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skasion posted:They replaced it with the ability to fabricate claims in colonial regions, which accomplishes pretty much the same thing regardless of how technologically advanced the natives are. yeah except it adds an extra layer of annoying poo poo.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:39
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It's....not hard. It's two button clicks
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Nov 16, 2016 22:40
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CharlestheHammer posted:It's....not hard. It's two button clicks free up a diplomat, watch for the envoy cooldown to time out, send him over, watch for the spy network to become large enough, fabricate the claim, repeat several times if necessary, oh you got distracted and he got kicked out of the country and you need to send him over again, ok you're done so now take the envoy back home again & watch for the new cooldown to time out so you can reassign him... fabricating claims is really, sincerely, fiddly
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Nov 16, 2016 22:49
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Envoy time is like half a year+ too when you're dealing with colonial distances. Also you get one of the worst CBs out of it instead of one of the best.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:52
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Oh my god
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Nov 16, 2016 22:53
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It seriously slows down colonial expansion in Asia, especially for the AI who were already not brilliant at it.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:55
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genericnick posted:Thinking about going for Quin. I've never even played a horde. Any hints? I'm doing a Qing game right now actually, it's a lot of fun and can become a total stomp if the start goes well. So here comes a huge post. Horde basics: instead of legitimacy you have unity. Unity is constantly decreasing at a pretty aggressive speed. You gain unity by razing provinces. Your non core provinces will have a button on them to raze them, you get power points and money at the cost of development. Because of this it's a good way to "slim down" provinces so you can core them for cheap. It also means you can go a bit over 100% overextension with no ill effects because the razing will bump you back down below 100 again. There's a cool down on it which I think is fifteen years. The amount of money and power you get for razing decreases over time, so horde games are generally a rush to get yourself in a good enough position to become a more stable government type. Hordes also get constant CBs on all neighbors and a bonus to shock combat in flat terrain. That bit is important because it means your cavalry can punch well above their weight early on provided you pick your battles. Conversely you get a penalty in rough terrain, which is bad in this case because a lot of Manchuria is mountainous. Qing specifics: I started Jianzhou but there's not much difference between the three Manchu tribes, you'll be eating the others soon enough anyway. Sell your navy right away (if you have one), it's useless waste of money you could be spending on horses. Make sure you have an ally for the first war. All the Manchu tribes will always rival each other but Oirat or even Korchin can be huge pain if they side with one of your enemies. If you can't find a winning strategy to take on the other tribes, wait for them to declare war on each other and then pick on the side that loses the first battle. Annex as much as you can until they are gone. Take out Buryatia as soon as you can since they have gold mine. When in doubt expand. You don't get anything for resting on your laurels as a horde. If you aren't razing and coring you should be at war. Forming Manchu is easy enough, forming Qing is the hard part and you will probably need to expand both into Mongolia and Korea to have a shot at it. Mongolia is relatively easy to outmuscle with a united Manchuria, Korea is quite a bit harder and often allies Ming. If you get lucky and find Korea without allies, smash them. Their little country is just about as strong as the whole of Manchuria, so if they are allied to Ming don't even think about trying to blitzkrieg on them unless Ming is having real problems. This can happen. In my game Wu and Yue popped out by 1550. Even then Ming + Korea was way too powerful to take on and I had to ally the Chinese minors and use them as a distraction for Ming while I got enough warscore to force Ming to break the alliance. Then I annexed Korea over the next four wars: one to seize territory, one to re-break the alliance, one to seize territory, one to finish them off. After that it got a lot easier because I'd been able to break some more Chinese minors off Ming in the last war and between their weakness and my newfound vassals I could easily take them head on. But at the most basic level you're playing the waiting game: hope Ming explodes and you can sweep in to clean them out of the north to form Qing, because as they are at game start you don't have a prayer against them and your early game advantage in tech and units will soon fade away. Once you have northern China in the bag you can form Qing and get permaclaims on everything in China. That plus your excellent ideas means you're pretty much unassailable. Future avenues of expansion once tian xia is yours include Indochina, Japan, California, Siberia, even India if you really plow through Indochina. Be sure you develop enough to buy Renaissance, which will take forever to get to you otherwise. Printing Press you should probably develop for as well. The rest shouldn't be any trouble, you may even spawn a couple.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:32
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CharlestheHammer posted:Oh my god i love eu4 but it does some really fiddly, unfun micromanagement here and there. another great example: naval warfare
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Nov 16, 2016 23:40
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Yes hello Johan, I was wondering... Could you make it easier to exterminate the natives? They're always just in the way. Thanks.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:42
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Eej posted:Yes hello Johan, I was wondering... Could you make it easier to exterminate the natives? They're always just in the way. Thanks. PATCH NOTES 1.20: --Streamlined procedures for genocide
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Nov 16, 2016 23:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:Oh my god i mean maybe you enjoy micromanaging diplomats but i'd rather be doing actually interesting things?
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Nov 17, 2016 00:01
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I have literally never cared because it's such a non thing I have never even thought about it
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Nov 17, 2016 00:04
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I still think the central and south american kingdoms should start with feudalism and then have to reform to have access to the rest of the institutions.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:44
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Dreylad posted:I still think the central and south american kingdoms should start with feudalism and then have to reform to have access to the rest of the institutions. Institutions should just take much longer to move between religions and cultures Giving them feudalism would make sense though, they had proper states
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Nov 17, 2016 00:48
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PleasingFungus posted:free up a diplomat, watch for the envoy cooldown to time out, send him over, watch for the spy network to become large enough, fabricate the claim, repeat several times if necessary, oh you got distracted and he got kicked out of the country and you need to send him over again, ok you're done so now take the envoy back home again & watch for the new cooldown to time out so you can reassign him... You only need one CB, and even if you let your diplomat get caught you're still guaranteed to get that with the spy network size that is left over. Your explanation makes it sound like you're fabricating on every province that you want before declaring, but that's often pointless.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:53
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QuarkJets posted:You only need one CB, and even if you let your diplomat get caught you're still guaranteed to get that with the spy network size that is left over. Your explanation makes it sound like you're fabricating on every province that you want before declaring, but that's often pointless. his point is that it's significantly worse than it used to be, and he used a slightly exaggerated example to show how.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:55
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awesmoe posted:his point is that it's significantly worse than it used to be, and he used a slightly exaggerated example to show how. It's more involved than "here's your open CB against all primitives", sure. But claim fabrication is so stupidly easy that it's a non-issue. Plus, under the old system your CB went away as primitives reformed, often leaving you no recourse
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Nov 17, 2016 01:04
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The spy network growth speed is kinda bad halfway across the world.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:10
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awesmoe posted:his point is that it's significantly worse than it used to be, and he used a slightly exaggerated example to show how. It's better actually, having a free CB against half the world was dumb.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:12
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They just need to replace fabricating claims with a general border friction CB that everyone gets, or allow you to fabricate claims on the state level. Fabricating claims on multiple provinces is really boring and dumb.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:25
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CharlestheHammer posted:I have literally never cared because it's such a non thing I have never even thought about it It's really cool every time you barge into the thread to tell everyone that you don't care about something and everyone who does is wrong.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:28
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Claims are pretty much just for the CB now, there's not much more to it. The old expansion and exploration CBs were really powerful, was the big draw with them. No cost and half price for huge chunks of land. To be honest now I'm thinking about it more, it was a bit ridiculous. There should be something to represent the rapid conquest of the Aztec and Inca though, but there are a few places in the world with events like that that are currently impossible.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:29
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Fister Roboto posted:It's really cool every time you barge into the thread to tell everyone that you don't care about something and everyone who does is wrong. If you stopped being wrong it would go a long way to fixing that.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:30
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Fister Roboto posted:They just need to replace fabricating claims with a general border friction CB that everyone gets, or allow you to fabricate claims on the state level. Fabricating claims on multiple provinces is really boring and dumb. global sengoku
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Nov 17, 2016 01:35
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QuarkJets posted:You only need one CB, and even if you let your diplomat get caught you're still guaranteed to get that with the spy network size that is left over. Your explanation makes it sound like you're fabricating on every province that you want before declaring, but that's often pointless. Not all of them, but it's often worthwhile to fabricate claims on multiple provinces, especially if they have high development (to minimize admin & diplo costs of conquest). Less relevant for most native conquests, of course.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:38
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I'm the guy who fabricates every province I want cause I wanna get that -10% warscore cost/-10% core creation cost/-10% autonomy.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:08
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Eej posted:I'm the guy who fabricates every province I want cause I wanna get that -10% warscore cost/-10% core creation cost/-10% autonomy. Hey might as well, unless you need to conquer something right now there is no reason not too.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:14
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CharlestheHammer posted:Hey might as well, unless you need to conquer something right now there is no reason not too. I wish you could fabricate claims on the guy you're warring against during war. There is already an incentive to leave your spy in the nation you're fighting due to the siege ability bonus, which can speed wars up pretty noticeably, and AE reduction. I wish you could choose to trade that for the ability to be like "by the way, these six provinces of yours im occupying now? Totally Manchurian clay since 5000 yrs of glorious history"
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Nov 17, 2016 02:21
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I was thinking of doing a Coptic Ottomans Mare Nostrum run but I realized it's been years since I changed my nation's religion without the use of events. How does that actually work nowadays?
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Nov 17, 2016 02:53
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Why is it that sometimes I need to re-make cores? It's instantaneous to do so but I'd like to avoid it and hang onto the AP if I could.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:55
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Did you remove them and re-add them to a state? It wipes your cores if you turn a state into a territory.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:57
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snoremac posted:Why is it that sometimes I need to re-make cores? It's instantaneous to do so but I'd like to avoid it and hang onto the AP if I could. are you talking about like. right after you gain them in a peace deal. i think you pay half of the coring cost, then state them, then the rest of the coring cost is instant
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Nov 17, 2016 03:00
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Koramei posted:Did you remove them and re-add them to a state? It wipes your cores if you turn a state into a territory. I'd just turned territories into states.
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Nov 17, 2016 03:27
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Then they weren't full cores yet. They were only territorial cores, so you still have to pay the other half of the admin point cost.
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Nov 17, 2016 03:30
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PleasingFungus posted:Not all of them, but it's often worthwhile to fabricate claims on multiple provinces, especially if they have high development (to minimize admin & diplo costs of conquest). Less relevant for most native conquests, of course. Right, and we were talking about lovely native land, so... why would you need multiple CBs? It's even less important when you're feeding a vassal or a CN
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Nov 17, 2016 04:25
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Koramei posted:Claims are pretty much just for the CB now, there's not much more to it. The old expansion and exploration CBs were really powerful, was the big draw with them. No cost and half price for huge chunks of land. as opposed to the religious cb which comes earlier in the idea tree and works against even more of the world
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Nov 17, 2016 05:27
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It also has a cut off date and honestly most of the rest of the religious tree isn't very good.
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Nov 17, 2016 05:29
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It works right up until January 1, 1821, and the rest of the ideas are solid, and taking the group gives you tons of stability events for free.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:05
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Yashichi posted:It works right up until January 1, 1821, and the rest of the ideas are solid, and taking the group gives you tons of stability events for free. I thought it stopped after 1650? Heretics stick to the end. Free stability is nice but not that great
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Nov 17, 2016 06:07
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CharlestheHammer posted:I have literally never cared because it's such a non thing I have never even thought about it fabricating claims is much like your threadshitting here; it is tedious and contributes nothing interesting
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Nov 17, 2016 06:11
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