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Main Paineframe posted:I can't see mincome being popular among people who bitch about welfare because it gives their tax dollars to lazy layabouts who don't have the respectable work ethic to go get a job on their own. Nor, for that matter, would it be popular among the people who bitch about immigrants taking their economic opportunities. I realize the usual response is "mm-hrm, actually literally all progressive positions poll well, therefore we are objectively right and the masses are just being misled by the right-wing conspiracy", but how many "mincome for everyone" polls clarify that everyone includes "yes, even the minorities you think are lazy"? like I literally just said that mincome isn't going to poll well even among its recipients. it's not mainly about heaping abuse on the other (it's still a little about heaping abuse on the other), it's about a total lack of faith that a system that people have spent their entire lives with and never once seen to be meaningfully answerable to them or work to their interests is suddenly going to transform into Santa Claus because some clique of well-fed bougies who look basically the same as the 'bad' clique of well-fed bougies and go to the same exclusive parties gets pushed to the fore of the public trough. The default assumption is that anyone in power is motivated mainly by self-interest, and that any promise of something for nothing is a scam that will be reneged on or a Trojan horse for a payoff to some third party who'd negotiated a deal on the DL with the listener left to foot the bill.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:29
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Pollyanna posted:I just want to see this election get even more insane. At this point, why not go all the way? What've we got to lose? In a shocking turn of events, it's revealed that the DNC and RNC both hacked voting machines to steal the election from Jill Stein.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:30
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HannibalBarca posted:That's just in one county though. Feingold lost statewide by more than Clinton. At the county level, you're talking sample sizes that are small enough (relatively speaking) for all sorts of weirdos to rear their heads. I think we're on the same side? I just find it interesting/unusual how that voter breakdown looks even in the bizarre second-twist case where the 3000 phantom votes were Democratic stuffing.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:30
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Niton posted:I think we're on the same side? I just find it interesting/unusual how that voter breakdown looks even in the bizarre second-twist case where the 3000 phantom votes were Democratic stuffing. sorry, I'm tired and I've sort of lost the plot. whatever our disagreement is/may be, you're probably right. if we are disagreeing.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:32
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Is this really what the answer comes down to? If the majority is going to get conned we might as well con them for the good of everyone. I tried going over to /r/the_donald and posted "Hannity vs Ryan: ‘Draining the swamp’ means more powerful House. Disloyal Republicans want the swamp for themselves. Shameful! ✔” twice. It got 8-10 upvotes and a “No it doesn't Ryan. It means getting rid of greedy people like you.” comment. I tried it first with the BuzzFeed article, but AutoModerator deleted it because "BuzzFeed ... has been identified as a severely anti-Trump domain." That was fair. I tried hitching an anti-Ryan comment to the recent upwelling of "Jeff Sessions can't compare to Robert Byrd" posts thinking I couldn't make things any worse. I got told that ABC, Time Magazine, and Fox News should be linked only from archived sources in order to avoid giving the "alt-left" money. I gave up after none of these posts got to the front page, but I think that if I kept making charts linking keywords to the amount of upvotes per user online, I could have done better.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:34
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Fitzy Fitz posted:You hacked her, you cheated her, you stole her election. Does this mean we'll end up with Zombie-Trump encased in a suit of armor bashing peoples heads in on alley walls? I mean, I'm not really holding out hope that this is really a drat thing and it is reeking of the 2000 hysteria as mentioned previously. But holy poo poo the pall over this election...
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Nov 23, 2016 01:37
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Absolutely nothing is going to come of this supposed voting machine problem.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:45
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Condiv posted:i still hate clinton and she really doesn't deserve to be president. but america doesn't deserve trump either lmao the gently caress it doesn't
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Nov 23, 2016 01:45
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Maybe something could have at one point, but every single Democrat has already rolled over.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:46
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Niton posted:Irrespective of anything else, that is a large discrepency between Clinton and Feingold voters. Who are those people? BernieBros
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Nov 23, 2016 01:47
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If you seriously think that a recount is going to give the election to Hillary I would suggest you start brushing up on your long-distance hiking and marksmanship skills because uhhhhhhhhh
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Nov 23, 2016 01:47
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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yeah, the republicans would just use their playbook from 2000, gum up the works and run out the clock on any recount.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:49
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Instant Sunrise posted:yeah, the republicans would just use their playbook from 2000, gum up the works and run out the clock on any recount. the real kicker here is that there's not even a recount being called for here per se, it seems that they're alleging some sort of strange infosec breach that flipped voting machine totals. Which is gonna be drat near impossible to prove without a smoking gun.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:51
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Instant Sunrise posted:yeah, the republicans would just use their playbook from 2000, gum up the works and run out the clock on any recount. or even the bush v. gore tactic where the us supreme court issued a stay on the recount, then decide that since the recount wouldn't be done in time, to certify the previous total.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:51
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galenanorth posted:I tried going over to /r/the_donald and posted "Hannity vs Ryan: ‘Draining the swamp’ means more powerful House. Disloyal Republicans want the swamp for themselves. Shameful! ✔” twice. It got 8-10 upvotes and a “No it doesn't Ryan. It means getting rid of greedy people like you.” comment. I tried it first with the BuzzFeed article, but AutoModerator deleted it because "BuzzFeed ... has been identified as a severely anti-Trump domain." That was fair. I tried hitching an anti-Ryan comment to the recent upwelling of "Jeff Sessions can't compare to Robert Byrd" posts thinking I couldn't make things any worse. I got told that ABC, Time Magazine, and Fox News should be linked only from archived sources in order to avoid giving the "alt-left" money. I gave up after none of these posts got to the front page, but I think that if I kept making charts linking keywords to the amount of upvotes per user online, I could have done better. I'll be honest, I kinda wondered about the efficacy of Meme wars and winning the battle of agitprop, but I don't think it's that valuable. Meme wars have an inherent age slant on them, and most of the younger population already has their head screwed on at least somewhat right anyway. I don't think you will win many allies you don't already have. I think you can beat them by just organizing and doing actual politics as a unit. A reddit campaign to tie up your representatives' lines to force sway on an issue is much more effective than trying to out-meme people who think that propaganda is truth. I think we have a lot more allies we can make without having to con the rest in, but we aren't looking at the right places. I'd wager you'd have a lot better chance winning more allies by volume if you went to some sort of Abrahamic religious forum (especially a christian one) and learned how to debate and reason by their standards (Hint: The Bible wouldn't have many kind things to say about Trump).
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Nov 23, 2016 01:51
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I wonder, how many Trump supporters feel personally betrayed that she is letting Hillary off and his position on most of his other stuff is relaxing already and he hasn't even taken office yet? I guess what I'm asking is, of the people who voted for him, how many people actually, from their heart, believed the things he said? I've been wondering this since the general election started.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:53
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infinitely more likely than the presidency getting torn from trump: dems handing over NC.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:53
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https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/801226924156719104
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Nov 23, 2016 01:54
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Good Nate strikes again
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Nov 23, 2016 01:55
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Samurai Sanders posted:I wonder, how many Trump supporters feel personally betrayed that she is letting Hillary off and his position on most of his other stuff is relaxing already and he hasn't even taken office yet? Quite a few, given a quick glance of places like /pol/ (looking at /r/t_d isn't terribly helpful as reddit's terrible system smothers minority views). But nobody is outright saying "I'm upset," they're all just uneasy at best. Remember that these people bought in to trump and so post-purchase rationalization is hard at work already.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:55
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:like I literally just said that mincome isn't going to poll well even among its recipients. it's not mainly about heaping abuse on the other (it's still a little about heaping abuse on the other), it's about a total lack of faith that a system that people have spent their entire lives with and never once seen to be meaningfully answerable to them or work to their interests is suddenly going to transform into Santa Claus because some clique of well-fed bougies who look basically the same as the 'bad' clique of well-fed bougies and go to the same exclusive parties gets pushed to the fore of the public trough. The default assumption is that anyone in power is motivated mainly by self-interest, and that any promise of something for nothing is a scam that will be reneged on or a Trojan horse for a payoff to some third party who'd negotiated a deal on the DL with the listener left to foot the bill. The problem is that these same people who reject government help because they don't trust it to fix their problems then turn around and whine and bitch about how the government is neglecting them and won't fix their problems. "Help them with their problems" is not useful advice if they actively distrust attempts to help them with their problems and push back against them out of sheer spite.
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Nov 23, 2016 01:56
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Samurai Sanders posted:I wonder, how many Trump supporters feel personally betrayed that she is letting Hillary off and his position on most of his other stuff is relaxing already and he hasn't even taken office yet? Enough of them, for each discrete thing it's impossible to simultaneously believe all the things he said, people picked the ones they liked and the rest were the poo poo just there to snow the rubes Main Paineframe posted:The problem is that these same people who reject government help because they don't trust it to fix their problems then turn around and whine and bitch about how the government is neglecting them and won't fix their problems. "Help them with their problems" is not useful advice if they actively distrust attempts to help them with their problems and push back against them out of sheer spite. Well, yes, if you are incapable of helping people before asking them to blindly trust you for the umpteenth time they've heard that line from campaigning politicians, they're not going to blindly trust you. You are probably, also, actually incapable of helping people even when you've been given power, you're never going to be the godhead imposing your benevolent will with no resistance whatever. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 01:56
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what does this mean
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Nov 23, 2016 01:58
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Pollyanna posted:what does this mean
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Nov 23, 2016 02:01
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Again we're assuming that's the only thing they noticed. Halderman seems to have some serious cred Cyber-security writer at Politico https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/801210272249708548 Also let's remember Russians have already tried hacking into voter registration databases for several states, as reported by Homeland Security (I think it was them that reported it). theblackw0lf fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 02:03
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If you haven't already, now is a great time to start organizing your friends and acquaintances against trumpism. Pick small, specific issues to rally around and don't impose too high of an ideological barrier to enter. Collect contact details and start compiling a list of groups to link up with. I'm telling ya, fellow goons, this is your chance to get people involved in local politics and organizing. I've been doing it since the election and we've already got around 400 normally non-political people rallied up. And I'm an awkward gently caress
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Nov 23, 2016 02:05
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theblackw0lf posted:Again we're assuming that's the only thing they noticed. Michigan has all-paper ballots so that would be quite a trick for Putin to pull off.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:07
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theblackw0lf posted:Again we're assuming that's the only thing they noticed. This is loving pathetic. The big bad Russian bear! Watch out!
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Nov 23, 2016 02:07
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Nov 23, 2016 02:07
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:People who think they have it bad don't really want to hear that anyone else has it worse. In fact they will flip the gently caress out when you so much as hint that might be the case. 
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Nov 23, 2016 02:08
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Why do we keep wondering if hackers changed the vote numbers around when we already have compelling proof that Russian-related state actors hacked the DNC by spearfishing them with e-mails multiple times, dumped them to wikileaks, and then had them dumped onto media outlets? Have people not learned that the war of infosec is a war of dirty laundry not stuxnet tier reactor fuckery.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:09
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I don't think the election was stolen by hacking or something, but it'd be real nice for the legitimacy of our democracy if we enforced even basic cybersecurity controls on our voting machines, IMO
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Nov 23, 2016 02:11
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It looks like the juicy poo poo re: the Trump presidency dumpster fire is gonna be slooooow going. I wish there was more insane poo poo going on. I want to see it collapse like a mother.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:12
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Bullfrog posted:If you haven't already, now is a great time to start organizing your friends and acquaintances against trumpism. Pick small, specific issues to rally around and don't impose too high of an ideological barrier to enter. Collect contact details and start compiling a list of groups to link up with. I'm telling ya, fellow goons, this is your chance to get people involved in local politics and organizing. I've been doing it since the election and we've already got around 400 normally non-political people rallied up. And I'm an awkward gently caress I posted this in the Negrotown thread, and had some really good feedback, so I'm posting it here too: If you are interested in helping to get Keith Ellison the DNC chair position, I'd strongly suggest reaching out to your state's dem progressive caucus assuming they exist where you are. At least here in Michigan, we are planning to rally at the meeting where they are selecting our dnc members, To make it very clear that they better back him when the time comes to vote in February. Barring some major grassroots upsurge for Martin O Malley or Howard Dean, this should be an easy win for us. If you are in the Metro Detroit area, and are interested in getting involved (and possibly getting a position within the state party for yourself) please shoot me a PM so we can talk!
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Nov 23, 2016 02:12
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https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/801210219019673600 https://twitter.com/SimonMaloy/status/801230994305089536
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Nov 23, 2016 02:13
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Man it's gonna be weird to have Ben Carson talking his crazy talk as part of the government.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:14
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Why do we keep wondering if hackers changed the vote numbers around when we already have compelling proof that Russian-related state actors hacked the DNC by spearfishing them with e-mails multiple times, dumped them to wikileaks, and then had them dumped onto media outlets? this is primarily a war being fought on behalf of two 70-year-olds, one who talks about 'the cyber' like it's one of those 80s neon grids full of three-dimensional shapes and the other who leaked state secrets because she couldn't stop loving installing Bonzi buddy and setting her password to "password", by lickspittles not much better informed about anything actually useful
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Nov 23, 2016 02:15
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I'm not sure how much credibility to lend the supposed statements in the NYT interview, but either way Trump isn't relaxing his position on "most of his other stuff", he's giving way on things like Hillary and climate change which aren't central to the agenda he's shaping (Hillary is busted now either way and he can very well believe in climate change while still cutting the regulations supposed to fight it). Symbolic acts like not chasing after Hillary and appointing establishment people like Romney to his Cabinet present him as a reasonable statesman and are a great way of muzzling opposition to his more substantive policies and convincing wobbly centrists to work with him. Theresa May did something similar here in the UK by appointing libertarian opponents of her domestic policies to her Cabinet, and if you want to go all the way with the comparison Mussolini did the exact same thing in the early years of his premiership. That's not to say that Trump isn't a bullshitting demagogue -- he is -- it just means it's no reason to relax or assume he's going to fit into the establishment mould.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:16
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Samurai Sanders posted:Man it's gonna be weird to have Ben Carson talking his crazy talk as part of the government. well, he already declined one position offered by trump, so i'm more looking forward to the "no really i'm not interested leave me alone trump" followed by trump offering carson the vp slot
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Nov 23, 2016 02:17
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reagan posted:This is loving pathetic. The big bad Russian bear! Watch out! Are you suggesting that Russia did not do the things Russia admitted to doing, or merely that bringing it up isn't manly or something?
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Nov 23, 2016 02:17
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