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King of Solomon posted:
shifting the goal posts
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Nov 25, 2016 06:28
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We need Jeb!!!!!!
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Nov 25, 2016 06:28
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aside from Clinton somehow winning (she wont) due to a recount, I want Trump's margin of victory to expand dramatically so I can feel smug about stupid Jill Stein
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Nov 25, 2016 06:28
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blue squares posted:aside from Clinton somehow winning (she wont) due to a recount, I want Trump's margin of victory to expand dramatically so I can feel smug about stupid Jill Stein gonna be hard to find 2 million extra Trump votes in a recount
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Nov 25, 2016 06:32
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King of Solomon posted:
This will not matter. Don't get your hopes up.
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Nov 25, 2016 06:32
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HorseRenoir posted:gonna be hard to find 2 million extra Trump votes in a recount I mean in those states, smart guy
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Nov 25, 2016 06:33
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blue squares posted:shifting Literally yes, but they did say from the outset that they estimate a total cost of around $6-7, so it's not surprising, really. Covok posted:This will not matter. Don't get your hopes up. I agree, but it's fun to follow along.
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Nov 25, 2016 06:33
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King of Solomon posted:
The people here that think this recount effort won't end up reflecting badly on Democrats (with Trump and low info swing voters) are fooling themselves. While some people might understand this is an effort by Stein/a Green Party Representative, many will blame "liberals" for being sore losers and hypocrites. Liberals looking bad is bad for the Democratic party.
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Nov 25, 2016 06:36
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Ron Jeremy posted:Yes. It's a piece rate but there's a floor. If you stand around picking your nose, the picker will still make minimum wage. But you won't get invited back the next day. Stoop labor (like berry picking) is absolute murder on the human body (and not so good for the mind either). It is some of the shittiest and most awful work a human being can do, which is why pickers are almost always dirt-poor migrant farmworkers. Yes, the very best pickers can make upwards of $150 for five hours of labor, which is incredible considering the same Driscoll farms in Mexico pay $20 a day (kill me) but earning that rate is incredibly rare and no one is strong enough to maintain that wage for long. Average wage hovers around $15 and that's only because even 50 year old migrant worker grandmas work their asses off in the fields. I have no idea why anyone would come in this thread and try to minimize these conditions or make this seem okay. Dude, you are seriously weird for defending the loving berry industry of all things.
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Nov 25, 2016 06:36
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poo poo, I used to work for a major marijuana dispensary in Denver and trimmed plants. I got fired after one week because I couldn't do ten plants a day. I was able to get to five plants a day by the end of my first week, but that wasn't good enough so they paid me in cash what I was owed and told me to get loving lost.
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Nov 25, 2016 06:40
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Spacebump posted:Lol. there's really not a whole lot you can do with people this media illiterate to make them like you. they're a lost cause anyway
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Nov 25, 2016 06:40
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Spacebump posted:Lol. It's dumb as poo poo but keep in mind that nothing matters friend, our idiot populace can't even remember "grab them by the pussy" 6 weeks into the future, no one will remember this poo poo either.
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Nov 25, 2016 06:46
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I have also worked with manufacturing as an engineer, and you will always need some people. You just need an order of magnitude (or two) less than you used to. Also, manufacturing jobs loving suck. None of them would want their kids to work in manufacturing. Source: talking to hundreds of people over a decade. They hate it. They get poo poo on, get no respect, and are mostly under paid. Their other options are pretty much Home Depot, or poo poo I don't even know. Automation will follow the money. If the service sector is allowed to keep paying its employees slave wages and we have to subsidize them with tips, sure, it's never going to make sense. If they ever win any real rights and minimum wage goes to $15, it's only a matter of time. It only makes economic sense when they get slave wages. It might not be them first. There's plenty of white collar jobs that can and will be automated because they pay higher than slave wages. The only question is when it happens, what do we do? How do you handle having large portions of the population being unable to find work?
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Nov 25, 2016 06:49
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MaxxBot posted:It's dumb as poo poo but keep in mind that nothing matters friend, our idiot populace can't even remember "grab them by the pussy" 6 weeks into the future, no one will remember this poo poo either. And yet somehow they remembered whatever thing Hillary Clinton did in the 90s that made them hate her more than anyone else in politics  How many voters like Bill Clinton but hate Hillary for things that were enacted by him?
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Nov 25, 2016 06:54
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MaxxBot posted:It's dumb as poo poo but keep in mind that nothing matters friend, our idiot populace can't even remember "grab them by the pussy" 6 weeks into the future, no one will remember this poo poo either. Unless  whines about it for 20 years.
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Nov 25, 2016 06:55
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paternity suitor posted:
Rich people dont give a gently caress and there is nothing you or anyone can do about it anymore.
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Nov 25, 2016 06:57
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the black husserl posted:Stoop labor (like berry picking) is absolute murder on the human body (and not so good for the mind either). It is some of the shittiest and most awful work a human being can do, which is why pickers are almost always dirt-poor migrant farmworkers. Yes, the very best pickers can make upwards of $150 for five hours of labor, which is incredible considering the same Driscoll farms in Mexico pay $20 a day (kill me) but earning that rate is incredibly rare and no one is strong enough to maintain that wage for long. Average wage hovers around $15 and that's only because even 50 year old migrant worker grandmas work their asses off in the fields. *shrug* not really a defense. I was just surprised how much the pickers here make. It's an industry ripe (get it) for union action due to the value of skilled workers over scabs and the short picking window. When workers refuse to pick the crop goes to waste. And especially considering the margins, there's plenty of money to raise wages. I'm pretty sure your $15 number is low.
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Nov 25, 2016 07:01
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:and also why all this poo poo about trade that dominated the election has been just total poo poo The giant cliff happens literally at the exact same time as China's accession into the WTO
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Nov 25, 2016 07:02
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Fojar38 posted:The giant cliff happens literally at the exact same time as China's accession into the WTO The recession at the start of the cliff was March-November 2001, China didn't join until December 2001. e: Chinese imports in 2009 was $200b/yr. higher than in 2001, but it's another $180b/yr. higher now than it was in 2009, yet manufacturing jobs rose from 2009-now WhiskeyJuvenile fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Nov 25, 2016 |
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Nov 25, 2016 07:04
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 again, though, we didn't have any loss in productivity during the time that we were hemorrhaging jobs
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Nov 25, 2016 07:18
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anecdotally, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_MEFVx5jM vs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZuwxYdJ7rk it's not like they're firing everybody, but you can definitely notice the number of people-steps cut over the years
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Nov 25, 2016 07:25
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Ron Jeremy posted:*shrug* not really a defense. I was just surprised how much the pickers here make. It's an industry ripe (get it) for union action due to the value of skilled workers over scabs and the short picking window. When workers refuse to pick the crop goes to waste. And especially considering the margins, there's plenty of money to raise wages. Unless you have recent statistics, I would suspect $15/hr is well above average: http://newamericamedia.org/2015/06/thousands-of-farmworkers-in-california-cant-make-a-living.php quote:In 1979 the United Farm Workers negotiated a contract with Sun World, a large citrus and grape grower. The contract's bottom wage rate was $5.25 per hour. At the time, the minimum wage was $2.90. If the same ratio existed today, with a state minimum of $9.00, farm workers would be earning the equivalent of $16.30 per hour. At the end of the 70s workers under union contracts in lettuce and wine grapes were earning even more. Edit: as of 2008, it was $11 quote:Most berry pickers are hired directly by berry growers (rather than through contractors). The average hourly earnings of berry workers were 13 percent less than the average for all crop workers, $10.75 compared to $9.50 in 2008; permanent disability claims data also show that berry workers had lower weekly earnings in the week before their injury than workers in any of the other 13 farm labor risk categories (berry workers are one of 14 risk categories). And that's a survey of above board operators too. That's not accounting pickers being illegally paid less than minimum wage. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Nov 25, 2016 |
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Nov 25, 2016 07:30
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Rexicon1 posted:Rich people dont give a gently caress and there is nothing you or anyone can do about it anymore. I still got a month buddy, so I can still eat the rich.
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Nov 25, 2016 07:34
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Trabisnikof posted:Unless you have recent statistics, I would suspect $15/hr is well above average: And this is why cracking down hard on businesses that hire undocumented workers is actually super bad for those industries and you never saw any support for it from the pre-Trump GOP. However, we are now ruled by the post-Trump GOP. Being pro-business matters less than sticking it to the browns.
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Nov 25, 2016 07:50
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Spacebump posted:Lol. It's 100% liberals and sore loser Democrats, the greens don't even have 100$ to rub together, much less put up this much money.
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Nov 25, 2016 08:29
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It also solidifies his legitimacy because they could have just talked about and hinted at this for years and built up a good fervor over it but that all goes away when the recount comes back and "Whoops, looks like he's legit". It's just a politically stupid move and it doesn't surpise me Jill Stein is involved. Donald Trump is 100% the legitimate President - Elect and soon to be president. People are going to really need to start accepting this.
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Nov 25, 2016 08:39
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paternity suitor posted:I have also worked with manufacturing as an engineer, and you will always need some people. You just need an order of magnitude (or two) less than you used to. Also, manufacturing jobs loving suck. None of them would want their kids to work in manufacturing. Source: talking to hundreds of people over a decade. They hate it. They get poo poo on, get no respect, and are mostly under paid. Their other options are pretty much Home Depot, or poo poo I don't even know. I'm of two minds when it comes to service industry automation. It's going to happen, but it's so hard to pull off that it might not happen unless technology advances to humanoid robots or replicants. People like interacting with people, even if it's for the superior-inferior relationship. It's like customer service, no one wants to go through automated self-service even though that will help them and shorten their wait on the phone, they all want to talk to a human even if the wait time is an hour. There's also the ability to upsell and guide customers: how many times has someone supersized their meal at fast food place based off a clerk's suggestion versus pressed a button on an automated kiosk? Or broken out of an indecision loop by a cashier? At the same time, while kiosks will probably never take off, mobile and online ordering have grown. Another thing is that you can't hold machines accountable like you can human being. I was working in a mortgage firm earlier this year and for the first couple weeks, I was stapling cover pages to be filed. These cover pages would then be sent into the warehouse, were they were stored via the reference number and barcode on the cover sheet. This would definitely be a job for a machine, collating all these forms and sheets out, but one of the important things was that I was signing each form as a record. If I double-stapled two mortgages under a single cover sheet, it would be "losing" one, no one would ever find it until they pulled the other file. And losing a promissory note is like the loan never existed, so I was double careful to go back through my finished work or pause whenever something didn't match up. A machine processing 1000 something mortgages, with an error rate of 1%, would lose something like 10 mortgages, likely never to be found. At $25,000 a pop, that's a quarter of a million loss due to error. Now, who's responsible for that loss? If it was by hand, it would be my fault or whoever stapled those papers. With a machine, who knows? I think people here are also forgetting that temporary work is a thing, especially for white collar jobs.
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Nov 25, 2016 09:02
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blue squares posted:shifting
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Nov 25, 2016 09:04
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Young Freud posted:Another thing is that you can't hold machines accountable like you can human being. I was working in a mortgage firm earlier this year and for the first couple weeks, I was stapling cover pages to be filed. These cover pages would then be sent into the warehouse, were they were stored via the reference number and barcode on the cover sheet. This would definitely be a job for a machine, collating all these forms and sheets out, but one of the important things was that I was signing each form as a record. If I double-stapled two mortgages under a single cover sheet, it would be "losing" one, no one would ever find it until they pulled the other file. And losing a promissory note is like the loan never existed, so I was double careful to go back through my finished work or pause whenever something didn't match up. A machine processing 1000 something mortgages, with an error rate of 1%, would lose something like 10 mortgages, likely never to be found. At $25,000 a pop, that's a quarter of a million loss due to error. Now, who's responsible for that loss? If it was by hand, it would be my fault or whoever stapled those papers. With a machine, who knows? As for the actual question, who cares who's "responsible"? What does that mean?
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Nov 25, 2016 09:18
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Maybe the Greens can have a GoFundMe to provide funding to rebuild the DNC in a real paying it forward scheme first started by moronic Aaron Sorkinites on Twitter when a strip mall was savagely fire bombed resulting in dozens of corrugated plastic yard signs melting.
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Nov 25, 2016 09:19
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DACK FAYDEN posted:As for the actual question, who cares who's "responsible"? What does that mean? I imagine it would matter quite a lot for insurance purposes.
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Nov 25, 2016 09:22
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DACK FAYDEN posted:As for the actual question, who cares who's "responsible"? What does that mean? Legally liable.
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Nov 25, 2016 09:22
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Chwoka posted:Legally liable. This. When it's possible to lose $1 million dollars through a mis-stapled cover sheet (because the $25k was a number I pulled from my rear end, the mortgages ranged from shotgun shacks in Tennessee to apartments in New York and condos in Miami), you want to know who loving made that error.
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Nov 25, 2016 10:01
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Young Freud posted:This. When it's possible to lose $1 million dollars through a mis-stapled cover sheet (because the $25k was a number I pulled from my rear end, the mortgages ranged from shotgun shacks in Tennessee to apartments in New York and condos in Miami), you want to know who loving made that error. this is also why self-driving cars are still a while off even if you don't consider the current state of the tech. who takes responsibility when the self-driving car gets into a wreck and is at fault? the thing that made the mistake is software designed by the manufacturer, so they'd be at fault usually, but do you think car companies are gonna want to accept the transfer of legal liability from their customers to themselves?
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Nov 25, 2016 11:35
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Young Freud posted:This. When it's possible to lose $1 million dollars through a mis-stapled cover sheet (because the $25k was a number I pulled from my rear end, the mortgages ranged from shotgun shacks in Tennessee to apartments in New York and condos in Miami), you want to know who loving made that error. lol if you think paper is going to stay around forever and everything won't just at some point stored digitally.
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Nov 25, 2016 11:36
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Condiv posted:this is also why self-driving cars are still a while off even if you don't consider the current state of the tech. who takes responsibility when the self-driving car gets into a wreck and is at fault? the thing that made the mistake is software designed by the manufacturer, so they'd be at fault usually, but do you think car companies are gonna want to accept the transfer of legal liability from their customers to themselves? Hasn't Benz already said they'll take on all liability from accidents with their self-driving cars in the future? quote:Volvo, Google, and Mercedes-Benz have now all said that they will accept full liability if their self-driving vehicles cause a collision.
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Nov 25, 2016 11:41
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shrike82 posted:Hasn't Benz already said they'll take on all liability from accidents with their self-driving cars in the future? it's one thing to say you'll take responsibility, it's another thing to do it if the companies are honest about taking responsibility when their tech fails then self-driving cars are going to take a while longer since the crash rate is still too high.
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Nov 25, 2016 12:02
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MaxxBot posted:It's dumb as poo poo but keep in mind that nothing matters friend, our idiot populace can't even remember "grab them by the pussy" 6 weeks into the future, no one will remember this poo poo either. As long as someone else is spending the money it's worth it just to not have to hear conspiracy theories about Russian hacks for the next eight year s.
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Nov 25, 2016 12:04
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Condiv posted:if the companies are honest about taking responsibility when their tech fails then self-driving cars are going to take a while longer since the crash rate is still too high. This is the correct way to do it. The controls engineering community is very conservative about new tech and for good reason.
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Nov 25, 2016 12:14
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BabyFur Denny posted:lol if you think paper is going to stay around forever and everything won't just at some point stored digitally. lol if you think you can wave a digital document in court and expect it to mean anything. Anything that involves money, has legal weight, notarized and has personal signatures will always have a hard copy in case a challenge comes up in court. While digital documents have their advantages, it's bad for legal claims because of security and ease of forgery. That's the whole reason places like where I worked had such processes to store and find documents as well as armed security and airlocked fire doors, it's in case there was a legal challenge, they can pull the file and slap it down in front of a judge or a lawyer (or, more likely, a forensic accountant). shrike82 posted:Hasn't Benz already said they'll take on all liability from accidents with their self-driving cars in the future? That's interesting. I'm guessing that it's a combination of faith in their systems and them hoping that the accident rates will be far less than human-driven vehicles. Of course, they will find some way of sticking it to the owner, such as a faults in maintenance, or the other driver.
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Nov 25, 2016 12:15
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