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P-Mack posted:I remember it was mentioned a while back that Japan independently came up with countermarching pike and shot tactics at the same time as in Europe if not earlier. Wasn't it the Portuguese that brought firearms to Japan? Of course, Japanese quickly fell in love with the things...
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Nov 18, 2016 17:17
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JcDent posted:Wasn't it the Portuguese that brought firearms to Japan? Of course, Japanese quickly fell in love with the things... Dutch brought the first guns. Pavise/screens were used in the Gempei war but had fallen out of wide use when guns started showing up. E:auto correct and phone posting sucks DiHK fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 17:25
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JcDent posted:
British did it first. 
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Nov 18, 2016 17:25
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Is that a Carden-Lloyd with a 2pdr?
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Nov 18, 2016 18:09
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What's the most comprehensively failed first/preventive strike/surprise attack?
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Nov 18, 2016 18:12
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aphid_licker posted:What's the most comprehensively failed first/preventive strike/surprise attack? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 18:14
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aphid_licker posted:What's the most comprehensively failed first/preventive strike/surprise attack? Kursk?
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Nov 18, 2016 18:15
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Well, if you're playing hte long game and looking at all the consequences Barbarossa or Pearl Harbor are probably way up the list.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:20
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Cyrano4747 posted:Well, if you're playing hte long game and looking at all the consequences Barbarossa or Pearl Harbor are probably way up the list.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:21
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aphid_licker posted:What's the most comprehensively failed first/preventive strike/surprise attack? It worked out for them in the end, but Prussia's sneak attack on Saxony that started the 7yw put them in an awful diplomatic position that took a lot of skill and luck to get out of.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:22
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Fangz posted:Kursk? I was hoping for something in the vein of Pearl Harbor, only they hit the wrong island and also all the fuzes are of the BuOrd variety, so Cadiz is really doing it for me. Holy poo poo.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:23
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I want to take a moment to say a word or two about my German fellow-travelers Austria-Hungary and Italy. The Austro-Hungarian invasion of Serbia was awful initially. The Italian invasion of Greece was similarly a joke. Strategically, 1812 invasion of Russia.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:24
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If I actually get a Taiping update done this weekend I'll have a real laffer for ya.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:30
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aphid_licker posted:I was hoping for something in the vein of Pearl Harbor, only they hit the wrong island and also all the fuzes are of the BuOrd variety, so Cadiz is really doing it for me. Holy poo poo.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:31
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Cadiz is pretty much when they decided the Royal Navy might have a little bit of a drinking problem as well as poor as gently caress social skills and they should do something about it.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:38
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Well, two examples from my neck of the woods: Serbo-Bulgarian war of 1885. Serbian king wants to show that he can play the imperialism game, orders an invasion of allied Bulgaria without a declaration of war. Complete and utter disaster. Second Balkan war, 1913. Bulgarian tzar wants to show that he can play the imperialism game, orders an invasion of allied Serbia without a declaration of war. Complete and utter disaster.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:46
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Please go into detail. Also, invading allies, wow.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:48
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JcDent posted:It was apparently from a Hezbollah column that also included T-54s and Kornet missiles on quadbikes. Someone's been watching The Delta Force a little too much, I see. Or maybe MegaForce. 
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Nov 18, 2016 18:50
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my dad posted:Well, two examples from my neck of the woods: Oh man, I forgot about Balkan War 2: Bugarian Bugaloo. That is up there for sure.
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Nov 18, 2016 19:01
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JcDent posted:Please go into detail. Also, invading allies, wow. Short version: Serbo-Bulgarian War - Serbia helps Bulgarian revolutionaries. In the meantime, Serbia becomes a dictatorship and a puppet of the Habsburgs via our rear end in a top hat king's policies, our democrats revolt, our democrats get crushed by the army, and our democrats flee to Bulgaria. Bulgaria finally manages to unify its two halves in one state, Habsburgs aren't fans of this and encourage our king to invade Bulgaria, and seeing it a way to show off his imperialism boner and get his hands on the renegade democrats, he does so. The war starts without a declaration, Serbian soldiers are told that they're actually fighting the Ottomans, half the army remains at home because the people hated the king's guts, the king tells his general-staff to step aside so that he can personally lead, and, oh, yeah, Bulgaria had an army that had just finished kicking the poo poo out of the Ottomans and was absolutely not a pushover. The only reason Serbia wasn't crushed afterwards is Habsburg intervention. Second Balkan War - Complicated politics after the First Balkan War, but long story short, Bulgaria wasn't happy about the results. The Bulgarians tzar decides this can only be fixed by war, and Bulgarian army invades Serbia in the middle of the night without a declaration of war. The attack fails, and Bulgaria is caught in a really, really bad situation and dogpiled by all of its neighbors with predictable results.
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Nov 18, 2016 19:03
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Kinda explains why Civ is getting more into the cassus beli territory
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Nov 18, 2016 19:25
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Phanatic posted:British did it first.  E:  Apparently there is very little the Germans won't try to glue onto a bren carrier.
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Nov 18, 2016 19:52
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Fangz posted:Kursk? Kursk was the least surprising surprise attack in history
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Nov 18, 2016 19:55
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How many Bren carriers do ypu have weld together to get an 88mm carrier?
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Nov 18, 2016 19:56
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That's what Tigers actually were, they just tied several of them together and then put a big sheet metal tea cosy over the whole affair.
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Nov 18, 2016 20:12
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JcDent posted:How many Bren carriers do ypu have weld together to get an 88mm carrier? 4
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Nov 18, 2016 20:14
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OwlFancier posted:E:
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Nov 18, 2016 20:17
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Oh my God those are adorable. 
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Nov 18, 2016 20:20
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aphid_licker posted:What's the most comprehensively failed first/preventive strike/surprise attack? Central Powers, 1914.
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Nov 18, 2016 20:53
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Hey, milhist thread. Have a kind of wacky theory but I figure someone here may know the answer. 88 is a common white supremacist/nazi shibboleth for "Heil Hitler." Was the Flak 88 made/invented by Nazis?
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Nov 18, 2016 21:02
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Hey, milhist thread. Have a kind of wacky theory but I figure someone here may know the answer. 88 is a common white supremacist/nazi shibboleth for "Heil Hitler." Was the Flak 88 made/invented by Nazis? Literally by Hitler himself.
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Nov 18, 2016 21:05
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Hey, milhist thread. Have a kind of wacky theory but I figure someone here may know the answer. 88 is a common white supremacist/nazi shibboleth for "Heil Hitler." Was the Flak 88 made/invented by Nazis? Made, yes, invented possibly not, it was designed in 1928, there's also the Flak 16 which is very similar and that was a first world war gun. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 21:06
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OwlFancier posted:
It's called universal for a reason!
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Nov 18, 2016 21:16
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Hey, milhist thread. Have a kind of wacky theory but I figure someone here may know the answer. 88 is a common white supremacist/nazi shibboleth for "Heil Hitler." Was the Flak 88 made/invented by Nazis?
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Nov 18, 2016 21:18
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Hey, milhist thread. Have a kind of wacky theory but I figure someone here may know the answer. 88 is a common white supremacist/nazi shibboleth for "Heil Hitler." Was the Flak 88 made/invented by Nazis? Just a coincidence. I think 88/HH is a fairly modern thing anyway. Also "Flak 88" is not the proper name, the family of guns consists of the Flak 18, Flak 36, and Flak 37.
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Nov 18, 2016 21:21
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8.8 cm was just a pretty common caliber in the German navy from the 19th century. WWI capital ships used it as an anti-aircraft gun. Just a co-incidence. http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_Main.php#Smaller_Caliber_and_Anti-Aircraft_Guns
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Nov 18, 2016 21:32
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Fangz posted:8.8 cm was just a pretty common caliber in the German navy from the 19th century. WWI capital ships used it as an anti-aircraft gun. Just a co-incidence. 88mm was just the reich caliber for the job. 
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Nov 18, 2016 21:38
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I'm not sure if calling them 88s is a wartime thing or postwar thing, though. Either way, it's the calibre, so I expect convergent evolution.
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Nov 18, 2016 21:39
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spectralent posted:I'm not sure if calling them 88s is a wartime thing or postwar thing, though. Either way, it's the calibre, so I expect convergent evolution. US troops frequently referred to German artillery as '88s during the war, often without any knowledge of the types of guns actually shooting at them.
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Nov 18, 2016 21:56
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MANime in the sheets posted:US troops frequently referred to German artillery as '88s during the war, often without any knowledge of the types of guns actually shooting at them. Yeah, mass media iconography is a hell of a thing. Nowadays, people are still convinced that every German artillery piece was a flak gun.
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Nov 18, 2016 22:00
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