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giving in to the GOP's demands for your entire presidency is a good idea because,
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Nov 24, 2016 23:38
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GlyphGryph posted:I look forward to Fulchrum defending the third way Establishment Democrats on all the incredible progress they made ending the drug war a decade from now, lol. lol if you think the drug war will ever end
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Nov 24, 2016 23:39
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Concerned Citizen posted:lol if you think the drug war will ever end I dont really see that stopping him from taking credit for it.
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Nov 24, 2016 23:44
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:giving in to the GOP's demands for your entire presidency is a good idea because, Because they are demanding things you actually want but cant say out loud without alienating parts of your base?
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Nov 24, 2016 23:45
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GlyphGryph posted:Because they are demanding things you actually want but cant say out loud without alienating parts of your base?
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Nov 24, 2016 23:49
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So if your argument is that no worthwhile change cones from politicians, but from the public opinion and the groups trying to change it, I assume your conclusion is that economic populist groups on the left just loving suck and it's all their fault? No? Amazing how that works in your brain.GlyphGryph posted:Because they are demanding things you actually want but cant say out loud without alienating parts of your base? It's so lucky for them that progressives decide not to dirty themselves and their purity by voting in midterms and putting the dems inevitably in a spot where they have no alternative but to do that. Anime Schoolgirl posted:someone needs to find the exact point in time neoliberalism took hold in the democratic party and erase the people responsible for it Don't bother, I've got the answer you'll come to - "as soon as anything bad happened and we need to scapegoat someone".
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Nov 24, 2016 23:58
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Fulchrum posted:So if your argument is that no worthwhile change cones from politicians, but from the public opinion and the groups trying to change it, I assume your conclusion is that economic populist groups on the left just loving suck and it's all their fault 
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Nov 25, 2016 00:00
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punk rebel ecks posted:Lol at people who actually believe the Democrats gave a poo poo about LBGT rights. They only switched the second it was inconvenient to them to not to hold that stance. Once national polls hit 51% for gay marriage, every Democrat just happened to become "enlightened" or at best "evolved". i was genuinely surprised when this was a controversial opinion during the election
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Nov 25, 2016 00:11
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Fulchrum posted:So if your argument is that no worthwhile change cones from politicians, but from the public opinion and the groups trying to change it As an LGBT person from a deep blue state who had to deal with the fact that the Democratic party did not just fail to support our rights but actively fought against them until the courts told them to get hosed... no, not at all. There were plenty of worthwhile changes pushed by many decent politicians, and the main obstacle to getting them passed was the lovely old Democrats who represented the old establishment wing and honestly did not like gay people working together with third way democrats who didnt give a poo poo about gay people and were worried supporting them might cost them votes which was bad politics when you can count on them to vote Dem anyway. Accomplishments were generally made despite the party leadership, not because of it. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 00:40 on Nov 25, 2016 |
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Nov 25, 2016 00:36
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:someone needs to find the exact point in time neoliberalism took hold in the democratic party and erase the people responsible for it When whoever it was booked Bill Clinton to make his really overly long speech at the 88 Dem convention
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Nov 25, 2016 00:59
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:someone needs to find the exact point in time neoliberalism took hold in the democratic party and erase the people responsible for it It began winding up in the mid '70s and cemented itself with Bill Clinton's victory..
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Nov 25, 2016 01:13
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punk rebel ecks posted:Lol at people who actually believe the Democrats gave a poo poo about LBGT rights. They only switched the second it was inconvenient to them to not to hold that stance. Once national polls hit 51% for gay marriage, every Democrat just happened to become "enlightened" or at best "evolved". Well it's either that, or what we're about to get for the next 4-8 years
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Nov 25, 2016 02:02
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Establishment dems have ways loved LGBT rights and been amazing champions of it, just like they've always been big proponents of institutional racism in the criminal justice system, and supporting workers rights and taking care of the environment. Psyche.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:32
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:someone needs to find the exact point in time neoliberalism took hold in the democratic party and erase the people responsible for it When we tried to run an ultra progressive and lost 49 states.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:35
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Yes we all know the story about how the DNC hosed McGovern to prove a point
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Nov 25, 2016 03:36
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lol Democrats started the shade about his VP getting therapy
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Nov 25, 2016 03:38
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Fiction posted:Yes we all know the story about how the DNC hosed McGovern to prove a point Never, ever, ever your fault is it? The problem is always everyone else.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:41
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https://twitter.com/PRyan/status/801905790311399428 The problem is turkey fryers
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Nov 25, 2016 03:42
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Fulchrum posted:Never, ever, ever your fault is it? The problem is always everyone else. Lol this is rich coming from you fulcrum
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Nov 25, 2016 03:45
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Socialists and progressives are responsible for all of the good things the Democratic party has done, and they happened in spite of-not because of- the party structure.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:46
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Fiction posted:Socialists and progressives are responsible for all of the good things the Democratic party has done, and they happened in spite of-not because of- the party structure. What about the eugenics movement
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Nov 25, 2016 03:48
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I said good.
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Nov 25, 2016 03:49
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eugenics and cocktail parties are now good or something
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Nov 25, 2016 03:51
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zegermans posted:When we tried to run an ultra progressive and lost 49 states. Remember when Republicans ran a far right wing populist and lost in a landslide with Goldwater? Never thought I'd link this site in a non-ironic way.
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Nov 25, 2016 04:17
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the biggest indicator of a presidential candidate's success in an election is whether or not they belong to the incumbent party and how the economy is doing. the policies of the candidate probably fall in somewhere between 4th and 6th most important to the results. donald trump's victory lent a ton of credibility to this theory so the left can tell moderates to politely gently caress off for a while
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Nov 25, 2016 04:25
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Fiction posted:I said good. Eugenics was a progressive invention.
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Nov 25, 2016 04:36
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I routinely swap out progressive and abortionist for fun as well.
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Nov 25, 2016 04:38
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zegermans posted:Eugenics was a progressive invention. Lol, this loving guy.
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Nov 25, 2016 04:45
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zegermans posted:Eugenics was a progressive invention. This is pretty weak.
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Nov 25, 2016 04:53
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zegermans posted:Eugenics was a progressive invention. I think you'll find that eugenics is bad and progressivism is good, therefore it is impossible for eugenics to ever come from progressivism since something bad can never come from good . 1. 1. - this is a fact.
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Nov 25, 2016 05:06
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Eugenics traces it's origin to the study of evolutionary science. With that in mind, I think we can easily conclude that evolution, science, and anything that developed from either is evil. Checkmate. *Slams face against red-hot waffle iron*
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Nov 25, 2016 05:17
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Sometimes I think unions are good and free trade is bad, but then I remember how much Bernie wants to bring eugenics back and start questioning it all
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Nov 25, 2016 05:24
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Vox Nihili posted:Eugenics traces it's origin to the study of evolutionary science. With that in mind, I think we can easily conclude that evolution, science, and anything that developed from either is evil. Checkmate. *Slams face against red-hot waffle iron* Wow, you sure managed to show us that a simplistic black and white way of thinking where everything good comes from one place is sensible, by pointing out how dumb it sounds when you claim everything evil comes from it instead.
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Nov 25, 2016 05:25
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GlyphGryph posted:I look forward to Fulchrum defending the third way Establishment Democrats on all the incredible progress they made ending the drug war a decade from now, lol. Really the Dems can go get hosed on this issue, I'm so sick of hearing people defend them on their poo poo with this. They support ruining people's lives over using drugs in their own home, gently caress them. I'm really loving sick of pretending that these people are really on my side and have my best interests in mind, they're not and they don't. There's no legitimate reason to give people criminal charges for drug use whatsoever, absolutely none. MaxxBot has issued a correction as of 05:44 on Nov 25, 2016 |
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Nov 25, 2016 05:30
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Fulchrum posted:Wow, you sure managed to show us that a simplistic black and white way of thinking where everything good comes from one place is sensible, by pointing out how dumb it sounds when you claim everything evil comes from it instead. Again, you're doing the fishmech thing where you ascribe wild claims to another poster without even the slimmest justification. It's pathetic. Aren't you ashamed of yourself?
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Nov 25, 2016 05:42
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Y'all get really salty when the emotionless husks of politicians you idolize get called what they are, huh.
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Nov 25, 2016 05:45
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Vox Nihili posted:Again, you're doing the fishmech thing where you ascribe wild claims to another poster without even the slimmest justification. It's pathetic. Aren't you ashamed of yourself? Yeah, I guess you're right, it's not like he claimed something insanely stupid like that socialists and progressives are responsible for every good thing the Democrats have ever done.
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Nov 25, 2016 05:47
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I said they were the source of every good thing the Democrats have done, which is true. Not that everything progressives and socialists came up with was good.
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Nov 25, 2016 05:50
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Like who do you think pushed for the new deal? Do you think fdr allocated all that money out of the goodness of his heart?
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Nov 25, 2016 05:51
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Fulchrum posted:Yeah, I guess you're right, it's not like he claimed something insanely stupid like that socialists and progressives are responsible for every good thing the Democrats have ever done. If you'd said something remotely relevant to countering that claim, that whole "slimmest justification" thing, you'd have been a lot better off. Instead it just sort of looks like you agree with it, so you had to try to move the conversation somewhere else because thinking it was true made you unhappy. Which probably isn't what you wanted to communicate but hey, maybe it's accurate.
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Nov 25, 2016 05:52
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