|
NikkolasKing posted:So what is Antifa and why did someone recommend against joining them? Antifa is Anti-Fascist, whoever told you not to join probably thinks they impede on fascists' right to free speech or some liberal poo poo like that. Antifa are good and keep us all safe.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:25 |
|
|
# ? Jun 6, 2024 07:14 |
|
Rumors of Russian influence ops in Europe. https://twitter.com/JeffersonObama/status/798598839468847104 Don't know if it's true but I can readily believe it and it sounds very very dangerous for anyone opposed to the rise of fascism. I don't really know how to combat this, but it needs a lot more attention than it's getting, maybe contact reporters and call for an investigation from the government? I don't know much about European govt but I imagine most of the leaders probably don't want to be overthrown by fascists so if someone informed them they need to nip this in the bud urgently then I would hope they'd listen. Russia already played a huge role in getting Trump elected, it would be a tragedy for that to happen to the rest of the world.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:27 |
|
yellowyams posted:Rumors of Russian influence ops in Europe. https://twitter.com/JeffersonObama/status/798598839468847104 Don't know if it's true but I can readily believe it and it sounds very very dangerous for anyone opposed to the rise of fascism. I don't really know how to combat this, but it needs a lot more attention than it's getting, maybe contact reporters and call for an investigation from the government? I don't know much about European govt but I imagine most of the leaders probably don't want to be overthrown by fascists so if someone informed them they need to nip this in the bud urgently then I would hope they'd listen. Russia already played a huge role in getting Trump elected, it would be a tragedy for that to happen to the rest of the world. Nothing about this is news. Russia sponsors all and every far-right parties in Europe, this is known.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:29 |
|
yellowyams posted:Rumors of Russian influence ops in Europe. https://twitter.com/JeffersonObama/status/798598839468847104 Don't know if it's true but I can readily believe it and it sounds very very dangerous for anyone opposed to the rise of fascism. I don't really know how to combat this, but it needs a lot more attention than it's getting, maybe contact reporters and call for an investigation from the government? I don't know much about European govt but I imagine most of the leaders probably don't want to be overthrown by fascists so if someone informed them they need to nip this in the bud urgently then I would hope they'd listen. Russia already played a huge role in getting Trump elected, it would be a tragedy for that to happen to the rest of the world. "10 downing street, this is the government man's office, how can I help?" "You guys are in trouble, according to twitter user at jefferson obama, russia is running something called an "influence op" to overthrow you, you better do a double influence op real quick to counter the effects" *sound of monacle dropping in tea* "my goodness! right away sir. thank you sir you've saved england, have a knighthood"
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:35 |
|
NikkolasKing posted:So what is Antifa and why did someone recommend against joining them? Antifa are mostly cool and good and most of the crying about them being bad comes from moderate who think fascistlivesmatter and would probably think premature anti-fascism is unironically a thing.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:37 |
|
Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Nothing about this is news. Russia sponsors all and every far-right parties in Europe, this is known. Is anybody going to do anything? They have a very high probability of succeeding if no one else tries to interfere. And if it's that well-known then why don't I see any discussion on it? Consider also that you are politically active and are more informed than the average person, but it's the average person who needs to know about this. You can scoff at it for being a silly thought and it is, but we lost America to Trump because of this. It is extremely dangerous and Europe can't afford to fall any further into fascism or the world will really be hosed. Something has to be done.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:38 |
|
You did not "America to Trump" because of some evil KGB plot. Trump won because he's extremely popular with the people he markets himself to and Hillary Clinton is the leftovers from the '08 primaries.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:40 |
|
HorseLord posted:Antifa is Anti-Fascist, whoever told you not to join probably thinks they impede on fascists' right to free speech or some liberal poo poo like that. Antifa are good and keep us all safe. Heh, I get called a Left-Authoritarian elsewhere for expressing similar disdain towards that kind of "liberalism." Especially here in America where it is apparently our God-given right to say the Jews brought it on themselves or that gays deserve to die. Because "words don't hurt people!" It's not like all our Western allies have hate speech laws. But nope, if we ever infringe on the 1st Amendment even a tiny bit like Canada and others do, it's a one-way ride to a police state. Somehow.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:42 |
|
yellowyams posted:Is anybody going to do anything? They have a very high probability of succeeding if no one else tries to interfere. And if it's that well-known then why don't I see any discussion on it? Consider also that you are politically active and are more informed than the average person, but it's the average person who needs to know about this. People who vote for far-right parties don't mind papa bear half-naked on a horse saving them from the brown&gay hordes. The rest is apathetic just like everywhere else.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:43 |
|
HorseLord posted:You did not "America to Trump" because of some evil KGB plot. Trump won because he's extremely popular with the people he markets himself to and Hillary Clinton is the leftovers from the '08 primaries. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/22/politics/election-2016-russian-hacking-intelligence-democrats/ http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/russians-hacked-two-u-s-voter-databases-say-officials-n639551 http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/election-over-russia-still-hacking-n683651 http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-us-russia-cyber-20161031-story.html http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/russian-hackers-influence-election-228543 http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a50598/russian-talked-to-trump-campaign/ There were many small factors leading to Trump victory, pretending it was just one thing is mistaken. Many Trump supporters I saw online leading up to the election were vocally pro-Putin and were engaging in conversation with white millenials susceptible to their ideology. I didn't think it was a big deal back then because I figured there wasn't enough of them to actually influence enough people but here we are and Trump only won by a slim margin compared to Hillary's overall vote count. Even if it's blown out of proportion I think the world is at huge risk right now and we can't afford to overlook even the smallest things that might tip the scale.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2016 23:54 |
|
Hillary's loss was a death by a thousand cuts and there's a lot of small things that caused it when added together. Her loss was so narrow that even one or two of those reasons didn't happen or the Dems ran a marginally better candidate Trump would not be president.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:06 |
|
yellowyams posted:There were many small factors leading to Trump victory, pretending it was just one thing is mistaken. Many Trump supporters I saw online leading up to the election were vocally pro-Putin and were engaging in conversation with white millenials susceptible to their ideology. I didn't think it was a big deal back then because I figured there wasn't enough of them to actually influence enough people but here we are and Trump only won by a slim margin compared to Hillary's overall vote count. Even if it's blown out of proportion I think the world is at huge risk right now and we can't afford to overlook even the smallest things that might tip the scale. If there were many small factors then running screaming through the thread that the KGB is coming makes you look ridiculous. Can you even explain how this nefarious KGB plot supposedly worked? Like, step by step, what did they do? What makes this new, scary, but totally vague and unexplained interference different from the normal kind every country has done to every other country since elections were invented?
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:11 |
|
Agnosticnixie posted:Antifa are mostly cool and good and most of the crying about them being bad comes from moderate who think fascistlivesmatter and would probably think premature anti-fascism is unironically a thing. Okay but there's definitely a kind of moral hazard that comes with inviting weepy, wounded liberals to join up with antifa groups that routinely get their teeth kicked in while the police look the other way.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:11 |
|
Violence is never ok, and i think people that want to do violence or otherwise practice those types of owns on their political opponents should try being happier in life and finding fun and constructive things to do instead
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:32 |
|
b0ner of doom posted:Violence is never ok, and i think people that want to do violence or otherwise practice those types of owns on their political opponents should try being happier in life and finding fun and constructive things to do instead So the next time I'm attacked for being a gay communist I should be cool with it and let myself be murdered? Or I could break with liberalism, and be completely happy in the knowledge that the suppression of certain political beliefs (for example, that blacks and homos should die) is necessary before they become political actions (blacks and homos being killed). You know, I think I'll take the latter. Some dudes conspiring to genocide us is not the same as them having a difference of opinion with us.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:37 |
|
No, if you think violence against people purely on political opinion is bad you are a weak bitch baby liberal, unlike me, the totally cool and extreme rugged masculine communist, who is just too hardore for you to handle. Shitposting aside, I've done some organizing in rural/exurban counties, and I'll write up a few things that have/ haven't worked worked for me later when I get home.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:41 |
|
b0ner of doom posted:Violence is never ok, and i think people that want to do violence or otherwise practice those types of owns on their political opponents should try being happier in life and finding fun and constructive things to do instead Adorable, what are your views on international relations?
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:43 |
|
b0ner of doom posted:Violence is never ok, and i think people that want to do violence or otherwise practice those types of owns on their political opponents should try being happier in life and finding fun and constructive things to do instead On the grand scale it's really self-defense when you think of it.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:46 |
|
HorseLord posted:So the next time I'm attacked for being a gay communist I should be cool with it and let myself be murdered? Hmmm, this type of conspiratorial thinking is definitely not good for one's mood or stress levels which have clear links to physical ailments as well. I'd personally recommend taking a relaxing hike in nature.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:53 |
|
MizPiz posted:Adorable, what are your views on international relations? I'm just a happy person that wishes for other to be happy too, and value themselves instead of owning themselves via anger.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:55 |
|
Thanks for all the great info here. I'm not overly involved in politics, but am going to start now, because to me it's not just "politics"--it's the fight against indifference and the fight for real people and the environment. That said, I've been involved in environmental organizations for years in Canada and have found that the most satisfactory ones aren't just marching (which is also good) but getting dirty, quite literally. I have been volunteering with the Streamkeepers who do hands-on work on the tiniest of little creeks just to ensure salmon are not blocked from making their way from the rivers to the ocean. That means laying gravel for salmon eggs, removing invasive plants, walking the creek in hipwaders and clearing blockages that prevent salmon from swimming through, etc. Maybe this could be an allegory for politics. My question has to do with anyone's knowledge of Canadians working in solidarity with the USA. A ton of Canadians are quite affected by the US election. (We do have our own issues, and I am involved on the environmental ones here.) But I'm also a US citizen still, with permanent resident status in Canada, and don't know if there's any real organizations up here that work with the US. I just got involved with the Canadians going to the Million Women March, which a bunch of us are going to...but there has to be something beyond that. I do want to also support the organizations doing the legwork, like the Southern Poverty Law Center and ACLU.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:56 |
|
b0ner of doom posted:Hmmm, this type of conspiratorial thinking is definitely not good for one's mood or stress levels which have clear links to physical ailments as well. I'd personally recommend taking a relaxing hike in nature. There is no conspiratorial thinking in believing that a gay man is significantly more at risk than a straight man. What the gently caress is wrong with you?
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:56 |
|
You know if you can't even utter the word "communist" on an internet message board I'm not sure that "effective leftism" is the right word for whats being planned here.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:58 |
|
Bottom line with regards to antifa: fascists exert their power by making the streets unsafe for minorities through marching around like belligerent swaggering fucknuggets. They are not taking to the streets to protest, a fascist march is a show of force. If they're allowed to walk the streets unimpeded they become bolder and more willing to intimidate and assault anyone who gets in their way. It is necessary to obstruct them, confront them and even use force to prevent them from thinking they rule the streets. Think the UK in the 1970s, think Germany in the 30s, any time nazis or their descendents think they can swagger en masse down a street in a non-white neighbourhood unimpeded people get hurt, people get killed and the fascists are able to terrorise the population with impunity. Antifascist actions are about protecting and reducing harm to minority communities and about preventing the growth of the sort of toxic, violent and terroristic climate that openly marching fascists engender.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 00:59 |
|
If you're American and especially if you live in a rural area you should probably consider hiding and sheltering undocumented immigrants or muslims in your house at some point in the future. Antifa is good and violence is the only language fascists understand.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:00 |
|
Agnosticnixie posted:There is no conspiratorial thinking in believing that a gay man is significantly more at risk than a straight man. What the gently caress is wrong with you? This message board seems like a pretty safe place to me. However I can tell from your tone that you're pretty angry, which can't be good for your stress levels. You should try calling your parents; a good chat can help with that.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:01 |
|
TomViolence posted:Bottom line with regards to antifa: fascists exert their power by making the streets unsafe for minorities through marching around like belligerent swaggering fucknuggets. They are not taking to the streets to protest, a fascist march is a show of force. If they're allowed to walk the streets unimpeded they become bolder and more willing to intimidate and assault anyone who gets in their way. It is necessary to obstruct them, confront them and even use force to prevent them from thinking they rule the streets. Think the UK in the 1970s, think Germany in the 30s, any time nazis or their descendents think they can swagger en masse down a street in a non-white neighbourhood unimpeded people get hurt, people get killed and the fascists are able to terrorise the population with impunity. This seems like the kind of post that would be made in GBS, being rife with the kind of for the lulz cynicism that has no place is a civilized forum like this one
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:04 |
|
b0ner of doom posted:This seems like the kind of post that would be made in GBS, being rife with the kind of for the lulz cynicism that has no place is a civilized forum like this one
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:04 |
|
I have some free time, so I'll get started with the main thing that I took away, the rest when I get home. Ok, a couple of practical bits of stuff that worked for me. I was working for an organization that pushed environmental issues/ some tax increases in a normally conservative part of CA. Here's one of the things that worked for me Don't talk about "the environment" or "the planet", but about the impacts on people Talking about "saving the planet" (or the polar bears, or endangered tree snails) can bounce off of people who've learned to associate that with crazy hippies/democrats/etc. But if you talk about how their county has one of the highest rates of asthma in children in the country, they'll loving listen. Especially if you can give them hard facts (40% increase in lung cancer for example), and a plan of action (elect new members to the Air Quality Management District who will do something about it). Always do whatever you can to make the effects concrete and real to them, to their families. This is isn't about saving the planet, we couldn't kill the planet if we wanted to, it's about keeping it a place where we can live comfortably. Frame it as though you could give less of a poo poo about the sea turtles, it's the children you're worried about. This presumes you're in an area that's somewhat hostile territory to these kind of ideas, rather than a place like the bay area. Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Nov 16, 2016 |
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:05 |
|
Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals posted:
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:06 |
|
Desmond posted:Thanks for all the great info here. I'm not overly involved in politics, but am going to start now, because to me it's not just "politics"--it's the fight against indifference and the fight for real people and the environment. That said, I've been involved in environmental organizations for years in Canada and have found that the most satisfactory ones aren't just marching (which is also good) but getting dirty, quite literally. I have been volunteering with the Streamkeepers who do hands-on work on the tiniest of little creeks just to ensure salmon are not blocked from making their way from the rivers to the ocean. That means laying gravel for salmon eggs, removing invasive plants, walking the creek in hipwaders and clearing blockages that prevent salmon from swimming through, etc. Maybe this could be an allegory for politics. If you're in Canada there's very little you actually can do for America specific-organisations like Southern Poverty Law Center and the ACLU besides sending them a donation. Beyond that you're going to have to look for groups that are actually active in Canada. If you're not planning on going back to the US any time soon then joining up with one of the Canadian political parties is also a solid plan. The NDP are probably the one who's agenda is most agreeable to posters here in this thread but they have very little power right now as I understand it and if you feel your time would be better served by trying to push the Liberals leftwards then that's also an option open to you.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:17 |
|
b0ner of doom posted:I'm just a happy person that wishes for other to be happy too, and value themselves instead of owning themselves via anger. I'm not the one who owned themselves.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:45 |
|
Toph Bei Fong posted:Rules for Radicals I KNEW IT!
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 01:58 |
|
themrguy posted:I have some free time, so I'll get started with the main thing that I took away, the rest when I get home. A good thing to keep in mind is that the planet has survived loving giant meteors slamming into it, and it still managed to support life. Life changed, but it was still there. It's a tough old binnie and as you said, it's really really really hard to kill and anything short of Jenova won't put a dent in it. The planet will survive. We, humanity, will not.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 02:19 |
|
Thanks for this thread and especially for some great posts about getting involved. There is a real opportunity here to wrest control of the Democratic party away from those who have held the reigns since Bill Clinton, and it is really loving energizing.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 02:20 |
|
themrguy posted:I have some free time, so I'll get started with the main thing that I took away, the rest when I get home. Totally agree. I mean, I'm completely interested in endangered frogs and such, but not everyone is. Problem is that it's sometimes tough to provide hard facts about cancer rates and cause/effects; sometimes all you can give is correlations/associations. For many this is not enough, especially when they are fed industry reports saying otherwise. Captain Fargle posted:If you're in Canada there's very little you actually can do for America specific-organisations like Southern Poverty Law Center and the ACLU besides sending them a donation. Beyond that you're going to have to look for groups that are actually active in Canada. If you're not planning on going back to the US any time soon then joining up with one of the Canadian political parties is also a solid plan. The NDP are probably the one who's agenda is most agreeable to posters here in this thread but they have very little power right now as I understand it and if you feel your time would be better served by trying to push the Liberals leftwards then that's also an option open to you. Thanks. I'll research it a bit more. In Vancouver, it seems like almost everyone is from somewhere else, so there are quite a few US citizens living here. And a lot of them are pretty upset right now. I have another question. The Facebook group of Canadians traveling to DC for the Million Woman March is getting a little freaked out by a post that cautioned about going to the US to protest. The march does have a permit, however, and is a peaceful rally. If it gets out of hand, I think it would be because of people crashing it. Is anyone here familiar with laws there for other people coming for the purpose of a rally? Edit: it's being organized by several women's orgs and has permits, etc. Jenny of Oldstones fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Nov 16, 2016 |
# ? Nov 16, 2016 02:31 |
|
Dr. Arbitrary posted:I KNEW IT! Curses, my plot has been exposed! I'll get you pesky kids next time! The proletariat is the undertaker of capitalism! We will bury you! Мы вас похороним! Мы вас похороним!
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 07:54 |
|
Anyone familiar with SURJ? I found them while looking for protests in my area. Apparently it's a group for the purpose of training white people to resist white supremacy and be an ally in black led movements. It seems like it could be either really good, or a really misguided way for white people to feel good about themselves while never ever stepping out of their comfort zones - I'm not sure which. Anyway, I'm linking it here because they're having a conference call tomorrow to talk about leveraging post-election rage towards organizing and resistance. I'll probably dial in and see what it's all about.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 08:31 |
|
What can a Dutch goon do to help stop Wilders in 2017? Labour is currently in a coalition with the VVD and is giving no signs of ever planning to listening to their voters again and our other left leaning parties all had knee mounted gatling guns surgically installed to be able to shoot themselves in the foot faster(CONSERVATIVE DEATH PANELS!!! BAN EUTHANASIA!!!)
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 11:07 |
|
|
# ? Jun 6, 2024 07:14 |
|
Asehujiko posted:What can a Dutch goon do to help stop Wilders in 2017? Labour is currently in a coalition with the VVD and is giving no signs of ever planning to listening to their voters again and our other left leaning parties all had knee mounted gatling guns surgically installed to be able to shoot themselves in the foot faster(CONSERVATIVE DEATH PANELS!!! BAN EUTHANASIA!!!) As Wilders himself says, we must learn the lesson of Pim Fortuyn (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
# ? Nov 16, 2016 11:28 |