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Lars Blitzer
Aug 17, 2004

He drinks a Whiskey drink, he drinks a Vodka drink
He drinks a Lager drink, he drinks a Cider drink...


Dick Tracy's number one fan.

Powershift posted:

A bible thumping, home-schooled, anti-abortion, anti-sex ed nutcase in a conservative stronghold that has never voted for anything other than PC, not a good example.

A while back the riding of Alberta-Medicine Hat was vacated when the PC MP died of a heart attack. When it was reported that he was originally parachuted in from the other side of the province to stand for the PCs and how could anyone vote for him since it's obvious he doesn't have a stake in his constituency someone in this thread pointed out that in that riding the PCs could have nominated a potted ficus plant and it could have had a better than even chance of winning. I guess they're pushing that principle to extremes.

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Normy
Jul 1, 2004

Do I Krushchev?


James Baud posted:

The NDP vote is inefficiently concentrated on the island and a few high density urban ridings so they'll lose again because environment vs jobs kills them elsewhere. Also the entire slate of MLAs have been invisible other than Eby. I honestly don't know how they've been so terrible. Sure, the legislature never sits, but you don't need it.

You could say the same thing about the liberals re: invisibility but I guess that isn't so bad when you're the incumbents.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



NB NDP leader Dominic Cardy trying to shore up support amongst the progressive base:

quote:

Good article. I have no time for the regressive left silliness that whines about 'microaggressions' but Summers is right in reminding us that there are people who want to roll back equal rights for various groups and someone those people support is about to move into the White House.

Well I guess microaggressions aren't a thing according to a wealthy white male in 95.7% white New Brunswick, and as the leader of a party with zero seats and 13% of the vote in the last election, he can obviously afford to shed support from the "regressive left".

*cue another 10 pages of debate about how some minor facet of this brief non-story explains exactly why the left is losing worldwide*

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.
Do we really expect a provincial legislature to make law regarding microaggressions? What would such a law look like?

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
Dominic Cardy was supposed to resign years ago and his party literally begged him to stay because nobody else wanted the job. He's been talking about the need for the NDP to "modernize" by ditching any left-wing ideas for like twenty years now.

He was also one of the introductory speakers at Tom Mulcair's campaign launch. He did eventually turn on Mulcair though:

quote:

"With the way the federal NDP campaign rolled out last year, from around halfway through the campaign, there were a lot of positions that I didn't feel particularly comfortable with," he said.

"I'm not particularly interested in spending my weekend talking with the party as they decide which of the positions they are going to take going into the future because I don't have any real confidence that they will be kept to."

In particular, Cardy said he was frustrated by Mulcair's decision to come out against the Trans-Pacific Partnership deal during the campaign even though he hadn't read the text. The provincial leader said losing free trade agreements would hurt New Brunswick industries.

Cardy also said he was "very disheartened" by the NDP's position on the war in Syria.

"The NDP federally took a position saying that we would disengage completely from all military action in the Middle East, something I thought was both not responsible and not something that the party agreed to, which is my core concern," he said.

So yeah, Cardy is a giant piece of poo poo.

Jimbozig posted:

Do we really expect a provincial legislature to make law regarding microaggressions? What would such a law look like?

The issue is that Cardy is praising a lovely article by a well known sexist rear end in a top hat about how political correctness basically caused Trump. This is less about a specific piece of legislation that might ever be drafted and more about Cardy being an idiot.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Jimbozig posted:

Do we really expect a provincial legislature to make law regarding microaggressions? What would such a law look like?

Does this count?

Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009

I consider posting to be macro-aggression.

Chicken
Apr 23, 2014

Latest Hebert column:

quote:

The opposition parties hold the majority at the electoral reform table and, in any event, no government is bound to implement the prescription of a committee. If such an obligation existed, Canada’s new law on medically assisted suicide would be a lot less restrictive. But if Trudeau is presented with an opposition consensus as to the way forward on the voting system he will, at a minimum, have to come up with the kind of coherent response that has been sorely lacking to date.

This week, democratic reform minister Maryam Monsef reported, on the basis of her own consultations, that there was no consensus within the public as to a preferred voting system. The representations made to the committee on the other hand have tended to favour a more proportional system. Consensus, in this instance, is very much in the opportunistic eye of the beholder. But more on that later in this column.

The odds of a majority committee report increased this week when the NDP signalled that it could support the Conservative call for any new voting system to be put to a national referendum. If there is solid majority within the electorate to be found for anything pertaining to electoral reform, it revolves around the notion that a change should be approved through a national plebiscite.

What the hell NDP? The only way I could justify this is as a hedge against the Liberals imposing instant runoff or something.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
I'd prefer a decent proportional representation system being implemented through legislation and there are huge dangers to a referendum but I imagine a lot of people are going to agree with the conservatives that a major overhaul of the voting system should be approved by the voters themselves. It may also be the only way to pressure the Liberals into not adopting a much weaker version of reform.

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

The logic I think is that the liberals are clearly gunning for AV (a bad system worse than FPTP even) so we're going to push for a referendum to ensure its failure.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


THC posted:

The logic I think is that the liberals are clearly gunning for AV (a bad system worse than FPTP even) so we're going to push for a referendum to ensure its failure.

Why is it worse than FPTP?

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


I think the liberals and conservatives have both run every possible computer model to figure out which would put them into power for the longest period, and should there be a referendum, they would spend millions on advertising for their choice of system. Trudeau will probably hold off until it's closer to the general election to eat up a bit of the conservative coffers, take another majority, and have another 5 years of rule before having to give up their majority to a fair voting system.

Mulcair will never leave, so the NDP is going to be irrelevant for the foreseeable future.

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

It would basically guarantee permanent Liberal majorities forever, for one thing. The opposition parties aren't too thrilled about that.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
Speaking of Liberals, notice how this American liberal critique of Donald Trump's economic platform is one find+replace away from being a critique of Justin Trudeau.

quote:

Unsexy, Very Important

ByJOSH MARSHALLPublishedNOVEMBER 19, 2016, 1:05 PM EDT
3807Views
I'm a huge supporter of infrastructure spending - both for the multiple economic benefits of large-scale infrastructure projects and the more mundane reason that the things you build are good to have: roads, modern rail systems, airports, bridges that don't collapse, modern energy infrastructure. The list is almost endless. This makes a lot of people excited about Donald Trump's push for infrastructure spending. But put on the brakes and don't get excited. As I mentioned a few days ago, Trump isn't proposing major spending on infrastructure projects. He's proposing 'public private partnerships', which as we explained here are in most cases efficient ways to sell off public goods to private corporations.

But it's actually even worse than that.

There are two really good short articles out today which begin to explain what's happening. There won't be any infrastructure spending. There will be a mix of tax giveaways and and corporate welfare to incentivize private sector infrastructure spending. And there is good reason to think that most of those giveaways will simply be pocketed for spending that was already happening. In other words, big giveaways, more budget busting without even getting the benefit of new stuff or spurring demand.

Start with Ron Klain's article here in The Washington Post and Paul Krugman's in The New York Times here. This is a mix of privatization and tax giveaways which in all likelihood will not even lead to building much of any new stuff.

Supercar Gautier
Jun 10, 2006

I'm torn on ranked balloting. I do think it's important for the ballot to reflect the complexity of voter preferences (most voters feel varying degrees of approval for the parties, not just "my party or bust"), and a transferable vote would also make people more confident in giving their top vote to a long-shot outsider party.

But there is the issue that the most centrist party tends to benefit-- the Liberals would scoop up a ton of 2nd-choice votes from both NDP and CPC voters. I'm not sure what the answer is to that, but it needs to be addressed before implementing a ranked system.

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

I saw the idea of a "props and slops" ballot where you vote for one party to give +1 vote to and another to give -1 vote to. It wasn't a serious suggestion, I don't think, but the idea of a system where conservatives would be unelectable is nice to think about.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Powershift posted:

Mulcair will never leave, so the NDP is going to be irrelevant for the foreseeable future.

We're having a leadership election in October in which Mulcair won't be a candidate though :confused:


Supercar Gautier posted:

I'm torn on ranked balloting. I do think it's important for the ballot to reflect the complexity of voter preferences (most voters feel varying degrees of approval for the parties, not just "my party or bust"), and a transferable vote would also make people more confident in giving their top vote to a long-shot outsider party.

But there is the issue that the most centrist party tends to benefit-- the Liberals would scoop up a ton of 2nd-choice votes from both NDP and CPC voters. I'm not sure what the answer is to that, but it needs to be addressed before implementing a ranked system.
There is no way to address that - it's an inherent feature of the system. FPTP allows for more ideological diversity than AV does because there's more variation in who the plurality bloc is in a riding than in who the median voter is.

Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009

Helsing posted:

Speaking of Liberals, notice how this American liberal critique of Donald Trump's economic platform is one find+replace away from being a critique of Justin Trudeau.

I agree, we should have kept Harper.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN

Wistful of Dollars posted:

I agree, we should have kept Harper.

Thank God we have Trudeau here to save us from Harper's regressive policies on issues like temporary foreign workers, foreign ownership requirements, privatization, trade, healthcare spending, pipelines, civil servant contracts, healthcare transfers or income taxes. We're so much better off now that the same or worse policies are being implemented by someone with massive public support instead of someone who was at least partially restrained by a hostile media and public.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.
A referendum would be okay if they structured it appropriately (lol they never ever ever would).

If they made it 3 questions:

Should our electoral system be proportional?

Should all MPs represent geographic regions?

Should we have ranked ballots?

Then you can easily go with majority rules for each of the 3. We'd probably end up with STV or MMP. We'd surely end up with something proportional.

Duck Rodgers
Oct 9, 2012

sitchensis posted:

I've done some research on this.

Unsurprisingly, in jurisdictions with significant "buy-in" of wind energy, community owned and co-op ownership models are the most prevalent. They are also encouraged by the relevant authorities.

In Ontario, most wind energy projects are undertaken by large corporate entities looking to get some sweet feed-in-tariffs. Not only was wind-energy insanely profitable (they had obscenely high rates that were guaranteed for decades by the gov't), it was also ridiculously easy to put just about anywhere because Ontario removed the ability for local communities to decide where these projects would go. In effect, these small rural areas had no planning authority over the siting of wind farm projects. This, as you can imagine, was a pretty big pill to swallow.

So yeah, Ontario could have done things much, much better and tbh the outrage of many rural people over wind farms is kind of justified when you look at just how lovely of a system was set up.

I've heard there's more buy in and less complaints about health etc in European countries with community and co-op ownership models. Do you have any recommendations for good articles about the wind power in Ontario (maybe even in comparison to other places)?

Fallen Hamprince
Nov 12, 2016


There's an alberta liberal party?

Albino Squirrel
Apr 25, 2003

Miosis more like meiosis

Fallen Hamprince posted:

There's an alberta liberal party?

There is, now with one lonely MLA. (I'm not sure if David Swann runs as an independent or NDP next election; he's quite respected and will likely win should he choose to run).

However, this appears to be an ad from the last federal election.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

Supercar Gautier posted:

I'm torn on ranked balloting. I do think it's important for the ballot to reflect the complexity of voter preferences (most voters feel varying degrees of approval for the parties, not just "my party or bust"), and a transferable vote would also make people more confident in giving their top vote to a long-shot outsider party.

But there is the issue that the most centrist party tends to benefit-- the Liberals would scoop up a ton of 2nd-choice votes from both NDP and CPC voters. I'm not sure what the answer is to that, but it needs to be addressed before implementing a ranked system.

Liberals have governed for about 70% of the last century. Ranked balloting probably wouldn't keep them in power any more than FPTP but it could help with giving the rest of the parties representation that more closely aligns with how people actually voted.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Lobok posted:

Liberals have governed for about 70% of the last century. Ranked balloting probably wouldn't keep them in power any more than FPTP but it could help with giving the rest of the parties representation that more closely aligns with how people actually voted.

If you rerun the 2015 election, based on actual results and with self-reported second choices from polls and a ranked ballot:

Morroque
Mar 6, 2013

Pinterest Mom posted:

If you rerun the 2015 election, based on actual results and with self-reported second choices from polls and a ranked ballot:



... well on one hand, it craters the Tory representation, which I am unconditionally a fan of.

Too bad it makes us stuck with the Grits, though.

Drunk Canuck
Jan 9, 2010

Robots ruin all the fun of a good adventure.

Gives Elizabeth May too much power IMO

Don't know if I can stomach that scenario.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

Drunk Canuck posted:

Gives Elizabeth May too much power IMO

Don't know if I can stomach that scenario.

You might have indigestion. I recommend a F.A.R.T

DariusLikewise
Oct 4, 2008

You wore that on Halloween?

Pinterest Mom posted:

If you rerun the 2015 election, based on actual results and with self-reported second choices from polls and a ranked ballot:



Those proportional results give me a half-chub. Minority governments always get poo poo on, but the best decisions usually are made through compromise and discussion. Not one party steamrolling every other party with 25% of the vote.

RealityWarCriminal
Aug 10, 2016

:o:

Pinterest Mom posted:

If you rerun the 2015 election, based on actual results and with self-reported second choices from polls and a ranked ballot:



The only way you could look at these, and decide Preferential voting is the way to go, is if you are bunnyofdoom.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy
Or if you think people would vote differently if the system was different.

Which they would.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...ppens-1.3853530

Heeheehee. What a dumbass.

the talent deficit
Dec 20, 2003

self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture





Jordan7hm posted:

Or if you think people would vote differently if the system was different.

Which they would.

parties would campaign differently too. they wouldn't be able to campaign to narrow groups in key ridings.

The Dark One
Aug 19, 2005

I'm your friend and I'm not going to just stand by and let you do this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihhhUEvtJWY


Drunk Canuck posted:

Gives Elizabeth May too much power IMO

Don't know if I can stomach that scenario.

One would hope that a green party with an actual ability to influence legislation would scramble to find a less lovely leader.



e: hope, not expect

The Dark One fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Nov 20, 2016

Drunk Canuck
Jan 9, 2010

Robots ruin all the fun of a good adventure.

Good catch.

Fried Watermelon
Dec 29, 2008



sounds like that dude needs a safe space

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Thank goodness Canada state media reports on this stuff, I was almost not thinking lol americans there for a second.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?

Jordan7hm posted:

Or if you think people would vote differently if the system was different.

Which they would.

Yeah, playing with different scenarios after the fact doesn't work. If the entire voting system is different the parties themselves might be different. How might the decision to join the PC and Reform parties have gone under a preferential system?

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BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000


Before I reached the part about him being American I seriously thought this was a Canadian Conservative trying to push this sort of thing.

edit: I like how asking for more details is having an agenda, this is really what the state of western politics have become, politicians just make poo poo up and expect you to eat it up and if you don't you're obviously an enemy

BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Nov 20, 2016

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