PYF Historical Fun Fact: (USER LOSETH POSTYNG PRIVILYGES FOR FOUR AND TWENTY HOURS)

The Something Awful Forums > Main > Post Your Favorite: Carefully Curated > PYF Historical Fun Fact: (USER LOSETH POSTYNG PRIVILYGES FOR FOUR AND TWENTY HOURS)

«‹›381 »

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

In 1034 Harald Hardr�de (Harald the Hard Ruler) went to Byzantine and joined the varangian guard for seven years. During that time empress Zo� Porphyrogenita developed a crush on him and asked for a lock of his hair, Harald answered that he would give Zoe that if she gave him a lock of her "belly hair".

# ? Nov 19, 2016 20:59

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 13, 2024 22:58

Lord Lambeth: Dec 7, 2011

Kevin DuBrow posted:

I don't have my copy on hand but I'm pretty sure that the Conservatives favored blue.

Outside of America Conservatives generally do favor blue. Blame TV for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgz3p4cEXZU

# ? Nov 20, 2016 00:04

Carbon dioxide: Oct 9, 2012

Lord Lambeth posted:

Outside of America Conservatives generally do favor blue. Blame TV for that.

This is not completely accurate. In Europe, the economic left favours red, even the strong conservative elements in the economic left. The economic right favours blue, even the liberal factors in the economic right.

# ? Nov 20, 2016 09:10

System Metternich: Feb 28, 2010; But what did he mean by that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUIUyKLo3bA

This is "The Weavers", a short silent film made in 1905 by the Brothers Manaki. The Manakis came from Avdella, a small village in the Ottoman Empire that today is part of the Greek region of West Macedonia. The movie is said to be the first movie made in the Balkans by people living there and depicts the Manakis' aunts and grandmother in Avdella.

But that's not the interesting part. See the old woman, which is filmed weaving beginning at the 12 seconds mark? That's their grandmother Despina, who at the time being filmed was said to be 114 years old. If this is true (and I've found nothing that would cast doubt on that), then you're looking at footage of a person born in the 18th century.

e: in 1791, when Despina was supposedly born, the Holy Roman Empire still existed (and would continue to do so for 15 years), the Americas were mostly ruled by Spain, Vermont is admitted as the 14th state, the colony of New South Wales is a whopping three years old and the French royal family tries in vain to flee the country which will nonetheless remain a monarchy for another year or so.

System Metternich has a new favorite as of 21:25 on Nov 20, 2016

# ? Nov 20, 2016 21:15

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

System Metternich posted:

[old people]

This sent me on a wiki walk that included:

"Casquette girl posted:

They were conspicuous by reason of their virtue. Normally women were supplied to the colonists by raking the streets of Paris for undesirables, or by emptying the houses of correction. The casquette girls, however, were recruited from church charitable institutions, usually orphanages and convents, and, although poor, were practically guaranteed to be virgins.

"Pamlico Sound posted:

In March 1524, Italian Explorer Giovanni da Verrazzano mistook the sound for the Pacific Ocean because of its wide expanse and separation from the Atlantic Ocean by the Outer Banks barrier islands.

"Snorri Thorfinnsson posted:

Snorri Thorfinnsson (Old Norse and Icelandic: Snorri �orfinnsson or Snorri Karlsefnisson) probably born between 1004 and 1013, and died c. 1090) was the son of explorers �orfinnur Karlsefni and Gu�r��ur �orbjarnard�ttir. He is considered to be the first white child to be born in the Americas, apart from Greenland.

# ? Nov 20, 2016 22:52

the future is WOW: Sep 9, 2005; I QUIT!

Platystemon posted:

Revoke the corporate charter. Split up their assets.

That lets them off too easy. Turn them into a non profit and force them to donate any income above basic operating costs to local and federal aid programs aimed at helping the community and people affected by their crimes.

Yeah, I know it would never work for any number of reasons but it's a nice thought.

# ? Nov 20, 2016 23:36

The North Tower: Aug 20, 2007; You should throw it in the ocean.

The Shaggs

In 1968 a father made his 3 daughters create a band, since his mother had predicted that they would be a success from a palm reading she had done. They had minimal musical training, but they created a wholly original sound.

Described as "hauntingly bad", the album has been said to be one of Frank Zappa and Kurt Cobain's favorites. Zappa is claimed to have called them "better than the Beatles", and the album has become somewhat popular recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shaggs

# ? Nov 21, 2016 14:10

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

The North Tower posted:

The Shaggs

In 1968 a father made his 3 daughters create a band, since his mother had predicted that they would be a success from a palm reading she had done. They had minimal musical training, but they created a wholly original sound.

Described as "hauntingly bad", the album has been said to be one of Frank Zappa and Kurt Cobain's favorites. Zappa is claimed to have called them "better than the Beatles", and the album has become somewhat popular recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shaggs

How could you post this without the album? Oh god this is terrible :psyduck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQqK1CjE9bA

# ? Nov 21, 2016 14:34

Government Handjob: Nov 1, 2004; Gudbrandsglasnost; College Slice

The North Tower posted:

The Shaggs

Holy hell this is so bad I can't stop listening to it.

# ? Nov 21, 2016 16:01

Kennel: May 1, 2008; BAWWW-UNH!

Government Handjob posted:

Holy hell this is so bad I can't stop listening to it.

http://www.octopuspie.com/2009-11-22/342-as-bad-as-it-looks/

Kennel has a new favorite as of 16:42 on Nov 21, 2016

# ? Nov 21, 2016 16:38

Fish of hemp: Apr 1, 2011; A friendly little mouse!

Rutibex posted:

How could you post this without the album? Oh god this is terrible

I listened to this in one sitting.

It was certainly something.

But this went through a whole recording process. Was this the best takes gobbled together? Didn't anybody at any point said, that isn't actually music, it's just mostly random sounds? I mean I'm kind of glad this got made, I just can't imagine how.

Imagine the faces of local radio djs when they have listened to this for the first time. I bet their father must have included some kind cheaply made brochure in which this band is hailed as the next superstar.

# ? Nov 21, 2016 17:17

Spuckuk: Aug 11, 2009; Being a bastard works

The North Tower posted:

The Shaggs

In 1968 a father made his 3 daughters create a band, since his mother had predicted that they would be a success from a palm reading she had done. They had minimal musical training, but they created a wholly original sound.

Described as "hauntingly bad", the album has been said to be one of Frank Zappa and Kurt Cobain's favorites. Zappa is claimed to have called them "better than the Beatles", and the album has become somewhat popular recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shaggs

My university roommate had a copy of this, and we spent way too much time listening to it while baked.

# ? Nov 21, 2016 19:22

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

As far as music goes, I think the chitlin' circuit was a pretty fascinating phenomenon. Obviously it was the product of African-American artists making the best of a bad situation in the midst of the Jim Crow era, and sure it was run by a bunch of gangsters, but it's a really interesting example of marginalised people creating an entire music and performance industry within the margin they'd been unjustly forced into, built around this network of nightclubs and theatres and largely independent of mainstream pop music. While Duke Ellington would pay his band $40 a night playing at Carnegie Hall, guys like Walter Barnes and King Kolax could keep an orchestra on the road for most of the year playing the chitlin' circuit and afford to pay their musicians sometimes up to $100 a night.

Same thing with the so-called "gospel highway". You'd have guys like the Dixie Hummingbirds, the Soul Stirrers, the Sensational Nightingales, the Five Blind Boys of Mississippi and so on (most of whom could rock a lot harder than just about any contemporary rock and roller other than Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bo Diddley and maybe Larry Williams) on the road, and it would be really carefully planned out. They'd play in storefront churches in big cities then go out and time their tours to align with the harvests being brought in (i.e. hitting the tobacco states in late summer) because that's when prospective audiences, mostly farm labourers and sharecroppers, would have some money to go and see them.

Those are just two examples, of course. Whenever you look at any "Top 50 Worst / Dumbest Album Covers of All Time" list on the Internet, the lion's share of them are sure to be Christian albums from the 1960s and 1970s. They're fun to look at, but much more than that, they hint at this forgotten "shadow" music industry which existed independently of the mainstream, built on this network of everything from tent meetings to the early megachurches.

If you're interested in learning more about the chitlin' circuit I readily recommend The Chitlin' Circuit and the Road to Rock & Roll by Preston Lauterbach.

# ? Nov 21, 2016 21:24

Nckdictator: Sep 8, 2006; Just..someone

Wheat Loaf posted:

They're fun to look at, but much more than that, they hint at this forgotten "shadow" music industry which existed independently of the mainstream, built on this network of everything from tent meetings to the early megachurches.

Any more information on this?

Anyways, here's some interesting, contrasting views on Lincoln, first a modern one , the second one from 1909.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/10/lincolns-great-depression/304247/

(Only copy/pasting bits and pieces of the first article, the full thing is worth reading.)

quote:

...By 1835 Lincoln had lived for four years in New Salem, a village in central Illinois that backed up to a bluff over the Sangamon River. Twenty-six years old, he had made many friends there. That summer an epidemic of what doctors called "bilious fever"�typhoid, probably�spread through the area. Among those severely afflicted were Lincoln's friends the Rutledges. One of New Salem's founding families, they had run a tavern and boardinghouse where Lincoln stayed and took meals when he first arrived. He became friendly with Ann Rutledge, a bright, pretty young woman with golden hair and large blue eyes. In August of 1835 she took sick. Visiting her at her family's farm, Lincoln seemed deeply distressed, which made people wonder whether the two had a romantic, and not just a friendly, bond. After Lincoln's death such speculation would froth over into a messy controversy�one that cannot be, and need not be, resolved. Regardless of how he felt about Rutledge while she was alive, her sickness and death drew Lincoln to his emotional edge. Around the time of her burial a rainstorm, accompanied by unseasonable cold, shoved him over. "As to the condition of Lincoln's Mind after the death of Miss R.," Henry McHenry, a farmer in the area, recalled, "after that Event he seemed quite changed, he seemed Retired, & loved Solitude, he seemed wraped in profound thought, indifferent, to transpiring Events, had but Little to say, but would take his gun and wander off in the woods by him self, away from the association of even those he most esteemed, this gloom seemed to deepen for some time, so as to give anxiety to his friends in regard to his Mind."

Indeed, the villagers' anxiety was intense, both for Lincoln's immediate safety and for his long-term mental health. Lincoln "told Me that he felt like Committing Suicide often," remembered Mentor Graham, a schoolteacher, and his neighbors mobilized to keep him safe. One friend recalled, "Mr Lincolns friends � were Compelled to keep watch and ward over Mr Lincoln, he being from the sudden shock somewhat temporarily deranged. We watched during storms�fogs�damp gloomy weather � for fear of an accident." Some villagers worried that he'd end up insane. After several weeks an older couple in the area took him into their home. Bowling Green, the large, merry justice of the peace, and his wife, Nancy, took care of Lincoln for a week or two. When he had improved somewhat, they let him go, but he was, Mrs. Green said, "quite melancholy for months."

.... Indeed, it became clear in Lincoln's late twenties that he had more than a passing condition. Robert L. Wilson, who was elected to the Illinois state legislature with Lincoln in 1836, found him amiable and fun-loving. But one day Lincoln told him something surprising. Lincoln said "that although he appeared to enjoy life rapturously, Still he was the victim of terrible melancholly," Wilson recalled. "He Sought company, and indulged in fun and hilarity without restraint, or Stint as to time[.] Still when by himself, he told me that he was so overcome with mental depression, that he never dare carry a knife in his pocket."

..Both sides of melancholy are evident in a poem on suicide that Lincoln apparently wrote in his twenties. Discussed by his contemporaries but long undiscovered, the poem, unsigned, recently came to light through the efforts of the scholar Richard Lawrence Miller, who was aided by old records that have been made newly available. Without an original manuscript or a letter in which ownership is claimed, no unsigned piece can be attributed definitively to an author. But the evidence points strongly to Lincoln. The poem was published in the year cited by Lincoln's closest friend, Joshua Speed, and its syntax, tone, meter, and other qualities are characteristic of Lincoln.

The poem ran in the August 25, 1838, issue of the Sangamo Journal, under the title "The Suicide's Soliloquy." At the top a note explains that the lines of verse were found "near the bones" of an apparent suicide in a deep forest by the Sangamon River. The conceit, in other words, is that this is a suicide note. As the poem begins, the anguished narrator announces his intention.

Here, where the lonely hooting owl
Sends forth his midnight moans,
Fierce wolves shall o'er my carcase growl,
Or buzzards pick my bones.

No fellow-man shall learn my fate,
Or where my ashes lie;
Unless by beasts drawn round their bait,
Or by the ravens' cry.

Yes! I've resolved the deed to do,
And this the place to do it:
This heart I'll rush a dagger through
Though I in hell should rue it!

To ease me of this power to think,
That through my bosom raves,
I'll headlong leap from hell's high brink
And wallow in its waves.

...Like the first, Lincoln's second breakdown came after a long period of intense work. In 1835 he had been studying law; in the winter of 1840�1841 he was trying to keep the debt-ridden State of Illinois from collapsing (and his political career with it). On top of this came a profound personal stress. The precipitating causes are hard to identify precisely, in part because cause and effect in depressive episodes can be hard to separate. Ordinarily we insist on a narrative line: factor x led to reaction y. But in a depressive crisis we might feel bad because something has gone awry. Or we might make things go awry because we feel so bad. Or both.

For Lincoln in this winter many things were awry. Even as he faced the possibility that his political career was sunk, it seemed likely that he was inextricably bound to a woman he didn't love (Mary Todd) and that Joshua Speed was going to either move away to Kentucky or stay in Illinois and marry Matilda Edwards, the young woman whom Lincoln said he really wanted but could not even approach, because of his bond with Todd. Then came a stretch of intensely cold weather, which, Lincoln later wrote, "my experience clearly proves to be verry severe on defective nerves." Once again he began to speak openly about his misery, hopelessness, and thoughts of suicide�alarming his friends. "Lincoln went Crazy," Speed recalled. "�had to remove razors from his room�take away all Knives and other such dangerous things�&�it was terrible."

In January of 1841 Lincoln submitted himself to the care of a medical doctor, spending several hours a day with Dr. Anson Henry, whom he called "necessary to my existence." Although few details of the treatment are extant, he probably went through what a prominent physician of the time called "the desolating tortures of officious medication." When he emerged, on January 20, he was "reduced and emaciated in appearance," wrote a young lawyer in town named James Conkling. On January 23 Lincoln wrote to his law partner in Washington:

"I am now the most miserable man living. If what I feel were equally distributed to the whole human family, there would not be one cheerful face on the earth. Whether I shall ever be better I can not tell; I awfully forebode I shall not. To remain as I am is impossible; I must die or be better, it appears to me."

This spare, direct letter captures the core of depression as forcefully as the Gettysburg Address would distill the essence of the American experiment. It tells what depression is like: to feel not only miserable but the most miserable; to feel a strange, muted sense of awful power; to believe plainly that either the misery must end or life will�and yet to fear the misery will not end. The fact that Lincoln spoke thus, not to a counselor or a dear friend but to his law partner, indicates how relentlessly he insisted on acknowledging his fears. Through his late twenties and early thirties he drove deeper and deeper into them, hovering over what, according to Albert Camus, is the only serious question human beings have to deal with. He asked whether he could live, whether he could face life's misery.

Finally he decided that he must. Speed recorded the dramatic exchange that began when he came to Lincoln and told him he would die unless he rallied. Lincoln replied that he could kill himself, that he was not afraid to die. Yet, he said, he had an "irrepressible desire" to accomplish something while he lived. He wanted to connect his name with the great events of his generation, and "so impress himself upon them as to link his name with something that would redound to the interest of his fellow man." This was no mere wish, Lincoln said, but what he "desired to live for."

In his middle years Lincoln turned from the question of whether he could live to how he would live. Building bridges out from his tortured self, he engaged with the psychological culture of his time, investigating who he was, how he might change, and what he must endure. Having seen what he wished to live for, Lincoln suffered at the prospect that he might never achieve it. Even so, he worked diligently to improve himself, developing self-understanding, discipline, and strategies for succor that would become the foundation of his character.

The melancholy did not go away during this period but, rather, took a new form. Beginning in his mid-thirties Lincoln began to fall into what a law clerk called his "blue spells." A decade later the cast of his face and body when in repose suggested deep, abiding gloom to nearly all who crossed his path. In his memoirs the Illinois lawyer Henry C. Whitney recounted an afternoon at court in Bloomington, Illinois: "I was sitting with John T. Stuart"�Lincoln's first law partner�"while a case was being tried, and our conversation was, at the moment, about Lincoln, when Stuart remarked that he was a hopeless victim of melancholy. I expressed surprise, to which Stuart replied; 'Look at him, now.'" Whitney turned and saw Lincoln sitting by himself in a corner, "wrapped in abstraction and gloom." Whitney watched him for a while. "It appeared," he wrote, "as if he was pursuing in his mind some specific, sad subject, regularly and systematically through various sinuosities, and his sad face would assume, at times, deeper phases of grief: but no relief came from dark and despairing melancholy, till he was roused by the breaking up of court, when he emerged from his cave of gloom and came back, like one awakened from sleep, to the world in which he lived, again."

In one sense these spells indicate Lincoln's melancholy. But they may also represent a response to it�the visible end of Lincoln's effort to contain his dark feelings and thoughts, to wrestle privately with his moods until they passed or lightened. "With depression," writes the psychologist David B. Cohen, "recovery may be a matter of shifting from protest to more effective ways of mastering helplessness." Lincoln was effective, to a point. He worked well and consistently at his law practice, always rousing himself from gloom for work. He and Mary Lincoln (whom he had wed in 1842) had four boys. He was elected to a term in the United States Congress. Yet his reaction to this honor�he wrote, "Though I am very grateful to our friends, for having done it, [it] has not pleased me as much as I expected"�suggested that through booms and busts, Lincoln continued to see life as hard.

Indeed, he developed a philosophical melancholy. "He felt very strongly," said his friend Joseph Gillespie, "that there was more of discomfort than real happiness in human existence under the most favorable circumstances and the general current of his reflections was in that channel." Once a girl named Rosa Haggard, the daughter of a hotel proprietor in Winchester, Illinois, asked Lincoln to sign her autograph album. Lincoln took the book and wrote,

To Rosa
You are young, and I am older;
You are hopeful, I am not�
Enjoy life, ere it grows colder�
Pluck the roses ere they rot.

It's worth considering if someone with Lincoln's history of emotional problems could be elected President today.

In 1909 Leo Tolstoy had this to say about Lincoln.

http://storyoftheweek.loa.org/2010/02/tolstoi-holds-lincoln-worlds-greatest.html

quote:

�Of all the great national heroes and statesmen of history Lincoln is the only real giant. Alexander, Frederick the Great, Caesar, Napoleon, Gladstone and even Washington stand in greatness of character, in depth of feeling and in a certain moral power far behind Lincoln. Lincoln was a man of whom a nation has a right to be proud; he was a Christ in miniature, a saint of humanity, whose name will live thousands of years in the legends of future generations. We are still too near to his greatness, and so can hardly appreciate his divine power; but after a few centuries more our posterity will find him considerably bigger than we do. His genius is still too strong and too powerful for the common understanding, just as the sun is too hot when its light beams directly on us.

�If one would know the greatness of Lincoln one should lis- ten to the stories which are told about him in other parts of the world. I have been in wild places, where one hears the name of America uttered with such mystery as if it were some heaven or hell. I have heard various tribes of barbarians discussing the New World, but I heard this only in connection with the name of Lincoln. Lincoln as the wonderful hero of America is known by the most primitive nations of Asia. This may be illustrated through the following incident:

�Once while travelling in the Caucasus I happened to be the guest of a Caucasian chief of the Circassians, who, living far away from civilized life in the mountains, had but a fragmentary and childish comprehension of the world and its history. The fingers of civilization had never reached him nor his tribe, and all life beyond his native valleys was a dark mystery. Being a Mussulman he was naturally opposed to all ideas of progress and education.

�I was received with the usual Oriental hospitality and after our meal was asked by my host to tell him something of my life. Yielding to his request I began to tell him of my profession, of the development of our industries and inventions and of the schools. He listened to everything with indifference, but when I began to tell about the great statesmen and the great generals of the world he seemed at once to become very much interested.

��Wait a moment,� he interrupted, after I had talked a few minutes. �I want all my neighbors and my sons to listen to you. I will call them immediately.�

�He soon returned with a score of wild looking riders and asked me politely to continue. It was indeed a solemn moment when those sons of the wilderness sat around me on the floor and gazed at me as if hungering for knowledge. I spoke at first of our Czars and of their victories; then I spoke of the foreign rulers and of some of the greatest military leaders. My talk seemed to impress them deeply. The story of Napoleon was so interesting to them that I had to tell them every detail, as, for instance, how his hands looked, how tall he was, who made his guns and pistols and the color of his horse. It was very difficult to satisfy them and to meet their point of view, but I did my best. When I declared that I had finished my talk, my host, a gray- bearded, tall rider, rose, lifted his hand and said very gravely:

��But you have not told us a syllable about the greatest general and greatest ruler of the world. We want to know some- thing about him. He was a hero. He spoke with a voice of thunder; he laughed like the sunrise and his deeds were strong as the rock and as sweet as the fragrance of roses. The angels appeared to his mother and predicted that the son whom she would conceive would become the greatest the stars had ever seen. He was so great that he even forgave the crimes of his greatest enemies and shook brotherly hands with those who had plotted against his life. His name was Lincoln and the country in which he lived is called America, which is so far away that if a youth should journey to reach it he would be an old man when he arrived.Tell us of that man.�

��Tell us, please, and we will present you with the best horse of our stock,� shouted the others.

�I looked at them and saw their faces all aglow, while their eyes were burning. I saw that those rude barbarians were really interested in a man whose name and deeds had already become a legend. I told them of Lincoln and his wisdom, of his home life and youth. They asked me ten questions to one which I was able to answer. They wanted to know all about his habits, his influence upon the people and his physical strength. But they were very astonished to hear that Lincoln made a sorry figure on a horse and that he lived such a simple life.

��Tell us why he was killed,� one of them said.

�I had to tell everything. After all my knowledge of Lincoln was exhausted they seemed to be satisfied. I can hardly forget the great enthusiasm which they expressed in their wild thanks and desire to get a picture of the great American hero. I said that I probably could secure one from my friend in the nearest town, and this seemed to give them great pleasure.

�The next morning when I left the chief a wonderful Arabian horse was brought me as a present for my marvellous story, and our farewell was very impressive.

�One of the riders agreed to accompany me to the town and get the promised picture, which I was now bound to secure at any price. I was successful in getting a large photograph from my friend, and I handed it to the man with my greetings to his associates. It was interesting to witness the gravity of his face and the trembling of his hands when he received my present. He gazed for several minutes silently, like one in a reverent prayer; his eyes filled with tears. He was deeply touched and I asked him why he became so sad. After pondering my question for a few moments he replied:

��I am sad because I feel sorry that he had to die by the hand of a villain. Don�t you find, judging from his picture, that his eyes are full of tears and that his lips are sad with a secret sorrow?�

�Like all Orientals, he spoke in a poetical way and left me with many deep bows.

�This little incident proves how largely the name of Lincoln is worshipped throughout the world and how legendary his personality has become.

�Now, why was Lincoln so great that he overshadows all other national heroes? He really was not a great general like Napoleon or Washington; he was not such a skilful statesman as Gladstone or Frederick the Great; but his supremacy expresses itself altogether in his peculiar moral power and in the greatness of his character. He had come through many hardships and much experience to the realization that the greatest human achievement is love. He was what Beethoven was in music, Dante in poetry, Raphael in painting, and Christ in the philosophy of life. He aspired to be divine�and he was.

�It is natural that before he reached his goal he had to walk the highway of mistakes. But we find him, nevertheless, in every tendency true to one main motive, and that was to benefit man- kind. He was one who wanted to be great through his smallness. If he had failed to become President he would be, no doubt, just as great as he is now, but only God could appreciate it. The judgment of the world is usually wrong in the beginning, and it takes centuries to correct it. But in the case of Lincoln the world was right from the start. Sooner or later Lincoln would have been seen to be a great man, even though he had never been an American President. But it would have taken a great generation to place him where he belongs.

�Lincoln died prematurely by the hand of the assassin, and naturally we condemn the criminal from our viewpoint of justice. But the question is, was his death not predestined by a divine wisdom, and was it not better for the nation and for his greatness that he died just in that way and at that particular moment? We know so little about that divine law which we call fate that no one can answer. Christ had a presentiment of His death, and there are indications that also Lincoln had strange dreams and presentiments of something tragic. If that was really the fact, can we conceive that human will could have prevented the outcome of the universal or divine will? I doubt it. I doubt also that Lincoln could have done more to prove his greatness than he did. I am convinced we are but instruments in the hands of an unknown power and that we have to follow its bidding to the end. We have a certain apparent independence, according to our moral character, wherein we may benefit our fellows, but in all eternal and universal questions we follow blindly a divine pre- destination. According to that eternal law the greatest of national heroes had to die, but an immortal glory still shines on his deeds.

�However, the highest heroism is that which is based on humanity, truth, justice and pity; all other forms are doomed to forgetfulness. The greatness of Aristotle or Kant is insignificant compared with the greatness of Buddha, Moses and Christ. The greatness of Napoleon, Caesar or Washington is only moon- light by the sun of Lincoln. His example is universal and will last thousands of years. Washington was a typical American, Napoleon was a typical Frenchman, but Lincoln was a humanitarian as broad as the world. He was bigger than his country� bigger than all the Presidents together. Why? Because he loved his enemies as himself and because he was a universal individualist who wanted to see himself in the world�not the world in himself. He was great through his simplicity and was noble through his charity.

�Lincoln is a strong type of those who make for truth and justice, for brotherhood and freedom. Love is the foundation of his life. That is what makes him immortal and that is the quality of a giant. I hope that his centenary birth day will create an impulse toward righteousness among the nations. Lincoln lived and died a hero, and as a great character he will live as long as the world lives. May his life long bless humanity!�

It's good and even necessary to have the true image of Lincoln- or any "Great Man/Woman" - of history ; that of a flawed, human figure who had human virtues and vices. To whitewash their humanity is to betray history.

At the same time I think there's a place for the idealized myths: It's much more inspiring to think about the Washington who refused a kingship, the Lincoln who "lived with love as the foundation of his life", or the FDR who helped Little Orphan Annie (Alright, kinda reaching with that last one) then it is to think about Washington owning slaves, Lincoln abolishing habeas corpus , or FDR interning Japanese-Americans.

Sometimes we need those myths to serve as inspiration, and I'm ok with that.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 04:15

tacodaemon: Nov 27, 2006

Rutibex posted:

How could you post this without the album? Oh god this is terrible

You guys realize that the lead singer for The Shaggs released a brand new album in 2013 and then went on tour with Neutral Milk Hotel last year, right?

# ? Nov 22, 2016 04:51

Johnny Aztec: Jan 30, 2005; by Hand Knit

Nckdictator posted:

Sometimes we need those myths to serve as inspiration, and I'm ok with that.

So, then you disagree with the tearing down of Columbus then?
Columbus as the pure Exploration figurehead?

# ? Nov 22, 2016 05:17

Nckdictator: Sep 8, 2006; Just..someone

Johnny Aztec posted:

So, then you disagree with the tearing down of Columbus then?
Columbus as the pure Exploration figurehead?

Not at all. The myth of the "brave man who sailed into the unknown and showed those dumb Europeans that the world was not flat and found the New World (Native Americans? What Native Americans?)" needed to be challenged and it's a good thing that the truth has been recognized that Columbus was a butcher.

However, if the first man or woman to set foot on Mars or Proxima Centauri finds the idea or story of "A brave man who sailed into the unknown and found a New World" inspiring or something that drives them then it might be fine to let them have their myth.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 06:37

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Tolstoy posted:

Being a Mussulman he was naturally opposed to all ideas of progress and education.

Savage.

Nckdictator posted:

However, if the first man or woman to set foot on Mars or Proxima Centauri finds the idea or story of "A brave man who sailed into the unknown and found a New World" inspiring or something that drives them then it might be fine to let them have their myth.

That man�s name?

Leif Erikson.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 08:36

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Nckdictator posted:

Any more information on this?

I would like to think so. It I don't know where you'd find it. That part of my post was really a bit of an assumption.

If you are interested in the history of gospel music you should read The Gospel Sound: Good News In Bad Times by Anthony Heilbut, which really is the definitive text on the subject.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 09:26

Mr. Belpit: Nov 11, 2008

Platystemon posted:

That man’s name?

Leif Erikson.

Didn't discover poo poo either.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 11:20

Philippe: Aug 9, 2013; (she/her)

But he was a white guy!

# ? Nov 22, 2016 11:21

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Nobody really believed Columbus was going to sail over the edge of the world because most people (most learned people, anyway) knew the world was round in 1492. What they were worried about was that he would run out of provisions before he arrived in India, which is where he wanted to go, and if the Americas hadn't been in the way, that would have been the case.

Fun fact about the conquistadors: Francisco Pizarro never learned to write his own name, so had a stencil made with his signature which he filled in when he had to sign important documents.

Another fun fact (which I at least think is true): when Pizarro's enemies came to kill him, he fought them off with his sword and was only killed when they threw one of their friends onto his blade and stabbed him through the neck while he was trying to pull it out.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 11:37

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Mr. Belpit posted:

Didn't discover poo poo either.

Yeah he did.

Was he the first person to discover it? No.

But he still discovered it. He had no prior knowledge of North America. He was indeed sailing into the unknown (in a less foolhardy way than Chris C.).

Bravery is subjective; I can�t speak to that.

Wheat Loaf posted:

Nobody really believed Columbus was going to sail over the edge of the world because most people (most learned people, anyway) knew the world was round in 1492. What they were worried about was that he would run out of provisions before he arrived in India, which is where he wanted to go, and if the Americas hadn't been in the way, that would have been the case.rd and was only killed when they threw one of their friends onto his blade and stabbed him through the neck while he was trying to pull it out.

Columbus was one of the luckiest motherfuckers ever to live.

Not only was he saved by the existence of a continent he has no reason to believe existed, but you know that trope where the hero (white guy, time traveller, or both) awes the primitives with his knowledge of future eclipses? Columbus actually did that.

In Columbus fashion, this fortune was only necessary because he was being a total dick:

quote:

At first, the natives were hospitable to Columbus, but his sailors stole from and cheated the natives [also straight‐up murdered a few]. Finally, after six months the natives stopped their food supply to Columbus and his men.

Columbus had one last trick up his sleeve. Columbus had an astronomy almanac by Abraham Zacuto. He noticed there was a lunar eclipse coming up on February 29, 1504. He met with the tribal leader and told him God was angry with native�s treatment of Columbus. He said his God would put clear sign of his anger in the sky by making the full Moon appear �inflamed with wrath.�

His trick worked. When the natives saw the eclipse�on schedule, just as Columbus predicted�they ran from all directions to Columbus� ships with fresh provisions, begging him to pray to his God for protection. Columbus went to the cabin of his ship to �pray,� timing the eclipse with his hourglass. Totality�the period of time when the moon is completely engulfed in Earth�s shadow�was about to end, so Columbus emerged from his cabin and told them God had forgiven them. Just then the moon started to reappear and the natives were so grateful, they continued to care for his men for several more months until he was rescued.

Platystemon has a new favorite as of 11:59 on Nov 22, 2016

# ? Nov 22, 2016 11:46

The North Tower: Aug 20, 2007; You should throw it in the ocean.

tacodaemon posted:

You guys realize that the lead singer for The Shaggs released a brand new album in 2013 and then went on tour with Neutral Milk Hotel last year, right?

What. The. gently caress. Is this real life?

# ? Nov 22, 2016 13:13

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

I would say that somebody who arrived to a place unknown to anybody in his part of the world, to find people not yet contacted by anybody on his continent, who in turn did not know about the new arrival's land, was indeed a discoverer, of land and of its people, for his own people.

Whether or not some Scandinavians arrived to a different part of the same new world earlier is quite insignificant, because their discovery had virtually no impact on anything, the latter explorers were not aware of it, it was just a forgotten historical episode.

steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 19:04 on Nov 22, 2016

# ? Nov 22, 2016 19:02

canyoneer: Sep 13, 2005; I only have canyoneyes for you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Whitehead

Speaking of firsts, there's a guy who maybe flew his own plane a couple years before the Wright Brothers.

Big maybe there. He claims to have flown over Long Island Sound in his plane in 1902. It's an interesting bit of controversy, at least.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 19:21

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

I'm gonna use this opportunity to rehash in hopes of discovery the Roman Dodecahedron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron

Hundreds of these things have been found in modernity from all over the (formerly Roman) world, and it's likely many more exist or did exist before being re-purposed.

Problem is: While they make an interesting decoration now, nobody has a definitive idea of what they used to be for. One would think it makes a fine standard of measurement in an age without the metric system, except for that they frequently came in non-standard sizes.

It really bothers me to not understand a particular engineering choice. I'll go to lengths to dig up technical diagrams of my desktop stapler so I can find out why the engineer designed a particular lever like they did. I must know why these exist.

GolfHole has a new favorite as of 20:13 on Nov 22, 2016

# ? Nov 22, 2016 20:10

Jaramin: Oct 20, 2010

My guess is "cool doodad."

# ? Nov 22, 2016 20:25

GolfHole: Feb 26, 2004

Jaramin posted:

My guess is "cool doodad."

Maybe.
But consider that the casting effort and metal that went into making these could have much more easily been purposed into those swinging pendulum ball things that people in the 90's used to have on their desk.

And those are much cooler.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 20:39

AgentF: May 11, 2009

I guess y'all don't remember when it was discovered that these things were ancient 3D scanning devices:

http://www.romansystemsengineering.com/our_product.html

# ? Nov 22, 2016 21:47

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

steinrokkan posted:

I would say that somebody who arrived to a place unknown to anybody in his part of the world, to find people not yet contacted by anybody on his continent, who in turn did not know about the new arrival's land, was indeed a discoverer, of land and of its people, for his own people.

Whether or not some Scandinavians arrived to a different part of the same new world earlier is quite insignificant, because their discovery had virtually no impact on anything, the latter explorers were not aware of it, it was just a forgotten historical episode.

Oz posted:

The Vikings, their brutality aside, had their moments of brilliance. At one point, they were such great shipbuilders, that Leif Ericson and his crew sailed all the way to America. Some people say that he probably went as down south as the New York harbor. Here's where the brilliance comes in- they took a look and went back.

Wheat Loaf posted:

Fun fact about the conquistadors: Francisco Pizarro never learned to write his own name, so had a stencil made with his signature which he filled in when he had to sign important documents.

There are six signatures by Shakespeare that are regarded as authentic, all of them spell his name differently.
Fun fact about Shakespeare's tomb: On his tombstone it is inscribed "Good friend, for Jesus' sake forebear, To dig the dust enclosed hear, Blessed be the man that spares these stones, And cursed be he that moves my bones". It is believed that it was written because digging up and eating dead famous guys was the fad back then.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 22:06

NLJP: Aug 26, 2004

Still my favourite thread on the forum that roman dodecahedron one, I think. It's certainly up there.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 22:12

Ichabod Sexbeast: Dec 5, 2011; Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle

I was gonna say ancient D&D

# ? Nov 22, 2016 22:13

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Alhazred posted:

There are six signatures by Shakespeare that are regarded as authentic, all of them spell his name differently.

Shakespeare was pretty infamously bad at spelling, which is probably why he ended up inventing so many words.

It's estimated that Shakespeare used about 18,000 words in his plays and poems, while the Bible at the time used only around 8,000.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 22:29

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Alhazred posted:

There are six signatures by Shakespeare that are regarded as authentic, all of them spell his name differently.

This was pretty common in my experience... Nobody spelled anything consistently. Even within the same text, you'll find the same writer using several variations on the same words.

I don't know that you can really say anyone was a bad speller before the advent of standardized spelling.

# ? Nov 22, 2016 22:44

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

Dictionaries didn't really become a "Thing" until the 1600s, there wasn't much standardization on how to spell things and people just agreed "eh, if it sounds right".

# ? Nov 22, 2016 23:50

Say Nothing: Mar 5, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

Wheat Loaf posted:

Shakespeare was pretty infamously bad at spelling, which is probably why he ended up inventing so many words.

It's estimated that Shakespeare used about 18,000 words in his plays and poems, while the Bible at the time used only around 8,000.

Not only that, but Shakespeare invented over 1700 new words.

Shakespeare invented the word 'zany'.

http://shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.html

# ? Nov 23, 2016 00:01

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Typical enough, there isn't one exact spelling of the author's name of the first known English alphabetical dictionary. He was also enough of a visionary to include instructions on alphabetical lookup.

# ? Nov 23, 2016 00:02

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

Spellings may change, but some things are forever.

I have a gentil cok,
Crowyt me day;
He doth me rysyn erly,
My matyins for to say.

I have a gentil cok,
Comyn he is of gret;
His comb is of reed corel,
His tayil is of get.

I have a gentyl cook,
Comyn he is of kynde;
His comb is of red corel,
His tayl is of inde.

His legges ben of asor,
So gentil and so smale;
His spores arn of sylver qwyt,
Into the wortewale.

His eynyn arn of cristal,
Lokyn al in aumbry;
And every nyght he perchit hym
In myn ladyis chaumbyr.

(from Select Secular Lyrics of the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Centuries, University of Rochester Library)

# ? Nov 23, 2016 00:04

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 13, 2024 22:58

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Another fun fact: Dr Samuel Johnson's vendetta against the people of Scotland was such that in the original version of his dictionary, he defined "oats" as "a grain, which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people". The comeback from Scottish writers was approximately, "This is why England has the most beautiful horses, but Scotland has the most beautiful women."

# ? Nov 23, 2016 00:08

The Something Awful Forums > Main > Post Your Favorite: Carefully Curated > PYF Historical Fun Fact: (USER LOSETH POSTYNG PRIVILYGES FOR FOUR AND TWENTY HOURS)

«‹›381 »