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This game is This poll is closed. |
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| Great! |
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180 | 32.61% |
| Awesome! |
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212 | 38.41% |
| Good! |
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160 | 28.99% |
| Total: | 552 votes | ||
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One thing developers of videogames should do is Not Listen To Fanboys/girls, Ever. Especially the ones who obsess over every single detail of something pre-release to the degree that, say, Final Fantasy fans do. It is literally impossible for any developer, regardless of pedigree or talent, to please these people without cost to the overall quality of a given videogame.Mr. Fortitude posted:Yeah even though reviewers loved IX, people really did hate it at the time and it didn't sell overly well either. It became more of a cult classic than anything over the years, possibly by people who played it at the time and hated it but are now nostalgic for it without ever replaying it because battles are a tremendous slog in that game unless you're playing the Steam version. I can't remember, but did people freak out as much about VII when that came out? Or were the naysayers who played the previous games drowned out by the praise from others who were introduced to the series with VII? There were and to this day are people who hate FF7 for not being FF6 again. They come up with pretty much any and every excuse to dislike any aspect of the game, from the characters to the setting to the story, oftentimes ignoring the flaws of the FF they like in order to do so, sometimes even projecting the flaws of their favorite FF onto it. With the passage of time FF7 has now dipped into territory where people openly rage about all the problematic parts of the game, which in a way has led to a sort of rebirth of people finding ways to poo poo on it, and by extension the entire franchise. It's a joke that "every game is the the worst game" when it comes to Final Fantasy, but FF7 is pretty unique in that it is THE game that effectively is treated as a 'bridge' between generations and overall design in Final Fantasy. To some FF7 represents the start of the series downfall, see the "What Happened To Final Fantasy?" thread for a great non-discussion about it. I don't think naysayers were necessarily drowned out by people who loved FF7. The internet was effectively nothing like it is today, and fan communities were never as massive or centralized. Most discussion about videogames back then was still handled in magazines, in person with other actual people in school or even at work. You could still find 'haters', and they still said poo poo like "PEOPLE ONLY LIKE FF7 BECAUSE ITS THE FIRST GAME THEY PLAYED" as an excuse for why FF7 was and still is ridiculously popular next to 8 and 9 and pretty much any other FF ever. Final Fantasy is really weird in the west because for a long time we effectively did not get most of the games in the series until FF7 proved there was actual viability for the whole franchise. We didn't really get to see whether or not people would react similarly to FF2 to FF3 proper. Our second actual Final Fantasy was the 4th overall, and it IS a genuine upgrade from the first game. But there are people out there who think FF6 is garbage next to FF4, because of vague and/or personal reasons related to the characters, the setting, the story, and even the gameplay. FF7 is very much a product of its time and not perfect by any means, but it is in a lot of ways the first real AAA Big Budget Big Marketing EVERYWHERE game the Playstation brand ever dealt with. It came at a time where gaming subculture was still reeling from Square's "betrayal" of Nintendo. It's a game that effectively ended the "Discs vs. Carts" debate in Sony's favor. It influenced other developers not just in terms of game design, but in terms of what platforms they wanted to support, something that persists to this day even! The game just came at a time of a lot of 'firsts', during a huge change in how videogames were perceived by the public and even discussed among fans. It's inevitable that people would find reasons to love and hate it for that alone, and no other FF will likely be was 7 was to the whole industry for the foreseeable future.
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Nov 20, 2016 21:49
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Bloodplay it again posted:Really? I thought FF9 was very well reviewed. Every FF game up to and including 13 was well reviewed. It's partially because reviewers focus on graphics/presentation, partially because FF fandom and reviewers don't mesh up, and partially because it's such a big franchise nobody wanted to give it negatives.
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Nov 20, 2016 21:49
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fivegears4reverse posted:One thing developers of videogames should do is Not Listen To Fanboys/girls, Ever. Especially the ones who obsess over every single detail of something pre-release to the degree that, say, Final Fantasy fans do. It is literally impossible for any developer, regardless of pedigree or talent, to please these people without cost to the overall quality of a given videogame. The combat, moogles, etc. were changed and/or because of fan feedback. The trick is to find a good director who listens to the right feedback that's worth pursuing.
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Nov 20, 2016 21:53
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Put me in the hotseat, I'm ready to go.
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Nov 20, 2016 21:56
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fivegears4reverse posted:One thing developers of videogames should do is Not Listen To Fanboys/girls, Ever. Especially the ones who obsess over every single detail of something pre-release to the degree that, say, Final Fantasy fans do. It is literally impossible for any developer, regardless of pedigree or talent, to please these people without cost to the overall quality of a given videogame. Yeah I've seen that thread. The complaints from the OP mostly seem to boil down to "this game is a product of the 90s and I find it offensive over how it handles certain aspects" which is fair enough and it's her perogative, but it was still hardly the downfall of Final Fantasy. The other complaints mostly seem to be "lol Japanese games are never good" and other types of low effort shitposting. ImpAtom posted:Every FF game up to and including 13 was well reviewed. It's partially because reviewers focus on graphics/presentation, partially because FF fandom and reviewers don't mesh up, and partially because it's such a big franchise nobody wanted to give it negatives. I do find it weird that the XIII trilogy seemed to be doing worse critically with each installment, even though arguably the games got better over time. XIII-2 still wasn't great and had an inverse difficulty curve and a whole host of other problems but it was still better than walking down a corridor and fighting in battles for 30 hours and Lightning Returns had a cool gimmick and fun gameplay that critics disliked and fans poo poo on because by that point Final Fantasy had become a running joke. Kind of like the Sonic series actually, where even the good games in the series are being poo poo on with revisionist nonsense like them "never being good in the first place". I wouldn't say Final Fantasy is quite on that level yet but I wouldn't be surprised if 5 years from now, you'll get similar revisionist comments from fans on how there has never been a good Final Fantasy game.
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Nov 20, 2016 22:20
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EDIT: Ah gently caress it, it doesn't matter. Do as thou wilt.
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Nov 20, 2016 22:22
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I do find it weird that the XIII trilogy seemed to be doing worse critically with each installment, even though arguably the games got better over time. This is because a lot of reviewers are extremely sensitive to responses when they 'get things wrong.' Almost any sequel to a poorly received game but well reviewed game will get a much harsher grading. It's also that FF's star faded in the years after FF13 and it became easier to give it a bad review without having screaming fanboys threatening to rip your lungs out. FFXV will probably get a much harsher grading curve than it would if it were Bravely Default: As The Noctis Flies or whatever. I honestly kind of expect it to get a lot of straight negativity regardless of its actual successes or flaws. (Though of course it depends on how earned it is.)
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Nov 20, 2016 22:24
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If Final Fantasy XVI doesn't have Brave and Default then Final Fantasy is loving dead
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Nov 20, 2016 22:28
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All the usual big review sites got a 15 hour demo and all seem to like it a lot, so I don't think it'll be harsh as you think.
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Nov 20, 2016 22:31
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I do find it weird that the XIII trilogy seemed to be doing worse critically with each installment, even though arguably the games got better over time. XIII-2 still wasn't great and had an inverse difficulty curve and a whole host of other problems but it was still better than walking down a corridor and fighting in battles for 30 hours and Lightning Returns had a cool gimmick and fun gameplay that critics disliked and fans poo poo on because by that point Final Fantasy had become a running joke. Kind of like the Sonic series actually, where even the good games in the series are being poo poo on with revisionist nonsense like them "never being good in the first place". I wouldn't say Final Fantasy is quite on that level yet but I wouldn't be surprised if 5 years from now, you'll get similar revisionist comments from fans on how there has never been a good Final Fantasy game. I think a lot of this has to do with the plot absolutely going off the rails as soon as XIII-2 started. It doesn't help that making sequels to FF games is a relatively recent phenomenon and none of the direct sequels to mainline games really surpass the originals either. They're sequels for the sake of it (well, they were made for  but that's beside the point) and it ruins the self-contained plot when an unplanned sequel is made just because the original was popular/sold well. I'd hesitate to call the series a joke on par with Sonic at this point, because none of the games have been as hilariously bad as Sonic 2006 or unable to live up the quality of earlier games. I do think that the future of the series rests with FFXV and it may end up being more important to Square than the original was.
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Nov 20, 2016 22:38
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Remember that critics are susceptible to hype too and ultimately they're entertainment/hobby critics so they get pampered by publishers and developers. They're in contact with the devs and have some insight into the process so they are usually more sympathetic to the people whose game they are reviewing than the average player. Part of why critics have become harsher with the series is that they got burnt too both on their credibility taking a hit and maybe feeling like they too bought heavily into the hype. Also, FF is no longer the juggernaut in the console RPG space it once was as both western and Japanese developers have been stepping up and producing very well-regarded RPG's not called Final Fantasy.
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Nov 20, 2016 22:43
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twitch cops are shutting down any non-judgment demo streams now. edit: People are getting early digital codes now, from best buy and stuff. That's a new one. Tae fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 23:12
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Bloodplay it again posted:Really? I thought FF9 was very well reviewed. Looks like Gamespot reviewed the Japanese copy during the summer and other, major sites reviewed it in November when the US version came out. they're talking about the stupid impressions that stupid people had, duh
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Nov 21, 2016 01:45
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I hate that "10 years in the making" poo poo, because it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how game development works. It's not a continuous process that constantly builds upon itself. It's often full of false starts and discarded ideas. In fact, I think videogames, moreso than any other medium, often require you to throw away everything you've done and restart completely from scratch. Sometimes builds just don't play like you want them to. Sometimes technology changes and you have to switch engines. Sometimes your director is a goddamn lunatic who wants to make your game a musical (or any number of fifty thousand other things depending on the day and what movies he's seen recently). The important thing isn't that the game reflects ten years of continuous development, but that it reflects any amount of good development. Cohesive ideas, gameplay that feels satisfying, disparate parts that coalesce into a whole. A game should feel good, and if it takes ten years to make it feel good, then that's time well spent. The final product is what matters.
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Nov 21, 2016 02:31
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Meanwhile http://prntscr.com/d9t8td
Alder fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 03:40
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FFXV's probably been in development for about three years or so. The prior seven may as well have been filled with games of grab-rear end to the Chicken Dance song for all the good they did.
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Nov 21, 2016 03:43
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Ffxv has been beaten. Beware spoilers. Nomura isn't credited anywhere apparently.
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Nov 21, 2016 04:02
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I am prepared to call this game garbage if the clothing options only lie along the gradient from black to white. Fashion is the most important thing and they had better not mess it up.
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Nov 21, 2016 04:23
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Terper posted:If Final Fantasy XVI doesn't have Brave Fencer Musashi then Final Fantasy is loving dead
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Nov 21, 2016 04:31
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Oxxidation posted:FFXV's probably been in development for about three years or so. The prior seven may as well have been filled with games of grab-rear end to the Chicken Dance song for all the good they did. We know from interviews and patents that the Type-0 team rebooted the project in mid 2012. Then, they prototyped for the rest of the year until they had something workable. Pre-rendered gameplay footage was used for the next two years since they didn't have anything worth showing until late 2014. Before that, we know at least 20+ staff that worked on Kingdom Hearts 2 went on to develop Versus XIII. They're not credited on the FFXIII trilogy or FFXIV. They only provided supervision for the Kingdom Hearts spin-offs and remakes. What did they do for six years? Who knows.
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Nov 21, 2016 04:49
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Sunning posted:Before that, we know at least 20+ staff that worked on Kingdom Hearts 2 went on to develop Versus XIII. They're not credited on the FFXIII trilogy or FFXIV. They only provided supervision for the Kingdom Hearts spin-offs and remakes. What did they do for six years? Who knows. They collected some sweet, sweet paychecks. "I've not seen the unreleased demo for FFXIII: Versus, and by all accounts it is terrible, but I have seen the house it built and it is magnificent" -Tetsuya Nomura, probably.
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Nov 21, 2016 04:50
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i didnt see this mentioned in the last few pages but the final boss is a QTE. and the spoilers from many months ago about the plot are true.
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Nov 21, 2016 05:57
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Spoiler that poo poo.
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Nov 21, 2016 06:02
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it's a warning to save disappointment. like telling someone xbcx ends on a cliffhanger, and will probably not get a sequel. and if you already read those spoilers, well, you've already been spoiled aintcha
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Nov 21, 2016 06:11
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Relin posted:it's a warning to save disappointment. like telling someone xbcx ends on a cliffhanger, and will probably not get a sequel. and if you already read those spoilers, well, you've already been spoiled aintcha It's just an anime video game, don't think about it too much.
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Nov 21, 2016 06:26
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Seriously spoiling stuff even to "save from disappointment" is not cool. Use the tags so if someone actually wants to know they can click it.
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Nov 21, 2016 06:46
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The qte thing is a pretty big exaggeration
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Nov 21, 2016 07:16
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Ok, we're going to get dickheads putting spoilers in the thread then claiming they're not then protracted talk about what is or isn't a spoiler. Time to logoff and not come back until I'm done.
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Nov 21, 2016 08:16
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Relin posted:it's a warning to save disappointment. like telling someone xbcx ends on a cliffhanger, and will probably not get a sequel. and if you already read those spoilers, well, you've already been spoiled aintcha Just spoil it, you know you're dying to
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Nov 21, 2016 10:04
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Calling the final boss a QTE is highly exaggerating. It does look visually stunning though and reminds me of a certain movie.
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Nov 21, 2016 10:08
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Tae posted:Just spoil it, you know you're dying to The final battle is a dance off between the four bros, each using a unique dance style bestowed by their respective crystal.
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Nov 21, 2016 10:17
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pee out my butt posted:The final battle is a dance off between the four bros, each using a unique dance style bestowed by their respective crystal. This would explain the QTE part.
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Nov 21, 2016 10:19
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Shoren posted:I think a lot of this has to do with the plot absolutely going off the rails as soon as XIII-2 started. It doesn't help that making sequels to FF games is a relatively recent phenomenon and none of the direct sequels to mainline games really surpass the originals either. They're sequels for the sake of it (well, they were made for I hate the good ending, since I feel it ruins a major theme of both games, but the normal ending is a really fitting, emotionally fulfilling end to the story of Yuna and Spira, too.
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Nov 21, 2016 10:37
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To put it into perspective, remember the one on one fight between Cloud and Sephiroth at the very end of VII? Which was automated? The QTE parts of XV's final boss is like that, shitposters are ignoring the actual boss part of the final boss.
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Nov 21, 2016 11:01
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Congratulations, you idiots just confirmed the spoiler by openly discussing it instead of letting it be dismissed as probable trolling. Thanks for that. 
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Nov 21, 2016 11:19
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What spoiler? That there's a QTE or that there is a final boss? A spoiler would be saying that Lightning-sama is the real hero and saves the world because Noctis is incompetent. Thank you Lightning-sama!
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Nov 21, 2016 11:27
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The plot and ending of the game are known quantities. If you're sensitive to spoilers don't hang around places discussing the game because people have strong opinions about it.
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Nov 21, 2016 12:19
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Hi everyone. Like any thread about a major new release that is plot-heavy, please try and tag spoilers.
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Nov 21, 2016 12:46
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I don't know if it's come up here already, but how's the linearity in the late game? It's it FFX linear with things to do besides walk, open chests, fight enemies/bosses and watch cutscenes or (gag gag retch shoots self in face) FFXIII linear?
BiggerJ fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 13:00
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It's more like the witcher than any previous final fantasy. Closest would be lightning returns except way more. The "speedrun" was about 31 hours while skipping most fights and all non story missions.
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Nov 21, 2016 13:09
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