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HEY GAL, some graph called your century a bitch:
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Nov 16, 2016 14:13
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aphid_licker posted:It's so loving funny that the spotting blimp people got parachutes before the airplane people did. Wouldn't want to find yourself in a burning aircraft with no way out This was because of various strands of thinking. The practical ones were that it was much easier to bail out of a stationary balloon basket than from a whirling, flaming fighter aircraft (which, in a Catch 22, were not designed with any thought of bailing out, with the cockpit under a wing, surrounded by interplane struts or right in front of a propeller), and that even the most crusty and chivalrous higher-ups realised that, while you could encourage a fighter pilot to never run from a fight and to keep flying and fighting to the last, you couldn't do the same to an unarmed man stood in a wicker basket hung from a big bag of hydrogen tethered to the ground - if some Fokker with tracer ammo attacked you then 'retreat via parachute' was the only sensible and rational way out. And then there's all the stuff about 'fighting spirit' and 'not encouraging cowardice', which probably had an element of class values in it - the aircraft pilots were officers while the chaps in the balloons tended to be NCOs or (even!) private soldiers. The air war in WW1 was an odd reversal of the popular image because the officers went into action to die horribly in their thousands and the other ranks stayed in relative safety miles behind the lines. So there may, implicitly or not, an expectation that the pilots had to die with honour in a burning mess which couldn't be expected of the balloon crews.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:21
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tfw you use raw numbers instead of per capita deaths
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Nov 16, 2016 14:21
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Quite a few pilots in the 1st World War were former cavalry men as well including the Red Baron and some brought their baggage with them so to speak. But to be fair, that line of thinking rapidly declined and was more or less dead by 1917. Which is why the funeral of the Red Baron seems so strange.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:53
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Very very curious how they estimated the 'number of wars' in non-European parts of the world during the 16th and 17th century.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:53
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Fangz posted:Very very curious how they estimated the 'number of wars' in non-European parts of the world during the 16th and 17th century.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:56
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HEY GAL posted:tfw you use raw numbers instead of per capita deaths per capita WWII still is in like the top 3, the sheer amount of death was unreal
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Nov 16, 2016 15:11
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BalloonFish posted:And then there's all the stuff about 'fighting spirit' and 'not encouraging cowardice', which probably had an element of class values in it - the aircraft pilots were officers while the chaps in the balloons tended to be NCOs or (even!) private soldiers Most French and German pilots were NCOs, at least at the start of their flying careers; only in the RFC did all pilots hold officer rank.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:14
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HEY GAL posted:tfw you use raw numbers instead of per capita deaths also it only counts a war if it had 1,000 deaths per annum which is hardly fair. If 900 families lost a member, it's a loving war.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:14
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WoodrowSkillson posted:per capita WWII still is in like the top 3, the sheer amount of death was unreal Imagine how creepy it was for the people resettling into Nanjing after the 2nd World War.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:19
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SeanBeansShako posted:Imagine how creepy it was for the people resettling into Nanjing after the 2nd World War. not as creepy as it was for the people leaving it, I'd wager 
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Nov 16, 2016 15:24
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Tias posted:not as creepy as it was for the people leaving it, I'd wager Christ, imagine living the rest of your life after seeing all of that. Humanity is horrible.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:30
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Tias posted:not as creepy as it was for the people leaving it, I'd wager There are houses that share a fence with Auschwitz that were built in like 1945. People immediately moved to reclaim the land and thumb their nose at it. i imagine there was a similar sentiment in China.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:31
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WoodrowSkillson posted:There are houses that share a fence with Auschwitz that were built in like 1945. People immediately moved to reclaim the land and thumb their nose at it. i imagine there was a similar sentiment in China. That seems like the best way to get haunted.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:33
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MikeCrotch posted:HEY GAL, some graph called your century a bitch: How is that bar that short, the 30yw alone should beat it.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:35
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chitoryu12 posted:That seems like the best way to get haunted. Lol if your house doesn't blare Hava Nagila out of a kitchen full of suddenly-opened cupboards in the middle of the night every once in a while. Hell, I dropped a wine glass while filling the dishwasher once and heard "mazel tov" from the empty basement.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:39
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xthetenth posted:How is that bar that short, the 30yw alone should beat it. its in millions, there simply were not that many people to kill in europe in the 1600s
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Nov 16, 2016 15:41
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BalloonFish posted:The air war in WW1 was an odd reversal of the popular image because the officers went into action to die horribly in their thousands and the other ranks stayed in relative safety miles behind the lines. Um, what? The RFC took a bit over 9,000 KIA/MIA across the entire war. That's a rounding error in the enlisted deaths for any major ground operation.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:39
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I'm sure 95% of the thread has seen this, but its too topical not to repost for those who are unaware of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU Edited for a higher quality video WoodrowSkillson fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 16:50
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Cyrano4747 posted:Um, what? How does that contradict what he said  People have made the same comparisons about many wars, particularly the Gulf War where the air war was such a major part of it relative to the ground war.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:51
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Life expectancy for WWI fighter pilots was pretty shockingly short....you see everything from a couple of weeks, to 10-11 days, to 40-60 hours flying...it was really short, in any case. There were a lot of non-combat things that could kill you, your chances of being WIA vs KIA were a whole lot worse, and the air combat itself was incredibly lethal compared to what we'd see in future conflicts. These things are hard to prove of course but I think there's a pretty strong argument that it was the most dangerous job of the entire war. That being said the scale of the combat was miniscule compared to the ground war so the raw numbers are tiny....in 1917 the RFC was smaller than the average infantry division by personnel and only had about 400 aircraft total on the whole of the western front.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:52
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Oh yeah obviously the air war in pretty much every war was tiny in comparison to the Poor Bloody Infantry et al, i'm not going "think of the poor officers  "It's still an interesting reversal of the norm up till that point
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Nov 16, 2016 16:58
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SeanBeansShako posted:Imagine how creepy it was for the people resettling into Nanjing after the 2nd World War. Nanjing had just been rebuilt from nothing only 75 years prior.
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Nov 16, 2016 17:11
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PittTheElder posted:So it's a gun that fires the instant you chamber a round? Why on earth would you want that? The Finns had a shitload of captured DP-27s and he carried one from 1941 to 1945. The Russians called the gun a "record player" because, well, just look at it. The Finnish called it "Emma" after a popular song. Most of the guns were pretty worn out by the end of the war, but they still worked fine to the point when you let go of the trigger. "Emma" didn't want to stop singing. The way you stopped Emma from singing was to grab the record ie. stop the clip from revolving. I have no idea if this story is real. I was a kid when i heard it, and my googlefu can't find evidence of this sort of thing actually happening. He did have all sorts of stories to terrify the gently caress out of a 12 year old though.
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Nov 16, 2016 17:13
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WoodrowSkillson posted:its in millions, there simply were not that many people to kill in europe in the 1600s That looks to be well short of 8 million and is the whole century.
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Nov 16, 2016 17:13
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Don't forget stuff like the Spanish conquests in the Americas in this period, in which many millions died, but which I'm pretty sure this chart doesn't count as war deaths. Then the Taiping Rebellion killed 30 million, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't the *only* war that happened in the 1800s....
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Nov 16, 2016 17:24
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there is no way there were only ~50 wars in europe during the entire 16th century, those people had a goddamn war a year
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Nov 16, 2016 17:28
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TV dog Wishbone of PBS posted:Oh hey this reminds me of a half remembered milhist story i remember my grand uncle telling. The magazine on a DP doesn't revolve, it works like any other disk magazine. aphid_licker posted:Russians are p chill about stealing words and pretty pragmatic about translating them into cyrillic and it made perfect sense to me that they'd steal cannibal. And I was right about that, because indeed it's каннибал (kannibal). I just got mixed up about what they tend(ed)* to replace with "g", which is the h and not the k, because my Russian is extremely basic and pretty rusty. Yup, людоед = люди (people) + есть (to eat). Modern loanwords might use Kh instead of G, but for existing ones it's still very much G: Gitler, Gollandia, Goplit, etc.
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Nov 16, 2016 17:28
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TV dog Wishbone of PBS posted:The way you stopped Emma from singing was to grab the record ie. stop the clip from revolving. I don't know about the DP-27, but it's plausible that they could have runaways and that disengaging the magazine would stop it. I've heard stories of M240 runaways stopped by pulling off the bag that holds the ammo belt (known as 'ripping off the nutsack') but that's anecdotal too so who knows. ^^^^^^ yeah, just grabbing the magazine wouldn't do anything, you'd have to wrench it to make it misfeed or something.
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Nov 16, 2016 17:37
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The Imjin War and Sengoku period alone could probably account for what they have in that 16th century graph, plus the 16th century was the height of the Mughal conquests right? And then the Qing conquest of China was also contemporaneous with the 30yw and hardly a bloodless affair either.
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Nov 16, 2016 17:40
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Koramei posted:The Imjin War and Sengoku period alone could probably account for what they have in that 16th century graph, plus the 16th century was the height of the Mughal conquests right? And then the Qing conquest of China was also contemporaneous with the 30yw and hardly a bloodless affair either. In summary, a shameful graph which is both wildly inaccurate and would need ten paragraphs of definitions to clarify its vague criteria even if it were more accurate. Perfect for sharing to facebook!
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Nov 16, 2016 17:45
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Cyrano4747 posted:Um, what? Slightly Sticky April.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:34
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WTF - WWII Dutch shipwrecks disappearing from the Java Sea. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37997640 Diver Vidar Skoglie says that the wrecks were towed to Surabaya and sold as scraps (site in Dutch).
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Nov 16, 2016 18:47
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 How do you covertly salvage something that large from that deep?
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Nov 16, 2016 18:54
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Welp, there goes all the listed war graves in the pacific.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:00
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So, uh how pissed are the European countries about this. I can't say that this would go down well at all in the US.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:46
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Telsa Cola posted:So, uh how pissed are the European countries about this. I can't say that this would go down well at all in the US. This has been happening for a century to World War One shipwrecks in the North Sea and nobody seems to have given a drat.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:53
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Well What Now posted:This has been happening for a century to World War One shipwrecks in the North Sea and nobody seems to have given a drat. I would have to agree since I apparently did not know that. Do you have any links or articles?
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Nov 16, 2016 19:55
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How has modern warfare changed how countries deal with POWs? I know the US has taken to just tossing some of them into a hole in Cuba and forgetting about them, but are there still traditional POW camps? Do countries dealing with insurgencies have some sort of rehabilitation system?
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Nov 16, 2016 19:56
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Telsa Cola posted:I would have to agree since I apparently did not know that. Do you have any links or articles? Here's the first one I could find. The problem is that they're in international waters so there's not really a way to stop it unless you constantly patrol the wreck sites, and shipwrecks are full of high-quality metals that are a salvager's bread and butter.
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Nov 16, 2016 20:01
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