|
The only real explanation for Jasper's behavior I can come up with that is even remotely satisfying is that it isn't the fact that Maya died that bothers him; it's that his friends killed her. Death is a fact of life, but this is the first time Jasper has really experienced what he feels to be a betrayal, and basically every member of Skaikru that he likes or admires had a hand in it. His sudden disillusionment comes from feeling like everything he knew about his friends was upended. Which is why he's relatively nice to Raven: she had nothing to do with it. Even more than that, I think Mount Weather changed the way Jasper looked at the world. They mention in one of the episodes that Jasper has watched a lot of old movies, and it's not unreasonable to assume that his worldview was informed by those movies. Being relatively young, Jasper believed in a world of good guys and bad guys, where the good guys win and the day is saved. Furthermore, he saw himself as a heroic protagonist, and was all geared up to Save The Day and Get The Girl. Remember, at that point, Jasper had already Saved The Day at least twice; once by blowing up the bridge and once by firing the rockets. His view of himself as a hero wasn't that unreasonable. But this time, things went differently. He didn't save the day, and the girl died horrifically, killed by the "good guys" along with hundreds of other innocents to save a few dozen of their own. His friends were complicit in mass murder and he failed completely. They are not who he thought they were, and neither is he. In one moment, his entire worldview was shattered. And so, with nothing to replace it with, and no support network (at least, not one that he could stand) to fall back on, Jasper plunged headlong into the twin -isms of alcohol and nihil. That's the only reading that really makes sense to me.
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2016 22:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 18:38 |
|
|
The thing is, while you can come up with explanations for why Mount Weather was a big deal for Jasper, the real problem is the type and magnitude of the reaction. If Jasper's primary motivation was anger at his friends over a perceived betrayal, for example, why would he become suicidal? There's also the fact that, regardless of whatever theories we make up, the show repeatedly and explicitly tells us that Jasper is acting this way as a reaction to Maya's death. Period. Less than 30 seconds after we first see Jasper in Season 3, Monty flat-out says "Maya's death broke him." I think the most ironic thing about this is that if Maya had survived the S2 finale, it actually would have been much more plausible to have a character be really broken up by what happened at Mount Weather. Because I'd say that "I watched 90% of everyone that I had ever met get melted by people that I had repeatedly risked my life to help" beats even "I was raised under the floorboards and then thrown in jail for being born" in the Tragic Backstory Contest. INH5 fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Aug 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
Oh, I agree that no amount of post-facto justification will make what happened this season good. This is just the seasoning that allows me to swallow the lovely dish I've been served. I watched Glee for five of the six years it cursed the airwaves. When it comes to mental gymnastics justifying baffling character choices, I'm loving Olympic level. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
Alie was never superintelligent. She was deeply flawed from the beginning Her solution to overpopulation wasn't some ingenious plan, it was to just bomb the earth and hope some people would make it through. When she realized the powerplants were melting down, her solution was to turn all the people of earth into computer programs so they could live on in servers while their bodies died. She's just brute forcing everything, not actually solving anything and you can see that in her robotic demeanor as well, she's very simple in her ways and often looks completely surprised through her BEEP BOOP appearance when she come across something she doesn't understand fully Zzulu fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Aug 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2016 09:51
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:Alie was never superintelligent. She was deeply flawed from the beginning Basically, the Machine would kick ALIE's rear end. I was rewatching Season 1 recently. Does anyone remember those goddamn flashback lens flares? Seriously, in almost every ARK flashback, there are constant screen-eating lens flares for no goddamn reason. It's really distracting. Most of the time there isn't even a visible light source. It's like whoever was editing that day discovered a lens flare setting on AfterEffects and wanted to show everyone the cool new trick he found.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
Spergatory posted:I was rewatching Season 1 recently. Does anyone remember those goddamn flashback lens flares? Seriously, in almost every ARK flashback, there are constant screen-eating lens flares for no goddamn reason. It's really distracting. Most of the time there isn't even a visible light source. It's like whoever was editing that day discovered a lens flare setting on AfterEffects and wanted to show everyone the cool new trick he found. Yeah, that was really bad, and I'm glad that they stopped with that. ---- My thoughts on Season 3 as a whole: This isn't the worst TV show season that I've ever seen, but it is a significant step down in quality from the first 2 seasons. I'll start with the good stuff, and there were good things about the season. Most of the cast did a great job wtih the material that they had to work with. Eliza Taylor did a good job with some very intense scenes this season. Isaiah Washington was great as a megalomaniacal villain who honestly thought that he was doing the right thing. Michael Beach managed to elevate Pike's lackluster material into compelling scenes at times, and really shined when he was given a decent script to work with. Richard Harmon continued to impress, making Murphy likeable and fun to watch without ever seeming OOC or inconsistent with his portrayal in earlier seasons. But the real standout is Lindsey Morgan. She faced enormous challenges as an actress this season. She effectively had to play 3 different characters: normal Raven, chipped Raven, and ALIE directly controlling Raven's body. Lindsey did a phenomenal job with each of these roles and knocked all of her scenes out of the park. She deserves to end up with an Emmy someday. There are good moments throughout the season. Most of the action scenes are well done and exciting. I like the car singing scene in the first episode (and I love the detail of Raven hanging Finn's pendant above the dashboard). This show has always done caper plots well, and the schemes to overthrow Pike and destroy Jaha's backpack are no exception. Raven pointing out everyone's bullshit in 2x11 was a real treat. Most of Murphy's scenes were good. But there are also serious problems. The biggest issues are with the plotting. Like I've said in my episode reactions, the pacing is out of wack. Normally in a serialized TV show, a season will start off relatively slow and then speed up as it continues. This season does the opposite. The early episodes burn through plot points at a frantic pace, then during the middle episodes it slows down to a reasonable clip, then during the later episodes the plot starts dragging its feet as much as possible, padding out the runtime with filler, pointless detours, and false victories. All sorts of problems are created by this. During the early episodes things change so rapidly that the viewer isn't able to get aquainted with the characters and setting, and there isn't enough time to develop character motivations and establish plot points. The late episodes, meanwhile, are a chore to watch, as the characters run around in circles trying and failing to stop the Big Bad, only to have an attempt finally succeed when it comes time for the finale. There are other problems with the plot. Way too much of the story is driven by events that only happen because the script says so. Pike gets elected Chancellor offscreen, because the script says so. This somehow makes him dictator, even though previous Seasons have shown that the Chancellor's power is checked by the rest of the Council, because that's what is written in the script. Arkadia is in danger of running out of food in a year and then in a week because the script says so. Ontari turns against Murphy and accepts the chip after a brief conversation with two complete strangers because the script says so. Jasper takes the chip offscreen because the script says so. These problems spill over into the characters. I've already spilled plenty of ink on how Bellamy and Jasper were mishandled this season, so I won't repeat myself. But I honestly think that among the regulars, only Raven and Murphy had genuinely good stories this season. Clarke runs around in the wilderness for an episode, then gets captured and brought to Polis, then inexplicably becomes Skaikru ambassador, then does a bunch of political stuff which is rendered totally pointless when Ontari becomes Commander, then comes around to save the day at the end. Monty joins Pike's army for no onscreen reason, then defects because he doesn't like going against his friends, then kills his Mom twice, and after that does basically nothing except help stop chip!Jasper and randomly hook up with Harper, none of which adds up to any kind of coherent character arc. Abby and Kane have some good moments scattered throughout the Season, but most of the time have very little to do. Lincoln sits around Arkadia doing almost nothing for 9 episodes before being executed for basically no reason. Octavia has some good stuff in the middle of the Season when she is trying to warn the Grounders about Pike, but once Lincoln dies, she becomes just another angry and grieving 100 character. Which ties into another problem with this season: the tone. One of the things that I most disliked about the S2 finale was the relentlessly GRIMDARK and depressing tone outside of the Jaha and Murphy scenes, and this continued into Season 3. The number of massacre and torture scenes is increased to the point where they all start to blur together and lose all impact. By the end, virtually everyone is emotionally broken, an rear end in a top hat, or both (including Murphy, who stands above the rest by being a likeable rear end in a top hat). I can't recall a single time anyone other than Murphy made a joke. Even the cinematography and color grading are tweaked to make everything look drab and grayish, a stark contrast to the vibrant color pallette of Season 1 and most of Season 2 (after rewatching the early Season 2 episodes, I finally figured out a major reason why the "Knocking on Heaven's Door" scene in the S2 finale felt "off" to me: it is much more desaturated than the Camp Jaha scenes of previous episodes). I recently rewatched Season 1, and it honestly feels like a completely different and much better show (after the first 2 episodes, of course). It is more character driven, the plotting is tighter, and there is much less reliance on contrivances to drive the story forward. Sudden new elements, like the acid fog, tend to complicate the existing plot rather than creating a new one. There is also a much broader tonal range. Season 1 has some really dark stuff like a 12 year old girl killing Wells and then herself, but it also has Jasper's Anti-Grounder Stick and Monty barging into Finn and Raven's tent while high to rant about the moon and tides. Unity Day, is a good candidate for the darkest episode of Season 1. It includes a terrorist bombing that kills children, the Grounder/100 peace talks failing spectacularly, and ends with the implied death of everyone on the Ark. But that episode also has a scene where the entire cast gets drunk on Monty's moonshine and plays Quarters. I think these lighter moments are important. Not only are they enjoyable in their own right, but they make the darker and tragic moments that much more powerful. Death and destruction have no emotional impact if the viewers have no reason to care about the characters and/or the world. If everything sucks, everyone is a jerk, and things only get continually worse as time goes on, then why should I care about any of these people? The question I keep asking myself is, "what happened to this show?" You can blame some issues on Behind the Scenes messiness like Alycia Debnam-Carey only being available for a few episodes and backstage drama resulting in Lincoln getting killed off early, but the problems run deeper than that. Looking at IMDB, there were some significant shake-ups in the staff going into Season 3. Bruce Miller was co-executive producer for the entirety of the first 2 seasons, and Lina Patel was a staff writer for the entirety of Season 2, but they both left after Season 2. But on the other hand, it is clear that these problems didn't suddenly pop into existence at the start of Season 3. Finn in Season 2 had similar characterization problems to Bellamy and other characters in Season 3, though they weren't quite as bad, and I'd argue that the Mount Weather parts of the S2 finale are as poorly plotted as any S3 episode, in addition to the aforementioned tonal issues. We'll probably only find out exactly what happened long after the series finale airs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Spergatory posted:Oh, I agree that no amount of post-facto justification will make what happened this season good. This is just the seasoning that allows me to swallow the lovely dish I've been served. I watched Glee for five of the six years it cursed the airwaves. When it comes to mental gymnastics justifying baffling character choices, I'm loving Olympic level. As someone who has probably watched at least the few first episodes of everything remotely related to the word "sci-fi" on TV made since 2000, my tolerance for "OK this is total bullfuckingshit" is high too indeed. And season 3 was still better then a good 90% of TV sci-fi I've seen so I'm happy enough. On individual stuff though Bellamy was still in top 10 worst character treatments I've ever seen INH5 posted:But the real standout is Lindsey Morgan. She faced enormous challenges as an actress this season. She effectively had to play 3 different characters: normal Raven, chipped Raven, and ALIE directly controlling Raven's body. Lindsey did a phenomenal job with each of these roles and knocked all of her scenes out of the park. She deserves to end up with an Emmy someday. Also agree with this EDIT: Also agree with the whole post really DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Aug 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2016 20:16
|
|
|
INH5 posted:The question I keep asking myself is, "what happened to this show?" You can blame some issues on Behind the Scenes messiness like Alycia Debnam-Carey only being available for a few episodes and backstage drama resulting in Lincoln getting killed off early, but the problems run deeper than that. Looking at IMDB, there were some significant shake-ups in the staff going into Season 3. Bruce Miller was co-executive producer for the entirety of the first 2 seasons, and Lina Patel was a staff writer for the entirety of Season 2, but they both left after Season 2. But on the other hand, it is clear that these problems didn't suddenly pop into existence at the start of Season 3. Finn in Season 2 had similar characterization problems to Bellamy and other characters in Season 3, though they weren't quite as bad, and I'd argue that the Mount Weather parts of the S2 finale are as poorly plotted as any S3 episode, in addition to the aforementioned tonal issues. We'll probably only find out exactly what happened long after the series finale airs. That's also why I rarely point blame at the writers (usually the easiest excuse), who are just following the lead of their boss. It's the showrunner you should judge or criticise. They're in charge of the ship and if they don't like a script they will just send it back for another draft or hell, rewrite most of the thing themselves until they like it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
I enjoyed this season quite a lot. The AI trying to take over was fun though I wish someone at some point would have had some sort of discussion with the A.I before the very last episode when Clarke finally asks it some questions The very end was obviously borked up in editing though, no way was the shot of Pike getting stabbed and the girl walking off supposed to be the real ending originally
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2016 22:02
|
|
|
This show just appeared on Netflix here. I am just watching the first episode. This supposed to become good eventually? All I see right now are a bunch of teen retards.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:47
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:This show just appeared on Netflix here. I am just watching the first episode. This supposed to become good eventually? All I see right now are a bunch of teen retards. Give it at least 3 or 4 episodes. I think 3 is the magic number where the tone shifts. It goes on to become much less about teen retards and more about one teen in particular committing genocide. More than once. 
isaboo fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:56
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:This show just appeared on Netflix here. I am just watching the first episode. This supposed to become good eventually? All I see right now are a bunch of teen retards. The show turns very quickly, all of what you're seeing is build-up to things going lord of the flies more believably.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 01:00
|
|
|
It really is a good subversion of the usual teen fiction "the kids fix everything while the adults bumble around" format. And the usual CW format, for that matter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 01:28
|
|
|
Any info on s04?
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
CW is premiering some stuff super late so it'll probably hit around the same time as iZombie (in April.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
I guess I have to sit the first few episodes out. First impression wasn't exactly the best, given that they're jettisoned against their will to what they were taught to be a nuclear waste dump, but as soon the hatch of that space garbage can opens, they turn into inbred mouthbreathers with no regard or concern of the situation they're in or how they're going to survive. Instead, a lovely tribe gets formed. Hope that sort of nonsense isn't a thread through the whole series, for the sake of spinning drama.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 02:36
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:This show just appeared on Netflix here. I am just watching the first episode. This supposed to become good eventually? All I see right now are a bunch of teen retards. At first, its about teen retards. Then it becomes about teen retards who pay for their stupidity. Then it becomes teen retards slaughtering and getting slaughtered. They're always kinda retarded, but the show ends up being good.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 02:41
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:I guess I have to sit the first few episodes out. I think it's on episode 2 or 3 where everything changes dramatically.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 03:50
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:I guess I have to sit the first few episodes out.  Please continue to post while you watch more, it's the best to watch someone's reactions!
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 03:52
|
|
|
Also they do bring in the adults more and more as main characters as the show goes on.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 03:56
|
|
|
I thought it was garbage for at least the first 6 episodes. I gave up on the show at that point, but gave it another chance when it can on Netflix and it definitely improved after that. I don't think I would really say it's "good" until season 2, but the back half of season 1 does get better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 04:09
|
|
|
Show gets good in episode 3 (or maybe it's 4) when Murphy tries to council a little scared girl and the resulting fallout goes full on Lord of the Flies. The Genghis Clarke stuff doesn't really come up until later. But yeah, the first handful of episodes are almost nothing like the rest of the show. Keep posting impressions!
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:Show gets good in episode 3 (or maybe it's 4) when
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
Murphy Did Nothing Wrong  e: I do have to acknowledge that the first episode is pretty drat horrible, with the 'We're back, bitches' line from Octavia and all that poo poo. It really does get a lot better. Also, make sure to pay attention to all of the background kids. The show does a good job of gradually pushing some of them forward into semi-main-character status (the ones that don't die horribly, except when they get credits and then die horribly anyway  )
WarLocke fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Nov 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
I actually think the show made the first few episodes intentionally different tone-wise, since the sudden shift from  to  played a big role in getting people hooked.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
I thought it was initially because the show was following the plot of the YA book it was based on, but the show ended up doing its own thing. I never felt the need to track down the book(s) so I may be wrong.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 23:05
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:I actually think the show made the first few episodes intentionally different tone-wise, since the sudden shift from I almost think they did it for the benefit of the network, who was expecting a new teen YA show where a bunch of hot kids get separated from their parents and have sexy drama. I bet the network had no idea that the parents would remain main characters and in leadership positions, or that we'd have dialogues on the morality of literal vampirism to survive as a species, the AI apocalypse, etc
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2016 05:42
|
|
|
Astroman posted:or that we'd have dialogues on the morality of literal vampirism to survive as a species, the AI apocalypse, etc Something that doesn't get brought up enough, but I love that each season of the show is doing a riff on a different supernatural / horror monster, only through a technological lens. Reapers are zombies. The Mountain Men are vampires. Allie is demonic posession. Makes me wonder where season 4 could go. (censor barred for the new person)
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2016 06:43
|
|
|
Werewolves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2016 03:34
|
|
|
Astroman posted:Werewolves. How do you do SF YA CW style werewolves though?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2016 04:40
|
|
|
As shirtless as possible, usually.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2016 05:00
|
|
|
Kwyndig posted:How do you do SF YA CW style werewolves though? Nanotechnology?
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 00:05
|
|
|
Koalas March posted:Nanotechnology? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJvOxFhVNbQ
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 05:50
|
|
|
Rocksicles posted:As shirtless as possible, usually. Also lots of dirt and grime. For this show, anyway. Wereclarke 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
Casually watching this in the background, when nothing else is on the playlist. Am at episode 5 now, where they want to kill those 300 people. I guess it's just lovely plot logic, because culling people to extend their air for few months, after hanging up there for almost a hundred years, makes no loving sense. Go to loving Earth, since you're dead anyway. Also this "privileged" bickering in earlier episodes. Last I remember is that they all were in prison. Some privilege.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2016 22:35
|
|
|
No ones knows Earth is safe for them to come down because they sent the kids down to see if they would die. Then the kids get the bright idea to disconnect their bracelets tracking them. Of course if you're back up in space you're probably thinking kids are just succumbing to radiation poisoning or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:Casually watching this in the background, when nothing else is on the playlist. Am at episode 5 now, where they want to kill those 300 people. I guess it's just lovely plot logic, because culling people to extend their air for few months, after hanging up there for almost a hundred years, makes no loving sense. Go to loving Earth, since you're dead anyway. Been a while, but wasn't the few months to fix their Life support systems? IE, 300 die, the rest live on until earth is safe?
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2016 00:42
|
|
|
That blonde chick's dad said they were FUBAR.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2016 01:48
|
|
|
Sober posted:No ones knows Earth is safe for them to come down because they sent the kids down to see if they would die. Then the kids get the bright idea to disconnect their bracelets tracking them. Of course if you're back up in space you're probably thinking kids are just succumbing to radiation poisoning or something. I donno, if you were one of the volunteers to get dead'd in order to preserve life support for the rest of the ship a few more months, and they had the ability to send more people to Earth, it'd be under strong consideration to opt for "might die horribly, but might also live!" instead of "will definitely die slowly to suffocation while sad music plays".
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2016 02:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 18:38 |
|
|
xeria posted:I donno, if you were one of the volunteers to get dead'd in order to preserve life support for the rest of the ship a few more months, and they had the ability to send more people to Earth, it'd be under strong consideration to opt for "might die horribly, but might also live!" instead of "will definitely die slowly to suffocation while sad music plays". Yeah but there's limited means of getting people down there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2016 04:33
|
|
