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Main Paineframe posted:If student loan forgiveness gets passed during a Trump presidency and internment camps don't, then four years from now all the Trump voters are going to say "see, I told you he was just posturing and wasn't really racist" and "see, I told you he'd fix the economy, unlike those idiot Dems who couldn't do a single successful progressive thing in eight whole years". And then they'll reelect him, because in this hypothetical future, he passed progressive economic measures while not getting any racist policies passed. I'd rather not be complicit in making Donald J. Trump the best president for the country in decades. This isn't going to happen him. Neocon vultures are already swarming over his transition team like a carcass.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:23
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Helping Trump be successful would be disastrous because it would mean Republicans who are much worse keep running and winning and appointing Republicans. A successful Trump would probably mean President Cruz. Better to let him fail on his own stupid merits than try and help him succeed and get blamed when he fails anyway.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:23
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What's the Student Loan policy thing people are bandying around.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:24
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If Trump turning out to be the next FDR and making the Democrats look like a bunch of jerks is actually in your top 100 Trump nightmare scenarios you need to plan against I think we are occupying rapidly diverging realities yours sounds pleasant
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Nov 17, 2016 21:25
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Hollismason posted:What's the Student Loan policy thing people are bandying around. The only thing the alt left cares about
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Nov 17, 2016 21:27
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Lol Trump wants to Privatize student loans . That would be loving disastrous. Can you imagine the poo poo that would happen when banks are able to loan out for college a debt you can never get rid of. Gàaaaaaaaaah
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Nov 17, 2016 21:27
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:If Trump turning out to be the next FDR and making the Democrats look like a bunch of jerks is actually in your top 100 Trump nightmare scenarios you need to plan against I think we are occupying rapidly diverging realities The Dems are saying they'll help him with the economic parts of his platform while blocking the racist parts of his platform. If the economic parts of his platform get passed but not the racist parts, he'll be a tremendously successful president.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:28
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I give that bubble 3 years at the most.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:28
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american history's greatest socialist hero, Donald J. Trump
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Nov 17, 2016 21:29
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Taking the national out of national socialism
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Nov 17, 2016 21:29
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:A compromise on infrastructure spending that amounts to a massive federal handout to Trump's corporate buddies as a "jobs program" is terrible policy, normalizes Trump, and is exactly the kind of thing Schumer would do. Bernie is trying to play a game here and he's being real careful to keep it to poo poo that's actually in his platform, but I think it's more likely to backfire because I don't think the Senate has his shared principles. If the Dems adopt the nihilistic McConnell strategy of grinding the government to a screeching halt and blocking things even if they agree ideologically how can we credibly counter the Republicans claim that government is dysfunctional? Dems have an obligation to try to actually run the government and pass legislation that helps people. If in fact Trump is a total fraud and never tries to pass any legislation that does anything helpful then Bernie and Warren won't help him, I don't see what the big deal is just saying that on the off chance he does try to push something not bad they won't block it.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:30
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Main Paineframe posted:The Dems are saying they'll help him with the economic parts of his platform while blocking the racist parts of his platform. If the economic parts of his platform get passed but not the racist parts, he'll be a tremendously successful president. In a hypothetical situation where Trump's economic platform was good (hint: it's not going to be), I really don't see a problem with that.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:30
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I like how this thread is entirely ignoring what Ryan/McConnell want to do
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Nov 17, 2016 21:31
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Main Paineframe posted:The Dems are saying they'll help him with the economic parts of his platform while blocking the racist parts of his platform. If the economic parts of his platform get passed but not the racist parts, he'll be a tremendously successful president. If the economic parts of Trump's platform get passed and not the racist parts and bring us into a new golden age we'll have tangible proof that there is a God and Donald Trump is his prophet. Andrast posted:In a hypothetical situation where Trump's economic platform was good (hint: it's not going to be), I really don't see a problem with that. I have so many questions about the kind of person who could look at President Trump and think "but what if that guy actually turning out to be the best thing to happen to the American people in my lifetime negatively impacts the Democratic Party's election strategy" A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 21:31
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:If Trump turning out to be the next FDR and making the Democrats look like a bunch of jerks is actually in your top 100 Trump nightmare scenarios you need to plan against I think we are occupying rapidly diverging realities In practical terms nothing Trump wants that the Republican Party in general doesn't will happen because he can't introduce bills to Congress. The goal is to keep the stink of loser failure off of the Democrats when he inevitably flames out trying for a 40% tariff on China nobody smart thought about for more than a fraction of a second before lining up behind it in support.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:32
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According to Gallup, Trump's favorability rating has risen by 8 points since the election. While it's still quite low compared to other modern presidents, his favorability rating is now at its highest level since 2011. 
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Nov 17, 2016 21:33
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:If the economic parts of Trump's platform get passed and not the racist parts and bring us into a new golden age gently caress let's do away with the rest of the government and just make Trump emperor. Trump's economic policy is by and large completely stupid so this won't happen. Also as I said, the problem is that Trump is a Republican. And Republicans would get credit in the hypothetical fantasy world where he doesn't suck as president. Republican presidents are inevitably disasters because they appoint other Republicans to every level of government and ruin everything they touch. It is not in our interest for Republicans to blunder into success because we won't get credit for it and it furthers their ability to sink the country at an ever faster rate. Edit: ^ this country is shockingly dumb lmao
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Nov 17, 2016 21:36
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Some people are willing to vote to maintain the economic status quo (or a slow plod forward), even if the status quo is poo poo, because they are afraid that the compromise position will make oppression worse when Democrats decide it's worth just abandoning certain moral positions because they cost votes. Black Lives Matter is not that easy to support right now, politically, and there's no shortage of civil rights issues that even "progressive" leaders like Bernie have completely given up on (drone assassinations, no fly list, surveillance...) This is a signal flare right into that anxiety. Basically, most of the poo poo that causes you to think of the current administration as authoritarian garbage? Working with Trump to pass economically beneficial legislation normalizes and enhances that slide. That doesn't mean I have steadfast opposition to supporting anything that helps people while Trump is president. That would be stupid. I just don't want to sell out civil rights in the process, and I think that making the narrative "Oh, sure, we'll work with you  " doesn't help. I think it acts more like a carrot to implement oppressive policies that we already know are popular and that we already know Republicans have the votes for.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:35
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Main Paineframe posted:According to Gallup, Trump's favorability rating has risen by 8 points since the election. While it's still quite low compared to other modern presidents, his favorability rating is now at its highest level since 2011. yes, that's generally what happens directly after an election. let's see where that number lands after the honeymoon period is over
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Nov 17, 2016 21:37
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This article is similar to my position: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/the_democrats_are_already_screwing_up_the_trump_resistance.html quote:At first glance, this seems well and good: a firm commitment to winning victories where they are available, tied to an absolute line against policies targeting immigrants, Muslims, or any other group. But there’s a problem here, and it’s found in the cast given to Trump’s campaign and Trump’s voters. Both Warren and Sanders describe Trump’s effort as a populist campaign with an almost incidental use of racial prejudice. In this version, most Trump voters simply wanted a stronger, fairer economy. The attacks on immigrants, Muslims, and black Americans were regrettable, but not a part of the appeal.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:40
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Lightning Knight posted:Trump's economic policy is by and large completely stupid so this won't happen. You literally 1. took a look at Donald Trump, the guy who reads Hitler speeches for inspiration and brags about ripping people off, and thought to yourself "I dunno, this guy has some good ideas, maybe he really could cure what's ailing America" 2. then committed to sabotaging the country in that case and sinking tens of millions of innocent people into avoidable misery, because it wouldn't be your guy getting all the credit I don't know man I think you might just be a complete tit
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Nov 17, 2016 21:40
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NewForumSoftware posted:It seems the general consensus is that anything good accomplished by Trump would not be worth whatever the cost because it would "legitimize" him I'll put it as simply as possible. Republicans obstructed our government and literally took away *the power of* the president of the United States to appoint supreme court justices for 8 years. Before that 8 years a Republican drove us into a massive recession. Why the gently caress should any democrat consider compromise with them? E: *
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Nov 17, 2016 21:40
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:If the economic parts of Trump's platform get passed and not the racist parts and bring us into a new golden age gently caress let's do away with the rest of the government and just make Trump emperor. Personally I'd prefer the "emperor for life" position go to someone who wouldn't appoint a climate change denier to be the head of the EPA, and I'd also like it very much if Trump isn't the one who gets to choose Ginsburg's replacement. While we're worrying about appointments, he's also going to get to replace all five members of the NLRB, which declared one of his hotels in violation of labor law earlier this month.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:41
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The truth is that everyone's real scared right now, and nobody trusts anybody to actually stand up for what's right. Distrust among democrats is running real deep.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:41
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Acid Haze posted:I'll put it as simply as possible. Republicans obstructed our government and literally took away the president of the United States to appoint supreme court justices for 8 years. Before that 8 years a Republican drove us into a massive recession. Because a broken clock is still right twice a day, and throwing away the moral high ground over an absolute uncertainty is foolish? It costs nothing to say you'll show up if they show up, especially if you don't believe they'll show up. If they do, and things get done? Everyone's better off.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:42
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Serious question my wife has been working at nonprofits for 6 years with her clinical license in social work for $25k/year because the student loan reform bill from 6 years ago allowed your loans to be forgiven if you work for the public good for 10 years. How boned are we.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:43
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Main Paineframe posted:Personally I'd prefer the "emperor for life" position go to someone who wouldn't appoint a climate change denier to be the head of the EPA, and I'd also like it very much if Trump isn't the one who gets to choose Ginsburg's replacement. While we're worrying about appointments, he's also going to get to replace all five members of the NLRB, which declared one of his hotels in violation of labor law earlier this month. In the Harry Turtledove alternate universe you describe Trump is the singular greatest economic and political genius in the entire history of mankind, not a grifter who realized he knew more about salesmanship than our terminally inbred Beltway aristocracy and took their Presidency away from them because he could, so why worry?
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Nov 17, 2016 21:44
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:You literally Actually I explicitly said that the notion that he won't suck as president is a complete fantasy, maybe you should read closer. I jus also think the Democrats shouldn't compromise with the Republicans in ways that benefit Republicans. Even a good plan on paper will fail because Republicans are morons.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:44
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zegermans posted:Serious question my wife has been working at nonprofits for 6 years with her clinical license in social work for $25k/year because the student loan reform bill from 6 years ago allowed your loans to be forgiven if you work for the public good for 10 years. They could overturn that in reconciliation so probably pretty boned. mcmagic fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 21:45
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Lightning Knight posted:Actually I explicitly said that the notion that he won't suck as president is a complete fantasy, maybe you should read closer. republicans being very fiscally liberal doesn't help them at all
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Nov 17, 2016 21:47
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Niton posted:Because a broken clock is still right twice a day, and throwing away the moral high ground over an absolute uncertainty is foolish? Tell me what the moral high ground has done for Democrats. We are fighting a massive counter-factual machine that now has executive authority. Christ, does the uncertainty of Trump being the supreme commander of the armed forces of the US ring a few alarm bells here? If any of you think Trump is going to come around and turn out to be this perfect centrist democrat, you're loving fools. Look at the appointments already. Listen to what they're saying. This isn't a loving joke anymore it's reality. Acid Haze fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 21:48
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:republicans being very fiscally liberal doesn't help them at all In a hypothetical world where they pass even a half assed infrastructure bill they'll get credit for it. Historically as soon as Republicans gain full control they abandon all pretense to fiscal conservatism. They're already doing that by suspending the debt ceiling. They'll do economic stimulus in the shittiest ways possible but it'll happen and they'll get credit for it. As we've said, white working class people clearly don't give a gently caress if minorities are hosed if they get some money. What do you think the Republican plan is?
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Nov 17, 2016 21:49
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Lightning Knight posted:
I voted for Hillary in the primary mostly because I thought she'd be better able to implement some progressive policies than Bernie. She's accomplished a lot in 30 years. I also was a bit worried about Bernie's faltering minority outreach. I was stupid.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:49
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Tim Ryan's letter to his Democratic colleagues:Tim Ryan posted:Dear Democratic Colleague, Has anyone beyond Pelosi and Tim Ryan actually thrown their hat in the ring for Minority Leader? Pelosi looked shook on camera yesterday. Also, side note....there was a rumor a few years back (before Tim Ryan was married) that he was banging Pelosi's daughter, which makes this kind of funny.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:50
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If the federal government is just going to consist of one party indiscriminately blocking 100% of legislation proposed from the other party into eternity why not just tear it apart like the Republicans want? I don't see how you can simultaneously claim that blocking 100% of legislation (unless literally 100% of the proposed legislation is bad) is a good strategy and also that the government is not hopelessly broken and dysfunctional.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:52
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Hollismason posted:Lol Trump wants to Privatize student loans . Private Student Loans already exist. Trump wants to remove the Feds as guarantor for all the public ones, which means their interest rates will go up around 2% or so.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:52
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Mahoning posted:Tim Ryan's letter to his Democratic colleagues: Tim Ryan wasn't pro choice until 1 year ago. He's not going to win.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:52
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:or bernie knows the historic need for trump to have the trains run on time You realize the Clinton wing is already also promising to with Trump right? Only they can't wait to help him cut Wall Street regulation and get rid of Medicare. But I'm sure they'll stand up for your Civil Rights (they won't)
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Nov 17, 2016 21:53
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Filthy Hans posted:I voted for Hillary in the primary mostly because I thought she'd be better able to implement some progressive policies than Bernie. She's accomplished a lot in 30 years. I also was a bit worried about Bernie's faltering minority outreach. I mean in the technical sense if we had won the way the polls were showing, you would've been right. But we didn't. mcmagic posted:Tim Ryan wasn't pro choice until 1 year ago. He's not going to win. Oof. I was going to say he sounds pretty ok but, uh, yeah...
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Nov 17, 2016 21:54
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https://twitter.com/SykesCharlie/status/796390938436313088 Posted without comment.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:55
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