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Fullhouse posted:to be fair she did say half of trump supporters, which is probably factually accurate, but man Hillary Clinton of all loving people should have known how that would get spun into a sour soundbite immediately of course she was essentially factually correct, but when has that ever mattered? her job was to win, not to call out injustice at the expense of her own campaign
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Nov 23, 2016 22:24
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little known fact: barack obama won two elections by scremaing "I'M INTERSECTIONAL' at a bunch of iowa farmers
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Nov 23, 2016 22:25
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zegermans posted:I mean the 3rd grade logic that would take offense to that. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be upset if a presidential candidate accused them of a litany of bad things. I mean, hell, people are still going on about the time Trump called illegal immigrants rapists, criminals, and drug dealers. What little children they must be!
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Nov 23, 2016 22:26
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Getting mad at insults is for children, says man afraid of being called a cuck.
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Nov 23, 2016 22:27
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be upset if a presidential candidate accused them of a litany of bad things. I'm saying only a third grader would think that she meant them in her deplorables comment instead of the people yelling "trump that oval office" at his rallies.
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Nov 23, 2016 22:30
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zegermans posted:Nazis don't deserve an apology, they deserve lead and a ditch. She apologized to those who might have felt a part of that statement that clearly, to any rational person, weren't. Yes, the <500 Nazis don't deserve an apology, what about the other 60million people?
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Nov 23, 2016 22:30
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zegermans posted:I'm saying only a third grader would think that she meant them in her deplorables comment instead of the people yelling "trump that oval office" at his rallies. You know what, you're right. That was a really great thing that Clinton said and did not at all add to the impression of her as an out of touch elitist who didn't care about people.
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Nov 23, 2016 22:32
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Vox Nihili posted:of course she was essentially factually correct, but when has that ever mattered? her job was to win, not to call out injustice at the expense of her own campaign I think this is the biggest lesson for me from this election, rhetorically: nobody loving cares if you're right
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Nov 23, 2016 22:34
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Vox Nihili posted:the problem was that she didnt find a group of neonazis and say to them "you guys SUCK" No she didn't. You can criticize how vague and general "half" is. But your post is just buying into the nazis presented narrative
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Nov 23, 2016 22:35
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:No she didn't. You can criticize how vague and general "half" is. But your post is just buying into the nazis presented narrative again, it absolutely doesnt matter what you think she said or meant, what matters is what a bunch of voters thought she said and meant
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Nov 23, 2016 22:37
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Fullhouse posted:I think this is the biggest lesson for me from this election, rhetorically: nobody loving cares if you're right 
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Nov 23, 2016 22:37
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it seriously blows my mind that some people are saying "but their narrative was bad and objectively false! how can you BUY IT?" i dont need to "buy it" or "believe it" or anything to realize that giving them the opportunity to develop a helpful narrative is loving bad campaigning
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Nov 23, 2016 22:40
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Nov 23, 2016 22:45
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Great, now I have bullet holes in my wall and a scorched desk.
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Nov 23, 2016 22:46
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Vox Nihili posted:it seriously blows my mind that some people are saying "but their narrative was bad and objectively false! how can you BUY IT?" People don't remember 2004 lol
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Nov 23, 2016 22:47
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Vox Nihili posted:again, it absolutely doesnt matter what you think she said or meant, what matters is what a bunch of voters thought she said and meant https://www.amazon.com/Words-That-Work-What-People/dp/1401309291 It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear
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Nov 23, 2016 22:47
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Vox Nihili posted:again, it absolutely doesnt matter what you think she said or meant, what matters is what a bunch of voters thought she said and meant Which we don't even know. Unless there's a collection of people siting that as their reason that aren't deplorables and were full trump train already. She could have responded to it better, like everything in her campaign. It might have became a gaffe because she didn't use the response to hammer about the desperate for change crowd and how she'd help them and whatever. But just taking Conway's spin on it and declaring it the truth, or the agreed upon truth, or whatever your point is, is a retarded way to go about it.
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Nov 23, 2016 22:49
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All the people who unironically embraced the label of "deplorable" was a pretty good indicator that it backfired.
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Nov 23, 2016 22:51
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there is no truth
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Nov 23, 2016 22:52
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Which we don't even know. Unless there's a collection of people siting that as their reason that aren't deplorables and were full trump train already. you say that i am "declaring it the truth" but i am doing nothing like that. you are trapped in your polarity bubble and cant see beyond your immediate perspective. sad!
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Nov 23, 2016 22:57
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Vox Nihili posted:you say that i am "declaring it the truth" but i am doing nothing like that. you are trapped in your polarity bubble and cant see beyond your immediate perspective. sad! Would you prefer I used the word "presented" as? You said she insulted trump supporters in general. You didn't say she failed to combat that narrative or people believed that themselves.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:01
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VirtualStranger posted:Two of the UWS residents who opposed this school integration were none other than Samantha Bee and Jason Jones. This is why liberals being for identity politics is bullshit. The second it is inconvenient to them, they drop it. Gays getting married and police not shooting black people don't effect them. Their children attending school with black children do.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:02
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LinYutang posted:I have several friends who went to elite east coast prep schools + ivy leagues and their grieving process is continuing unabated, they are apparently working through their pain by sharing guardian/slate thinkpieces about how Hillary Did Nothing Wrong This is all I've encountered today, too. I've also got some fantastic strawman articles about Bernie being racist because he's now abandoning minorities.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:03
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https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/801544864877989891
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Nov 23, 2016 23:06
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That fuckin guy at 7:30-ish.... "B-but why can't a revolution be comfortable?!" Subjunctivitis has issued a correction as of 23:09 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 23:06
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can't wait for Tatum to show up and post about how the bernie bros are purity testing everyone out of the running
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Nov 23, 2016 23:09
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Hot take: gently caress Israel. Take what land you have and deal with it, stop blowing up the West Bank and Gaza. (tl;dr: two state solution with current borders)
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Nov 23, 2016 23:09
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:All the people who unironically embraced the label of "deplorable" was a pretty good indicator that it backfired. The deplorable thing was unironically one of the smart things she did. I know it's a hot take but one of the things that turned off the base on her was the fact she seemed so willing to embrace Republican dipshits. Trump won on saying evil black muslim mexicans were plotting to rig the election. Riling up the base to maximize turnout by demonizing the enemy is a tried and true strategy. This of course is just one of like 400 examples of the HRC Campaign not being able to craft a plan and follow through resulting in Stronger Together which means nothing at best and "lets cozy up to people who hate us" at worst.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:11
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Which we don't even know. Unless there's a collection of people siting that as their reason that aren't deplorables and were full trump train already. She called half of Trump's supporters deplorables, and then implied that she meant more than half. There's no spin on this, she insulted a big part of the electorate.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:13
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Guy Goodbody posted:She called half of Trump's supporters deplorables, and then implied that she meant more than half. There's no spin on this, she insulted a big part of the electorate. What she actually meant was "gently caress poors."
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Nov 23, 2016 23:13
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iospace posted:Hot take: gently caress Israel. Inshallah
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Nov 23, 2016 23:15
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Guy Goodbody posted:She called half of Trump's supporters deplorables, and then implied that she meant more than half. There's no spin on this, she insulted a big part of the electorate. Trump ran his entire loving campaign on insulting the electorate. You do realize one of Clintons biggest problems is the fact she's perceived as being to hesitant and committee tested? She should have pushed the Deplorable thing hard and said "Trump and his band of deplorables are loving nazi's who want to throw you in camps"
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Nov 23, 2016 23:15
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Venom Snake posted:Riling up the base to maximize turnout by demonizing the enemy is a tried and true strategy. For Republicans. It works for Republicans, sometimes. You could argue that it worked for Democrats in 2006, but it sure as gently caress failed in 2014 and 2016 Democrats want to vote for something, not against something.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:16
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Venom Snake posted:The deplorable thing was unironically one of the smart things she did. I know it's a hot take but one of the things that turned off the base on her was the fact she seemed so willing to embrace Republican dipshits. Trump won on saying evil black muslim mexicans were plotting to rig the election. Riling up the base to maximize turnout by demonizing the enemy is a tried and true strategy. Here's a hot take: you're not supposed to demonize the friends/family/neighbors of the people you need to vote for you. Powercrazy posted:What she actually meant was "gently caress poors." Yep, this is what they heard. my homie dhall has issued a correction as of 23:20 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 23:16
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Pick something and stick to it. Don't want it back, don't cave immediately. And for gods sake stop reaching out to Republicans.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:16
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Guy Goodbody posted:For Republicans. It works for Republicans, sometimes. You could argue that it worked for Democrats in 2006, but it sure as gently caress failed in 2014 and 2016 Then talking about the nature of her attack on the opposition is a distraction because as we've already discussed in this thread a bunch Hillary's big problem was not inspiring people to vote for her.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:20
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Guy Goodbody posted:For Republicans. It works for Republicans, sometimes. You could argue that it worked for Democrats in 2006, but it sure as gently caress failed in 2014 and 2016 You can in fact give people something to vote for while decrying your opponent. If you have a huge image problem with appearing consistent or honest then maybe being frank about your opponents would be a step in the right direction instead of "this is only slightly not okay". One of Hill's biggest problems during the campaign is she kept chasing Republican votes instead of democratic votes. EDIT: It's an extension of the fact that she kept saying everything is getting better or is fine. It turned off people whose economic situation is getting worse and people whose social situation is still garbage. The campaign often came off as nothing but elevator music.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:21
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Guy Goodbody posted:For Republicans. It works for Republicans, sometimes. You could argue that it worked for Democrats in 2006, but it sure as gently caress failed in 2014 and 2016 It worked in 2006, but it was probably the sex scandal that actually won them both houses of congress
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Nov 23, 2016 23:21
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Venom Snake posted:Pick something and stick to it. Don't want it back, don't cave immediately. And for gods sake stop reaching out to Republicans. Find some big stupid positive message and stick to it. Hope and Change. Make America Great Again. Hammer those relentlessly, even if Hillary Clinton says that's idealistic and impossible. That seems to be a winning strategy! Don't reach out to Republicans in terms of policy, do reach out to them by not insulting them.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:21
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Venom Snake posted:Pick something and stick to it. Don't want it back, don't cave immediately. And for gods sake stop reaching out to Republicans. That's fine. I'm down with that. How about : No War but Class War. It has a catchy ring to it, it implies pacifism, and it demonstrates who the enemy is.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:23
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