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Invading and getting invaded are the best parts of the DS series, gently caress the haters
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Nov 15, 2016 23:01
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Darkmoon ring is locked behind a healthy invasion meta or whatever to call it. But no one invades and no one uses blue guys to help with invasions they just summon their buddies. Invasions aren't really properly incentived and opening yourself up to invasions is even less so. If you want the darkmoon ring or god help you the wolf knight great shield enjoy farming assholes for 30 hours. I agree that farming Proofs (or any covenant item) is super irritating. We can only speculate about the actual reasons why getting pulled in as a Blue is so inconsistent though since there's no way for us to really see the data. Initially it looked like there were some straight up bugs with it but I think the real issue nowadays is having to equip Way of Blue. If it was equipped by default or if more covenants counted I suspect that would help a lot. I think DS3 took some steps backwards in terms of covenants from DS2 (along with a couple steps forwards, going back to having a red eye orb was a good move) and the biggest one is the lack of a blue eye orb. The watchdogs and faithful are totally fine and seem to work well (now that they've increased the ranges), I certainly get pulled into those quite quickly on PS4 and I get almost insta-invaded if I'm embered in there. It's really the darkmoons that suffer and I think that's a pity, although with how often I get invaded even at high soul levels I doubt it's because of a poor invasion meta. No way to know for sure though. Kibbles n Shits posted:Straight up "fair" PvP in Dark Souls is utter garbage, IMO, between the incessant roll spam, laggy estocs, face-chugging, etc. I'd rather be invaded by someone who knows how to have fun and die than suffer through another stale duel of meta build 1 vs meta build 2. I'd also rather invade and put myself into a 1v3 to see how much damage I could do, but I don't really invade much these days anyways. I think lag is really the killer. The Arena is totally fine due to having unembered health and reasonable restrictions on healing but lag can swing the experience so, so dramatically. Meta builds are always going to dominate though and there's nothing to be done about that. Capcom hasn't been able to make a perfectly balanced fighting game in literally decades of trying and they have infinitely fewer moving parts than a Souls game. Still there's plenty of ways to have unorthodox success, I've seen (and used effectively myself) some really dominating spell caster builds now that the Arena is out. To the point that I suspect in a proper competitive environment casters would take over, or at the very least hybrid builds (which most of the successful caster builds are anyways). Sapozhnik posted:Invading and getting invaded are the best parts of the DS series, gently caress the haters I agree and I like invasions a lot I just think coddling invaders is a terrible and dumb idea. They have huge innate advantages (that a relatively rare and limited use item does not negate) on top of being the proactive party and on top of that they have nothing to lose whereas the host potentially has a lot at stake. Invaders should deal with the restrictions and disadvantages that they are given instead of cry about it. AttackBacon fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 23:12
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Maybe its different on pc. I rarely run into loyal spirits, and my way of blue triggers instantly. Too bad bringing in blue guys doesn't get me anything.
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Nov 15, 2016 23:23
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AttackBacon posted:I agree and I like invasions a lot I just think coddling invaders is a terrible and dumb idea. They have huge innate advantages (that a relatively rare and limited use item does not negate) on top of being the proactive party and on top of that they have nothing to lose whereas the host potentially has a lot at stake. Invaders should deal with the restrictions and disadvantages that they are given instead of cry about it. Im not really aware of any advantages invaders have besides the enemies, which arent that much of an advantage since most hosts dont bother fighting enemies while invaders are around. Pretty sure the intention is that invaders dont have an advantage. Also seed of the giant isnt rare, i farm them by the boatloads. Also also what does the host have to lose? Do hosts usually ember after dying while their soul sign is in the world or something?
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Nov 15, 2016 23:30
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I dunno if it's naivete or something, but nearly every blue I've faced is so bad as to be a liability to their host. They die lightning quick and give me those sweet 2 flasks, which is usually a lot more than they took off from me.
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Nov 15, 2016 23:56
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Invaders have no advantage on paper in DS3. You have reduced health and estus. Seeds negate the enemy advantage and are easy to get. Unless you invade someone and actually get placed close to them while they are fighting enemies, you can't catch them off-guard. The vast majority of the time you invade someone and have to fight them in an area clear of enemies. Which is fine, but the game prioritizing phantom summoners over everyone else is awful. On release basically every invasion put you in a world where some guy has 2+ phantoms summoned camping the bonfire. Even when you manage to eek out a win against that nonsense its not very fun for it to be literally every invasion. Now that less people are cooping its a lot more tolerable now. I really don't care if I have the advantage in an invasion or not. What I care about is if its fun, and invading people with 2 phantoms summoned over and over again was not fun. It was really annoying. Its also annoying that I'll never be invaded when playing solo unless I rub the dried fingers on my face. Kite Pride Worldwide posted:I dunno if it's naivete or something, but nearly every blue I've faced is so bad as to be a liability to their host. They die lightning quick and give me those sweet 2 flasks, which is usually a lot more than they took off from me. Typical Blue Boy Contribution  (The host is dead) Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 00:10
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Cops are generally pretty bad, and I've rarely found the host having one to really make a huge difference. White Phantoms and Sunbros however, generally have been cooperating with the host for a bit longer and usually coordinate a lot better. I need to make a new mid-level invader with a +4 and level 40 or so to keep my options open. I'm not sure what, though, since I've already played through the game with a pure melee and soon with a melee-ish cleric, so I'd probably go for an int-dex build or a pyro next, and I doubt either of those are very effective at that level.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:28
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I think level 80 is a better target if you want to use magic a lot. At level 40 you're either gonna have so little magic you barely qualify as a mage or be spread super thin.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:31
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you can have 50 int by lvl 40 so if you want to do a one shot build its probably ideal.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:35
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Internet Kraken posted:Invaders have no advantage on paper in DS3. You have reduced health and estus. Seeds negate the enemy advantage and are easy to get. Unless you invade someone and actually get placed close to them while they are fighting enemies, you can't catch them off-guard. The vast majority of the time you invade someone and have to fight them in an area clear of enemies. Which is fine, but the game prioritizing phantom summoners over everyone else is awful. On release basically every invasion put you in a world where some guy has 2+ phantoms summoned camping the bonfire. Even when you manage to eek out a win against that nonsense its not very fun for it to be literally every invasion. Now that less people are cooping its a lot more tolerable now. Yeah. I think they probably just needed to weight the invasion search a bit less towards players with summoned phantoms. It's fun to drop in on a gank squad now and then, even if they destroy you in the end it can still be enjoyable to try and split them up, use the environment against them, bait them into enemies or whatever. But if it happens even half the time, it gets old fast. At launch it happened pretty much all the time. Variety of enemy types is what makes invasions so entertaining, you get all sorts of builds and all sorts of players in all sorts of situations and you have to approach them all differently. Three guys hanging out at the bonfire sucking each other's dicks ten times in a row always goes the same way and it isn't especially entertaining, which is why practically all the invading at launch gravitated to Irithyll/AL and Crucifixion Woods -- just because the autosummon means you can't sit there at the start of the area with Larry and Moe defeating all challengers easily.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:36
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The one complaint I'll agree wholeheartedly with is the heavy weighting towards invading people with summoned phantoms. That's just kind of dumb.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:52
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KonvexKonkav posted:There's something strange I noticed when looking at the global steam achievements for this game: Apparently, 83.5% of all players defeated Iudex Gundyr but 84% got the "embered for the first time" achievement. How does that work? As far as I know, you ember for the first time when you kill Gundyr and I don't remember finding any embers before him. maybe .5% of players traded killing blows with him and then never played again e; nevermind I'm dyslexic
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Nov 16, 2016 02:40
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I for one feel zero sympathy when I hear about the invincible t-pose floating across the gap at the Catacombs later getting his rear end handed to him by a sunbro party.KonvexKonkav posted:There's something strange I noticed when looking at the global steam achievements for this game: Apparently, 83.5% of all players defeated Iudex Gundyr but 84% got the "embered for the first time" achievement. How does that work? As far as I know, you ember for the first time when you kill Gundyr and I don't remember finding any embers before him. Asehujiko fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 02:42
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Sard posted:My favorite thing in any fight, whether it's an invasion or a summoned duel, is when they start buffing their gear carefree expecting me to let them finish before I attack. gently caress no, you invested stats in the ability to power up your damage so I'm going to take that as an invitation to use the stats invested in my fist to clobber you. You dick. Also good luck hitting me with your stupid duel charms. I purposefully go after you kinds of people or don't buff when your two feet from my spawn. I buff on almost all my characters except my sorcerer.
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Nov 16, 2016 02:47
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Kibbles n Shits posted:I love being invaded and I miss fingering and having epic clusterfucks in undead settlement with whites, golds, blues, purples, reds, and the chaos of it all. I love getting invaded solo and waiting for them to smugly wave at me from behind a giant crab only for me to pop a seed and watch them get smashed. Invasions are part of the Dark Souls experience. nostalgic 4 fingering behind the barn...
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Nov 16, 2016 03:22
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When I get invaded I usually just try to fight the invader, but if the invader is just so bad that I don't need to drink estus to survive and he runs to enemies I'll pop a seed. At this point in DS3 I don't mind to be killed in between bonfires but dragging the invasion is just boring. Same goes when I invade, I just try to do a single assault to kill or die and not run around like an idiot for twenty minutes or more.
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Nov 16, 2016 10:44
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Maybe its different on pc. I rarely run into loyal spirits, and my way of blue triggers instantly. Too bad bringing in blue guys doesn't get me anything. A second chance at staying alive. Edit: Also I can't believe it's the 4th game in the series and there are still people that cry about invaders barging in on their precious game. Stokes fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 14:44
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I started a spell-oriented character for the first time in DkS3 but literally the only spell I've been casting is great magic weapon to buff my +7 executioner's sword, which is fun and good and hits like a truck. I think I'm doing it wrong.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:59
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theres nothing wrong with going low int for some spells like shield buff. problem is that its not really a spell caster if that was your intention.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:19
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Stokes posted:A second chance at staying alive. I just think more things should work like the mound makers and offer the reward to people who allow you to participate to encourage to do stuff like remembering/bothering to equip way of blue.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:43
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Stokes posted:A second chance at staying alive. I think there's a ground to take that lies between "wahh invasions aren't fair" and "wahhhhhh invasions are too hard" and I think the games (including this one) have been pretty good about hitting that, although I would agree that DS3 is tougher on invaders than DS1 was.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:05
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skasion posted:Yeah. I think they probably just needed to weight the invasion search a bit less towards players with summoned phantoms. It's fun to drop in on a gank squad now and then, even if they destroy you in the end it can still be enjoyable to try and split them up, use the environment against them, bait them into enemies or whatever. But if it happens even half the time, it gets old fast. At launch it happened pretty much all the time. Variety of enemy types is what makes invasions so entertaining, you get all sorts of builds and all sorts of players in all sorts of situations and you have to approach them all differently. Three guys hanging out at the bonfire sucking each other's dicks ten times in a row always goes the same way and it isn't especially entertaining, which is why practically all the invading at launch gravitated to Irithyll/AL and Crucifixion Woods -- just because the autosummon means you can't sit there at the start of the area with Larry and Moe defeating all challengers easily. I've done thousands of Invasions in DS2, I'd say 90% of them were against a solo player. On the flip side almost ALL of my DS3 invasions have been against someone with 1 or more summons, its just not fun getting stun locked by 2 people over and over again. I dont enjoy rolling away from 3 people for ten minutes until I eventually run out of estus and get killed. Kinda sucks, because invasions are my fav part of the souls games.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:08
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g0t_hats posted:I've done thousands of Invasions in DS2, I'd say 90% of them were against a solo player. On the flip side almost ALL of my DS3 invasions have been against someone with 1 or more summons, its just not fun getting stun locked by 2 people over and over again. I dont enjoy rolling away from 3 people for ten minutes until I eventually run out of estus and get killed. Kinda sucks, because invasions are my fav part of the souls games. This is one good thing about DS2 making you always invadeable, the pool of potential invadees is way higher at any given time and includes people who are in no position to get help from a phantom. Of course the trade off is that any individual player hardly ever gets invaded outside the bell towers because the ratio of invadees to invaders is enormous.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:25
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g0t_hats posted:I've done thousands of Invasions in DS2, I'd say 90% of them were against a solo player. On the flip side almost ALL of my DS3 invasions have been against someone with 1 or more summons, its just not fun getting stun locked by 2 people over and over again. I dont enjoy rolling away from 3 people for ten minutes until I eventually run out of estus and get killed. Kinda sucks, because invasions are my fav part of the souls games. you can beat 3 player gank squads occasionally, but the way the game works overwhelmingly favors the gank squad if they decide to bum-rush you and just spam their R1 attack. it's fortunate that most 3 player groups all tend to act like they're each involved in individual combat with you, because having 2 dance around while the third engages you is pretty much your only chance at winning.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:29
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Has anyone gone through the whole game with a 4-player co-op squad? That's something me and some friends have been kicking around as an idea -- just progress through the game, but keep the wrinkled finger active at all times. I would imagine that you'd pretty much be getting invaded non-stop, which could make for some good times clowning on invaders and area covenants.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:33
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Wouldn't you have to beat every area 4 times unless your 3 partners are already at the end of the game? Otherwise how would they progress with the host?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:47
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Electromax posted:Wouldn't you have to beat every area 4 times unless your 3 partners are already at the end of the game? Otherwise how would they progress with the host? Yup. Much like Monster Hunter urgent quests, you'd need to kill every boss once for each player if they haven't killed it yet.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:53
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https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/the-long-desperate-search-to-understand-poise-in-dark-souls-3 This sure is a real long, rambling article to say the dumb way DS3 poise works.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:25
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I've beaten 3-4 players gank squads before. But that was just because they were bad. And the host gets careless. There's virtually no chance to beat an actual competent gank squad though. Especially since it is incredibly difficult to stop the host from summoning them again while he rolls around with the Carthus Bloodring.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:33
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Electromax posted:Wouldn't you have to beat every area 4 times unless your 3 partners are already at the end of the game? Otherwise how would they progress with the host? I play with 2 other people usually and yeah, we go through every area 3 times. You get to know the game really well though
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Nov 16, 2016 22:39
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Bananasaurus Rex posted:I've beaten 3-4 players gank squads before. But that was just because they were bad. And the host gets careless. In my recent playthrough I've found even most big brawls at irithyll prefer either 1v1 or 4-way free for all rather than ganking though
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Nov 16, 2016 22:42
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Nohman posted:https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/the-long-desperate-search-to-understand-poise-in-dark-souls-3 I'm just confused why people think Poise has recently been added with the DLC patch. The same dude he points to as figuring out the new poise values actually figured it out at the beginning of August. Well, maybe it's the fact that every variable is hidden ...
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Nov 16, 2016 23:01
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If you really want to set out to invade people while minimizing the threat of gank squads, then it's important to consider location, location, location. Profaned Capital is an ideal place because of how vertically stacked it is. Back when greatshields were popular as the new OP fad thing, I ran into a trio of Havels with them; didn't matter when I was able to drop several meters onto the host with a BKGA before they knew I was there. I posted it earlier but repeating it again, the catacombs are also good because you can trick them into cutting the bridge and triggering the skeletons while preventing the host from making it to safety by just waiting at the start of said bridge and dashing to Anri. It's easier to just go purple and not give a gently caress, though. Go wild. Sard fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 23:02
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Electromax posted:Wouldn't you have to beat every area 4 times unless your 3 partners are already at the end of the game? Otherwise how would they progress with the host? Ideally one or two of us will have already beaten the game (and we have) so we'd just use the password system to get into the other 1-2 players' worlds and gently caress around. Like others have said tho, it's not uncommon to jolly co-op through the same areas multiple times if you're going through the whole game with friends; I did it twice in the previous games. It makes sense if you're a crazy person who already plays these games too much, or if your friends are only going to do one playthrough so co-oping lets them get a thorough look at each area. Going through the game with the bony finger active and being invaded the entire time would be special in it's own way, though.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:41
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Nohman posted:https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/the-long-desperate-search-to-understand-poise-in-dark-souls-3 Article is pretentious poo poo quote:That's how poise worked in Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, and Dark Souls 2. Given Dark Souls 3 was pitched as concluding FromSoftware's "Dark" trilogy, it'd make sense for it to work the same. Except poise didn't loving exist in Demon's Souls. Instead, you're unable to be staggered during some attack animations of heavy weapons, irrespective of the armor you are wearing.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKqLNqwOQyU heysel's pick viable now???
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Nov 17, 2016 00:08
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Sperglord Firecock posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKqLNqwOQyU Pfft more like Tailbone Spear! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKSehgD0-rw Beware he talks about DS PvP tournaments, this may trigger some people. It's a very good channel to watch if you want to understand how to make caster builds work in duels however. Some of his builds are downright dirty.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:43
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Sperglord Firecock posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKqLNqwOQyU This is sick
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Nov 17, 2016 02:27
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holy poo poo absolutely nobody in PvP knows how to deal with great club. I don't even understand why, I'm just pressing r1 to hit them with a literal big stick while they flail around and panic roll and die
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Nov 17, 2016 02:45
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Bad memories of Dark Souls 1 where it was the best weapon in the entire game. It triggers the fight or flight response.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:47
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