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Reminder: A Democratic sweep of all 12 potentially competitive Senate races in 2018 results in a net gain of D +1 Senate seats and Republicans maintaining control of the chamber.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:34
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Business Gorillas posted:- i want democrats to show people that they empathize with their wants and needs to provide for their families (ideally through some sort of new new deal involving revitalizing infrastructure or pivoting former industry cities to tackle green energy) and start working on divorcing the idea that a hard day's work is necessary for a good pay. we need a basic income as the current situation is untenable and you're right, everyone can't have a job. you don't seem to realize that a democratic federal government, even if they were not being blocked by an obstructionist opposition party, cannot simply meddle in urban economics directly which is a state affair for someone who has a lot of ideas about what the government should do you sometimes display shocking levels of ignorance as to how government actually functions
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Nov 22, 2016 21:37
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Venuz Patrol posted:the democratic plan was to set up high scale midwestern infrastructure projects across the nation to provide jobs to struggling rural neighborhoods while also significantly improving their livelihoods. republicans killed these projects because they don't think it's the government's job to help people. the white progressive movement does not have an explanation for how their midwestern infrastructure projects would get around this issue. I'll be perfectly honest, I don't really have an answer for this either other than "torch the Constitution, salt the earth, and restart."
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Nov 22, 2016 21:37
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here is what i demand the democrat party provide -puppies -kittens -rainbows that they fail to produce these policies demonstrates they do not care about the working class
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Nov 22, 2016 21:39
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boner confessor posted:here is what i demand the democrat party provide I'm pretty sure they've produced the last one... too bad republicans are going to get it reversed. 
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Nov 22, 2016 21:40
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One of Trump's Propoganda guys is going after Elon Musk: https://stopelonfromfailingagain.com/
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Nov 22, 2016 21:42
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also keep in mind the only reason the new deal got off the ground was because it was hilariously racist and a ton of modern institutional inequality such as redlining is the direct result of 1920's era progressive policy on the federal level. like, the federal government invented the long term amortized mortgage, bringing homeownership to the american middle class (good) and then said "hey black people, jews, etc - you do not get these mortgages" (bad)
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Nov 22, 2016 21:43
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One hope I have, and it's not completely unrealistic, is that Trump is such a disaster and pisses so many people off, that it results in higher than usual Dem turnout and lower Rep turnout in the 2018 midterms, Dems take back some state legislatures and make significant gains in the House and don't lose as many senate seats as feared. And then in 2020 take back house, senate, and the white house. In fact there's part of me that thinks in the long run we'll get back control of congress and more state legislatures sooner with Trump as president than Hillary. (who even if she was an A+ president still probably would have left people disappointed since she couldn't do much with an obstructionist republican congress). Biggest fear I have though is more voter suppression laws will be passed which will make this scenario less likely to happen. Still, I like to hope.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:43
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Gringostar posted:Just because things no longer matter doesn't mean they didn't matter 5 years ago when Trump wasn't a thing. hmm, i don't think it's a case of "things don't matter" and rather that political common sense has been shown to be wrong. quote:Also, no, you gave me a bullet point list of excuses and doomsaying, when my question was literally quote:why is your doomsaying an excuse for obama to back out of his campaign promises when labor needed him?
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Nov 22, 2016 21:45
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Business Gorillas posted:the generation that was successful due to their parent's struggles, internalized the lessons of the culture wars, and then used those lessons to cement their power and pillage our future for their gain absolutely deserves all of the blame it gets So your solution to the Democrats turning off Trump voters by negativity and not listening to them is to... double down on it?
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Nov 22, 2016 21:46
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Condiv posted:hmm, i don't think it's a case of "things don't matter" and rather that political common sense has been shown to be wrong. Because what could Obama even have done with such an obstructionist congress?
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Nov 22, 2016 21:46
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theblackw0lf posted:One hope I have, and it's not completely unrealistic, is that Trump is such a disaster and pisses so many people off, that it results in higher than usual Dem turnout and lower Rep turnout in the 2018 midterms, Dems take back some state legislatures and make significant gains in the House and don't lose as many senate seats as feared. And then in 2020 take back house, senate, and the white house. Could be. The pattern seems to be that every disgruntled voter votes "anti-establishment" which in practice means against the sitting president.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:47
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Covok posted:Because what could Obama even have done with such an obstructionist congress? he didn't need congress to walk with picketers 
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Nov 22, 2016 21:48
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Condiv posted:he didn't need congress to walk with picketers Perhaps I misunderstood your complaint. I thought you were referring to some law he didn't pass. What is your specific complaint?
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Nov 22, 2016 21:48
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BarbarianElephant posted:So your solution to the Democrats turning off Trump voters by negativity and not listening to them is to... double down on it? i can still think the boomers are bad people but want to work with them for pursuing a common goal (better paying jobs and a more secure economic future)
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Nov 22, 2016 21:50
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Covok posted:Because what could Obama even have done with such an obstructionist congress? actually used the bully pulpit and shift the public eye to exactly what the republicans were doing
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Nov 22, 2016 21:51
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Business Gorillas posted:i can still think the boomers are bad people but want to work with them for pursuing a common goal (better paying jobs and a more secure economic future) Boomers really are the "no, gently caress you dad" generation. "We fought facists and saved democracy, you lazy, entitled fucks" -- greatest generation "gently caress you, dad! You weren't that great. I'll elect a facist just to mess with your ghost" -- boomers
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Nov 22, 2016 21:51
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Business Gorillas posted:actually used the bully pulpit and shift the public eye to exactly what the republicans were doing What if I told you he tried but the media and public didn't care?
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Nov 22, 2016 21:52
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Condiv posted:hmm, i don't think it's a case of "things don't matter" and rather that political common sense has been shown to be wrong. That's literally the same thing. "Things don't matter" is the loving definition of "political common sense is wrong". Condiv posted:no, you gave me a bullet point list of excuses and doomsaying, when my question was literally Because he and democrats were toxic after republicans swept the 2010 election only a few months before hand. Like I get that you're not very bright and are only attempting to fishmech your way out of this now by arguing semantics but holy poo poo you really need to get the basics of context and why Obama actually marching with them had a huge potential to blow up in their faces while totally ignoring that he gave interviews in support of those very same protesters you claim he abandoned.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:53
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Gort posted:Does it bug anyone else that the President is protected by the SS You are, after all, posting on SA.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:53
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Trabisnikof posted:What if I told you he tried but the media and public didn't care? might as well not bother doing anything then *throws rock and contemplatively watches it skip across the lake*
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Nov 22, 2016 21:54
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Covok posted:Perhaps I misunderstood your complaint. I thought you were referring to some law he didn't pass. What is your specific complaint? i think it might have made a difference if obama marched with picketers in wisconsin, and that even if it was unlikely that that doesn't excuse obama for skipping out on an easy to satisfy campaign promise gringostar thinks obama marching with picketers wouldn't have made a difference, and that him issuing a statement was enough that's the current state of the argument
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Nov 22, 2016 21:56
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...s-a7432421.html The newly-enacted overtime rules are going to be one of the first on the chopping block. Good job voting yourselves a pay cut dumbasses!
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Nov 22, 2016 21:57
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Farking Bastage posted:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...s-a7432421.html Estimates are 20 million Trump voters will see an immediate pay cut.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:58
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Trabisnikof posted:Estimates are 20 million Trump voters will see an immediate pay cut. That is some pretty god drat low hanging fruit and every Democrat near a mic would do well to make the phrase "Trump Pay Cut" their new slogan.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:00
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Condiv posted:i think it might have made a difference if obama marched with picketers in wisconsin, and that even if it was unlikely that that doesn't excuse obama for skipping out on an easy to satisfy campaign promise Why would Scott Walker reverse course on something he campaigned on when he was beholden to the Koch's who just handed Obama a huge defeat by astoturfing the tea party movement just because Obama showed up and walked with protesters?
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Nov 22, 2016 22:01
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Gringostar posted:That's literally the same thing. "Things don't matter" is the loving definition of "political common sense is wrong". uh, no. things still matter, just not the things you thought mattered. quote:Because he and democrats were toxic after republicans swept the 2010 election only a few months before hand. obama was toxic? that's why picketers wanted him there with them right? cause he was toxic? you're utterly ridiculous. also, how was interviews in support of them supposed to be helpful if obama was so toxic that showing his face with picketers would've sunk them? edit: gringostar, why have you been peddling bullshit? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-klonsky-phd/president-obama-where-are_b_827511.html quote:“There’s a bully pulpit there that the president has, and it needs to be used, I don’t think you can turn the cheek on this one.” — Rep. Raul Grijalva (D., Ariz.), a co-chairman of the House Progressive Caucus. dems were begging president obama to get more involved, and he ducked the fight. you really didn't learn anything from your hillary permatoxx did you? Condiv fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 22:02
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TheScott2K posted:That is some pretty god drat low hanging fruit and every Democrat near a mic would do well to make the phrase "Trump Pay Cut" their new slogan. if only they did this during the campaign!!!
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Nov 22, 2016 22:03
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Trabisnikof posted:Estimates are 20 million Trump voters will see an immediate pay cut. Looks like that overtime rule is going into effect at the start of next month. They'll get it for a couple of months plus however long it takes to get repealed. Nice optics there, guys.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:04
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Business Gorillas posted:if only they did this during the campaign!!! Ah but see before the election Trump said he just wanted to adjust the rules for small businesses not repeal it. So "Trump Pay Cut" would get a pants-on-fire rating from politifart
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Nov 22, 2016 22:06
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Trabisnikof posted:Ah but see before the election Trump said he just wanted to adjust the rules for small businesses not repeal it. So "Trump Pay Cut" would get a pants-on-fire rating from politifart *takes off cowboy hat and starts stomping on it while screaming BERNIEBROS*
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Nov 22, 2016 22:07
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Joe-Bob posted:Looks like that overtime rule is going into effect at the start of next month. They'll get it for a couple of months plus however long it takes to get repealed. Nice optics there, guys. Spoiler: What is going to happen is that wage theft will still occur because employers know it will be repealed. They are DOL regulations, so they can do it on day 1 and employees are not going to risk their jobs over an extra $150 when they will be losing it anyway.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:08
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Trabisnikof posted:What if I told you he tried but the media and public didn't care? "democrats should have done X" "they did do X" "they didn't do it hard enough!" "they did it pretty hard" "well it wouldn't have mattered if they had done X anyway"
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Nov 22, 2016 22:09
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Business Gorillas posted:if only they did this during the campaign!!! You're right but we still need to look forward now to some degree. Making his lovely record stick to him is essential in opposing Trump in 2018 and 2020.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:10
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Business Gorillas posted:*takes off cowboy hat and starts stomping on it while screaming BERNIEBROS* No one mentioned anything about Sanders or his supporters. Why must you constantly try and derail a nice conversation (this time about the challenges of calling out Trump when he lies) with an attempt to start another fight over the primary?
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Nov 22, 2016 22:10
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oh my mistake, i mistook the tone of your post and thought you were making a joke just for future conversation, the site is actually "politifact" and not "politifart"
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Nov 22, 2016 22:14
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Condiv posted:uh, no. things still matter, just not the things you thought mattered.  Fishmech gona fishmech.Condiv posted:obama was toxic? that's why picketers wanted him there with them right? cause he was toxic? you're utterly ridiculous. They were already sunk, or did you miss the part where Walker campaigned on loving unions and won? Again: Gringostar posted:Why would Scott Walker reverse course on something he campaigned on when he was beholden to the Koch's who just handed Obama a huge defeat by astoturfing the tea party movement just because Obama showed up and walked with protesters?
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Nov 22, 2016 22:14
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Gringostar posted:Why would Scott Walker reverse course on something he campaigned on when he was beholden to the Koch's who just handed Obama a huge defeat by astoturfing the tea party movement just because Obama showed up and walked with protesters? an outpouring of public support bolstered by the president may have forced his hand. why are you pretending obama was toxic and couldn't help? oh yeah, you're trying to make excuses for him
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Nov 22, 2016 22:15
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iospace posted:They're still dying. The brand is toxic. The people who voted for him can't afford to stay there, and the people who have the money to are staying away. Except for all the diplomats and other foreign interests who think it can help them curry favor with the vain orange rear end in a top hat. Oh, and the fact that Trump's very clearly going to be keeping close with his kids who will run his business while having full access to all the information and influence of the most powerful person on the planet. Trump's family is about to have the 4-8 most profitable years imaginable. Madkal posted:So what's the most likely outcome for Trump from his supporters when they realize that he didn't carry out any of his promises like: He'll blame Democrats and others, the base will accept it, and he'll win reelection when Democrats run someone boring as hell and millions don't vote because of sweeping voter suppression over the next 2-4 years. Maybe if the Dems can run some (white) salt-of-the-earth candidate with Candidate Obama levels of charisma they'll turn these people against Trump but you're talking about people who by and large just want to hear easy and hopeful lies far more than difficult truths. Venuz Patrol posted:the democratic plan was to set up high scale midwestern infrastructure projects across the nation to provide jobs to struggling rural neighborhoods while also significantly improving their livelihoods. republicans killed these projects because they don't think it's the government's job to help people. the white progressive movement does not have an explanation for how their midwestern infrastructure projects would get around this issue. And Democrats didn't hammer this, or speak about it much (if at all) during the election. Because Democrats are determined to be utterly incompetent.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:16
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Business Gorillas posted:oh my mistake, i mistook the tone of your post and thought you were making a joke I'm serious politifact smells like poo poo.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:16
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