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LeeMajors posted:Between all the whining about Trump protesters inconveniencing people and the conservative Starbucks protest and Hamilton boycott, I'm beginning to wonder if conservatives have any idea what 'protest' means. sitting in a lawn chair watching a brooks & dunn concert on federal property of course
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Nov 20, 2016 08:49
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LeeMajors posted:Between all the whining about Trump protesters inconveniencing people and the conservative Starbucks protest and Hamilton boycott, I'm beginning to wonder if conservatives have any idea what 'protest' means. Given what the Tea Party did during the Obama years it's something like a church picnic with more yelling and less jello salad.
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Nov 20, 2016 08:56
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Bueno Papi posted:I think you're 100% right. The actual repeal of ACA will be one of kick the can down the road like the doc-fix. The repeal may not go into affect until after the midterms but Trump and the HHS will give states waivers to kill their medicaid expansions and exchanges. So there's going to be the future pain of a full repeal and lots of states in the near-term walking away from their medicaid expansions and exchanges, e.g. Kentucky. Even having a full ACA repeal pushed off into the future is gonna murder the individual market overnight. Depending on the breaks. The danger is in thinking the threat of a market failure will somehow spur republicans or their voters into action in sufficient numbers to make a difference. They're convinced they're only killing the ACA for someone else, who doesn't deserve it and is a freeloader, and not for themselves, who always pay their due and earn their way. Hell just look at Kentucky.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:00
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That's just it though the ACA is a pretty well I don't know if complex is right ,but it's certainly not a easy thing for some people to understand. So you get ACA to be a poison pill. Then Republicans are all like " Welp Look what Obama did. The ACA is defunct lets repeal it". It's the same tactic they've figured out works for the last 10 or so years " Break it yourself, Blame Someone Else, get elected because its broken".
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Nov 20, 2016 09:07
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Hollismason posted:That's just it though the ACA is a pretty well I don't know if complex is right ,but it's certainly not a easy thing for some people to understand. So you get ACA to be a poison pill. Then Republicans are all like " Welp Look what Obama did. The ACA is defunct lets repeal it". and we have the nerve to assume the folks who fall for that poo poo will just come running back over to the D side of the ballot and save the country.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:08
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It will work too because no one they want to vote for them is going to go read a in depth article on why ACA is failing and then say " AH HA Really it's because the HHS isn't enforcing certain aspects of it causing it to be disfunctional. Trump put that guy in charge of the ACA and that guy has said he wants to destroy Obama care". That's just not going to happen this is what will happen "OBAMACARE FAILURE THOUSANDS LOSE HEALTH INSURANCE" "OBAMACARE DISASTER" "10 WAYS OBAMACARE FAILED!" Those are going to be the headlines. The rich have figured out a way to convince the poor to a suicide pact.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:11
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i know a lot of people are worried, but look on the bright side, we get to see the beginning of the cyberpunk future
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Nov 20, 2016 09:12
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Nuclear Annihilation of the human race means you don't have to pay your electric bill.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:14
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jynn posted:i know a lot of people are worried, but look on the bright side, we get to see the beginning of the cyberpunk future I'm fairly sure the cyberpunk future began in the '80s. It's been enveloping us so slowly we didn't even notice and now we sit around like dumb old men complaining about millennials and memes.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:15
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Mulva posted:Yeah, if there's one thing I think when looking at the world around me in the 21st Century it's "Boy, I see no cases of religion having massive impacts on the social and political climate. Good thing all that is done, it made things really complicated!". Pfftt.. It has nothing to do with religion silly. Sure they're all following ancient knowledge from our supremely wise ancestors 2000+ years ago, which seems silly on the surface. But down deep it's a pretty sweet psychological control system designed to drain money from the masses while concentrating power to the few smart ones with looser morals and higher charisma with systemic controls that make even questioning those beliefs or demanding proof lessens you in the eyes of everyone else, condemns you to hell or justifies your execution. Religion vs. religion/areligious keeps people from looking too closely at the system they've bought into and the parasites thriving off the system at the top. Religion is the opium of the people. Welcome to the Vatican, the suffering of 1.2 billion people ensures that their almighty god in heaven is pleased by their leaders living in disgusting opulence while a large number of them struggle for basic sustenance, shelter and medical care.  Protestants aren't any better, they just haven't had as long to build up the wealth:  Most of their followers would laugh at anyone who actually believed in Zeus, The Great Raven or Quetzalcoatl without a hint of irony, despite most of the major religions relegating non-believers or believers of other religions to damnation or oblivion. How does this fit here? 25% of the US are white evangelicals. 81% of them voted for Trump (the ones that voted). Religion is also one of the main causes of conflict throughout the world, or is used as an excuse for conflict by those in power to grab more power and wealth. Done I guess. Wow, even I want me to STFU.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:16
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Die Sexmonster! posted:I was commenting on Catholic belief or non in the rapture, but yeah, well read and portrayed, thank you. According to catholic.com, the top source on catholic facts I cared enough to read, Catholics do believe in the rapture like the rest of Christianity, they just call it something else and disagree with some groups about when/how it will happen. *Proof - I am a nun or I googled "do Catholics believe in the rapture?"
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Nov 20, 2016 09:18
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My public school teacher brother said Obamacare needs to go because his premiums keep going up. I told him 5% is below the national average and over time it'll probably be 5% every year in the future regardless if Obamacare exists. This is a man who spent 4 years uninsured. Hurt his back in a horse accident and couldn't get health insurance on the individual market because of his back. He's a loving man who's generous with his time and money. Goes to church every Sunday. Never has a bad thing to say about anyone.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:25
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Hollismason posted:I think they're going to try the kill it through non legislative means, like that article I posted said the HHS has a good amount of leeway with enforcement of the ACA so if they just stop enforcing it like the individual mandate etc. the ACA will just die. I'm skeptical of them sticking with a non-legislative "make it fail" attempt. That wouldn't do anything about the 3.8% investment income tax hike that was part of it, and I find it very hard to believe they'll just let that continue existing. I'm not sure what they'll do at this point, but some legislative action on it seems extremely likely.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:27
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jynn posted:i know a lot of people are worried, but look on the bright side, we get to see the beginning of the cyberpunk future My local SWAT is a private corporation and used a robot to disrobe an old man during a terrorist crisis. What the gently caress is this "beginning" poo poo?
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Nov 20, 2016 09:36
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Bueno Papi posted:My public school teacher brother said Obamacare needs to go because his premiums keep going up. I told him 5% is below the national average and over time it'll probably be 5% every year in the future regardless if Obamacare exists. This is a man who spent 4 years uninsured. Hurt his back in a horse accident and couldn't get health insurance on the individual market because of his back. He's a loving man who's generous with his time and money. Goes to church every Sunday. Never has a bad thing to say about anyone. I've seen several people, who don't use Obamacare of course, arguing that it's terrible because it is SOOO hard to use the website (it's not at all now that it works and has since the first couple of months) and they had to spend days comparing the options to find the best match (you'd have to do that for normal private insurance anyway dumbass, and it doesn't take days unless you're an idiot), it's too expensive (non-exchange isn't cheaper and wasn't before) etc... etc... The shittiest argument I've seen is that it's super expensive and if you actually have to use it for a major medical emergency you'll go bankrupt. What? How.. How does that even make sense? If you have no insurance you're guaranteed to be saddled with debt forever or forced to declare bankruptcy. If you do have Obamacare you're only responsible for the yearly max OOP (Out of Pocket). The worst plans I saw were $5000 max OOP/year/person or $10,000 max OOP per family. Say you get cancer or have difficulties in the birth of a baby (which we did years ago) and the bill is $500k this year (ours was, before insurance), how could you possibly argue that Obamacare is worse than no insurance? Sure, there's a sweet spot where a $10k total yearly healthcare cost is cheaper than an ACA plan + OOP Max, but that's not a major medical emergency. $10k is a few ER visits or 2-3 days inpatient + tests, etc... $10k also isn't bankruptcy territory for the majority of people and for those who would consider it such due to their income, they're getting subsidies that would cover most they ACA plan expense lowering their max outlay for insurance + bills to the $5-7k range. I used to be a pretty hard core conservative bootstrapper. What opened my eyes was trying to get private insurance (I'm self-employed), followed by my son being diagnosed with CP, making him uninsurable through private plans. Private insurance available in this state (3 providers at the time I believe including BlueCross/BlueShield) because I had acid reflux and was about 10% overweight for my height. It was ridiculous. Without ACA people like me and my son are reliant entirely on state plans, if they exist (they don't or are utter poo poo in most states) or just have to go uninsured. FYI, the main reason for them turning me down, Acid Reflux, costs me about $22/month in OTC medication now and I haven't had a single medical bill or prescription related to it in over a decade, but I couldn't buy private insurance at any cost.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:41
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i just looked at a random rear end silver plan in my area for a family of four. the monthly premium with a $440 subsidy (i put in 55k for yearly income) costs about $340, so that puts you in for a cool 4 grand a year. 4500 deductible, 11,400 out of pocket max. the cheapest bronze plan costs 670 unsubsidized with a 14,300 yearly maximum. thats better than half a million for sure but there are a lot of people for whom a 14k medical bill will still be ruinous. http://www.salon.com/2016/01/14/myth_of_the_middle_class_most_americans_dont_even_have_1000_in_savings/ this says, what, more than half of americans have less than 1,000 in their savings accounts. a car crash, a trip to the ER, whatever other big sudden medical expense is not going to be affordable even with these plans. it's definitely better than going totally without insurance, but saying "well it could be worse, you could owe hundreds of thousands!" is going to be cold comfort to someone suddenly thousands of dollars in debt, who still has to pay for their expensive rear end insurance plan. the point is, the entire helathcare system should be nationalized
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Nov 20, 2016 11:44
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Swan Oat posted:i just looked at a random rear end silver plan in my area for a family of four. the monthly premium with a $440 subsidy (i put in 55k for yearly income) costs about $340, so that puts you in for a cool 4 grand a year. 4500 deductible, 11,400 out of pocket max. the cheapest bronze plan costs 670 unsubsidized with a 14,300 yearly maximum. thats better than half a million for sure but there are a lot of people for whom a 14k medical bill will still be ruinous. I understand that $14k medical bill can be bad for many people, but I'm saying people are claiming that no insurance at all would be better than ACA insurance in ways in which ACA would bankrupt them but no insurance wouldn't. There's no legitimate case where that is true. Most of the plans cover 80% of the expenses after the deductible up to the OOP max. Shocker, one party willfully ignoring the facts or just outright lying because they've decided X is bad because the other party is for it. I'm all for nationalized healthcare at this point as well. We're one of the very few first world nations that don't have that.
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Nov 20, 2016 11:58
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RandomBlue posted:I'm all for nationalized healthcare at this point as well. We're one of the very few first world nations that don't have that. Luckily your medical companies are using your money to lobby other nations to get rid of theirs, so you won't have to be jealous too long.
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Nov 20, 2016 12:11
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Gort posted:Luckily your medical companies are using your money to lobby other nations to get rid of theirs, so you won't have to be jealous too long. I'm sure that'll totally work out for everybody. I know the rest of the first world is jealous of our large number of uninsured, medical bankruptcies, high prescription costs due to bullshit medical patent laws and unnecessary CYA procedures.
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Nov 20, 2016 12:17
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Swan Oat posted:i just looked at a random rear end silver plan in my area for a family of four. the monthly premium with a $440 subsidy (i put in 55k for yearly income) costs about $340, so that puts you in for a cool 4 grand a year. 4500 deductible, 11,400 out of pocket max. the cheapest bronze plan costs 670 unsubsidized with a 14,300 yearly maximum. thats better than half a million for sure but there are a lot of people for whom a 14k medical bill will still be ruinous.
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Nov 20, 2016 12:21
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RandomBlue posted:I understand that $14k medical bill can be bad for many people, but I'm saying people are claiming that no insurance at all would be better than ACA insurance in ways in which ACA would bankrupt them but no insurance wouldn't. There's no legitimate case where that is true. Most of the plans cover 80% of the expenses after the deductible up to the OOP max. Shocker, one party willfully ignoring the facts or just outright lying because they've decided X is bad because the other party is for it. The mandate means you're slapped with the cost of insurance or the fee regardless right? I can imagine people where a medical emergency is crippling regardless of having insurance when you still have that much out of pocket costs. For them rolling the dice on no insurance might actually have put them better off overall. I mean if you're gonna be hosed if you're sick regardless, might as well save on premiums.
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Nov 20, 2016 12:25
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Kilroy posted:Have you considered shitcanning ACA altogether and privatizing Medicare instead? Run the numbers on that. it would suck imo, and be bad as well
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Nov 20, 2016 12:31
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RandomBlue posted:I used to be a pretty hard core conservative bootstrapper. What opened my eyes was trying to get private insurance (I'm self-employed), followed by my son being diagnosed with CP, making him uninsurable through private plans. Private insurance available in this state (3 providers at the time I believe including BlueCross/BlueShield) because I had acid reflux and was about 10% overweight for my height. It was ridiculous. Without ACA people like me and my son are reliant entirely on state plans, if they exist (they don't or are utter poo poo in most states) or just have to go uninsured. I'm sorry you had to go through that hassle. It's unfortunate that most people have to experience the flaws and drawbacks of our current medicare system to see how bad it needs to be reworked. (Pro single payer supporter here).
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Nov 20, 2016 13:21
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RandomBlue posted:Done I guess. Wow, even I want me to STFU. yiiiiiiiiiiiiiikes. RandomBlue posted:According to catholic.com, the top source on catholic facts I cared enough to read, Catholics do believe in the rapture like the rest of Christianity, they just call it something else and disagree with some groups about when/how it will happen. the page is not saying what you think it does the catholic church takes an amillenialist approach to the end of days, which means that they view the "rapture" as one and the same with the final judgment. there is no "left behind" style adventure, wherein all the true believers are carried off into the heavens and those remaining have to survive plagues and locusts, in the catholic eschatology. the rapture refers to just the literal return of christ and the judgement of all of humanity. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 13:32
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Die Sexmonster! posted:I was commenting on Catholic belief or non in the rapture, but yeah, well read and portrayed, thank you. Surely masturbating to anime must inoculate future generations against ideological obscurantism!!
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Nov 20, 2016 13:39
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QuoProQuid posted:
So you're saying that the Nicolas Cage movie Left Behind is technically incorrect?
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Nov 20, 2016 13:42
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the left behind guys are.... not catholic however, they are technically incorrect because the only correct form of christianity, is that of the roman catholic church
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Nov 20, 2016 13:47
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sumie posted:So you're saying that the Nicolas Cage movie Left Behind is technically incorrect? Holy poo poo dude, you don't even loving know: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2015/11/05/left-behind-index-the-whole-thing/
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Nov 20, 2016 13:47
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ErIog posted:Holy poo poo dude, you don't even loving know: This page seems like an useful way to spend rest of my Sunday.
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Nov 20, 2016 13:49
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sumie posted:So you're saying that the Nicolas Cage movie Left Behind is technically incorrect? in the left behind series, the pope gets raptured because its implied that he was going to renounce the faith and embrace "a new doctrine that seemed to coincide more with... Martin Luther." every other catholic character talks about "the queen of heaven" and the "mother church" like they are characters out of a 1920s political cartoon. oh, and then the catholic church tries to unify every religion on earth into one and starts taking orders from the antichrist despite knowing that he is the antichirst
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Nov 20, 2016 14:07
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RandomBlue posted:I'm sure that'll totally work out for everybody. I know the rest of the first world is jealous of our large number of uninsured, medical bankruptcies, high prescription costs due to bullshit medical patent laws and unnecessary CYA procedures. The portion of it that runs medical corporations is.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:07
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The Oldest Man posted:Think about this for a minute. Comey knew that his agents were going to leak the existence of the new emails to the press. He also had already told the republicans that the investigation was over. Can you imagine the fuckstorm if Fox started reporting that Comey had suppressed new evidence against Hillary Clinton? He made the only possible move. The existence of the emails was known for several weeks before Comey's letter. The people who knew tried to keep Comey from finding out. As soon as Comey knew, the rest of the world knew.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:28
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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/800329364986626048quote:I watched parts of @nbcsnl Saturday Night Live last night. It is a totally one-sided, biased show - nothing funny at all. Equal time for us? four years of this
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Nov 20, 2016 14:28
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Yet another example of someone with disproportionate influence who doesn't understand what the gently caress free speech is about. As though SNL has any obligation, moral or otherwise, to not be completely biased for the sake of humor. It isn't a loving news organization, it's a comedy show.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:31
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gently caress I thought Trump was going to bring jack-booted thugs turns out he's just going to  on Twitter for the next four years. I'm not sure which is worse.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:35
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socialsecurity posted:There are about a thousand better ways he could of done that. I agree, but I think he went with the letter because he thought it would cause the least disruption, not because it would do the most damage. And he was wrong.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:37
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https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyMcLellan/status/799993649782063104
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Nov 20, 2016 14:38
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QuoProQuid posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/800329364986626048 We're going to have the first literal Twitter war. A war started by Twitter
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Nov 20, 2016 14:47
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Higsian posted:The mandate means you're slapped with the cost of insurance or the fee regardless right? I can imagine people where a medical emergency is crippling regardless of having insurance when you still have that much out of pocket costs. For them rolling the dice on no insurance might actually have put them better off overall. I mean if you're gonna be hosed if you're sick regardless, might as well save on premiums. Yeah, but people with low incomes the subsidies lower the price by a large margin, I've heard $50/month for some people. There are also a lot of exemptions (due to income below required tax filing mount, religious objections, you suffered a hardship getting insurance, insurance would cost more than 10% of your income, etc..), more info: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/beware-of-the-2016-obamacare-individual-mandate-penalty-2015-10-27 You'd be hard pressed to make a case where remaining uninsured is a better choice than getting an ACA plan if that's your only option. Oklahoma might be an exception, their rates almost doubled over last year because BCBSOK lost $300 million on ACA plans and the state has no controls in place to limit cost growth. (mine does)
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Nov 20, 2016 14:55
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QuoProQuid posted:the page is not saying what you think it does That's how I interpreted it as well and both the page and I consider that to be a rapture. It just doesn't have the glory days of satan running roughshod over the earth or something.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:56
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