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So, I realized something midway through Episode 2 while i was binging to catch up from being late to the party: I did know from the start (and naturally it's audible in any video where someone says her name) that Umineko's Beatrice is pronounced as a Japan-ized version of the Italian pronunciation, not the English. The thing that knowing that took a while to click into place for me, though, was that a Beatrice was one of Dante's guides in the Divine Comedy. I have no idea if there'll be any significance to this deeper than the thematic stuff we've had already - the game itself has labeled the Meta-Battler and Beato stuff as being set in Purgatory and there definitely seem to be Heaven connotations to the Golden Land - but I thought it seemed worth bringing up. ArashiKurobara fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Nov 26, 2016 |
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Nov 26, 2016 21:17
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ArashiKurobara posted:So, I realized something midway through Episode 2 while i was binging to catch up from being late to the party: The ending theme of the anime (AKA YAMI WO KIRISAKU OH DESIRE) is literally titled "The Divine Tragedy" in Italian. It is a very intentional reference.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:30
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oath2order posted:The ending theme of the anime (AKA YAMI WO KIRISAKU OH DESIRE) is literally titled "The Divine Tragedy" in Italian. It is a very intentional reference. Oh yeah I figured it was intentional, I'm just not sure yet exactly how deep the reference will go, since it works even with what we've got just thus far but I would also not be shocked to get way more afterlife shenanigans going on. (I somehow managed to avoid being spoiled on Umineko when all my friends read it as it came out? But I do know that poo poo Gets Crazy and I'm guessing we're still only seeing the tip of the iceberg.)
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Nov 26, 2016 21:37
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Oh it's the Italian pronunciation of Beatrice. I really should have picked up on it. Looking at the video's I really should have realized that. It's actually pretty close to correct as well.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:47
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Holy hell I forgot how well Suzuki does psycho-face. Troll Eva and anti-furniture Rosa look like their faces are practically melting alongside their sanity, honestly. I have to agree that Natsumi's art fits the Umineko tone a little better, though - Higurashi's tone was a little closer to psychological horror so those kinds of expressions meshed a lot better with it.
KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 00:05
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OK, now that I've had a day to sit on all this, I might have a few words regarding things. Keys: -Beatrice says that the servants have master keys, meaning there are five: Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Kuwabara and Gohda -Jessica takes Kanon's key to open Beatrice's door, does not, to our knowledge give it back -Jessica's body is discovered, and her key is found nearby, as is Kanon's master key, leaving four -After Fake-Kanon comes in and kills Kuwabara and the Doc, the rest of the servants go to tell and lock the door, they don't take Kuwabara's key with them, so that's three; K and Docs corpses do a runner -The witches letter has two master keys in it, the ones taken from K and Docs corpses (we think) -Then Rosa collects these three in Maria's handbag, which she kept with her till the end, meaning there were no master keys with which Natsuhi's room could be locked (allegedly). So, When Jessica Kanon were killed, there were four people that could have locked the door; Rosa looked around the room for anyone hiding, and the window was I believe, locked. Then after the Doc and Kuwabara are killed, three could have unlocked the door (Genji, Shannon, and Gohda), but it couldn't have been any of them personally, as they were together. Now, an argument could be made that they weren't in possession of their key the whole time, but we fall into a trap with that line of reasoning: we have no proof that their keys were taken or could have been returned, and the keys to the servants room itself were all in the box. And then after all five are collected, somehow Natsuhi's key was locked in her room... so how were these drat doors locked? Well, one of the ways Natsuhi's room could have been locked is if Krauss possibly had a key to her room; even if the room wasn't shared, he's her husband, and I think she'd be OK with giving him a key. In that case, the key could have been taken from his person just as Natsuhi's key was taken from hers. The other two rooms... are trickier; I can't, at the moment, see how they could have been locked without a master key. But are we sure there are only five master keys for the servants? What about master keys for Krauss, or for Kinzo? The latter is still the owner of the house; am I really meant to believe he doesn't have any way to get around his own home? He apparently does, as he goes on walks all the time. And to be honest, that's all I got for this episodes mystery (no I'm not going into the stupid lightsabers and schoolgirls, I'm just not). So, I'm going to talk about the rest of the chapter instead, AKA "Rosa And Maria Have Awful Broken Live, Oh God." With their abusive relationship and the toxic relationships between the servants and the masters on display, as well as Beato's... what ever you want to call that freak out toward the end that spoke to deep and rending pain, it seems like the underlying theme of this episode is the horror and twistedness abuse inflicts on its victims... who more often than not then spread that abuse to others. It isn't just Rosa that shows this, but Beatrice too... the Murderer in last episode was brutal, but not overly cruel; only just enough to complete the ritual and possibly reuse the corpse or too. But Beatrice? Not only is she as intentionally monstrous and damaging as she can be in killing them, she desecrates the corpses after death beyond reason, often making the ghosts watch... and all the while, continually shoving Player-Battlers face right in her cruelty, heaping abuse ans scorn upon him until he eventually collapses under it. Which brings me to a point: Beatrice won. Unequivocally and completely; Battler was in a failure state until Aunt Rosa's defiance and torture brought him out of it. This begs the question of why Beatrice continue to indulge this, and just declare her victory and run, and it also invites the possibility that Battler isn't alone in this and that the rest of the family might possibly be able to participate. Here's some character notes I have here; I won't do them all because my opinion on most of them isn't really that different. Battler: So apparently, according to the new profiles, Battler is not only a cynic, but a member of the frigging Technocracy? Apparently magic doesn't work on him, but how far does that go: is he able to deny magic so much that it doesn't work in his general area? If so, that would explain why Beato doesn't bust out the lightsabers in front of him: because she can't, because Battler knows that stuff belongs on Star wars. This raises some intriguing possibilities about their duel, because I thought at first they were in the afterlife and Beatrice was just indulging him, but this means there are actual stakes involved. If Battler should win, does that mean he would effectively kill Beatrice's magic- and possibly make it so that the murders never happened in the first place? Gohda: Wow, I'm actually kind of sad I dismissed him so completely last go-around. I mean, he's still a lazy dick, but he defended Shannon and stepped up admirably when things got weird. So he's actually alright  Rosa: See above; I've been talking about her all episode, but I do have to say again that I really do admire Ryukishi07's ability to portray an abusive character that is actually sympathetic and lay groundwork for their possible path to healing without diminishing the horror and damage of their own abuse. I hope her character development in this chapter isn't lost going forward, and that somebody finds a way to reach her and get help by the time this thing is over. Maria: Curiouser and curiouser... she's still all about the Golden Land, but she did not seem to think that goatmen trying to eat her is an appropriate way to get there. And her Creepy Witch side is making a lot more sense this time around, as opposed to just creeping everyone out. Also, in re-reading the episodes, I've noticed something odd: you would think that her aim is to get everyone to accept Beatrice without question, but whenever Battler does something like that (like breaking down in tears this episode, or asking if Beatrice really exists and could have done this last one) , she isn't happy as you might expect- she just stares at him with this odd, almost disappointed look before either shifting to the Witch or offering him "comfort". If she doesn't want people to accept Beatrice or the Golden land, what does she want? I dunno, guys... I feel like we might have misread her character grossly, as either a pawn or victim in this game. Beatrice: Oh god. I suppose I have to talk about this now, since I didn't last chapter, but I still don't want, because she's just so contradictory and galling; whatever theory I have, it just never seems to fit right. I'd been warming to the idea that she was reflective of the people she dealt with and is giving their horribleness and abuse right back, but this episode she revealed something that seemed uniquely hers: her rant to Shannon about love that has no analogue at all to any character we've seen so far. So she has her own will; is she then a dark fairy, invited by the inhabitants to grant wishes in the darkest, most monkey-pawish way possible? That doesn't feel right either, because if she were some eldritch being from beyond humanity, she wouldn't have such a keen understanding of how cruel she's being, or revel in it. Moreover, Strawberry Shortcackle last update made the implication that Beatrice is trying to be as monstrous and horrible as possible in order to provoke Battler to keep challenging her, and god help me, she's so GOOD at this that even if I entered this LP with a belief in magic, I would have thrown it away just to challenge that grinning, hateful face... so probably not a fairy. What then? Someone pointed out the significance of Beatrice's name last episode; is she then a helpful spirit or guide trying to help the Ushiromiyas through their suffering, or a demon here to punish them all for their greed and violence? Why come down on the kids and servants, who are victims of that abuse? Is this her revenge on Kinzo for his betrayal and trapping her here? Why doesn't she focus on him instead of Battler? To grant Maria's wish? She did not like the goatmen. Is she just looking for an adversary? Or is this all just for kicks?
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Nov 27, 2016 02:28
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resurgam40 posted:But are we sure there are only five master keys for the servants? What about master keys for Krauss, or for Kinzo? The latter is still the owner of the house; am I really meant to believe he doesn't have any way to get around his own home? Just to make your life a teensy bit more complicated, a reminder:  That aside, this is another excellent post.
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Nov 27, 2016 02:59
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ProfessorProf posted:Just to make your life a teensy bit more complicated, a reminder: To elaborate, Beatrice made it clear that there may have been other master keys in episode 1, but for the purposes of Episode 2, she's removed any keys that may or may not have existed, artifically limiting that variable for the purposes of trolling Battler. There's no need to consider how Kinzo got around his mansion. Beatrice has made it clear the question doesn't matter.
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Nov 27, 2016 03:17
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resurgam40 posted:Strawberry Shortcackle I snorted coffee at this, and it was painful.
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Nov 27, 2016 03:27
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ProfessorProf posted:Just to make your life a teensy bit more complicated, a reminder: Argh, I know!  Freaking witch, messing around with things... So, if there are no other master keys, unless someone thieved one and put it back without those three noticing, I'm pretty well stumped about how the rooms were locked. Just like I'm stumped at how a woman being force-fed food made from her siblings and child is supposed to teach me about love... Suppose I should get used to that.
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Nov 27, 2016 04:30
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resurgam40 posted:but this means there are actual stakes involved.  Kya ha ha ha! Of course actual stakes are involved! Because magic definitely exists! Any idiot could see that! (Sorry for the dumb joke. You made a very good post.)
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Nov 27, 2016 04:31
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the metaworld, it should be noted, is a mostly pants-free society
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Nov 27, 2016 04:53
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resurgam40 posted:Strawberry Shortcackle let's all just take a moment to appreciate this fantastic name for Lady Lambdadelta
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Nov 27, 2016 04:55
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Did you give yourself at avatar resurgram or did someone else? Because it's highly apropos
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Nov 27, 2016 04:58
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I think at this point any theory that doesn't account for Beato, Lamba and Bern having some power beyond what is normally considered human possible is silly. However this does not make them witches. Magic is just another way to explain things that don't make sense, to wave away lighting and fire. A gun is as magical as any demon to anyone whose never seen or heard of one before. The doctors of our day would be considered wizards of the highest caliber centuries ago. Are we supposed to be believe then, that Beato and her comrades aren't just another type of specialist, seeing and using the world in a way we can't comprehend at this moment? gently caress no. Magic, real magic, has no rules. A wizard can conjure a pillar of flame, or a sea of food, out of nothingness. The "witches" have rules they need to follow, and they can't pull something out of nothing. The candy from the beginning of this episode? Reconstructed. The horrible feast? Created in Beato's realm, a place she more than likely made specially for illusion and trickery. Its stupid to think they aren't using rules we don't have access to, but witches they are not. They're just people who know a lot more about the world than anyone else, and can use that knowledge to horrible effect. Battler needs to figure out that they aren't playing by his rules before he can challenge them In short, all this witch nonsense is bull poo poo and I don't believe it.
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Nov 27, 2016 06:33
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resurgam40 posted:Well, one of the ways Natsuhi's room could have been locked is if Krauss possibly had a key to her room; even if the room wasn't shared, he's her husband, and I think she'd be OK with giving him a key. In that case, the key could have been taken from his person just as Natsuhi's key was taken from hers. I don't think this contradicts any red, but I have to say it's flimsy tricks like this that really make you look like another Battler. Hope you've got something more substantial than duplicate keys pulled out of thin air before you inherit his incompetence too. 
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Nov 27, 2016 06:37
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alcharagia posted:let's all just take a moment to appreciate this fantastic name for Lady Lambdadelta So I'm not emptyquoting about Strawberry Shortcackle, let's also appreciate his insights on Rosa and Maria. I didn't buy your Battleicon, but you deserve it. Wear it with pride.
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Nov 27, 2016 06:45
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mcclay posted:I think at this point any theory that doesn't account for Beato, Lamba and Bern having some power beyond what is normally considered human possible is silly. However this does not make them witches. Magic is just another way to explain things that don't make sense, to wave away lighting and fire. A gun is as magical as any demon to anyone whose never seen or heard of one before. The doctors of our day would be considered wizards of the highest caliber centuries ago. Are we supposed to be believe then, that Beato and her comrades aren't just another type of specialist, seeing and using the world in a way we can't comprehend at this moment? gently caress no. Magic, real magic, has no rules. A wizard can conjure a pillar of flame, or a sea of food, out of nothingness. The "witches" have rules they need to follow, and they can't pull something out of nothing. The candy from the beginning of this episode? Reconstructed. The horrible feast? Created in Beato's realm, a place she more than likely made specially for illusion and trickery. Its stupid to think they aren't using rules we don't have access to, but witches they are not. They're just people who know a lot more about the world than anyone else, and can use that knowledge to horrible effect. Battler needs to figure out that they aren't playing by his rules before he can challenge them Are you positing that all of this witch nonsense is some form of hyper-advantaced aliens?
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Nov 27, 2016 06:48
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oath2order posted:Are you positing that all of this witch nonsense is some form of hyper-advantaced aliens? Nothing that crude. Simply people who know far more about our reality than we do. Possibly even being personifications of different concepts of chance and luck. I do believe that both Lady Bern and Lady Beato stated something to that extent. Powerful people, who know and can use things far beyond what we understand, but not magic. After all, if we go that far we might as well call scientists magicians at the same time. Can anyone here claim to know how an atomic bomb exactly functions, or the exact workings of quantum physics? Most can talk broadly about those subjects, and a few can delve even deeper, but only because that information was given to them by someone who knew more. Wouldn't those sources be "grimoires" and "witches" if science was treated like we're treating the workings of this book? A witch is simply someone who knows a lot about how the universe works, and who knows that better than something born out of it?
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Nov 27, 2016 06:58
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Honestly, the non-red parts of what the Stakes wear is just a callback to the outfit of the waitresses of a certain restaurant in HIgurashi that was relatively popular among guys for some reason. Regardless of whether there's a deeper meaning behind any of the various callbacks in Umineko or not, Ryukishi07 simply likes putting them in his works.alcharagia posted:let's all just take a moment to appreciate this fantastic name for Lady Lambdadelta SUPER PAPER is better  . Though I'll give you the new one is great too.Some further thoughts: -I mostly sympathize with Gohda. He's basically a high class chef who was used to having an extensive support staff to serve most dishes, with him only stepping in with whatever the masterpiece of the night was. Also, he's got to feel some resentment over being outranked in the servant hierarchy (so far as Kinzo is concerned) by teenagers, and that combined with the previous point means he's probably going to take it out on them to at least a minor extent due to wounded pride. Finally, I'm pretty sure most of the scenes where we've seen him being his worst were from Kanon's point of view, and Kanon has not exactly proven to have the nicest thoughts about many of those around him either. -Don't bother trying to explain what's happening in the meta-world in terms of no magic. The witches are already teleporting around in front of meta-Battler, and plenty of other magical crap is going to be happening there as well. If Bern and Lamda actually appear on the island still blatantly performing magic that's one thing, but that hasn't happened yet. As much as meta-Battler is denying witches exist he never bothers to try and explain what's going around him in the meta-world, and the witches aren't trying to make him. Stick to proving magic wasn't necessary to commit the crimes on the island, and you'll go far less crazy.
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Nov 27, 2016 07:01
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My interpretation of various designs in Ryukishi's works is his overwhelming thigh fetish.
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Nov 27, 2016 07:04
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oath2order posted:Are you positing that all of this witch nonsense is some form of hyper-advantaced aliens? Edit: Because that is perhaps a bit pretentious and  , I'll just chime in to say that I've been enjoying things thus far. I'll probably just keep to lurking much of the time, since the unraveling of the mystery is still enjoyable even without my direct participation in it.
NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 07:39
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ProfessorProf posted:My interpretation of various designs in Ryukishi's works is his overwhelming thigh fetish. Isn't it literally canon that half the designs in Umineko are because one of his coworkers or friends said she would cosplay any of Ryushiki's characters and he was like 'bitch, triple dog dare?'
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Nov 27, 2016 07:52
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"Please cosplay as original art Higurashi characters. Include the mitten hands."
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Nov 27, 2016 08:31
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Robindaybird posted:Did you give yourself at avatar resurgram or did someone else? Because it's highly apropos Did I... Oh! Look at that, my first inherited avatar! Nope, that isn't mine, but I'm flattered. And slightly worried somebody might be calling me incompetent. (But mostly flattered. Seriously, thanks, whoever  )
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Nov 27, 2016 13:04
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I've decided to double down on my Rosa obsession: I think she had a different mother from her "siblings", specifically the Beatrice-of-rumor that Kinzo loved in the past. I would say "and that's why she looks like the portrait of Beatrice", except there's some other hinkery going on there. In episode 1 it only arrived on the island two years ago (with Gohda, weirdly), and of course in episode 2 it changes to match the "19th person".
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Nov 27, 2016 16:15
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resurgam40 posted:Did I... Oh! Look at that, my first inherited avatar! Nope, that isn't mine, but I'm flattered. And slightly worried somebody might be calling me incompetent. (But mostly flattered. Seriously, thanks, whoever Well, I think they wanted to buy you the one where Battler was pointing while crying, but couldn't find it in time.
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Nov 27, 2016 18:17
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Bernkastel posted:Wanting to know the world outside the well, I tried to crawl up from the bottom. So, who are Bernkastel and Lambdadelta? Or more specifically, who are they in terms of call backs to Higurashi? Lambdadelta is ostensibly a new character in Umineko, though some very obvious conclusions can be drawn having played Higurashi. Bernkastel, on the other hand, is a fairly enigmatic figure in Higurashi. Every episode starts with a poem, attributed to a mysterious figure named Frederica Bernkastel. To explain this, I'll need to explain in some detail what Higurashi is actually all about. For that reason, the rest of the post will be in spoilers, in case anyone is currently going through Higurashi while they wait for updates for this thread. In Higurahshi, your point of view is this guy:  Keichi Maebara Unlike Umineko, Higurashi doesn't isolate the core cast members, but instead is something like a Japanese version of Twin Peaks or Stranger Things. It takes place in a rural Japanese town in 1983 where the residents worship a mysterious kami known as Oyashiro-Sama. Every year, following a festival to Oyashiro-Sama, one person dies and one person goes missing. When that continues again in 1983, Keichi begins to suspect his life is in danger, and the people in his Nakama (translators note: Nakama means "Best Friends, but in Japanese") may be trying to kill him. Some things follow from that and by the time everything gets resolved, everyone pretty much ends up dead. This then repeats in various permutations about a half dozen times. Unlike with Umineko, there's no meta-narrative and no real explanation at all for what is causing the repeating narrative. That is until Episode 6, where we learn who the real main character is all along.  Rika Furude Mii, Nipah~ This young girl is the shrine preistess of the Oyashiro-Sama cult and due to her bond with the spirit, she's been constantly resetting time from the moment of her death, trying to find a Fragment of Reality--"Kakera" where she can survive. In other words, Rika is a 9 year old girl who has lived out hundreds, if not thousands of years, in a Groundhog Day style cycle where she always ends up brutally murdered in the end. Bernkastel is described in game a result of Rika's culminated personality after thousands of tragedies. At some point, RIka simply gave up trying to survive past 1983, and Bernkastel separated from Rika and became her own entity. Thus, it is said that Bernkastel searched through infinite Kakera to find a miracle. Why did she have a hard time? That's because of a particular person who had a certain will and was absolutely determined to kill Rika.  Takano Miyo For various complicated reasons, Takano absolutely had to kill Furude Rika. There is no direct connection between Lamdbadelta and Takano in Higurashi, but Lambda's lines strongly connect her character to Takano, and the name Lambdadelta and Miyo can both be read as "34." I think it would probably be best to say that Lambdadelta blessed Takano's hard work and 'certain will', and lent Takano her support. This, then, was the nature of Lambdadelta and Bernkastel's game, and why, if nothing else, Bernkastel is really pretty tired of Lambda's poo poo. Bernkastel posted:After the first time, I resolve to try again against the tragedy I couldn’t avoid. oath2order fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 19:09
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Oh, poo poo. I did not make the connections there. That's really cool. And horrible. Actually, it's just horrible. gently caress witches, they're assholes.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:01
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If I remember right, in the Higurashi anime, doesn't Takano meet with some benefactors or something, and one of them appears to be Lambda without her face being revealed?
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Nov 27, 2016 20:42
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ProfessorProf posted:Oh, and technically from EP3, but I present this concise summary of Umineko as a whole: The futility of the opposing arguments almost makes it seem like they're just making excuses to hang out with each other. Aww, what if Battler's ultimate task is to support Beatrice in recovering from whatever hosed up poo poo happened to her and they fall in loooove?  poo poo, I've become that most horrible of creatures—a shipper!
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Nov 28, 2016 03:00
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So if you say there are five master keys twice, does that mean there are actually ten master keys?
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Nov 28, 2016 04:19
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Glazius posted:So if you say there are five master keys twice, does that mean there are actually ten master keys? No, it means there are 25 master keys. Always good to have spares handy!
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Nov 28, 2016 05:13
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Good morning. This is a surprise, that even you do not surrender. The Golden Witch has exceedingly high expectations of you. Have you perhaps come to realize the structure of this world? There can be no victory without knowing the rules. Please enjoy a hearty game with the Witch. The difficulty level is fair. Fair for you, and fair for the Witch.  BGM: White Shadow Even as young as I was, it still forced me to take a deep breath when I witnessed its beauty. Of course, it was a member of Grandfather's favorite collection. So that I didn't accidentally destroy its fragile beauty, I was always given strict orders never to touch it. ...But that just made me want to touch it. It looked light... and yet so elegant that just glancing at it gave it an indescribable sense of dignity. I wanted to see what it felt like to touch a vase like that. However... just as Grandfather had said, it was a thing that shouldn't be touched. Something this beautiful should never be touched. Such beauty can only dwell in something so easily broken. Because of that, just the brush of a finger by someone like me would...  I realized that, because of my own foolish curiosity, I had done something that couldn't be taken back. No matter how much I regretted it, no matter how much I apologized... The broken vase would not be returned to its original form... Grandfather will probably scold me. Probably very harshly. I ended up breaking into tears and sobbing, frightened... As I did, I noticed something... beautiful. Lightly dancing golden butterflies...were coming towards me. As mysteriously glowing golden dots shone in the air, the butterflies began to gather, one at a time. Oh, it's Beatrice. Beatrice, that reliable Golden Witch, had arrived.  She was always there for me. Whenever I was in trouble, she'd always appear and save me.  "Good day to you, princess." "Beatrice! Waaaah, hic, hic...!" "Oh, my... Why are you crying so, and on a day so well-suited for a tea party...?" "...I broke Grandfather's precious vase... Waah, Grandfather's gonna get mad at me. I don't know what to do... Hic..." "I see, that is worrying. The Master really treasured this particular vase, didn't he? Hohohoho, imagining how he'll punish you scares even me, Beatrice."Grandfather was a very frightening person. And when you failed to follow something he said even once, he would become so mad, with a rage that would make even the fallen angels in hell quiver. Since I knew that down to my bones, I couldn't do anything but tremble and cry... "I possess no magic that can scoop up your fallen tears, princess, but if you need magic that will prevent the Master from scolding you, I might be able to manage something." "R-Really...?" "...I-I believe... I believe in your power, Beatrice. So please, fix this vase. Please...!" "If that is what you want, princess. Then leave it to me, Beatrice." But even that was enough to give me a small glimpse at Beatrice's wonderful and awesome magic power. She pointed her cane at the broken vase, and, just like a child's lullaby, she began speaking the magic words...  Were they words, or was it a song? No, it had to be magic. After all, can't you see? The pieces of the vase are rapidly gathering together, gently returning to the place where they'd been on display... reassembling into their original form. "...Incredible..." "See? Now it's back to normal. This way, you won't have to get yelled at by the Master." BGM: Hope "That's not true. Returning something broken to its original form is a very, very difficult thing to do. My magic can only make it remember what it once was for a short time." "...? But the vase really turned back to the way it was, right...?" "Correct. But that doesn't mean the vase has avoided its fate of being broken. All I did was temporarily get the broken vase to remember its form before it broke. I have not yet attained the high levels of magical power that might be used to restore a broken fate to its original form." I noticed that several of the servants had gathered... and were cleaning up the remains of the broken vase. From what they said, it seemed a black cat had sneaked in from somewhere and had climbed up on the vase, causing it to break. I understood the meaning of Beatrice's words. At the moment I broke the vase, 'the vase was broken'. Beatrice let me see the vase being restored, but that was a temporary thing. It didn't mean she'd changed the fate of 'the vase being broken'. And so, the vase remembered its true fate and 'broke'. However, the one who broke it wasn't me, but a cat that had snuck in... That's right. Beatrice never said 'Let's fix the vase'. She said she'd prevent the Master from scolding me. The fate of the vase breaking hasn't changed, but the fact that I broke it certainly has... Beatrice cleverly saved me from danger with that magic...  "...Then, is fixing stuff really hard...?" "It is. It's so hard that you broke down crying, unsure of what to do." "...Does that mean magic is easier to use when doing terrifying things? That breaking... and killing is really easy, but fixing and reviving things is really hard...?" "...That's right. With magic, it is far easier to break and kill. That's why weak witches lose to temptation and become intoxicated with gathering easy power for themselves, neglecting their true magical training. Real magic is the power to repair, to revive. To summon happiness that has disappeared, to summon love that has grown cold. And, it can even summon a smile to the face of a princess who has forgotten how." "Then... Beatrice, since you managed to fix that vase, does that mean you're an incredible witch?" "So, if it kept breaking and breaking, she'd be able to fix it over and over again...?" "Yes. When one reaches that level, they are considered to be an Endless Witch. That is the endless level that all witches ought to reach. We offer the utmost respect to those witches and call them by that title." "An Endless Witch..." "That's right. To witches with the power to mend things endlessly, the concept of breaking doesn't even exist. They are released from all the sadness caused by losing things and are promised eternal bliss."Certainly, the human world is full of sadness caused by separation and loss. To escape that sadness, people pray to gods and ask for the power to withstand their sadness, believing it to be a test... In other words, a human's life is a journey, searching for a way to withstand sadness. In that case, a witch who could revive all things would be freed from all sadness in the world. Simply put, that would mean eternal bliss...  "You, princess...? Hohohoh. It is a long, long, difficult path, you see?" "I want to become a witch. ...I want to find happiness. Beatrice, I want to become your disciple." "...Do you have even a trace of doubt in that feeling?" "No. I want to become a witch too." "...I understand. Then, until you get tired of me, I will make you my disciple. Will you call me Master?" "Yes, Master." "That's a good answer. Then from now on, learn the depths of magic along with me. I am also in training. Let us both learn the proper use of magic, doing our best to reach that blissful level." "Yes, Teacher...!"  BGM: The Candles Dance An Endless Witch, was it? That rank I'd yearned for in the past as the highest possible achievement... was now just another one of my titles. No, you might even call it my name.  "...Every once in a while, being called that can be quite satisfying. I trained so many days to achieve that rank." "...It'd be a bit of a waste if I never got a chance to appreciate it. *cackle*cackle*cackle*."She shook her head lightly. If it's the highest possible level, that means there's nothing higher. An eternal dead end, the beginning of eternal boredom.  "I remember what Teacher told me. When one is released from all sadness, it is the same as eternal bliss. That's what makes me think... that Teacher couldn't ever have reached that level." But it all depends on how you look at it. Eternal boredom is the same as a sketchbook that doesn't run out of pages. It means you can draw whatever you want, can try to have as much fun as you want. Boredom is the worst sort of poison, which kills all witches. Even those Great Witches who are given the title 'Lady' fear it. It's the eternal poison that tortures them because of the eternal bliss they've reached... "Now that I've earned the name of Endless Witch, I truly wish I could speak with Teacher again. Is 'happiness' really what lay at the end of our training? And just what is 'happiness'? I wish I could talk with her about that now."'Training has no end. When you think you've reached the eternal level, that's exactly the time to bemoan your own immaturity.' I recalled those words as though she'd answered me directly. "*cackle*cackle*, hahhahahahahahahahaha... I see, so I'm immature, am I?! How amusing, how truly amusing. *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*!"The sound of painfully shrill laughter rang out. It was coming from my furniture. What, did they break their toy again?  BGM: Golden Sneer  "And I haven't had nearly enough fun yet. What a pathetic man." "But I haven't gotten a chance to play at all yet! Let me play, let me plaaay!" "Be silent, filth! If you keep devouring him like starving dogs, of course he'll keep breaking right away, no matter how well Beatrice-sama fixes him up." "You broke him the most, Satan-nee. You just don't know what holding back means." "My apologies, Beatrice-sama. Please forgive my stupid little sisters." "Fix him quicklyyy! I'm next, I'm neeext!" """""""Eeep!!"""""""A single yell was all it took to make the noisy Sisters of the Seven Stakes vanish. All they do is mess around, having as much fun as they want breaking him. They only come to me to clean up afterwards. Truly, this furniture never leaves me bored. Once the furniture hid themselves, all that remained was a sloppy mess, the last remnants of a broken toy. It had no form anymore.  "...It's hard even for me to remember its original form in this state. Better to make it remember for itself, perhaps. Oh, well."I waved my golden pipe. Then I spoke. I chanted. I made it remember.  "I've no idea which part is your arm and which is your leg. Unless you remember, I won't even be able to recall your face. *cackle*cackle*cackle*!"By the power of magic, the pitiful pieces of meat began to remember what their form had been. Which part should go with which part, and where should join with where? That's right, just like that. No, no, you should be a finger on the left hand. That's the right hand. That's it, good, good, *cackle*. "...Good morning. Have you woken up, Ushiromiya Battler? How ironic, that your true nightmare begins after you awaken." "If you would just accept that I am a witch, you'll quickly wake up from this nightmare, and I'll send you to heaven. I am the king of Mount Purgatory. There's no escape from this hell without my approval." "Heh... hehehehe. You call this hell? That's just no good. Aah, it's no goddamn good at all." "I'm impressed you can still talk like that, after experiencing the pain of death not once, like any normal human, but more times than I could count with all of my fingers. *cackle* This is why I never get bored. I never get bored of you." "Yeah, no boredom problem here. After all, I get my pick of those busty babes with the dazzling asses in my harem. Thanks to that, I'm not likely to get bored for a while now." "*cackle*cackle*, *cackle*cackle*cackle*! That's splendid. Otherwise I would get bored too. So, my furniture, I've fixed him, so you can play as much as you want." "Thank you very much! Kyaha, all mine!" "I told you, your turn's over, I'm next! Get away from him, waaah!" "Heheheheheh. Wonderful, isn't it, Battler-kuuun? Look how popular you are." "Popular guys have it rough. Get in line, freaks." "If you just stayed obedient instead of acting tough, this would go much easier." "Nah, he's good like this. His screams feel so much better." "Okay, let's not break him so quickly this time. Did you all hear me?!" "You aren't running this show!"  "...Well, maybe... That's it, they used a fishing line or something, sending just the key into the room through the crack of the door..." "Kyahhahahahahahaha!! Wrooong!" "So naive. Of all of the doors that exist on Rokkenjima, none has a crack through which a key can slip." "He was wrong, right, right? Okay, this time it's me, my turn! Wheeere should I strike?!" "Me, back of the hand!" "No faaair! Okay, then I've got the back of his other hand!" "I'll take the tip of his nose!" "Why, why? Let me do it too, let me strike too! Waaah!!" "Don't be so slow, Levia-nee! We've always done first come, first serve! Okay, I'll take the top of his foot!" "Waaah!! Me too, me too! I'll take his shoulder, okay?!" "...I can't believe you're still resisting. Why haven't you realized that your false courage actually gets us fired up?" "Sorry, but... false courage and being stubborn are my specialties. No matter how you all try to confuse the issues, I definitely won't accept witches and magic...!" "Even though you can't explain anything with human tricks? Are you stupid?! Know your place!" "It's okay, we don't have to force him to accept it. Soon, he'll wanna accept it so hard he'll start crying. Even now, he really wants to kneel down on the ground pitifully and beg our forgiveness!"  "Aaaah, he's broken already! Beatrice-sama!" "...Ah, well. Since they know I can revive him over and over, my furniture won't even hesitate to break him. Good grief."Giving eternal rebirth and eternal death at will. Before the Endless Witch Beatrice, all death and life has no meaning. Even death can't become the key to escape from my cage. "Come, Battler. Remember your original form again. I'll toy with you to my heart's content, understand?" "I see, I see, how truly pleasant to have a toy to play with for all eternity. Ah, could this be the endless bliss witches gain at the endless level?" "I see, I see. Yes, this bliss certainly is amusing. *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*! Wahhahahahahahahahahahaha!! I'll revive you over and over, kill you over and over!"  Video: OpeningSame as in EP2.  LET'S PLAY UMINEKO NO NAKU KORO NI, EPISODE 3: BANQUET OF THE GOLDEN WITCH Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Dec 2, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 14:34
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.... What? Were we seeing some of Beatrice's backstory, there, when she was a mortal girl? Because if so, that means that "Beatrice" isn't a name, but an inherited title, which would explain the font choices for that name that Prof's translation is using. It also explains why she takes such a shine to Maria, through relating with her situation as an unhappy daughter of a rich and abusive family, and it makes me wonder if the last Beatrice was trapped as well; maybe it's just a thing witches do, to train marginalized, abused women in secret powers... it would certainly explain why some go crazy, as Beato the Silver indicated. Wow, I'm using explain a lot, forgive me. But if all this is true, then it makes what Beatrice is doing even more incomprehensible and horrible, because she sure as hell isn't fixing anything that I can see, just eternally breaking them. Why visit an abused child, set her up to become the next you, and then just feed her to her mother to get a rise out of somebody else? Does that mean she's failed, and has fallen? Maybe, but it looks like she's not seeking power or knowledge, just entertainment... or freedom from boredom. Wow, of all the things about witches this game says or alludes to, that's maybe the thing that skeeves me out the most: the prospect of climbing so high and gaining so much knowledge that literally nothing stimulates you anymore, so you go and torture a group of people just to see if you can still feel something. Maybe that's why Battler makes her so happy: because for the first time in forever, there's somebody who's so myopic, stubborn, and/or just plain stupid that won't accept her no matter what and whom she can't just annihilate at her whim. vvv Ah, but we've already heard from Lady Bernestakle's story that one thousand years might not be one thousand years as we measure time; time is weird as witches reckon it, because it could be a repeated time frame, or just through existing in a dimension outside of time. Honestly, the way some of these witches have talked about times passage or lack thereof, I don't think even they know how old they actually are and just throw out the "thousand year old" thing because it sounds imposing. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 15:26
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The greatest mystery so far: How to prove Beatrice isn't a natural blond if she didn't use hair dye? But in all seriousness, there's something to consider: Beatrice claims to have lived a thousand years. If this is her memory and Silver Beatrice is someone else, then...well, it doesn't feel like this is set somewhere in the 11th century. The roof of one of the buildings is a bit too modern, isn't it? And Silver Beatrice is wearing something that'd be more at home in the 18th century or up. So maybe she's been looping awhile and counting years based on that.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:47
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This makes me think Beatrice as a title is like the witch equivalent a College Sorority that's been taken over by a jerkass student who can keep paying for tuition and refuses to graduate, but for centuries on and on. Oh and a whole lot more murdering and other witchcraft.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:48
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There's a lot to be said about EP3 but I suppose it's better to wait until later before getting into specifics. It's another good one though. Anyway, at least Battler has cheered up in time for this round.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:55
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Welcome to the second best episode!
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Nov 28, 2016 18:59
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We're getting to the point where the previous lp died off. Soon, it will be all fresh content. 
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Nov 28, 2016 20:08
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