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Kiwi Blitz: Your devotion to not being an up and out murderer is appreciated, Ben, but I don't think you have the CHA stat to pull it off.
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Nov 23, 2016 09:24
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ConanThe3rd posted:Kiwi Blitz: Your devotion to not being an up and out murderer is appreciated, Ben, but I don't think you have the CHA stat to pull it off. Edit Let's Speak English has now not updated in over two months. I'm glad she's moving on to Professional Artist Things, but I'm gonna miss LSE. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 09:37
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I really hope she does some more LSE like comics here and there. There's plenty of dumb stuff outside of Japan to make comics about.
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Nov 23, 2016 09:40
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Gutter Owl posted:WORDS No sorry, it's actually a really bad comic and the artist behind it is a bit of a fuckhead as evidenced by her saying the queer posters criticising her work in the good webcomics thread weren't the right kind of queer. valeriehoopla posted:hey there. i check this thread pretty often even though i know i shouldn't. it's the worst kind of invasive curiosity, yknow? call it... ten dollars worth of curiosity... Feel free to like it, but understand that it is objectively bad by every metric imaginable.
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Nov 23, 2016 10:40
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anti-magic posted:No sorry, it's actually a really bad comic and the artist behind it is a bit of a fuckhead as evidenced by her saying the queer posters criticising her work in the good webcomics thread weren't the right kind of queer. oh hey, i also forgot they tried to leverage the Orlando nightclub shooting to shame people into not making fun of their awful awful comic
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Nov 23, 2016 10:51
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Daughter of Lilies person is clearly capable of better things (as seen from that crazy underworld), I wish they wouldn't waste their skills on a faux-D&D comic.
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Nov 23, 2016 11:16
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ConanThe3rd posted:Kiwi Blitz: Your devotion to not being an up and out murderer is appreciated, Ben, but I don't think you have the CHA stat to pull it off. I still maintain that Jones is the only person in Kiwi Blitz that is actually going to die before the end of the comic, but Gear keeps trying her damnedest to prove me wrong.
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Nov 23, 2016 12:38
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HorseRenoir posted:There's finally a plot now but it just feels like a generic shonen conflict without any emotional depth to make it potent. The author could've used the past 100 pages to develop interesting and emotionally complex characters but nope Yeah I agree, the characters are incredibly shallow at this point. a few exposition arrows talking about their sexualities and pronouns, and oh, one freaks out at knives. I'm not sure why i'm supposed to care about the community built up around this if I don't care about the individuals. and the protag is some really standard shonen hero stereotype, which could be played up as interesting, but we were able to conveniently start the comic after all of her bad times so we don't really understand or care about how the furry commune unlocked her true self. I'm not invested in her happiness. (And this is as a queer person) Burkion posted:So I started reading Goodbye to Halos because of you fuckers got to the point where the dude was introduced as "Very Con-cerned Gay Lion" and decided nope The comic really overuses the exposition arrows when it doesn't need to. "concerned gay lion" is a perfect example of that. we can tell the character is a lioncatboy already, and he's obviously concerned. you don't go more than 20 pages further before it becomes obvious how gay he is. I get that silly doodle comics on social media sites will put 60 arrows and a notation on something as an extremely-exaggerated joke, but it gets completely superfluous and kind of obnoxious when you're doing a longform story comic and you have the time and space to detail all of that anyway. if you're really concerned about making sure everyone knows the sexuality and pronouns, an updated cast page would be a way easier point of reference for readers, too. Alaois posted:oh hey, i also forgot they tried to leverage the Orlando nightclub shooting to shame people into not making fun of their awful awful comic that's disgusting and I don't get why somebody would lurk on a thread that periodically laughs at their comic if it hurts them that much
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Nov 23, 2016 13:47
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GtH's art is so poor that I often have trouble telling where a character's head is.
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Nov 23, 2016 14:03
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I read through what backlog of GtH there was back when it was last mentioned in this thread, and despite being generally super thirsty for GLBT comics and superficially similar to GtH's protagonist, I just completely failed to resonate with it. It didn't inspire in me a desire to deeply analyze why. Although thinking now,Nuns with Guns posted:we were able to conveniently start the comic after all of her bad times so we don't really understand or care about how the furry commune unlocked her true self. is probably something like the reason.
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Nov 23, 2016 14:09
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Gutter Owl posted:Like, let's gloss over the generic fantasy worldbuilding poo poo for a sec, because I do think it's kinda trite and overlabored and overburdened with exposition. K6BD it ain't. But it's honestly not important*. Folks, myself included, gushed over the K6BD's worldbuilding, but he told us it's the storytelling that's important. It was a wake-up call to me because I saw it as essential as geography when I was putting the cart before the horse the entire time.
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Nov 23, 2016 14:35
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anti-magic posted:No sorry, it's actually a really bad comic and the artist behind it is a bit of a fuckhead as evidenced by her saying the queer posters criticising her work in the good webcomics thread weren't the right kind of queer. I...okay, that was a really embarrassing misstep. Cut the gal some slack, she stuck her foot in her mouth on a horrifyingly awful day. A lot of folks were touchy as gently caress that week. (Also, dudes were reaching real hard to interpret that post as "You're the wrong kind of queer.") Still the politest creator meltdown I've ever seen on the forums. Ain't like she Sarah Zeroed up the place. Nuns with Guns posted:...but we were able to conveniently start the comic after all of her bad times so we don't really understand or care about how the furry commune unlocked her true self. I'm not invested in her happiness. I dunno, I thought it was kinda refreshing to not have another story about watching a queer teen get poo poo on? Like, I figure that's the one Mainstream Gay Narrative we all know well enough that you can just allude to it and assume people get the gist? Like, can we not have a story about a different part of the lifecycle without the requisite weird misery voyeurism? Oxxidation posted:GtH's art is so poor that I often have trouble telling where a character's head is. I'm sorry about your crippling prosopagnosia? That's rough buddy. --- ANYWAY before someone accuses me of being a parachute account or something, uh...poo poo I don't actually know where to go with that. What goon-approved good comics don't already have a splinter thread? Like, this reads like the Poppy, McNinja, and Mary Cagle megathread most days. I really couldn't get into Daughter of the Lillies. I keep getting too distracted by the protag's terminal case of Lars de Souza eyebrow and the mediocre gore to keep up with the boilerplate fantasy plot.
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Nov 23, 2016 17:11
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Don't worry gutter I doubt anyone thinks you're the person who makes Halos Nor cares if you are. Like, if you enjoy it then cool. If you don't, and you have good reasons for it, also cool. No one needs to make anyone else feel like poo poo over a super gay webcomic on the internet in 2016. We have enough poo poo to worry about. Also why don't we talk about O Human Star more because that thing is a treat. No I don't care it's not coming back until December gently caress ya'll
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Nov 23, 2016 17:16
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anti-magic posted:No sorry, it's actually a really bad comic and the artist behind it is a bit of a fuckhead as evidenced by her saying the queer posters criticising her work in the good webcomics thread weren't the right kind of queer. I agree with what she posted
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Nov 23, 2016 17:22
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Burkion posted:Also why don't we talk about O Human Star more because that thing is a treat. No I don't care it's not coming back until December gently caress ya'll Now now, Delliquanti is very busy learning the best ways to eat bugs. (I wanna have faith, but I just dread Meal is gonna be the preachiest poo poo imaginable.)
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Nov 23, 2016 17:24
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Gutter Owl posted:I disagree? From where I'm standing, the stakes seem pretty drat clear and big and well-established. My problem is that Val doesn't actually do any of this in the comic. The main character's old life and backstory is completely glossed over, yet the author also expects you to intuitively know that her old life was really bad even though nothing shown through flashbacks or exposition shows that as the case. But if the author doesn't want to focus on the struggle and instead wants to make a story about building a new life in a queer community, that's fine! But she doesn't do that either. She just skips from "main character is unsure of her own identity" straight to "main character is out of the closet and fully integrated in a queer community" without showing any of the steps in between. Again, the author just glosses over these things but expects the readers to just know what that process is like, so they can still care about the main character's story and her community and what's at stake for her without actually putting in any of the legwork. Obviously for any media targeted towards a niche audience there's going to be certain things left untold that the intended audience is expected to be familiar with, but this is lazy storytelling and it flattens the queer experience into one universal story that all queer people are expected to inherently "know". As a queer man who couldn't directly relate to what was going on in the comic, I found Val's assertion that "this is a queer comic for queer people and if you don't like it it's probably because you're not queer enough to get it" to be really patronizing and insulting. If storytelling isn't the main focus, but telling a detailed, personal queer story isn't happening either, then what's left? A giant in-joke for Val and her circle of friends to point at and say "yeah it do be like that sometimes"? Maybe Val should have just converted this comic into a tumblr RP blog if she wasn't interested in saying anything beyond writing light fluff about her OCs.
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Nov 23, 2016 18:20
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All this is making the comic sound like Queerstional Content which sounds kind of amazing in a popcorny  comic sort of way
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Nov 23, 2016 18:34
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Speaking of comics bogged down by fetish poo poo and fluff, I think I might've finally hit my limit with El Goonish Shive. Like the only really interesting things that comic actually had going for it was one character actually figuring out his gender identity beyond "transformation for funsies" and the fantasy plot of "some people want to reveal magic and others want it hidden, who will succeed?" was actually really intriguing with good points on both sides. But now the answer seems to be "magic will change itself rather than be discovered, stop trying" and "that cool gender and sexuality poo poo won't be talked about for another two years". So all that intrigue, like everything in EGS, just went to building up more things/get an unsatisfactory twenty page exposition rant.
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Nov 23, 2016 18:42
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nerdman42 posted:Speaking of comics bogged down by fetish poo poo and fluff, I think I might've finally hit my limit with El Goonish Shive. Jackard fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 19:09
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Poison Mushroom posted:All this is making the comic sound like Queerstional Content which sounds kind of amazing in a popcorny Normally I would insist that comparing anything to Questionable Content is uncalled for but, yeah, this is fairly on the money. The way Goodbye to Halos skips completely over the matter of the protagonists transition and integration into the queer community so that they can hurry along to the REAL POINT, gay relationship drama, really left a bad taste in my mouth. And yeah I also completely forgot since last time that this came up that they tried to use the Orlando shooting as leverage to make their godawful point, jesus gently caress them categorically.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:11
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Gutter Owl posted:I'm sorry about your crippling prosopagnosia? That's rough buddy. This conversation prompted me to binge GtH and I'm more or less on board, but for all the things it does right the art does periodically poo poo the bed. I'm actually super into this kind of art style, but if you're going to use flats with no outline or shading you really really need to stay on top of the contrast to keep it readable and GtH just doesn't do that. Here's a random page of Cucumber Quest for comparison:  Pay particular attention to the middle row. The left-middle panel is a great demonstration of what not to do for general illustration purposes: it's busy, it's flat, and there's a lot of borders between similar hue/similar value. Most of the details of the panel get drowned out, and that's OK because it's done very deliberately for effect. It's a blurry mess of inchoate frustration intended to merely act as a backdrop for the baker's outburst. Compare to the panel next to it, which uses a similar palette (creating continuity) but tweaks all the colors for readability. In fact, the brown baker is drawn with a different palette in every panel she appears in. Gigi carefully picks every color every time it appears, there are no fixed palettes. Also, check out the massive foreground shading going on in the first and last panels. Cucumber and Almond pop like crazy in a way that they never could if Gigi shaded everything in the same ambient lighting. Contrast with a random page from GtH at about the same point in the comic's run:  Everything uses the same palette from panel to panel, with no dynamic coloring at all. And by "everything uses the same palette", I pretty much mean "everything uses the same palette as everything else." These 4 colors are 4 completely distinct objects on this page, several of which actually overlap:  Something like 80% of the real estate on this page consists of either a slight variation on this brownish-pink color or a slight variation on a whitish-beige color. It's entirely possible to do cool stylized things with such a limited palette, but it serves no point on this page except making it unnecessarily difficult to parse. Like, the knife Fenic's using is literally the focal point of the entire scene and there's not a single panel where it sharply stands out--it blends into the background and into the blue magic poo poo or just gets lost among the general beigeness. Meanwhile, Fenic's yellow sash shows up randomly in a corner of one panel and pops like crazy. Why? Yellow is Fenic's accent color but calling attention to it in this particular spot on the page (and only this spot) is a pointless distraction. Then you reach the bottom panel and switch from looking at Fenic's hands and arms to looking at chair legs that are almost exactly the same shape and color. As with anything the art does tend to get better as it goes, but then you get to the current scene and the artist decides that what she needs in her ultra low contrast comic that plays fast and loose with shape and color is a character with extra arms and eyes, because that's not at all visually confusing. I'm not trying to tear GtH apart--it's a cute comic and I'm glad it is a thing that exists, warts and all. The art seems pretty experimental and I applaud the artist for having the guts to try. But the fact remains it's pretty obvious that she's just not there yet, especially when you try to stack it up against heavy hitters like CQ.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:40
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i didn't even see the knife until you pointed it out
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Nov 23, 2016 19:54
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in a way we are all bad webcomics, but the worst webcomic of all... is my sweet can
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Nov 23, 2016 19:56
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Avshalom posted:in a way we are all bad webcomics, but the worst webcomic of all... is my sweet can in that it has four panels
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Nov 23, 2016 21:40
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nerdman42 posted:Speaking of comics bogged down by fetish poo poo and fluff, I think I might've finally hit my limit with El Goonish Shive. If you're looking for something deep or meaningful, EGS is the wrong comic to look for. The comic had its run at deeper drama a while back, and since then, the author made clear his intent to "bring the silly back" and the comic followed through. I feel like there's less fetish stuff these days too, the comic shifted more towards this other grand plot about magic oozing all over Moperville. It's not any of the grand plots that were set up earlier in the comic about aliens or secret organizations or alternate dimensions, but it's something. A lot of false starts and loose threads are what you can expect from a comic that has been running for 14 years since the author was in High School, he changed as a person and wanted to take the comic in different directions. He'd be way better served if he would just end the comic and start a new one with more freedom to build something new, but I guess some authors just can't bring themselves to kill their babies. I'm actually a little hopeful for the comic now for the first time in a long while, because this whole will of magic thing has finally brought together so many disparate loose plot threads that maybe a real narrative will form out of this whole mess. Now that Tedd's dreams have been shattered, maybe he'll actually be motivated to accomplish something beyond wacky transformation schenanigans in the background.
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Nov 23, 2016 22:34
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Deprived updated, for anyone that was reading it. No story underneath yet, but she's moving forward.
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Nov 24, 2016 01:13
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I hope her boobs heal
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Nov 24, 2016 01:26
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Gutter Owl posted:I dunno, I thought it was kinda refreshing to not have another story about watching a queer teen get poo poo on? Like, I figure that's the one Mainstream Gay Narrative we all know well enough that you can just allude to it and assume people get the gist? Like, can we not have a story about a different part of the lifecycle without the requisite weird misery voyeurism? I'm all for characters being trans or gay without having to go through "the transition story" or "the coming out" story. Brooklyn nine-nine is a great example of how well that can be pulled off. The problem here is when the comic doubles back to reinforce how important coming to furryland has been to Fenic. to really be invested in that, I think it'd need more of... something. Maybe a longer lead-in to establish how she was before so we can see how she's changed? The actual transition could remain a fast montage. Anyone who stumbles across the comic would have background info to fill in the blanks there. Or more buildup of Fenic in her current home that fleshes out both her and her supporting cast beyond the most barebones sterotypes. Or advancing the timeline even further to a point where she's truly comfortable in her skin and has come to terms with all the aspects of her identity. That would change the whole growing up/hero's journey metaphor ofc, but maybe that would be more interesting? As it stand it's in this awkward in-between stage where everything is half established before rushing on to.... something. I'm not convinced whatever this is building to will be worth the haste
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Nov 24, 2016 02:54
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What is going on with that face in panel two. Picasso?
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Nov 24, 2016 03:37
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Jackard posted:What is going on with that face in panel two. Picasso? Birthmark. ...okay special magical fantasy birthmark with a dumb name, shut up.
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Nov 24, 2016 04:02
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Poison Mushroom posted:I'm still enjoying it, but am kind of slowly coming to expect more and more that whatever Thistle's big face-secret is, it's gonna be either super cliche or super boring, probably both. I'm just kind of assuming it's "she is an angel/nephilim."
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Nov 24, 2016 04:18
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She's a Jojo under the mask
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Nov 24, 2016 04:37
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I tried reading GtH just now and made it to around where the color comparison post above came from before giving up. If I hadn't heard that it was a queer comic in this thread I would have thought the character in the prologue and the one in the comic proper were two different people. I could barely follow the prologue anyway, the sense of time passing is communicated extremely poorly. I got that time was passing between each letter, but in the span of like five pages the protagonist goes from being scared out of their mind to snuggling in bed with the bunny dude. It felt like it was supposed to be a matter of weeks or months but apparently it's like five years??? The page with the big text telling me the main character was a ~HUGE LESBIAN~ is around where I started getting the feeling I wasn't going to be able to keep going. A webcomic having to tell me something that basic about a character instead of just loving showing it in the story is a big loving red flag
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Nov 24, 2016 05:00
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Wrist Watch posted:I tried reading GtH just now and made it to around where the color comparison post above came from before giving up. Sorry but if you don't enjoy GtH then you're No True Queersman (or Queerswoman as the case may be). The author said so 
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Nov 24, 2016 05:28
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Green Intern posted:I'm just kind of assuming it's "she is an angel/nephilim." Because drat that would actually be a really cool twist on the formula that would use Cliche Christian Theology Shortcuts in an actually interesting way. And now that I've said that I've either spoiled the twist or set myself up for huge disappointment.
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Nov 24, 2016 05:38
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Captain Oblivious posted:Sorry but if you don't enjoy GtH then you're No True Queersman (or Queerswoman as the case may be). The author said so Don't hurt your back, reaching like that.
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Nov 24, 2016 05:41
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Gutter Owl posted:Don't hurt your back, reaching like that. But you're getting scrappy.
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Nov 24, 2016 05:45
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Gutter Owl posted:Don't hurt your back, reaching like that. The quote's literally on this page, I didn't have to go far
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Nov 24, 2016 05:46
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Does anyone here still read Sluggy Freelance? It finally feels like its all building towards a finale, and the run of one of the oldest webcomics will be over, and the author has basically confirmed that we are in the last stretch... although it might take a year or two.
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Nov 24, 2016 06:31
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I'm not falling for that. People have been saying that for years
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Nov 24, 2016 06:47
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