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I was annoyed at the absence of communism in this film. Like, it seems inconceivable to me that communist wizards would think keeping magic secret was anything other than contemptible, and I always wondered what the results of that would be. The idea the only reason someone would want everyone to know about magic was to go "look how much of an Übermensch I am" really didn't sit well with me. Also, I couldn't tell if the parallel between the bank telling Whatshisface Muggleman they weren't funding his bakery and all the wizards saying they'd have to remove all his memories was intentional. They're both going, "hey, poo poo is going to happen to you for reasons you don't understand and which we aren't going to explain", and he didn't really seem to mind for some mad reason. vegetables fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 01:48
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Movie sucked. It felt like it was trying to be 2 movies at once. The structure and overall plot of this movie were all over the place. Also there's like 1 color palette in this movie and it's dark grey/blue and black. I honestly felt like I was waiting for the movie to start, to get over the introductions but we just kept meeting new people and sorta just stumbled upon the plot as the movie went by. I mean Newt's friend is literally a guy he bumps into. And I have no idea why he was tearing up at the end since they barely know each other at all like not that much time had passed??
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Nov 22, 2016 01:54
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Xealot posted:And based on ...The way Graves interacted with Credence screamed sexual and psychological abuse to me... Graves came off as 100% a pedophile. Totally agree, and that creeped me the hell out.
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Nov 22, 2016 02:20
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howe_sam posted:Totally agree, and that creeped me the hell out. In a super real way, too. Ezra Miller killed that scene. There was so much confusion and anger and shame exploding out of him, and he barely spoke. I totally didn't expect a Harry Potter movie to attempt something like that. (And, to be honest, that made Graves/Grindelwald gel better as a villain for me than Voldemort. Voldemort is such an abstracted evil, who's motivated pretty single-mindedly by ambition. It's theatrical and oddly impersonal. Graves came off as a menacing sadist in this genuinely upsetting, personal way.)
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Nov 22, 2016 02:35
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(spoilers for future movies) Albus and Grindelwald could have been the Xavier and Magneto of this franchise but instead of an actor capable of a nuanced and wounded performance like Michael Fassbender we instead have a fat bleach-blonde Jack Sparrow mugging at the camera like Tim Burton is giving him a rimjob out of frame
Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 02:53
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Ok, am I the only one who finds it loving hilarious that the MACUSA is so loving prejudiced against Muggles/No-Maj's that they forbid romantic relationships.... ...but the President is a black woman in the 19-goddamned-20's????
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Nov 22, 2016 08:18
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And that a Lestrange of all people is black. Isn't that family notoriously very racist? At least as it pertains to magic vs. no magic, but I doubt they stop at just that particularly when it is still socially acceptable to be a racist gently caress. That's the thing with the magical society in America. On the one hand it's unusually tolerant for the time period but unusually backwards in others. The government exercises vast amounts of control and post 9/11 style paranoia, but I guess isolation from muggles didn't afford them ideas like the Bill of Rights.
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Nov 22, 2016 08:51
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On not using the Avada Kedavra curse in executions, remember that that requires a singleminded malice to actually work - if some part of you doesn't want the person dead, it will have no effect. The last thing you need is the executioner to be, say, an old colleague who is just doing her civic duty as far as she is concerned but who is about to kill an ex-auror that she seemed fond of OH WAIT! I also liked how Kowalski's story ended. He was allowed to be wiped at his own pace, and after the fact he seemed to retain at least some of the wonder that had developed within him throughout the last few days due to being able to bake bread in the shapes of creatures that may be coming to him now in his dreams  I also liked that even though he didn't remember the legilimens personally he seems to have the inkling that she at least may like him back if he wanted to talk to her someday. He wasn't Donna Noble'd, he retained his development even if he didn't notice the change himself.
BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 09:47
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Yeah, that's a Harry Potter staple, I guess. Actual, literal race is not something anyone cares about, but made-up magic discrimination turns it to 11. I can't even think of a moment where someone's ethnicity is even commented upon. That one evil Slytherin kid who's black still seems heaps down with joining the "mudbloods are garbage" society in the books. It's like in Battlestar where people are racist as gently caress, but gay relationships are normalized to the point nobody says a word. Xealot fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 10:02
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BioEnchanted posted:On not using the Avada Kedavra curse in executions, remember that that requires a singleminded malice to actually work - if some part of you doesn't want the person dead, it will have no effect. The last thing you need is the executioner to be, say, an old colleague who is just doing her civic duty as far as she is concerned but who is about to kill an ex-auror that she seemed fond of OH WAIT! I liked the ambiguity of his ending. Does Queenie's presence undo the obliviate, or does he just vaguely sense that he has a shot with her? Or does she undo it via legilimency?? I like to think its up to the individual viewer.
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Nov 22, 2016 10:27
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Ensign_Ricky posted:I liked the ambiguity of his ending. Does Queenie's presence undo the obliviate, or does he just vaguely sense that he has a shot with her? Or does she undo it via legilimency?? I like to think its up to the individual viewer. If it's doing it against the presidents wishes doesn't that make it Illegilimency 
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Nov 22, 2016 10:45
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got any sevens posted:What curse? Shows/movies involving Colin Farrell tend to disappoint me. I did enjoy the shot of him using the arrest spell and coldly observing from a distance.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:12
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skooma512 posted:And that a Lestrange of all people is black. Isn't that family notoriously very racist? At least as it pertains to magic vs. no magic, but I doubt they stop at just that particularly when it is still socially acceptable to be a racist gently caress. No, there has never been any indication that the pureblood wizards are actually racist against races. Blaise Zabini is an infamous case because a pretty racist segment of the book fandom got really upset when their mentioned-on-one-page husbando was revealed to be black. It honestly kind of makes sense though. The pureblood people are the ones least likely to care about or interaction with non-wizards and so they have fairly little reason to pick up those prejudices. They isolate themselves in their own society with their own things to be lovely about. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 14:29
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ImpAtom posted:No, there has never been any indication that the pureblood wizards are actually racist against races. Blaise Zabini is an infamous case because a pretty racist segment of the book fandom got really upset when their mentioned-on-one-page husbando was revealed to be black. Actually it was because people thought he was a girl based on his name and were mad that they couldn't use the character as a self-insert anymore.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:32
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skooma512 posted:And that a Lestrange of all people is black. Isn't that family notoriously very racist? At least as it pertains to magic vs. no magic, but I doubt they stop at just that particularly when it is still socially acceptable to be a racist gently caress. I'd noticed that too, and mentioned it in an earlier spoilered post. Using the magical community as a modern allegory is clearly appealing, and can definitely be effective, but it's used quite inconsistently. In the last series of films/the books, treatment of Mudbloods/non-humans seems to be fairly clear. It's the nineties, when the unambiguously evil (all white) characters are throwing slurs around and obsessed with blood quantum; and even most of the heroic (all white, if you don't count Kingsley, Dean Thomas, and Cho Chang) characters pay little regard to beings different from them. But here, in the twenties, neither racism nor sexism seem to exist in a subculture of a nation quantifiably more rife with both than today. Yet Newt's compassion for those beings still distinguishes him from the other characters, who blindly see magical creatures as threats with no societal value. The film can't have its cake both ways. It's jarring to think that the wizarding community's so asynchronous with the larger society around them. Maybe it's a limitation of the fact that these stories are being told by real people (first in the late 90s/00s, then in 2016), or maybe there's a more interesting interpretation. I don't know if the following four films will detail how Muggle biases permeated the wizarding world. ImpAtom posted:No, there has never been any indication that the pureblood wizards are actually racist against races. Blaise Zabini is an infamous case because a pretty racist segment of the book fandom got really upset when their mentioned-on-one-page husbando was revealed to be black. True, but I feel this comes into question in the film universe, where every Death Eater/Grindelwald-friend we see is white. Ensign_Ricky posted:I liked the ambiguity of his ending. Does Queenie's presence undo the obliviate, or does he just vaguely sense that he has a shot with her? Or does she undo it via legilimency?? I like to think its up to the individual viewer. Since Newt mentioned that the venom was "particularly good at diluting bad memories" the first time it came up, I assumed he hadn't forgotten Queenie at all, just the stress he experienced going to her house with veins full of poison. So he still knew but couldn't find her. Mameluke fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 14:40
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Mameluke posted:True, but I feel this comes into question in the film universe, where every Death Eater/Grindelwald-friend we see is white. Nah, there are black Death Eaters in the films too. One of them shows up at the Battle of Hogwarts. They're not exactly overflowing with diversity but y'know this is the same film series where a character mysteriously transmogrified from a black girl to white girl when it was time for her to be actually relevant. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 14:50
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ImpAtom posted:but y'know this is the same film series where a character mysteriously transmogrified from a black girl to white girl when it was time for her to be actually relevant. Which one was that?
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Nov 22, 2016 15:50
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howe_sam posted:Which one was that? Lavender Brown. She was played by two different black actresses in the earlier films and then a white girl when it turned out she had a plot-relevant romance with Ron in the 6th book.
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Nov 22, 2016 15:52
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Space Fish posted:Shows/movies involving Colin Farrell tend to disappoint me. He was great in The Lobster this year.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:14
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:He was great in The Lobster this year. Colin Ferrell is generally a very good actor. It's just more-or-less by accident that he finds himself in something good. Charles Dance and Ben Kingsley are like this as well.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:42
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Ben Kingsley rarely bothers to be good. He's just a film whore.
stev fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 20:01
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Colin was great in (but not the best part of) Seven Psychopaths. He was the best part of Daredevil though.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:10
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got any sevens posted:Colin was great in (but not the best part of) Seven Psychopaths. He was the best part of Daredevil though. 
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Nov 22, 2016 22:12
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vegetables posted:I was annoyed at the absence of communism in this film. Like, it seems inconceivable to me that communist wizards would think keeping magic secret was anything other than contemptible, and I always wondered what the results of that would be. The idea the only reason someone would want everyone to know about magic was to go "look how much of an Übermensch I am" really didn't sit well with me. Ensign_Ricky posted:Ok, am I the only one who finds it loving hilarious that the MACUSA is so loving prejudiced against Muggles/No-Maj's that they forbid romantic relationships.... These both make perfect sense of you're familiar with Rowling's Blairite die hard politics.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:45
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I really had a good time watching this, it was by no means a great film but it was good fun. However on an ending related negative gently caress is Depp going to be awful, Grindelwald should not be a grinning, unhinged lunatic, which is exactly what Depp did in his few seconds. Farrell's little monologue before being revealed was Grindelwald, not insane, logical, committed, seemingly rational but completely wrong, the man who Dumbledore once agreed with not a mad villain.
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Nov 22, 2016 23:15
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vegetables posted:I was annoyed at the absence of communism in this film. Like, it seems inconceivable to me that communist wizards would think keeping magic secret was anything other than contemptible, and I always wondered what the results of that would be. The idea the only reason someone would want everyone to know about magic was to go "look how much of an Übermensch I am" really didn't sit well with me. Yeah, it's obviously a problem that's going to permeate the whole setting too. Should we maybe teleport these children out of a warzone NAH MUGGLES MIGHT SEE IT BEST NOT Overall I really enjoyed it, definitely a better piece of cinema that any of the Harry Potter movies. Like 30 minutes too long though. But it was downright bizarre seeing Newt et al being all buddy-buddy with the magic fed right after they murdered a kid. He was clearly being talked down too. US wizards are pure fash.
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Nov 23, 2016 00:18
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StoneOfShame posted:However on an ending related negative gently caress is Depp going to be awful, Grindelwald should not be a grinning, unhinged lunatic, which is exactly what Depp did in his few seconds. Farrell's little monologue before being revealed was Grindelwald, not insane, logical, committed, seemingly rational but completely wrong, the man who Dumbledore once agreed with not a mad villain. Agreed. It's too bad Graves was just a disguise. He was a way more compelling villain. Johnny Depp's just going to go for abstract craziness and that's going to neuter what's interesting about his philosophy vs. Dumbledore's. Colin Ferrell did way more with what he was given. I don't want to defend True Detective season 2, because it's terrible, but Colin Ferrell is unquestioningly the best part of it. He's a great actor when he gets the chance.
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Nov 23, 2016 00:29
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Ending: I loved that Kowalski and Queenie got the ending kiss. The look he gives her at the end reminded me of a video I saw where a guy had lost some of his memory and fell in love with his fiancée all over again. I don't believe in fate, just great matches. Queenie knows he won't remember and she knows she's not supposed to be involved but she just can't help herself. I agree with whomever said it that him being obliviated but retained his character growth was a very wise script choice. The smile that Tina has as Newt boards the boat and the tiny bounce in her step was very heartwarming. gently caress Depp. While I'm very tired of him, I think Tim Burton was responsible for his growth as an actor. Maybe a new franchise will let him show his teeth, as it were. After all Jack Sparrow was an interesting character until Disney squeezed every last drop out of it.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:26
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I came into this movie only ever having watched the films and not knowing who Newt Scamander is or who Grindelwald is or what MACUSA could even possibly stand for or even really having much of an understanding of the Harry Potter universe outside what is explicitly stated in the movies. I literally watched this movie because Colin Ferrell was in it. I thought it was fun. Not particularly good, necessarily, but like someone said earlier in the thread, the charm of this movie is what carries it. The scenes inside the briefcase are extremely fun, especially the first. Ferrell is really good and I am absolutely heartbroken that he is being replaced by a really loving stupid looking Johnny Depp stereotype character. At least from what I can tell. From what I've read from this thread, Grindelwald is supposed to be exactly like what Ferrell was playing and I don't see why he couldn't have just been Grindelwald. But then again, there's still four more movies of this poo poo! Ezra, as always, was also stellar without saying much beyond body language. Also really liked him being the Obscura or whatever because I fully expected it to be the little girl. Speaking of, even if I don't particularly favor having yet another cloud thing as the villain, I thought it looked and sounded absolutely phenomenal in the last bit of the movie. The undulating of the mass was really impressive and better than pretty much every other CGI I've seen. And then there's the scene with Newt and the big bird at the end that looks like literal poo poo. I guess I'm kinda intrigued to see the next one, but I don't suppose I'm particularly interested in where the story goes. Maybe only if we do get the real Graves like others have said. I'd like that at the very least.
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Nov 23, 2016 04:01
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That was a pretty hosed up kids movie. Torturing the weird kid for the whole movie, then getting him gunned down by the magic-feds and everybody shrugs and goes on about their business. Maybe that counts as a subverted trope. Usually the whipped cur gets the redemptive suicide-run on the big bad, but not this time. He's just a whipped cur, then he is dead and nobody cares. Harry Potter had pointlessly cruel parents, but he gets to be the most specialist magic boy in the world. Not so much for this fella. Also, how many gaze-avoiding hunching twitching socially-crippled weirdos do you need in one film? Thinking four or five is past enough. I guess I just don't like magic movies because the plot doesn't matter. Wands are either the worlds least accurate, least dangerous pistols, or they can trivially turn back time on city-wide scales. Except when they can't. There is no consistency in what matters. Slo-Tek fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 04:27
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I really enjoyed this movie, perhaps more than most of the originals. It's quite fun and charming. The actors are very good and focusing on something other than children let's it add a bit more believable darkness to it which is then lightened up by the animals and Kowalski/Queenie. Grindewald being played by Depp was dumb, but whatever he had like 1 minute of screen time. Are they making more standalone HP movies?
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Nov 23, 2016 04:41
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Are they making more standalone HP movies? This is supposedly the first in a 4-5 movie series.
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Nov 23, 2016 04:42
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ImpAtom posted:This is supposedly the first in a 4-5 movie series. You're joking. That's an awful idea. Wait, like jumping around to different characters in this time period or about Grindewald?
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Nov 23, 2016 04:45
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Relentlessboredomm posted:You're joking. That's an awful idea. I don't think anyone really knows but based off how this one went I'm assuming it's basically a stealth prequel for a Gindlewald-based series but I expect Newt Scamander will show up in whatever the sequel is. (Probably something Quidditch based because the other side book is that one.)
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Nov 23, 2016 04:48
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ImpAtom posted:I don't think anyone really knows but based off how this one went I'm assuming it's basically a stealth prequel for a Gindlewald-based series but I expect Newt Scamander will show up in whatever the sequel is. (Probably something Quidditch based because the other side book is that one.) They want to do a multi-movie series based around Grindewald and cast loving Johnny Depp to play the main villain and do it over Ferrell who was loving fantastic? What the hell is wrong with them. Doing another complete series is a terrible idea in general, doing a complete series about another dark wizard is also a terrible idea, doing all of that and then casting johnny loving depp as the titular villain is lunacy.
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Nov 23, 2016 04:54
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As someone who associates Dan Fogler with Balls of Fury and Fanboys, having him in a role where he was actually perfectly fine was a big surprise. Really I think this was two movies. The actual movie about finding fantastic beasts was surprisingly charming and fun, much more so than I imagined it would be. The movie with magic FBI agents and child abuse and a quasi-William Randolph Hearst was much less fun. I wish the movie had been more of the former, and also that the sequels aren't going to be more of the latter.
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Nov 23, 2016 05:07
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Chairman Capone posted:As someone who associates Dan Fogler with Balls of Fury and Fanboys, having him in a role where he was actually perfectly fine was a big surprise. Magic David Attenborough would have been a really enjoyable film. Explore the ecology, coo at the cuteness, gasp at the majesty, etc. What does a fart-rhino do? why is this 6 winged snake different than the other 2(3?) winged snake things shown? Maybe if magical creatures had a niche beyond "Blows up another poor persons house in the 6th identical slapstick scene" they'd have more conservationists.
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Nov 23, 2016 05:24
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This flick was hot garbage and validates my opinion of most Harry Potter fans as the bulk of them seem to be eating this poo poo up as the best thing ever.
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Nov 23, 2016 05:28
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Slo-Tek posted:That was a pretty hosed up kids movie. Torturing the weird kid for the whole movie, then getting him gunned down by the magic-feds and everybody shrugs and goes on about their business. Maybe that counts as a subverted trope. Usually the whipped cur gets the redemptive suicide-run on the big bad, but not this time. He's just a whipped cur, then he is dead and nobody cares. Nah, the tiny scrap of black poo poo drifting away on the wind means he survived. They were gonna make it super explicit in a post-credits scene but didn't
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Nov 23, 2016 06:32
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Slo-Tek posted:Magic David Attenborough would have been a really enjoyable film. Explore the ecology, coo at the cuteness, gasp at the majesty, etc. What does a fart-rhino do? why is this 6 winged snake different than the other 2(3?) winged snake things shown? Maybe if magical creatures had a niche beyond "Blows up another poor persons house in the 6th identical slapstick scene" they'd have more conservationists. That's something I would have loved and what I was expecting but that doesn't really make for a movie. There has to be some central issue or threat. Otherwise it would be a series of vignettes about Newt catching creatures. What we got was unfocused but still pretty fun. Not sure if you were really asking but the blue dragon bird wasn't different than the others. Just that one escaped and grew huge because it had the space to do so. Why they don't grow huge in all the space in the briefcase... magic! Next time I want Newt's Safari where he hears about an extra super rare and endangered animal that fights against his mission. They streak across the country in a magical game of cat and mouse only for Newt to discover that it's not rare, it's lost and the main herd is just really good at hiding or something.
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Nov 23, 2016 06:37
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