY

but actually, serious conversation about sexuality in Christianity is very interesting and timely

# ? Nov 15, 2016 04:00

Lutha Mahtin: Oct 10, 2010; Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

Pellisworth posted:

A couple diagnosed infertile in some way has sex with the expectation no children can be conceived
A couple using contraception has sex with the expectation no children can be conceived

How is this different?

It's different because I was talking about intent, and you are talking about expectation :rolleye:

quote:

You talk intent, but intent can be variable. Maybe the couple using contraception really wants to have children, but they're 22 and 24 years old and don't have stable, good-paying jobs able to support a family so they're waiting. Maybe the couple using contraception can't afford a pregnancy because it would mean the mother takes a year off from work and there's no compensation.

What is wrong with the intention "I plan to have children but not until I can support them adequately in terms of money and time?"

The Catholic thing is that sex is fine if it's a (married hetero cis monogamous) couple who are "open to" the idea of children being produced by the sex. You don't get to say "yeah I want kids but not now" or "there is a 99.999% chance any children I create will be born with a condition that makes the entirety of their life filled with crippling physical pain" or any other thing as justification for using birth control. As you can tell from my last example I don't agree with some aspects of this, but that's the rule.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 04:43

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Arsenic Lupin posted:

The claim, as I understand it, is that all acts of intimacy must be "open to conception", or words to that effect. I'm 57. There is no act of intimacy I am capable of that is open to conception.

Pregnancy after 50? It's more likely than you think!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_over_age_50

# ? Nov 15, 2016 05:13

genola: Apr 7, 2011

A friend of mine just gave birth a few days before her 50th birthday, so it's definitely possible.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 05:27

pidan: Nov 6, 2012

genola posted:

A friend of mine just gave birth a few days before her 50th birthday, so it's definitely possible.

"Before" is very different from "after" in this case. Most women experience menopause at some point between 45-50, and after that it's basically impossible to get pregnant. It's the original NFP in a way.

Anyway, the church doesn't say you can only have sex when procreation is possible (or else they'd have to mandate that young couples only have sex on fertile days as well as forbidding it for older couples). They do say you have to be "open" to it. The difference is that when you use contraception (other than periodic/total abstinence), you're intentionally disabling that part of your nature, which is different from it just not being in play for reasons outside your control. The Catholic church does allow women to use hormonal drugs as medication for PCOS and so forth, even if they also prevent conception.
The concern is that when you use contraception, babies are no longer a gift from God, but rather something that you order to taste when you "feel ready", which leads to a whole host of practical and philosophical problems.

I don't personally practice this teaching, but I think it does make sense. Arguably you could fit in gay couples under the "infertile" category, but that ignores that non-PiV orgasms are also forbidden by default iirc.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 07:35

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

I'm not happy that masturbation is still frowned upon. Sure, it's because sex is supposed o be an act between two loving people, but if the girlfriend doesn't mind and I sent her dick pics once or twice...

Whatever, we should ditch the whole sex thing and leave it in vague terms of moral choice, because I don't want to think too much about camming, dogging, cucking and whetever else in terms of Christian morality. Liberation theology seems like a cooler way to go. Down with the dicks, up with the poor!

In similar vein: a Christian politician shouldn't ban prostitution, but legalize, regulate and tax it, and help build support structures to give sex workers opportunity to get a job that sucks/fucks them in the rear end metaphorically (Wallmart: is it more dignified than turning tricks?). "Trolling of wannabe pornstars," while funny in an "I'm a horrible person and I'm going to Hell" kinda way, shows that porn attracts poor, uneducated and traumatized ladies.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 07:52

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Mo Tzu posted:

it hurts if you don't do it right

...i rarely do it right

Don't shame people who like it when it hurts :colbert:

# ? Nov 15, 2016 09:39

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Tias posted:

Don't shame people who like it when it hurts

don't injure yourself, friend

# ? Nov 15, 2016 09:52

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

HEY GAL posted:

don't injure yourself, friend

In years of BDSM fun I've never gotten a fraction of the injuries than I did from one day of drinking :priorities:

Aren't you the person who gets hit in the head with pikes for recreational purposes :confused:

# ? Nov 15, 2016 09:55

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

THAT'S UNFAIR AND UNTRUE.

sometimes it's swords :p:

# ? Nov 15, 2016 10:06

Thirteen Orphans: Dec 2, 2012; I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you.

I will never do BDSM because what if I like it and every time I take a punch practicing kung fu I get a massive erection. :magical:

Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Nov 15, 2016

# ? Nov 15, 2016 10:23

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Unless this is some weird thing where you can't get boners because of Jesus watching you, I really don't understand why you wouldn't want to work out what you consider most pleasurable in life.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 11:58

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

I'm not into BDSM because :effort:

# ? Nov 15, 2016 12:02

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

# ? Nov 15, 2016 12:03

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Tell us about your Balkan Orthodox fetishes, forum poster my dad!

# ? Nov 15, 2016 12:20

Arsenic Lupin: Apr 12, 2012; This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.

Pellisworth posted:

Hi mom! No seriously, my mom is about your age and I mean that with all the respect I have for her. I think it's a cultural universal that you hate your parents in your teens but hit your mid-twenties and look back thinking "yeah, my parents were totally loving right about most everything."

We were lucky; our children remained loving and the family remained close through two adolescences. The whole "I hate you and everything you do is wrong" thing never happened, and they're still living at home (thanks, disability! thanks, graduate school!) in their twenties.
e:

Paladinus posted:

Pregnancy after 50? It's more likely than you think!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_over_age_50

(screams in fear) Fortunately, I'm not on HRT.

Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 15, 2016

# ? Nov 15, 2016 16:35

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Y'all are weird

# ? Nov 15, 2016 16:49

Arsenic Lupin: Apr 12, 2012; This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.

Smoking Crow posted:

Y'all are weird

This is news?

# ? Nov 15, 2016 16:59

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

when the america-dwellers are asleep the only people posting here are the germans, the nordics, my dad, and me; that's gonna make things a little weird

# ? Nov 15, 2016 17:03

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

Whoops, looks like St. Jerome is more susceptible to :gay:

than St. Augustine (who had several illegitimate children [and one even canonized])

From St. Jerome's letters: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001.htm posted:

For I who fancied it too bold a wish to be allowed by an exchange of letters to counterfeit to myself your presence in the flesh,....Oh, if only the Lord Jesus Christ would suddenly transport me to you...,with what a close embrace would I clasp your neck, how fondly would I press kisses upon that mouth which has so often joined with me of old in error or in wisdom. But as I am unworthy (not that you should so come to me but) that I should so come to you, and because my poor body, weak even when well, has been shattered by frequent illnesses; I send this letter to meet you instead of coming myself, in the hope that it may bring you hither to me caught in the meshes of love's net.

But what is this, and why do I foolishly importune you again? Away with entreaties, an end to coaxing words. Offended love does well to be angry. You have spurned my petition; perhaps you will listen to my remonstrance. What keeps you, effeminate soldier, in your father's house? Where are your ramparts and trenches? When have you spent a winter in the field? Lo, the trumpet sounds from heaven! Lo, the Leader comes with clouds!

What brings you, a solitary, into the throng of men? The advice that I give is that of no inexperienced mariner who has never lost either ship or cargo, and has never known a gale. Lately shipwrecked as I have been myself, my warnings to other voyagers spring from my own fears. On one side, like Charybdis, self-indulgence sucks into its vortex the soul's salvation. On the other, like Scylla, lust, with a smile on her girl's face, lures it on to wreck its chastity.

I am the prodigal son who although I have squandered all the portion entrusted to me by my father, have not yet bowed the knee in submission to him; not yet have I commenced to put away from me the allurements of my former excesses. And because it is only a little while since I have begun not so much to abandon my vices as to desire to abandon them, the devil now ensnares me in new toils, he puts new stumbling-blocks in my path, be encompasses me on every side.

I don't think this is the issue at hand, since St. Jerome went on later to live a celibate life after he was ordained in his late 30s. Just thought it was worth sharing with the thread. Still digging for appropriate texts of the Fathers on the topic.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 17:08

Senju Kannon: Apr 9, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

my mom was an alcoholic when i was a kid and suicidally depressed, and she'd act out by yelling at and screaming at anyone for any reason and was just mean. She's been sober since my dad died and like she's done a total 180. that, plus transitioning causing me to let go of a lot of anger and self hatred I've had since childhood has allowed us to have an actually decent relationship. It sucks tho cause like she has no memory of the verbally abusive poo poo she'd do to our whole family, so she'll say things like "can you imagine? her own children are terrified of her. you guys were never afraid of me," having no memory of me asking my father, in tears, to not tell her about me forgetting to do a project in school and her screaming at him for not having dinner ready because he was helping me. that poo poo hurts

# ? Nov 15, 2016 17:09

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

Having a boner in public is deeply shameful. Having a boner in church is terrifying. Doing things with one's boners is generally an upsetting experience with or without a partner. There's a lot of theology to boners.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 17:12

System Metternich: Feb 28, 2010; But what did he mean by that?

HEY GAL posted:

when the america-dwellers are asleep the only people posting here are the germans, the nordics, my dad, and me; that's gonna make things a little weird

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IyAGpooGko

# ? Nov 15, 2016 17:12

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

Again off topic, but we should totally reinstate St. Basil's suggested punishment for clerics who molest children.

St. Basil of Caesarea posted:

The cleric or monk who molests youths or boys or is caught kissing or committing some turpitude, let him be whipped in public, deprived of his crown [tonsure] and, after having his head shaved, let his face be covered with spittle; and [let him be] bound in iron chains, condemned to six months in prison, reduced to eating rye bread once a day in the evening three times per week. After these six months living in a separate cell under the custody of a wise elder with great spiritual experience, let him be subjected to prayers, vigils and manual work, always under the guard of two spiritual brothers, without being allowed to have any relationship � with young people.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 17:12

Senju Kannon: Apr 9, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

Ceciltron posted:

Having a boner in public is deeply shameful. Having a boner in church is terrifying. Doing things with one's boners is generally an upsetting experience with or without a partner. There's a lot of theology to boners.

Does anyone remember the comic that goes, "Oh my God it's [webcomic artist I don't remember]!" and he goes "I. Hate. Getting boners"

this reminds me of that. also it was loving funny okay

# ? Nov 15, 2016 17:25

Arsenic Lupin: Apr 12, 2012; This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.

Mo Tzu posted:

It sucks tho cause like she has no memory of the verbally abusive poo poo she'd do to our whole family, so she'll say things like "can you imagine? her own children are terrified of her. you guys were never afraid of me," having no memory of me asking my father, in tears, to not tell her about me forgetting to do a project in school and her screaming at him for not having dinner ready because he was helping me. that poo poo hurts

Consider the possibility that she is choosing to have no memory of it. It's a classic narcissist strategy; anything upsetting simply didn't happen. Whether she's choosing it or not, she's gaslighting you.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 18:44

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Not having a boner can be a terrifying thing in certain situations! :v:

# ? Nov 15, 2016 18:47

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

thinking of you, Mo Tzu. Family troubles suck.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 18:50

Senju Kannon: Apr 9, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

Arsenic Lupin posted:

Consider the possibility that she is choosing to have no memory of it. It's a classic narcissist strategy; anything upsetting simply didn't happen. Whether she's choosing it or not, she's gaslighting you.

She isn't, because when informed of the reality she doesn't try to convince me it didn't happen but instead goes, "oh. oh god."

Also you really don't realize how hosed up your childhood was until you mention things like this and people go, "oh my god that's horrible." Oops.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 21:43

Thirteen Orphans: Dec 2, 2012; I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you.

Tias posted:

Unless this is some weird thing where you can't get boners because of Jesus watching you, I really don't understand why you wouldn't want to work out what you consider most pleasurable in life.

If this was about my post I feel the need to let you know that my post about gettin' boners while doing Wing Chun was a joke.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 22:26

HopperUK: Apr 29, 2007; Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

Mo Tzu posted:

She isn't, because when informed of the reality she doesn't try to convince me it didn't happen but instead goes, "oh. oh god."

Also you really don't realize how hosed up your childhood was until you mention things like this and people go, "oh my god that's horrible." Oops.

I can relate to a bit of this. My mother went through an alcoholic phase and there are things I know for a fact I'm the only one who remembers, because both my parents were drunk and my siblings were tiny.

# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:11

Empress Theonora: Feb 19, 2001; She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.