Maarek posted:

People on SA might obsess over this poo poo but I promise you the people in Wisconsin, MI, and PA who made Trump president would not. They have bigger fish to fry.

Blue Footed Booby posted:

Your posts are really boring.

paranoid randroid posted:

well i sure as hell dont care, and, heck, even like Sanders more for having done it.

but man if you think that patriotic, love-it-or-leave-it middle America doesnt care about that kind of thing, youre waaay off the mark

Business Gorillas posted:

zegermans posted:

lol maybe if bernouts put as much effort into electing their candidate as they do smugging in this thread he wouldn't have lost so badly.

You can't dismiss the Sanders oppo with "BUT TRUMP" because facts didn't apply to Trump like they would to politicians.

Maarek posted:

It's cool that being insanely wrong about everything for almost a year leading right up to November 8th hasn't shaken your confidence in your opinions, Main Paineframe. My new years resolution is definitely gonna be to try to develop that kind of self-belief.

paranoid randroid posted:

i think it would have absolutely hurt him by making the mushball middle get all bummed out about the death of civility and compromise etc etc and lead to them sulking in their rooms on election day, much like we got in this bullshit reality

Maarek posted:

While yeah they did their best to put their thumb on the scale at the DNC the primary wasn't rigged. The primary system is set up in a way that makes it very hard for a Bernie Sanders to beat a Hillary Clinton in the first place. The demographics of the primary also skew older and favor establishment figures, especially when you take into account closed primaries. A majority of people who vote in Democratic primaries were almost certainly going to pick Clinton over Sanders, the problem is that those people don't get to the pick the President in November.

zegermans posted:

lol maybe if bernouts put as much effort into electing their candidate as they do smugging in this thread he wouldn't have lost so badly.

zxqv8 posted:

Perhaps I'm just too over the Berninator, but I really think his response to most of those attacks against his character would effectively be "yeah, I have made mistakes in the past, but I've learned and grown (insert conciliatory poo poo here) and now my entire focus is on helping to rebuild the working class in America. My opponents would rather spend their time trying to assassinate my character, while i'm focusing on the issues facing the American people"

Clinton rarely did that, and people noticed.

Main Paineframe posted:

Well, after watching everyone else be wrong about everything for sixteen straight years, it's pretty easy to have that kind of confidence. The left has been living in a fantasyland since the Bush administration, and judging from how easily the party leadership is taking them for a ride right now, there's no sign that's going to change.

Business Gorillas posted:

Sanders was a better candidate and Sanderistas are better shitposters

Potato Salad posted:

Where has this emote been my whole (last eight months of) life

crazy cloud posted:

Probably right

He probably woulda like campaigned in michigan or pa some tho lol all hypothetical at this point but who knows what cancels out what in that Berniverse

Main Paineframe posted:

The problem is that these sites don't want to moderate their content, so they knowingly let gathering places for white supremacists fester without any sort of attempt to stomp them out. For example, Reddit isn't becoming right-wing and racist. It was always right-wing and racist, because subreddits like r/CoonTown and r/rapingwomen were open for years before Reddit finally closed them down last year after they and several other particularly notorious right-wing subreddits got a lot of press, and naturally none of the users from those subs were banned so they just spread out to other boards. Racists gather on Reddit because Reddit lets them gather there, intervening only when they attract enough bad press to make Reddit look bad.

Other social media sites, like Twitter, have a similar problem. Twitter is a shithole of rampant abuse and harassment because they largely refuse to directly do anything about the abuse and the harassment, except for occasionally applying light punishments to particularly loud people if a celebrity or media figure complains too much. In most cases, these sites never invested in resources or procedures for stopping abuse and offensiveness. They figured everyone would just silo themselves off into friend-groups where they'd only see things they approved of, and use the user-available tools like blocking or downvoting to get rid of isolated bad actors who try to invade those silos, and if anyone asked "hey, why are you allowing open racists on your site" they'd just justify it with some bullshit about free speech.

Fixing the discourse on social media can't be a bottom-up thing, it has to come from the top. If the company itself is willing to let identified white supremacists roam all over their site harassing and abusing people, there's hardly anything the users can do about that besides self-segregating themselves away from it all.


Didn't Bernie promise to work with and cooperate with Trump? None of this "outright defiance" has shown up in my Twitter feeds. Though I guess a question like this is pointless since we live in post-truth politics where the omly thing that matters is what you want to think.


This is really optimistic. The establishment is shook, yeah, but the fact that they're all-in on Ellison within a week of the election suggests they're not thinking about real strategy changes, they're just looking for a quick-fix to placate the progressives for fear that they might bail on the Dems entirely otherwise. And apparently progressives are just as dumb as they thought, since it seems to be working. I guess that's the nice thing about catering to the 18-25 demographic - by the time they realize they got swindled, they've aged out of the demographic and been replaced by a new generation that doesn't remember it.


"Doing badly in elections"? Bill Clinton was the first Democratic president to win re-election since LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act, and the first Democratic president to serve two full terms since Roosevelt.

Main Paineframe posted:

Well, after watching everyone else be wrong about everything for sixteen straight years, it's pretty easy to have that kind of confidence. The left has been living in a fantasyland since the Bush administration, and judging from how easily the party leadership is taking them for a ride right now, there's no sign that's going to change.

zegermans posted:

I think both candidates had serious flaws that Trump could have beaten both with the same message. Plus while Clinton was boring as poo poo, am I the only one whose eyes glazed over by late February when Sanders recited his same stump speech for the 10 millionth time in response to literally any question asked of him?

paranoid randroid posted:

i think the mistake a lot of Sanders hypothetical make is putting too much faith in the idea that good things happen.

fknlo posted:

New Eichenwald article. I think it's pretty good so far.


Just one choice quote.

zxqv8 posted:

Perhaps I'm just too over the Berninator, but I really think his response to most of those attacks against his character would effectively be "yeah, I have made mistakes in the past, but I've learned and grown (insert conciliatory poo poo here) and now my entire focus is on helping to rebuild the working class in America. My opponents would rather spend their time trying to assassinate my character, while i'm focusing on the issues facing the American people"

Clinton rarely did that, and people noticed.

zegermans posted:

I think both candidates had serious flaws that Trump could have beaten both with the same message. Plus while Clinton was boring as poo poo, am I the only one whose eyes glazed over by late February when Sanders recited his same stump speech for the 10 millionth time in response to literally any question asked of him?

zegermans posted:

lol maybe if bernouts put as much effort into electing their candidate as they do smugging in this thread he wouldn't have lost so badly.

You can't dismiss the Sanders oppo with "BUT TRUMP" because facts didn't apply to Trump like they would to politicians.


Yeah those three debate questions were answered with such masterful oratory skill that it convinced 3 million more people to vote for her.

Al-Saqr posted:

Except Sanders wouldve campaigned on the very issues that won Trump the white house, while hillary alienated the people who wouldve voted for him because she refused to speak to them clearly and angrily about their issues.

Listen, nobody knows what mightve happened it is what it is, but at the end of the day, Sanders was proven right in every regard and the mindset of clinton supporters wasnt what was needed to win the election. So it's high time that sanders and his allies took the reigns of the DNC and reshaped it to be an effective opposition against right wing populist fascism.

paranoid randroid posted:

well i sure as hell dont care, and, heck, even like Sanders more for having done it.

but man if you think that patriotic, love-it-or-leave-it middle America doesnt care about that kind of thing, youre waaay off the mark

paranoid randroid posted:

i think the mistake a lot of Sanders hypothetical make is putting too much faith in the idea that good things happen.

SunAndSpring posted:

Eichenwald is such a loving freak, holy hell.

Business Gorillas posted:

Makes sense that Clinton supporters know what exactly makes a candidate unelectable

zxqv8 posted:

Perhaps I'm just too over the Berninator, but I really think his response to most of those attacks against his character would effectively be "yeah, I have made mistakes in the past, but I've learned and grown (insert conciliatory poo poo here) and now my entire focus is on helping to rebuild the working class in America. My opponents would rather spend their time trying to assassinate my character, while i'm focusing on the issues facing the American people"

Clinton rarely did that, and people noticed.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

It seems to me that the DNC is taking all of the right steps so far toward getting their poo poo together. The fact that Hillary remains underground speaks volumes IMO.

Business Gorillas posted:

Makes sense that Clinton supporters know what exactly makes a candidate unelectable

icantfindaname posted:

i agree. bernie losing the primary was his fault mostly. but losing that primary did not have anywhere near the catastrophic direct consequences as losing the general

the people you should really be blaming are the DNC and Clinton camp grifters who pushed everyone but Clinton out of the race because of the smorgasbord of spoils and favors they stood to collect on if/when Clinton won

paranoid randroid posted:

do you ever do anything but whine

paranoid randroid posted:

do you ever do anything but whine

Business Gorillas posted:

I imagine cspam. I found it while looking for the Bernie henget

Martin Random posted:

Did it ever occur to anyone that the current rift is because occupy wall Street, a populist economic justice movement, was systematically dismantled and turned into a social justice movement by activists interested in that instead. Occupy was the first exposure I ever really had to social justice in a protest, and I saw a lot of white working people, politically conscious for the first time, getting their first whiff of the discourse that had become central to our politics right now. They were exposed to university students introducing progressive stack to give minorities more of a voice, and all kinds of well meaning but utterly unworkable non hierarchical procedural rules governed over the lumpenproletariat by the college kids. I think that caused the rift we're seeing today, and why a certain demographic backed away and is not reengaging with the left.

A lot of the stuff done to coopt the movement severely alienated people, possibly permanently.

Then the name got changed to decolonize wall Street and the future trumpkins walked away confused, forever turned off to progressive activism.

Ring true at all to anyone?