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I'm assuming that the grammar of the translation falling apart was an intentional choice to mirror Beatrice essentially losing her poo poo there, as opposed to actual botched proofing/editing? That said: You go, Shannon, you did one thing Battler hasn't managed yet to do, and that is to make Beatrice flip right the gently caress out. Something touched a nerve and I think we all have a pretty decent suspicion of what - and why a non-magic Beatrice would want to completely slaughter everyone and everything attached to Kinzo Ushiromiya. oath2order posted:Also, if you don't normally listen to the music you REALLY REALLY should click on WorldEndDominator, which is in the running for the best music track of the Question Arc. Both WorldEndDominator and moon are a sign of the musical quality of the game going up drastically, yeah.
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Nov 18, 2016 22:38
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KataraniSword posted:I'm assuming that the grammar of the translation falling apart was an intentional choice to mirror Beatrice essentially losing her poo poo there, as opposed to actual botched proofing/editing? Yeah, even in Japanese that rant is basically one long run-on sentence.
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Nov 18, 2016 22:39
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Man, I don't know. I don't think there's a 19th person, at least not in this cycle. Beatrice's nuclear meltdown and the similarity of her appearance to Rosa's really just makes me think rosa is the main culprit for this scenario. She has two solid enough motivations to kill her siblings. Revenge and money. Jessica and George also represent unacceptable barriers to Maria becoming the heir. The servants can be explained as collateral damage. They knew too much and raised the risk level too high. Now all that remains, really, is Battler. I suppose this is too much why and not enough how, but those are the factors which make me believe that Rosa is the so called witch. She is also the person we see behave with the most outward violence. She is relatively young and appears physically healthy, so some feats of strength aren't out of her reach, unlike Kumasawa... And that last scene with Natsuhis room being broken into by the witch... Rosa has a firearm. If she can't kick the door down because of gohdas superior strength, she can shoot him through it. Then she can kill Shannon and George. So what, then, are Battler and Maria doing during my hypothetical version? POOL IS CLOSED fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 08:15
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:... Rosa has a firearm. If she can't kick the door down because of gohdas superior strength, she can shoot him through it. Then she can kill Shannon and George. Well, George is probably busy being dead.
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Nov 19, 2016 10:08
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NachtSieger posted:Well, George is probably busy being dead. Right, that should've been Battler!
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Nov 19, 2016 15:43
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Man, I don't know. I don't think there's a 19th person, at least not in this cycle. Beatrice's nuclear meltdown and the similarity of her appearance to Rosa's really just makes me think rosa is the main culprit for this scenario. Don't forget that last we knew, Rosa was barricaded in the room with Battler and Maria. You need to figure out how and when she snuck out with this theory.
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Nov 19, 2016 16:40
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whitehelm posted:Don't forget that last we knew, Rosa was barricaded in the room with Battler and Maria. You need to figure out how and when she snuck out with this theory. Unless she didn't sneak.
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Nov 19, 2016 17:04
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Another thing worth pointing out is that Beatrice appeared in her schoolgirl outfit in the chapel, but when they encounter her again in Natsuhi's room, she's in her regular gown. I don't know what that's supposed to signify, but it stands out because there's no obvious reason for it. Come to think of it, the first time anyone sees Beatrice during the family gathering (Kyrie, right?), she's wearing the schoolgirl outfit. And I think Battler was present when Kyrie mentioned meeting Beatrice, so maybe by some contrived logic *that* Beatrice is real, and ballgown Beatrice is not?
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Nov 19, 2016 22:24
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SardonicTyrant posted:Another thing worth pointing out is that Beatrice appeared in her schoolgirl outfit in the chapel, but when they encounter her again in Natsuhi's room, she's in her regular gown. I don't know what that's supposed to signify, but it stands out because there's no obvious reason for it. Not to detract you from making a point, but if you didn't watch the video she just magically changed clothes in the middle of it. Can't a girl pick an outfit to match the occasion? 
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Nov 19, 2016 23:59
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tiistai posted:Not to detract you from making a point, but if you didn't watch the video she just magically changed clothes in the middle of it. Can't a girl pick an outfit to match the occasion? Well, it doesn't change the point - she wouldn't've changed without there being some reason, be it symbolic or what.
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Nov 20, 2016 00:23
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tiistai posted:Not to detract you from making a point, but if you didn't watch the video she just magically changed clothes in the middle of it. Can't a girl pick an outfit to match the occasion? 
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Nov 20, 2016 00:55
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I'll have you know that anime, love, and witches are all real. Beato just didn't like Georges face which is why she got so pissed.
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Nov 21, 2016 00:06
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Hey hey hey. I think we've all forgotten about one person who would rant on and on about love. One man who probably had access to specific keys, and not master ones at a glance. Someone the servants would let in and be confused about later. Some one who Genji would serve in knocking down the door to George, Shannon, and Ghoda's room. Maybe Kinzo is responsible for all of this? He hasn't had any alibi since the start of the murders. Though, Shannon and Genji would have visited him at some point during Kannon and Jessica's murder? Kumasawa was probably an accomplice, a loose end tied later along with the good doctor who would surely squeal rationally. Wolves, wolves, they're all wolves. It's no goddamn use.
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Nov 21, 2016 02:01
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 October 5th, 1986, 9:00 PM  He ate some reheated soup that Gohda had made, along with some random leftovers from the refrigerator. They were all things Gohda had made himself, and were, of course, delicious. He had half-heartedly gone to ask Rosa and the others what they would do for dinner, but he had been yelled at by a voice telling him that they had canned food so they were fine, and the door wasn't even opened for him. So ironically, the servant Genji was able to eat a more delicious meal... But why was it that Genji wasn't afraid to do the rounds all by himself, even though all of those crimes had been committed, and many people had already met a brutal end? Judging by his appearance as he carried out his normal tasks without a trace of fear, as though everything was normal, you might think that all of the horrible events that had happened today were just a dream or an illusion. Was he taking a philosophic view, or was it simply resignation?  It would probably be impossible to perceive the depths of his heart for all eternity, unless he told of it himself... Because he had given the master key back to Rosa, the places he could go to were extremely limited. All he could do was walk around the hallways, checking to make sure that the windows were closed. So he was probably able to go around that route far more quickly than usual.    "Who is it?!"I was napping in a sofa, and that voice also brought me back to reality.  "...Rosa-sama. It is Genji." "Do you have some business? We'll be fine without opening the door. Tell us from there." BGM: At Death's Door  "Wh, what did you say...?!!" "...I see. Understood, let's go and check them. Until I see the corpses, I won't believe anybody." "..." "...Uu-. It's alright, Battler. If Maria's there, it'll definitely be alright."Maybe my face was shadowed with anxiety. Maria grasped my hand with her small hand, and spoke softly, trying to give me courage. Since it was Aunt Rosa's job to ready the gun and stand guard, it fell to me to remove the barricade of sofas. When I finished, I took a backward glance at Aunt Rosa, who was pointing the barrel of the gun over my shoulder, and opened the door.   "...In the courtyard. I shall guide you." "Battler-kun, wait! Just in case, let's check the doors and windows of this room. Wait a second."Aunt Rosa called me to a halt to prevent me from going on ahead, and began to carefully check the locks on each of the windows. But those locks had already been checked once. It felt kind of unpleasant, as though she suspected that I might have secretly unlocked them when she wasn't looking. No, maybe Aunt Rosa was right for being this cautious... Even though it was called a courtyard, it wasn't really a pretty place you could take a walk in like the rose garden. On the contrary, since it was surrounded by the mansion on all sides, it made you feel a little discomfort, as though it was telling you that even if you tried to escape to the outside, you couldn't escape from the mansion. On the other hand, thanks to that, even though the violent winds could be heard, the wind itself was blocked. Genji-san held out an umbrella, but Aunt Rosa ignored him. She probably wanted to say that the gun took two hands, and it would be dangerous if she took the umbrella. Even without Genji-san pointing his finger, we understood immediately.  Aunt Rosa entered the courtyard without even opening an umbrella. So Genji and I also entered the courtyard without opening an umbrella. Only Maria opened her umbrella.  "...Maria... Is this... you know?" "...Uu-. It's the seventh twilight and the eighth twilight." "I... I see. Certainly, just as Genji-san and the others said, there are horrible wounds on their necks. Very sharp. Almost as though they've been sliced with a katana or something..."That gaping wound on their necks definitely made me want to avert my eyes, but after seeing the Halloween party in the chapel, even though I thought it was horrible, it was no longer enough to make me feel sick. More importantly, my gaze fell to their legs. On Doctor Nanjo's knee. On Kumasawa-san's ankle.  ...They must have been the same as the one that had pierced Jessica's back. "...What is this? It's the same as Jessica-chan. Is this supposed to be some kind of occult ceremony, I wonder?" "...I do not know. The last time I saw their bodies, there was nothing like this. Maybe it was done after they were carried out of the servants' room."The one that had been stuck into Doctor Nanjo's knee was still standing erect, but the one that had been thrust into Kumasawa-san's ankle might have been a little shallower. It had come out and fallen over. So, by looking that one that had fallen over, for the first time, I realized that it wasn't a knife, but something like a stake. Its full length was probably about 30 centimeters. It was probably made out of bronze or iron or something of the sort. Even without touching it, I noticed that it had some weight to it. It was composed of a grip and a cone-shaped part, and it was obviously made to be a piercing weapon. Maybe it seemed like a miniature version of those lances western knights used on horseback. The ditch that had been inscribed in a spiral shape made it also look like a drill. However, the grip had an occult-like design of a demon or something, so instead of a weapon used in war, it felt like something that would be used in a ceremony to offer up a sacrifice.   "...At the seventh twilight, gouge the knee and kill. At the eighth twilight, gouge the leg and kill." "Wait. Then, they've left out the fourth, fifth, and sixth twilights. C, could it be..." BGM: Mind If something like this had happened, why wouldn't George-aniki, Gohda-san, or Shannon-chan be here?! Why was Genji-san alone?!  "What is this? Where did George-kun and the other two go?!" "...I was told that they wanted to go to Madam Natsuhi's room to search for something, so they left. They have not returned yet." "What did you say...? Umm, you say they left, when was that?!" "Two or three hours ago, I believe." "N, no way...!! Why didn't something that important, wait, no, why didn't you think that was suspicious?!" "...There must always be one servant awaiting orders. It was my duty to wait for orders until they returned."Was Genji-san really this much of a robot?! This is bad, this is bad, it's really bad...!!  We ran towards Aunt Natsuhi's room. With a touch of anxiety, and just as much resignation. Before we even saw the inside of Aunt Natsuhi's room, we were imprisoned by a certain resignation.  BGM: Dead Angle Anyways, this wasn't a normal situation, and without opening the door, we were able to imagine what was inside that room. On the face of the door... how should I say it? Hands had been heavily painted with the same red paint that the magic circles from before had been drawn with, and had banged on the door, scratched it, dirtied it. It was dirtied like the aftermath of a kindergartner playing in the mud. I didn't know what it could mean. The bright-red paint that had been slathered on was dripping down, and even though no one said it, it made us think of blood. "...G, Genji-san, please open it."Aunt Rosa held her gun up high and ordered Genji-san to open it. Genji-san approached the door without being particularly troubled by that stuff on it, and turned the knob, but immediately turned around, shaking his head. It was locked.  This time, Genji-san asked Aunt Rosa to unlock the door, instead of the other way around. After making a slightly unhappy face, Aunt Rosa handed me a master key, and told me to open the door. "...Battler-kun, would you open it for me with this?" "Just trusting Genji-san with something like that wouldn't..."Aunt Rosa glared at me with an intense gaze. Getting into a fight here would only make the environment turn even more sour. Without talking back any more, I approached that creepy door, and tried the knob. It didn't open. It was definitely the resistance of the lock. I stuck the master key into the keyhole. Clunk. There was a light resistance. While listening to Aunt Rosa as she told me to take care, I opened the door without taking any particular care.  "...! H, horrible..." "..." "As I thought, it was a reproduction of the fourth, fifth, and sixth twilights." "...Uu-."The inside of the room looked as though a robber had just broken in. Drawers were flung open, pulled out, with their contents thrown about, devastated so that it looked nothing like the room of the methodical Aunt Natsuhi. But the thing that caught the eye before that was Gohda-san's corpse lying facedown right in front of the door...  ...Exactly how far could it have reached after being stuck that deeply into his chest? Just imagining it would cause anyone's chest to hurt.  "...Was gouging the chest, the fifth twilight?" "...Uu-."Maria grabbed my hand. Her expression looked just like normal, but maybe she really was afraid of the aura in this room where three corpses lay.  ...This time, one of those stakes had been rammed right in the center of his stomach. Was gouging the stomach, the sixth twilight?  Had she seen her own face in the end, in that horribly broken mirror stained with blood? Because she was face down, I couldn't see her face, but I could imagine even without seeing it. Nearby, in the sea of blood she lay in, a demon's stake had fallen... Only the fourth twilight was left. Gouge the head and kill... Maybe my heart was completely tired out and dead... Even though I knew what I was doing was wrong, I lifted her head, and checked. And, I made sure that my guess was right on the mark. There was a gaping hole in Shannon-chan's head, and her insides were dripping out. Not only that, you could even see... inside her. After seeing that, I finally noticed that what I was doing was wrong. I immediately averted my eyes, but by now, it was probably pointless.  Aunt Rosa got violently mad at me, and even tugged at the back of my collar. I tottered limply and fell on my butt, and gazed dimly up at the ceiling... "...Maria." "Uu-...?" "...After this, even the eighth twilight is over. What was the ninth twilight again?" "I see. After this, the Golden Witch Beatrice will be revived. What then? On the final tenth night?" "...At the tenth twilight, the journey shall end, and you should reach the Golden Land. Very soon, the door to the Golden Land will be opened. Very soon." "...The witch shall be revived and none shall be left alive, you say. We're going to die? Or is the ceremony of sacrifices over now, our journey shall end, and we should reach the Golden Land...?" "..." "...What is our journey? We've spent the whole day trying to find the culprit, spinning our heads as we tried to break out of this situation, and we haven't gotten anywhere. It's like they say, thinking stupid is no better than sleeping." That's right... if nothing could be solved, it would have been much better if we had locked ourselves up the whole time without thinking at all. Grandfather was the wisest of us. He'd been shut up in his room since yesterday, without any contact with anyone. That would have been fine. Grandfather was the most correct...  "...It's alright, Battler. If you're with Maria, it's alright. The witch is very fickle, and she's a terrifying being who maybe kills humans for fun sometimes." "...However, if you're together with Maria, it's alright. So, don't be afraid." "...Thank you. It's soothing, and I'm happy."After Aunt Rosa finished investigating their deaths, she proclaimed that she would seal this room again, chased the rest of us out, stole back the master key she had lent me, and locked the door again. It seemed that George-aniki had been holding the original key to Aunt Natsuhi's room. She had also collected that. ...Wait a second. She had all of the master keys in her hand.  Is this the fourth closed room...? Now that we had been released from our suspicion of those three, we once again returned to the parlor. I don't have a clue what's going on anymore. If only the dead were safe, and everyone alive was a wolf... all that was left was me, Aunt Rosa, Maria, and Genji-san. Only those, Grandfather, and that 19th person, the guest who we hadn't even sensed, Beatrice. 13 people had died, and six were left. With only six people, how would the wolves and sheep puzzle end...? Even though the puzzle which had had 19 people in it had been reduced to six people, I couldn't find any answer...  BGM: None ..I felt a little anxious that, while we were gone, a creepy magic circle or something might have been drawn on the door to the parlor, but thankfully, there was none... "Thank you, Genji-san. This is far enough. Please rest for the day." "...Certainly. Then, if you will allow me to rest." "H, hey, Aunt Rosa... are you saying that you'll leave Genji-san all alone in a situation like this...?" "...That's right. I think it's very dangerous. But, in that case, why is he safe? After those three headed to Natsuhi nee-san's room, he was alone the whole time. And yet he's safe." "...It's the wolves and sheep puzzle. Why would an isolated sheep be safe in its weakest position?" "...P, probably because, by coincidence, there weren't any wolves..." "Wrong. Because it wasn't a sheep." "Are you saying Genji-san's... a wolf...?" "W, wait, with that argument, anyone-" "...Battler-sama. Thank you for your concern." "...I believe that trust will be won not with a hundred excuses, but with simple faithfulness. Even if I am not able to gain your trust, I wish to be faithful until the end." "...Genji-san..." "...Then, we're decided. If you are truly innocent, the police will prove that for us when they come tomorrow. So, until then, we cannot remove you from suspicion." "...After your long years of service, I find it truly painful to treat you so poorly. But please understand about tonight. Then, when tomorrow comes, please let us make up again."Genji-san gave his head a small shake. "...Today and tomorrow, I will continue to be a servant of the Ushiromiya family. If you have any business, please say so at any time. Then, if you will excuse me."After hearing all that, there was nothing left to say. Genji-san bowed deeply, and left down the hall... And we entered the room.  She opened the curtains, and checked again to make sure the windows were locked. As I watched... how should I say it, I felt like it didn't really matter anymore. If I said anything unnecessary, it would turn into another fight. For a while, I gazed at her from the corridor, figured I had waited just about long enough, and entered the parlor behind her. If she couldn't trust anyone but the dead, she could just go around killing everyone with the gun she held in her hand. And then in the end, she'd realize that she herself was the wolf. And then in the end, she could blast through the head of the final wolf, and the curtain would close on this insane murder theater... As I thought that bitterly, I returned to the sofa where I had been encamped before, and rudely rested both of my feet on the table... When I tried to do that, I found something there and stopped moving my feet. "...What is, this...?" BGM: Closed my Heart It was that envelope from before, with the seal of the One-winged Eagle. And it was unopened. W... wait wait wait wait... What is, this...? When, who, put it in a place like this...? I had been sitting here the whole time, until I had gone with everyone to check the corpses. And there hadn't been anything. And when I returned, it was, here. "...It's alright. There was no problem with the locks on the windows. This room is safe."I heard Rosa muttering that... Wait wait wait wait. Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. We had made sure this room was safe when we exited it. We had checked that the windows were all perfectly locked. And we had locked it, come back, and the windows were still locked. Then, wait, who had put this letter here and how... I opened the letter. Two pieces of stationary came out.  If I asked Maria, she'd probably know what it meant. And there was writing on the other page.  ...There was no mistake. It was a letter... from Beatrice... "...Uu-? Battler, what is that?" "Ah... aaah, when we came here just now... i, it had been set here." "What happened, Maria? Huh?! Battler-kun, that letter?!" "W, wait, err! It was set here. Why?! Even though we properly checked to make sure this room was closed!! Why?! Why!!" "...Maria, come here."Aunt Rosa closed her eyes just a little, and after silently thinking something, told Maria to come. Maria obeyed her mother's words. As she did, something unbelievable happened. Aunt Rosa pointed the barrel of that gun at me...  BGM: Nighteyes "W, ...why?!?!" "When I came into the room just now, I saw that there was nothing at all on the table. And I know that Maria did not approach that table. It was for a short time. But the only one who claims to have approached the table and found the letter, is you." "How can you... wait, th, that's all screwed up!! Why would I put something like this here?! Wait wait, I just found something suspicious and reported it, right?! Why are you suspecting me?!" "Because only you could set that letter there!! That's right, this is all a charade!! You pulled an envelope from your pocket, and then acted as though you had just found it. To create the illusion that the witch entered a closed room, set down a letter, and left!!" "...Dumbass... a, are you thinking like that again...? Are you going to doubt me... because of something like that?! Cut it out!! My dad and everyone else were killed!! Why would I take part in the culprit's scheme?!!" "That's right. Even if you could have received a large amount of money, I don't want to believe that a demon who would sell their own parents exists."  "...Wh... whaaa?!?! Think about what you're saying!! Dad is Dad, right?! Of course, I'm not related to Kyrie-san by blood, but she's like a big sister to me!! You can't ignore at least that much, you bastard!!" "Uu-uu-uu-!! Sto-p i-t!! Uu-uu-uu-!!" "Stop saying uu-uu-!! ...I'm sorry, that was a bad way to say it. Of course, Ushiromiya Battler-kun might be Rudolf nii-san's child!" "...But, are you really Battler-kun, Rudolf nii-san's child?!" "What the hell are you talking about?!! If I'm not Battler, then who else do I look like?!" "Including Rudolf nii-san, we've been reunited with you after six years. No one can prove that you really are Ushiromiya Battler, right?!" "Cut it out, drat it!! I am me! Ushiromiya Battler!! If we're going to doubt even that much, are you really Ushiromiya Rosa?! I'm myself, no one else!! Yeah, that's right, it's just as you say, the only one you can trust other than corpses is yourself!!!" "If you're going to say that much, let me make an objection!" "My reasoning goes like this. You're in contact with the real culprit, and while I wasn't looking, you lent them one of the five master keys!!" "I didn't do something like that!! See, there are five of them here, right?!" "As if that matters!! You could have had them set it in a pre-arranged spot, and collected it, right?!! And weren't you the one who said it was suspicious whether there were really five master keys?!" "So how are you saying that someone other than yourself set that letter there?!! As long as you can't prove that, you are a wolf!!" "Shut uuuuuup!! Then why don't you show me some proof, how do you say the culprit killed George-aniki and the rest in that closed room?! How did they lock it?!!"  "There is no fraud or trick, there is no means of secret passage and no hidden place! Natsuhi's own key was in George's pocket, and the inside of the room was closed off. Only the five master keys were left, and Rosa was holding all of them! And let me say this, the parlor's the same. The original key to the parlor is sealed in the servants' room. So unlocking it without the master key is impossible! The definition of a closed room is the same as always!" "Come on, now there's only one suspeeeeect, or are you still playing innocent, Ushiromiya Battleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer?!" "Shut uuuuuuup!! You keep silent as welllllll!!!"  "If I can be suspected, then you can be suspected, you try showing me some proof, wasn't the first person to enter the room and begin checking the windows you, Aunt Rosa?!" "Then you anticipated that I would return to the place I had been sitting, and secretly placed the letter. I can also suspect that this is your trap, right?!" "Why would I use a trap like that?!! If I was a wolf, I'd shoot you with this gun without question!!" "That's no reason!! Maybe, because you couldn't commit murder in front of Maria, you chose the roundabout way of setting a clever trap!! All of the master keys are in your hands! So this place and the room just a while ago, are all your doing, aren't they?!! If you can talk your way out of this, then let me hear your excuse!!" "That's right, you've been suspicious from the start, Aunt Rosa! Why is it that even though six adults in the family conference were killed, only you were the exception, Aunt Rosa? Why were you the only one not in that chapel?!" "There can only be one reason, you invited Dad and the rest there and killed them!! drat it, drat it, that explains everything, doesn't it, don't gently caress with me don't gently caress with me, stop saying things that don't make seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeense!!" BGM: None  "Mama too, Battler too, stop iiiiiiiiiiit, stop iiiiiiiiiiiiit!!! It's no one's fault! It's not Battler's or Mama's fault!! The witch did all of this! It was done with magic!! It's no one's faaaaaaaaaault!! Uu-uuuu---!!"Maria thrust herself in between Aunt Rosa and me as the blood started rising to our heads. I was taken aback by Maria's crying voice and returned to my senses. ...I had acted shamefully just now. My eyes filled with tears.  BGM: Fortitude  "Even though it's the work of the witch, we weren't even able to trust each other as humans...!! Right, Aunt Rosa, from the beginning, there wasn't a human culprit, it was all the work of the witch." "So there's no way you're the culprit, and there's no way Maria, Genji-san or I am the cuplriiiiit!! Why has it come to this?!! Why am I screaming with Aunt Rosa... who I loved?! Why am I having this fight... with the kind aunt who I loved?! Why, why does everyone have to suspect each other?!?! I'm not going to doubt my aunt, I'm not going to doubt anyone, it's all the work of the witch, it's all the work of Beatrice, it's all, all a crime that Beatrice committed with magic!!" "Beatriiiiiiiice, please, show yourself here, and confess to us that you did everything, I'm sorry already, I'm sorry for doubting each other like this!!" "So forgive us, release us, release us from this hell of suspecting each other until we see each other's deaths!! Give me my kind relatives and cousins back!! I hate it, I hate it, I hate it all!! You definitely exist, it's your victory!!" BGM: None  Apparently, some time ago, Kinzo had fallen into a doze. He searched for his spectacles, and looked at the clock. It was 10:00 P.M.  "...Her ceremony, let's see, how far has it progressed? It must have progressed quite far by this time."Kinzo lifted his heavy body from the chair, and approached the portrait of the witch that he had gazed at every day.  BGM: Sukashiyuri  "So, in the afterliiiife, let me... meet with you one more tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime... Then, let me swear my love to you, let me apologize for my crimes, uuuoooooooooooo..." "...But I won't let you escape!! You are mine!! From your hair to your toenails, to the dirt under your toenails, you are mine!! Every fragment of your flesh is mine, even the broth of your corpse is mine!! I won't let you escape, this time you won't slip from my hands!! I'll make you mine for all eternity!!! I will never let you escape a second time, I will never let you escape a second time!!"Kinzo howled in rage, then suddenly fell to his knees, as he shook and scraped at the wall... In an instant, he had started sobbing.  "...Whaaaa, hic... that's wrong, I didn't want to say something like thiiiiis, Beatriiiiiiiiice... Please, let me meet you one more time... Even if you only let me apologize... Whaaaaaaa, Beatriiiiiiiiiice, hic, hic...! Uwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauaauauau...!!" "You are beloved, yearned for...! I was mistaken...! If you would just smile, I wouldn't need anything else... I made a mistake, I made a mistake about that, I did something that cannot be taken back...!" "In atonement, I offer all that remains of my life...!! In order to apologize to you, in order to atone for my crimes, I offered... everything... Please, even if it is as I die..." ...As Kinzo shook and cried, behind his small back, a butterfly appeared out of nowhere, like flake of gold leaf, and softly fell down...  BGM: Steady Pace Well, even if it wouldn't make a human woman fall for you... it might for a woman who is not human. Kinzo. Do you remember...? That musical piece of chess you played with me, which was still ongoing...? Kinzo, as though he had suddenly remembered something, approached the chess set. It was as it had been during the game he had played with Nanjo until yesterday. After removing the chessboard to mow off all the pieces, he began to line the pieces up one by one. It was the setup for an ongoing game.  Kinzo waited, with the opposite seat empty. Surely, very soon, his opponent would appear there, and he would be able to restart this game again... ...You fool, Kinzo. You want to apologize? You want to see my face again? You want to make my smile an eternal thing? Why can't you say a much, much simpler word? Even though that is the sole element of the world... At that time, Kinzo muttered. A prayer? An entreaty? It was probably best to just call it muttering.  They were pure words, like something an innocent child would say, without any evil intent... You really are a fool, Kinzo. If you ever have the chance to do your life over again... Know that those words could never cause a woman to fall for you. That's right... unless there's a miracle. So this is... At that time. Kinzo definitely heard a small knock, with a different tempo than those of the servants... "...Who are you?"The woman beyond the door... didn't answer. "...I'm asking who you are!! Will you not answer?!!"The woman beyond the door... didn't answer. "Could it be... oooooh... could it be... B... Beatrice?"   
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Nov 21, 2016 15:46
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The profiles page has been updated.
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Nov 21, 2016 15:51
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The final letter is a nice move, because both Battler and Rosa have alibies with each-other regarding all the servants + George's deaths. So if we take it at face value and assume there's only 18 people and nothing supernatural going on, either one could have placed the letter, but they also couldn't have done the killings themselves, thus more than one person must be in on it. If you look at it from the perspective of a game like Werewolf, an end-game with a low number of pieces and no villains discovered means you're in a terrible position for winning...but for information-gathering, it's simply ideal, as the number of possibilities narrow drastically. Obviously in such a game, that isn't very useful at all. But in a chain of games like Beatrice has set up here, it's essential to pay more and more attention to details and trying to solve things as it gets closer to completion. Then again, that assumes this story is playing by the rules!
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Nov 21, 2016 16:25
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There are also two other servants on the island, right? Munon and Runon, I think? We've only been introduced sort of to one, who's a slacker.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:31
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:There are also two other servants on the island, right? Munon and Runon, I think? We've only been introduced sort of to one, who's a slacker. They're two other servants who work for the Ushiryomias but weren't given a shift on the island for the conference. So other then a background reference they're not important.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:40
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Dr Pepper posted:They're two other servants who work for the Ushiryomias but weren't given a shift on the island for the conference. So other then a background reference they're not important. That's possible and likely, but at the same time, fairly tight narratives don't usually dispense mostly useless information, either. What I'm saying is they're totally children of the corn!
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Nov 21, 2016 16:52
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Count me in as another person who loves the Dead Angle song. It's fantastic. Once more, I suspect Maria of being the one to place the letter there. Natsuhi did a good job last episode of kicking Maria (plus others) out for that poo poo, but Rosa would never admit that Maria could be possible of cooperating with the culprit. As for the paint that was on the door that lead to George and Shannon's murder scenes, I imagine that to be from Kumasawa and Nanjo's desperate attempt to escape from being murdered. They are collaborators as well, and were trying to paint a seal on the door until the murderer decided to kill them too. It's interesting how they show off Shannon's body in a CG but not George's, so who knows what's up with that. Lastly, RIP Gohda. He kinda became a good person towards the end.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:37
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:That's possible and likely, but at the same time, fairly tight narratives don't usually dispense mostly useless information, either. In that case, I propose that all of Jessica's classmates snuck onto the island to kill her and her family for beating them up with brass knuckles .
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Nov 21, 2016 19:29
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EagerSleeper posted:Once more, I suspect Maria of being the one to place the letter there. Natsuhi did a good job last episode of kicking Maria (plus others) out for that poo poo, but Rosa would never admit that Maria could be possible of cooperating with the culprit. We'd have to have another scene with Nanjo and Kumasawa, showing how they survived having their throat slit open, for them to be suspects. They were as dead as disco when the last scene played, so unless your theory is that Beato pulled the corpse manipulation trick again, you'll have to unpack that. I also don't really buy Maria as placing the letter, since Rosa already laid out why that was impossible: Rosa was the last one to leave the room after a once over, and Maria was with her when the letter was discovered. Besides, we had an honest to god real reaction from Maria when Rosa and Battler started fighting; it seemed to distress her as nothing else has since the rose thing from last episode, because the riddle is a game to her at the end of which everyone gets up and gets a reward in the Golden Land. If she were really placing the letters, wouldn't the Witch be ihihi-ing during the scene instead of crying? But if we rule out all of the people in the room, that only leaves Granpa and Genji- neither of whom could have done the letter- and the 19th guest, who could only have done it if there's something about things we don't know about. So if these things are true and everyone's playing by the rules... maybe there is something to Rosa being the culprit.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:30
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Mercury Hat posted:In that case, I propose that all of Jessica's classmates snuck onto the island to kill her and her family for beating them up with brass knuckles It's about as likely as witches! Also, seriously... brass knuckles. 
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Nov 21, 2016 19:44
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resurgam40 posted:We'd have to have another scene with Nanjo and Kumasawa, showing how they survived having their throat slit open, for them to be suspects. They were as dead as disco when the last scene played, so unless your theory is that Beato pulled the corpse manipulation trick again, you'll have to unpack that. My explanation for how Kumasawa and Nanjo are still collaborators despite seemingly having their throat slit is the same explanation I'll use for Kanon having a lightsaber: unreliable narrator. Beatrice is telling Meta-Battler that magical stuff happened, but Meta-Battler is trying to prove that magic doesn't exist. The game didn't have Piece-Battler inspect Kumasawa and Nanjo's bodies to see if he could legit see gore, so for all we know, what could have actually happened is that they pulled out a ketchup packet across their throat and said "oh no, we are dead blegh", and flopped to the floor (all the while Gohda is crying). Maria's reaction to Battler and Rosa fighting after she deliberately placed the letter still stands, because all she wants is everyone to get along, stop hurting each other, and accept that magic exists. In her mind, Beatrice is not a bad guy, and that everything will be fine in the golden land where her mother is a nice person and where she won't be abused. She sincerely believes in that dream.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:38
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At any rate, if nothing else this should prove Rosa didn't kill Shannon, George and Gohda by herself since she was with Battler the whole time since they were last seen. No way she could have snuck out,POOL IS CLOSED posted:Unless she didn't sneak. In which case Battler is at least an accomplice and an unreliable narrator. It's not impossible!
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Nov 21, 2016 23:16
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tiistai posted:At any rate, if nothing else this should prove Rosa didn't kill Shannon, George and Gohda by herself since she was with Battler the whole time since they were last seen. No way she could have snuck out, Well, that's something I've also been considering... It seems that at least some of the time, piece-Battler is also saying what meta-Battler is ranting at Beato. The other pawns at least sometimes respond to meta-Battler's rants and the setting transitions make it look like he's kinda dissociating? It's eroding my faith in his reliability.
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Nov 21, 2016 23:47
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But what if Rosa is right, and he isn't the Battler they know! (dun dun dun)
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Nov 21, 2016 23:57
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Well, that's something I've also been considering... It seems that at least some of the time, piece-Battler is also saying what meta-Battler is ranting at Beato. The other pawns at least sometimes respond to meta-Battler's rants and the setting transitions make it look like he's kinda dissociating? It's eroding my faith in his reliability. Bholder posted:But what if Rosa is right, and he isn't the Battler they know! It's entirely possible that the metaverse/purgatorio version of Battler is in fact not the Battler that existed in this "game" prior to it being narrated. So here's a question that you'd never think to ask in a game where Magic And Witches Don't Exist: if you take the place of an alternate reality version of yourself, are you still you, or are you the alternate you? Is it possible that meta-Battler is there, witnessing, whereas actual-Battler is off elsewhere, doing Shenanigans where his meta-self can't see?
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Nov 22, 2016 00:27
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KataraniSword posted:It's entirely possible that the metaverse/purgatorio version of Battler is in fact not the Battler that existed in this "game" prior to it being narrated. So here's a question that you'd never think to ask in a game where Magic And Witches Don't Exist: if you take the place of an alternate reality version of yourself, are you still you, or are you the alternate you? In my profession, there's the concept of independence in appearance versus independence in fact. I'm going to extend this concept to interdimensional body-swapping between the same being traveling along different forks in the timeline and say that if alpha-you takes the place of beta-you, for all intents and purposes, you are yourself, even if the experiences your alpha and beta have accrued have resulted in alpha and beta developing different perspectives and agendas. No one in the beta-timeline has demonstrated any ability to perceive alpha-purgatory besides meta-Battler. (let's just confuse all the prefixes, hooray!) There's no reason to believe that meta-Battler is more than a ghost caught in the machinery of the universe. I suspect he might be less, and is some coping mechanism by real-Battler -- whether the pawn/beta-Battler we're seeing in this ep, or some "true end" Battler we'll meet in the future. (I mean... these games usually do have a "true end", right? So I anticipate we'll encounter that eventually...)
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Nov 22, 2016 00:35
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 ...huh?
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Nov 22, 2016 01:04
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The second twilight is the one about the two lovers being torn apart. Or something to that extant. The killer has been sorta doing the ritual out of order. Which is further proof that magic is not real. A real witch wouldn't have half-assed it. POOL IS CLOSED posted:In my profession, there's the concept of independence in appearance versus independence in fact. I'm going to extend this concept to interdimensional body-swapping between the same being traveling along different forks in the timeline and say that if alpha-you takes the place of beta-you, for all intents and purposes, you are yourself, even if the experiences your alpha and beta have accrued have resulted in alpha and beta developing different perspectives and agendas. No one in the beta-timeline has demonstrated any ability to perceive alpha-purgatory besides meta-Battler. (let's just confuse all the prefixes, hooray!) There's no reason to believe that meta-Battler is more than a ghost caught in the machinery of the universe. I suspect he might be less, and is some coping mechanism by real-Battler -- whether the pawn/beta-Battler we're seeing in this ep, or some "true end" Battler we'll meet in the future. (I mean... these games usually do have a "true end", right? So I anticipate we'll encounter that eventually...)
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Nov 22, 2016 01:35
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SardonicTyrant posted:Imagine four Battlers on the edge of a cliff. I'm gonna fall out if Battler pops up with a playing card in one of these screenshots.
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Nov 22, 2016 01:37
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SardonicTyrant posted:The second twilight is the one about the two lovers being torn apart. Or something to that extant. The killer has been sorta doing the ritual out of order. The profile literally says he was the sixth twilight. Are two different people writing the profiles?
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Nov 22, 2016 02:20
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curiousCat posted:The profile literally says he was the sixth twilight. Ok guys I know overthinking poo poo is half the fun of Umineko but this literally just means "He was almost the second Twilight" which Beatrice says as much back when she killed Kanon and Jessica.
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Nov 22, 2016 04:19
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 October 5th, 1986, 11:30 PM  BGM: Witch in Gold He didn't feel like going back to the guesthouse in the middle of this rain, and wandered halfheartedly inside the mansion in search for a place where he could sit adequately, making the dining hall into his stronghold. It wasn't even locked. He thought that maybe the shapeless murderer, or the Golden Witch, would come to kill him now that he was isolated, but he no longer thought about confronting the culprit. On the contrary, he didn't even feel like using the locks to block the culprit. He wanted that person to come at him openly, from the front. If it was the murderer, he thought he'd ask them to tell about some of those wonderful closed room tricks as a parting souvenir. If it was the witch, he thought that she would at least take his life with some wonderful magic. ...However, ironically, neither of these two came to meet Battler... Battler opened the liquor cabinet on his own and enjoyed the liquor to his heart's content. No longer was there anybody anywhere who would have a problem with him drinking alcohol. He boldly set both of his legs on the extravagant table cloth and savored the high quality liquor, which probably had a mind-boggling price, tilting down each one of the bottles... At that time, someone knocked. Battler realized that someone had finally come to greet him...   "Even though I look like this, I am well know as a breast-sommelier, y'sheee? Hic." "...It's Genji, Battler-sama." "...Genji-san, is it... Sorry, but I have no interest in your bust size. Please, come in. It's open." Genji-san opened the door and bowed. So Genji-san was the criminal after all... or maybe an accomplice? That theory probably explains most of the tricks...  "Did you come to give me my last rites?" "...Nothing of the sort. I apologize if I am disturbing you." "...Hey, hey, saying I'm sorry without even telling me what you want is actually pretty creepy. What do you want? Are you gonna tell me that drinking alcohol is forbidden for minors? I'll just die anyways. Please, let me do as I wish, at least in the very end." "...Battler-sama, do you love alcohol so much, that you will spend the little time you have left before you die drinking it?"Those words, pierced me... That wasn't true. "...It's just that, if I don't drink it, nobody will. I don't know the flavor of alcohol at all..." "...You are just like Master. Indeed, you inherited Master's blood strongly..." "You mean that Grandfather, the heavy drinker, drank to drown all his cares in alcohol...? First I've heard of that." "...After some sad incidents, Master's life... was completely reduced to atonement." "...What do you know?" BGM: Ageha "Wha-...what did you say...?"My drunkenness was completely blown away. I lowered my feet from the table and listened carefully to hear what kind of words Genji would say next... "Battler-sama... I shall guide you to the Master's study. It would probably be better to hear it directly from them." "From... them...? H-hey, what in the world do you mean by that...!!" "...Come, this way. I shall guide you. Battler-sama."After Genji-san told me to follow him, he started to walk down the corridor. I threw my drunkenness off completely and went after him... We climbed a big staircase, towards the third floor. Genji-san stopped walking halfway. He then turned back and spoke.  "Don't threaten me. Today, I've seen more things I can't understand than I'd have liked to." "...What you see is as it appears. What you hear is as it sounds, so please accept it." "Why? What? There is no need for questions like that. Battler-sama, you will probably at least know the truth. I will leave it completely up to you, Battler-sama, whether to accept it, believe it, or deny it." "..."Genji-san checked one last time to see whether I was prepared to know the truth. The eighth twilight had already ended. And at the ninth twilight, the witch would be revived... and nobody would be left alive. It meant that Beatrice was already being revived. And probably, none of us would be allowed to live and return. If I was going lose my life anyways... I wanted to know the truth in the end. It didn't matter how hard it might be to accept. "...Yeah... Even if a demon or a witch shows up, I'm prepared." "...Indeed, you are just like the Master in his youth. Battler-sama, please be diligent in your studies. In the future, you will surely have great aspirations. And at that time, make sure that there is nothing that you will regret for your entire life due to lack of knowledge." "...If I have chance to work hard in my studies, then no problem." "..."It felt like Genji-san's silence forced me to consider that resignation of mine more deeply...  Genji-san picked a gold key with an elegant design out from his pocket. The master keys had been confiscated by Aunt Rosa, but the key to this study was the only one he had kept with him. He put it in the keyhole, and it made a heavy clunking sound. "...Master. It's Genji. I brought Battler-sama with me."There was no reply, but it seemed that permission to go in had been given... "Come, Battler-sama. Please, go in." "...Yeah. I'll go in."I readied myself, and threw the door open...  BGM: Black Liliana It was... somehow... a swarm of butterflies, shining gold. The golden butterflies that were completely filling the inside of the study poured out all at once... "Wha-... What is... this..."It was almost like golden leaf confetti. The interior of Grandfather's study was filled with a golden glow... And... there was a sofa like a reception chair in front of the study desk... where I could see Grandfather's back. There was someone on the side opposite from Grandfather. It was a shadow, so I couldn't see it well... "...Master. I brought Battler-sama." "...Battler, is it? I'm busy thinking now... Be silent for a while..."Kinzo declared that unhappily, his back still turned. It seemed that he was enjoying playing chess with a visitor... Apparently, the opponent had counterattacked with a superb move. Kinzo seemed to be enjoying himself as he thought deeply, while occasionally laughing and groaning...   "...Fufufufufufufufu. Indeed, this is a deeply matured move. So fun, so fun... *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*, hahahahahahaha...!! Unbearable, unbearable." "... Wha- What is... this..." "So you came, Battler. I've been waiting for a while. Be silent for Kinzo's sake. Isn't it too early to resign, Kinzo? I could already counterattack it in several ways. *cackle*cackle*cackle*...!"It should have been... my first meeting with that witch. However, I knew this witch. Even though it was our first meeting... I knew her... from the portrait...! "Genji. Serve some alcohol for Battler. What would be an appropriate liquor for this man...?" "...That liquor which Master has loved since the days of his youth." "That's good, serve it. You did well coming here, Ushiromiya Battler. First, sit down.   "...The door of the Golden Land will soon be opened. Soon, we will have a banquet to celebrate my revival, at which I will be welcoming the witches. In the meantime, I'll be answering your questions, as many as you like." "I... I have a bunch of things I want to ask about!! What happened on this island?! And why did incidents like these occur?! I want to ask about the closed rooms too!! What about the chapel?! What about Jessica's room?! And the servants' room?! And Aunt Natsuhi's room?! And the parlor?!" "There's much more I want to ask about!! About the witch's true nature!! Is Beatrice really a witch?!! What is your purpose, what do you want to make us do and why did you call me here?!! Answer me, about everything!!!" "Arrrrghhh, be quiet!! You think you'll get answers if you ask?!?!" "Don't say that, Kinzo. A fragile and fleeting spider web did protect from King Herod once. Just like there are no useless things in this world, there are also no useless questions." "Veery well, I'll answer all your questions. But, there is only one condition." "What is it?" "...Kinzo and I made a bet. We bet on which would come first, Kinzo thinking of a new move, or me making you surrender. I don't feel like losing. *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*...!" "...D... drat you, talking so tough!! Yeah, alright. Try to make me admit it. Try to make me admit that you're a witch and that you can use weird, awesome, and great magic!!" "If I surrender, I'll kiss you or do anything else!!!"The witch cackled gloatingly. Then, she glared at him unpleasantly with eyes that said a man can't go back on his word...              
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Nov 22, 2016 16:28
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Astoundingly, this is not quite the end. Look forward to one last scene, then the usual post-game discussions.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:29
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This is a very interesting scene, because until this post, I've accepted everything Battler has experienced as the only thing we can truly trust. But Battler's kind of drunk here, so should we, the viewers, accept that Beatrice's explanations explained everything?
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Nov 22, 2016 17:08
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I still wondering if the other Battler in Purgatory/Hell has a different opinion than this Battler or if they both share a consciousness. I feel like now would be the time they would confirm it, so I'm just waiting for the next update. Also it said Rosa denied Beatrice, I thought the reason Battler is in Purgatory/Hell was because he denied Beatrice existing and that ruined her plans. Unless she just got murdered outright like Natsuhi did last episode? Fabulousvillain fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 18:37
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I'd argue that if you accept explanations that someone who is already established as being incompetent accepted, You are incompetent as well.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:54
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All Genji wants is... a peaceful sleep? All he wants is to die? I guess we should probably consider Kinzo's lost love an unknown, but if it's not just Beatrice, that would be. Rather surprising.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:10
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