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Darth Walrus posted:Donald Trump is about to become one of the most powerful people in the world, and he's going to try to make the world a whole lot less free just to show that he can. Uhh one of the often cited reasons I was told to vote for Trump was "more freedom" so this just can't be correct. I can't get enough of the beautiful irony of Trump supporters saying poo poo like that and voting for a literal fascist.
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Nov 21, 2016 13:52
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They want freedom (to oppress everyone else and dictate how they act). When you look at their definition of "freedom" from that angle all their bullshit comes together.
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Nov 21, 2016 13:55
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Ripoff posted:Uhh one of the often cited reasons I was told to vote for Trump was "more freedom" so this just can't be correct. Well, not all freedoms, but freedoms that alt right like, like freedom to have guns and freedom to not get your feelings hurt when someone calls you racist
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Nov 21, 2016 13:58
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Radish posted:They want freedom (to oppress everyone else and dictate how they act). When you look at their definition of "freedom" from that angle all their bullshit comes together. Specifically, they're saying "I want more freedom". Given who it is who's saying that...well, you can see where this is going. The Republicans have been oddly quiet as of the election. What are they doing? I would have expected them to be making more noise as they readjust to the presidency.
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Nov 21, 2016 13:59
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I think they interpreted that as 'freedom of white people to say/do what they want'
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Nov 21, 2016 14:05
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"Freedom" as a concept isn't universally good. We have tons of laws that crack down on freedoms like making murder illegal because we've determined that the freedom to just kill anyone you want is bad for a fucntioning society (and also directly impacts people's freedom to live). The kind of people that are loudly screaming that their "freedoms" are being infringed and voting Republican are very specifically talking about the kind of stuff that they aren't allowed to do in a civil society like harass women at abortion clinics or in extreme cases get away with literally hate crimes. They've been pretty good about having it coded for years since people inherently think of freedom as a good thing because most people only see it in context of being free to do actions that don't hurt anyone but as that nazi conference has shown they now feel normalized enough to go public with their real message. The media in general is going to try and pretend it's not happening because it really conflicts with the idea that there is nothing to worry about and all is fine and I wonder how far they will be able to stretch that.
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Nov 21, 2016 14:05
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People are too dumb to realize that everything has limits and purity is not necessarily a good thing, who knew?
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Nov 21, 2016 14:07
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Radish posted:"Freedom" as a concept isn't universally good. We have tons of laws that crack down on freedoms like making murder illegal because we've determined that the freedom to just kill anyone you want is bad for a fucntioning society (and also directly impacts people's freedom to live). The kind of people that are loudly screaming that their "freedoms" are being infringed and voting Republican are very specifically talking about the kind of stuff that they aren't allowed to do in a civil society like harass women at abortion clinics or in extreme cases get away with literally hate crimes. They've been pretty good about having it coded for years since people inherently think of freedom as a good thing because most people only see it in context of being free to do actions that don't hurt anyone but as that nazi conference has shown they now feel normalized enough to go public with their real message. The media in general is going to try and pretend it's not happening because it really conflicts with the idea that there is nothing to worry about and all is fine and I wonder how far they will be able to stretch that. quote:The so-called paradox of freedom is the argument that freedom in the sense of absence of any constraining control must lead to very great restraint, since it makes the bully free to enslave the meek. The idea is, in a slightly different form, and with very different tendency, clearly expressed in Plato. ― Karl R. Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies
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Nov 21, 2016 14:09
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Pollyanna posted:The Republicans have been oddly quiet as of the election. What are they doing? I would have expected them to be making more noise as they readjust to the presidency. My girlfriend has the theory that the GOPe is smiling and acting all thrilled while sharpening their knives and waiting for Trump to turn around. She thinks he'll be impeached and thrown out within 2 months from entering office due to the Trump U payoff of that Florida AG (and subsequently bringing her on board as his transition team) and blind-trust fuckery with his kids taking over his businesses while getting top-secret security clearance. Once they kick his rear end out, Mike Pence gets in, tells the alt-right to eat poo poo (earning the respect of some minorities and dems, at least more so than Trump gets) and he becomes Bush III: Bush Harder with tons of deregulation and other awful economic policies but with a relieved populace thinking that things could have been a lot worse. Sick thing is that God almighty, I hope she is right. I'd take lovely economic policy over facism, the annihilation of free speech and a literal loving race war.
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Nov 21, 2016 14:09
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The Trump supporters I love the authoritarian dipshit that is Putin
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Nov 21, 2016 14:13
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The GOP's quiet (I guess?) because they're busy writing all sorts of poo poo for Trump to rubber stamp in a few months. Medicare privatization, religious freedum, etc
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Nov 21, 2016 14:15
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There's no way the GOPe stands up to Trump. They are going to let him get away with any illegal action he wants since they are absolutely terrified of the base Republicans that will riot if he is impeached, specifically by members of his own party. The ONLY way they impeach him is if he talking about starting a nuclear war with someone that can strike back, is an actual stealth Democrat and starts New Deal 2.0 (UNLIKELY), or something really crazy. If he just sits there and encourages white supremacists while giving tax breaks to the rich and allows whatever crooked poo poo to keep flowing then they have no reason to oppose him. Republicans don't think more than two years into the future so who gives a poo poo if he's going to destroy the economy in the long term as long as they don't piss off their voters that only care about sticking it to everyone else?
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Nov 21, 2016 14:17
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Xand_Man posted:Even if he packs the court clamping down on freedom of the press will be a hard sell. It'll only be a hard sell if he actually outright says "we need to limit the freedom of the press, even though it's a First Amendment right." If he instead couches it in the rhetoric of "we need to be able to hold the press accountable for their dishonesty, lying like they do should be a crime," a large portion of the country, maybe 50% or more, is probably down with that, and I don't just mean people who voted Trump. As to whether Congress would be or not, hard to say, but I don't think it'd be a particularly hard sell to the population at large. Obviously plenty of people would also be appalled, but we'll see if that's enough.
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Nov 21, 2016 14:19
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Harrow posted:It'll only be a hard sell if he actually outright says "we need to limit the freedom of the press, even though it's a First Amendment right." If he instead couches it in the rhetoric of "we need to be able to hold the press accountable for their dishonesty, lying like they do should be a crime," a large portion of the country, maybe 50% or more, is probably down with that, and I don't just mean people who voted Trump. As to whether Congress would be or not, hard to say, but I don't think it'd be a particularly hard sell to the population at large. Wouldn't creating libel laws spectacularly backfire as surely that'd open Breitbart, FOX and Alex Jones for lawsuits over misinformation?
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Nov 21, 2016 14:22
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Radish posted:There's no way the GOPe stands up to Trump. They are going to let him get away with any illegal action he wants since they are absolutely terrified of the base Republicans that will riot if he is impeached, specifically by members of his own party. The ONLY way they impeach him is if he talking about starting a nuclear war with someone that can strike back, is an actual stealth Democrat and starts New Deal 2.0 (UNLIKELY), or something really crazy. If he just sits there and encourages white supremacists while giving tax breaks to the rich and allows whatever crooked poo poo to keep flowing then they have no reason to oppose him. Republicans don't think more than two years into the future so who gives a poo poo if he's going to destroy the economy in the long term as long as they don't piss off their voters that only care about sticking it to everyone else? So, you're telling me that our first order of business is to fight the alt-right and Tea Party? I'm down with that. sumie posted:Wouldn't creating libel laws spectacularly backfire as surely that'd open Breitbart, FOX and Alex Jones for lawsuits over misinformation? Those lawsuits will be thrown out, while lawsuits pertaining to media that's anything more to the left of Infowars will be upheld. Ripoff posted:My girlfriend has the theory that the GOPe is smiling and acting all thrilled while sharpening their knives and waiting for Trump to turn around. She thinks he'll be impeached and thrown out within 2 months from entering office due to the Trump U payoff of that Florida AG (and subsequently bringing her on board as his transition team) and blind-trust fuckery with his kids taking over his businesses while getting top-secret security clearance. Once they kick his rear end out, Mike Pence gets in, tells the alt-right to eat poo poo (earning the respect of some minorities and dems, at least more so than Trump gets) and he becomes Bush III: Bush Harder with tons of deregulation and other awful economic policies but with a relieved populace thinking that things could have been a lot worse. Pence is even worse than Trump. Trump getting impeached will not make things better.
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Nov 21, 2016 14:27
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Radish posted:There's no way the GOPe stands up to Trump. They are going to let him get away with any illegal action he wants since they are absolutely terrified of the base Republicans that will riot if he is impeached, specifically by members of his own party. The ONLY way they impeach him is if he talking about starting a nuclear war with someone that can strike back, is an actual stealth Democrat and starts New Deal 2.0 (UNLIKELY), or something really crazy. If he just sits there and encourages white supremacists while giving tax breaks to the rich and allows whatever crooked poo poo to keep flowing then they have no reason to oppose him. Republicans don't think more than two years into the future so who gives a poo poo if he's going to destroy the economy in the long term as long as they don't piss off their voters that only care about sticking it to everyone else? The thing about the alt-right is that they promote stupid economic policy and I can see the pressure from big-business donors and folks like Rupert loving Murdoch, Raper of Dreams getting pissed that we're starting a trade war with importing nations in order to bring coal and manufacturing jobs back to the US (aka "Jobs that don't make the 1% richer than they already are"). Once they get Fox News to start the "Is Donald Trump killing our nation's jobs?" hit pieces, 3/4 of his insane geriatric supporters will turn against him, leaving only the young white men of the alt-right to fend everyone else off. Keep in mind that about 52% of the population voted against Trump and that the right-wing is very easily manipulated by media, so his tenure at the top is as volatile as a fart outdoors. A slight change of wind and he's gone. Eventually some senator will smell the blood in the water and want to become the one who sent Trump packing. Look at how quickly everyone turned on Bush back in 2008.
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Nov 21, 2016 14:31
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Ripoff posted:The thing about the alt-right is that they promote stupid economic policy and I can see the pressure from big-business donors and folks like Rupert loving Murdoch, Raper of Dreams getting pissed that we're starting a trade war with importing nations in order to bring coal and manufacturing jobs back to the US (aka "Jobs that don't make the 1% richer than they already are"). Once they get Fox News to start the "Is Donald Trump killing our nation's jobs?" hit pieces, 3/4 of his insane geriatric supporters will turn against him, leaving only the young white men of the alt-right to fend everyone else off. Keep in mind that about 52% of the population voted against Trump and that the right-wing is very easily manipulated by media, so his tenure at the top is as volatile as a fart outdoors. A slight change of wind and he's gone. The next few years we are going to find out who the cowardly fucks in the GOP are really scared of, their rich backers or the maniacs that vote in primaries and come out every election. My money is on the maniacs. I think the way that they thread the needle is getting the media owned by those rich guys to go full war on Trump if he starts getting in the way of their bottom line but with the current news landscape I'm not sure how well that does if Breitbart and Infowars start calling Fox News a liberal organization spreading propaganda from George Soros.
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Nov 21, 2016 14:36
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Mustached Demon posted:Yeah it's like thinking Richard Sherman's ok for sharing a name with General Sherman while he makes your passing game his bitch. In the illustrious tradition of his predecessor, Richard Sherman committed a war crime to defeat Atlanta a few weeks back.
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Nov 21, 2016 14:50
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Radish posted:The next few years we are going to find out who the cowardly fucks in the GOP are really scared of, their rich backers or the maniacs that vote in primaries and come out every election. My money is on the maniacs. We will see who they ultimately bow to, yes. And you are 100% correct, my idea relies upon Fox News being the media of choice for the average idiot. If you're correct about them jumping ship to the state-sanctioned propaganda machines like Breitbart, then there's literally no hope for the US as a whole and we have a problem with a fascist people, not just a fascist government. That's a much bigger issue that will never be resolved, and the ongoing struggle will look like Sunni and Shiite relations but with nuclear weapons on hand.
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Nov 21, 2016 15:14
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It's pretty clear to me that Breitbart is becoming what Fox was during the Bush years except they have their chairman in the White House.
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Nov 21, 2016 15:19
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Radish posted:There's no way the GOPe stands up to Trump. They are going to let him get away with any illegal action he wants since they are absolutely terrified of the base Republicans that will riot if he is impeached, specifically by members of his own party. The ONLY way they impeach him is if he talking about starting a nuclear war with someone that can strike back, is an actual stealth Democrat and starts New Deal 2.0 (UNLIKELY), or something really crazy. If he just sits there and encourages white supremacists while giving tax breaks to the rich and allows whatever crooked poo poo to keep flowing then they have no reason to oppose him. Republicans don't think more than two years into the future so who gives a poo poo if he's going to destroy the economy in the long term as long as they don't piss off their voters that only care about sticking it to everyone else? Plus, they're going to keep the filibuster as a means of killing Trump's more outrageous bills. They'll vote for it to appease the base, but they won't try to poach 8-9 democrats because they know that bill is utter poo poo and will lead to them getting voted out because democrats outnumber republicans in this country. The only problem is motivating democrats to vote, and voting for interment camps is a good way to make that happen.
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Nov 21, 2016 15:25
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Ripoff posted:We will see who they ultimately bow to, yes. And you are 100% correct, my idea relies upon Fox News being the media of choice for the average idiot. If you're correct about them jumping ship to the state-sanctioned propaganda machines like Breitbart, then there's literally no hope for the US as a whole and we have a problem with a fascist people, not just a fascist government. That's a much bigger issue that will never be resolved, and the ongoing struggle will look like Sunni and Shiite relations but with nuclear weapons on hand. The other possibility is that Breitbart and Infowars people move to Fox and it goes hard right. If that happens, we are well and truly hosed.
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Nov 21, 2016 15:32
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If trump ever does a press conference people should try to get him into supporting the Fairness Doctrine. "Do you believe political show of one persuasion, there should be one that offers the opposite viewpoint?"
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Nov 21, 2016 15:34
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Radish posted:There's no way the GOP stands up to Trump. They are going to let him get away with any illegal action he wants since they are absolutely terrified of the base Republicans that will riot if he is impeached, specifically by members of his own party. Are you referring to Trump running the executive branch or the people who who appointments? Because I think Trump himself will do nearly nothing. GOP doesn't have to stand up to anything the Trump administration will do because they are ok with all that awful poo poo. Trump had a huge advantage during the campaign trail because of his fame and willingness to promise everything and anything. It was a show, and he is a showman. But actually running the government requires knowledge and willpower he doesn't have. Trump is a dumb baby that cries under the slightest pressure. I totally expect Trump to rubber stamp any terrible ideas the GOP or his people want, and to fold on anything that has the slightest resistance. And Trump will take credit for a bunch of things he didn't
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Nov 21, 2016 15:41
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Pollyanna posted:The other possibility is that Breitbart and Infowars people move to Fox and it goes hard right. If that happens, we are well and truly hosed. Yeah, at that point my plan is literally "leave the US forever and wait for the Boomers to die of old age", if we aren't all engulfed in nuclear hellfire before then. 
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Nov 21, 2016 15:50
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sumie posted:Wouldn't creating libel laws spectacularly backfire as surely that'd open Breitbart, FOX and Alex Jones for lawsuits over misinformation? Depends on the courts that those suits end up in. Though I think if someone explains to Trump what "libel laws" actually means (i.e. that there aren't any to "open up") it's possible he and his band of fuckers could take a different approach and make it a federal offense to "lie" in published media, not just something you can sue over. That's what I'm worried about, at least, but that's also the thing that I could see some Republican senators refusing to vote for, since they have more latitude to be principled than House Republicans. But a Trump/Bannon-approved DOJ with access to laws that let them arrest journalists for "lying to the public" terrifies me. One other thing to note, though, is that most autocracies don't control their media so explicitly. It's generally more subtle than that, and when journalists do get arrested, it's often for trumped-up charges so the government has plausible deniability and can claim their press is free. This, uh, doesn't apply to Turkey right now, clearly. Ripoff posted:Yeah, at that point my plan is literally "leave the US forever and wait for the Boomers to die of old age", if we aren't all engulfed in nuclear hellfire before then. I have my eye on New Zealand if it becomes clear that winning an election against Trump/Trumpists isn't going to work for one reason or another (either they successfully manipulate public opinion or they successfully manipulate the laws). Apparently they're in need of educators, and I have a background in teaching. My girlfriend's in IT and has a pretty sterling academic/employment record so I'm pretty sure she'd have no trouble getting a job. I'm also planning on going back to school to become a licensed speech-language pathologist which, on top of being something I want to do anyway whether I stay in the US or not, would give me carte blanche to move to Canada and a few other English-speaking countries. Turns out there's a huge shortage of SLPs, especially male ones (turns out that matters--old men tend to prefer to work with male SLPs, so clinics like to have them on staff). Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 15:55
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Tulsi Gabbard is apparently going to meet with Trump about a cabinet position??
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Nov 21, 2016 16:02
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I told you guys Tusi Gabbard sucks.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:04
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FlamingLiberal posted:Tulsi Gabbard is apparently going to meet with Trump about a cabinet position?? Probably to see if she can work on the Muslim roundup.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:06
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FlamingLiberal posted:Tulsi Gabbard is apparently going to meet with Trump about a cabinet position?? I love how the CNN article reporting on this includes an autoplay video in which Gabbard disapproves of Clinton's interventionist policy in Syria. As though Trump and his administration won't have boots on the ground there to "fight ISIS" at Russia's side.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:07
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I will never understand why people will call Tulsi out for being islamophobic but will say nothing about democratic politicians that permitted the genocide of muslims during the GWoT
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Nov 21, 2016 16:10
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I take it that it wouldn't be a good idea to arzy on things that are 1) yet to happen and 2) have little to no direct impact on me? We'll surely survive this right?
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Nov 21, 2016 16:21
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I will never understand why people will call Tulsi out for being islamophobic but will say nothing about democratic politicians that permitted the genocide of muslims during the GWoT
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Nov 21, 2016 16:22
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I will never understand why people will call Tulsi out for being islamophobic but will say nothing about democratic politicians that permitted the genocide of muslims during the GWoT She lost, ok, Hillary Clinton's record is irrelevant now. Let that poo poo go.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:23
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Grouchio posted:I take it that it wouldn't be a good idea to arzy on things that are 1) yet to happen and 2) have little to no direct impact on me? We'll probably "survive", yes.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:23
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Glazier posted:She lost, ok, Hillary Clinton's record is irrelevant now. Let that poo poo go. Who said anything about Clinton?
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Nov 21, 2016 16:24
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Grouchio posted:I take it that it wouldn't be a good idea to arzy on things that are 1) yet to happen and 2) have little to no direct impact on me? Probably yeah. Doesn't mean you can't be pissed as gently caress and go join up with your local Democratic party office.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:25
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Harrow posted:I have my eye on New Zealand if it becomes clear that winning an election against Trump/Trumpists isn't going to work for one reason or another (either they successfully manipulate public opinion or they successfully manipulate the laws). Apparently they're in need of educators, and I have a background in teaching. My girlfriend's in IT and has a pretty sterling academic/employment record so I'm pretty sure she'd have no trouble getting a job. My girlfriends family has property in whistler so I'm set. Also going back to grad school to be a PA. I'm going to make myself useful in the post apocalyptic wasteland.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:30
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Mustached Demon posted:Probably yeah. Doesn't mean you can't be pissed as gently caress and go join up with your local Democratic party office.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:30
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Ripoff posted:My girlfriend has the theory that the GOPe is smiling and acting all thrilled while sharpening their knives and waiting for Trump to turn around. She thinks he'll be impeached and thrown out within 2 months from entering office due to the Trump U payoff of that Florida AG (and subsequently bringing her on board as his transition team) and blind-trust fuckery with his kids taking over his businesses while getting top-secret security clearance. Once they kick his rear end out, Mike Pence gets in, tells the alt-right to eat poo poo (earning the respect of some minorities and dems, at least more so than Trump gets) and he becomes Bush III: Bush Harder with tons of deregulation and other awful economic policies but with a relieved populace thinking that things could have been a lot worse. Not to be too snarky but this is a fantasy that rests on the assumption that elected Republicans have even a broken moral compass. They have nothing of the sort and they will gleefully squeal if Trump goes full fascist because they will be the main beneficiaries.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:32
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