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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:I already know the answer to this question, but have of those lauding Castro in this thread actually ever lived in Cuba for any length of time? No, but there are plenty of Cubans around here to give their views on Castro's Cuba.
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Nov 27, 2016 02:24
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Homework Explainer posted:are we just ignoring the first decade of fsln rule which came about from armed struggle, then Who is ignoring that. Samoza and his regime needed to be eliminated, but the Sadinistas didn't unlike Castro try to destroy all legitimate political opposition.
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Nov 27, 2016 03:11
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Friendly Humour posted:No, but there are plenty of Cubans around here to give their views on Castro's Cuba. I have a sneaking suspicion that anyone with first hand or even second hand information from Cuban conditions would be seen as invalid by certain people since they obviously felt the need to leave ASAP so they obviously won't have an unbiased view of life there.
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Nov 27, 2016 03:17
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fidel made cuba relevant during the cold war, which in turn made all those puns about cuba launching rockets possible, and for that he should be mourned. Rest in Peace, Fidel Castro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRRe85loYo&t=30s
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Nov 27, 2016 04:11
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Magrov posted:fidel made cuba relevant during the cold war, which in turn made all those puns about cuba launching rockets possible, and for that he should be mourned. Finally a good post about this whole thing.
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Nov 27, 2016 04:13
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So how are things going in Nicaragua? Are they doing good in poverty reduction and left wing policies?
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Nov 27, 2016 06:20
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punk rebel ecks posted:So how are things going in Nicaragua? Are they doing good in poverty reduction and left wing policies? yep, though they haven't come close to the kind of radical advances made from 79-90 for....some reason Crowsbeak posted:Who is ignoring that. Samoza and his regime needed to be eliminated, but the Sadinistas didn't unlike Castro try to destroy all legitimate political opposition. and they paid dearly for it when that strategy left an opening for the loving contras and billions of dollars pumped into fsln opposition from the west. do you, like, know anything about the history of nicaragua
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Nov 27, 2016 07:12
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Homework Explainer posted:yep, though they haven't come close to the kind of radical advances made from 79-90 for....some reason While I hardly will defend what America did. Frankly its far better then what Castro has done to Cuba, having nice healthcare is great. But when the equal prosperity is only there because you cut off your people from any investments, its not worth it. Also they won elections before America said it would end its embargo if they lost. Also Ortega currently is keeping order in the country unlike in Honduras and Guatemala.
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Nov 27, 2016 08:36
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Homework Explainer posted:are you asking in cuba's case specifically or more generally? because the way unions operate in cuba is the way they operate in other socialist countries: as mediators between the party, managers and the workers in each firm Unions in countries whose political system is heavily influenced by the USSR had absolutely piss weak trade unions who did nothing to stop the exploitation of the workers by the state, which was little better (& often worse because at least liberal countries had some degree of protections for workers, which "obviously" wasn't necessary in the first workers state...) than the worst capitalists. Or are you one of those insufferable Tankie fuckwits who thinks that Alexander Shliapnikov and the Workers Opposition got what they deserved? While I have no knowledge of the particulars of unions in Cuba, the fact you claim they operate as in other Leninist countries is a pretty damning admission from the perspective of a socialist who cares less about what a state calls its ideology and more about how it actually treats the working class.
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Nov 27, 2016 12:17
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Crowsbeak posted:While I hardly will defend what America did. Frankly its far better then what Castro has done to Cuba, having nice healthcare is great. But when the equal prosperity is only there because you cut off your people from any investments, its not worth it. Also they won elections before America said it would end its embargo if they lost. Also Ortega currently is keeping order in the country unlike in Honduras and Guatemala. Castro was a monster who gave his people one of the best healthcare and education systems in the world instead of giving them the opportunity of investment and full potential, as seen in the blossoming quality of life of the average Haitian, Dominican or Jamaican. Just imagine if the Socialist boot wasn't stomping Cuba for decades, they could've had a tremendously rich country just like Mexico, where people rip off each other's faces chainsaws and half the country is controlled by drug cartels. ~~~liberal liberty is an amazing thing~~~ Mans fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 14:12
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Remember when the biggest economy in the world saw an island literally in front of it organize a socialist revolution, fought off an amphibious invasion by the US army and then mantained a superior life quality to all those around it despite a tremendous blocade while the pet allies of said giant country in the region couldn't raise their minimum wages or else the US wouldn't send hurricane aid and are little more than drug, prostitution and first world hotel resorts?
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Nov 27, 2016 14:15
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Mans posted:Castro was a monster who gave his people one of the best healthcare and education systems in the world instead of giving them the opportunity of investment and full potential, as seen in the blossoming quality of life of the average Haitian, Dominican or Jamaican. He was a monster that murdered and tortured thousands, and deprived them of political and civil rights. If you actually lived in Cuba you'd see the "best Healthcare" they have is a myth. I'm surprised at thr amount of well off goons, living in free countries, praising the totalitarian Marxist Cuban system "bbbbbbut they had Healthcare." Honestly, liberty or death.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:22
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Non Serviam posted:He was a monster that murdered and tortured thousands, and deprived them of political and civil rights. torturou foi pouco, putinha.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:24
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Mans posted:torturou foi pouco, putinha. 50+ years of tyranny, murder and torture. Any other mass murderers you masturbate to?
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Nov 27, 2016 14:25
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Mans posted:Remember when the biggest economy in the world saw an island literally in front of it organize a socialist revolution, fought off an amphibious invasion by the US army and then mantained a superior life quality to all those around it despite a tremendous blocade while the pet allies of said giant country in the region couldn't raise their minimum wages or else the US wouldn't send hurricane aid and are little more than drug, prostitution and first world hotel resorts? Wait.. You're saying Cuba had a superior life quality? Yeah, that's why thousands died trying to get away.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:27
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Mans posted:Castro was a monster who gave his people one of the best healthcare and education systems in the world instead of giving them the opportunity of investment and full potential, as seen in the blossoming quality of life of the average Haitian, Dominican or Jamaican.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:28
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Forgall posted:Why do they have to keep people in the country by force then? People who wanted to leave were all Batista supporters and CIA spies.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:30
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Non Serviam posted:Wait.. You're saying Cuba had a superior life quality? thousands die every day in the rest of the Caribbeans wishing they had the "misery" of Cuba hth Forgall posted:Why do they have to keep people in the country by force then? because brain drain is a serious issue in any country that isn't from the first world and the economic blocade for entire decades also meant you can't exactly enact proper emigration policy with the US? Do you live under minimum wage in Haiti or Jamaica?
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Nov 27, 2016 14:35
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Mans posted:thousands die every day in the rest of the Caribbeans wishing they had the "misery" of Cuba hth So this is how fantasies look, uh. Please tell me which Caribbean country had this thousands per die death toll, you totalitarian imbecile.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:37
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pouring out an Havana Club is honor of my homey Fidel, if there's one flaw i can give to him is that he didn't commit the same level of anti-colonial revolutionary struggle that he did to liberate far east asia and africa from western hordes to his comrades in south america. FARC will win.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:38
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Non Serviam posted:So this is how fantasies look, uh. You wouldn't know because you never went to any of those countries outside of the hotel resorts for spoiled sons of Colombian aristocracy.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:40
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Mans posted:thousands die every day in the rest of the Caribbeans wishing they had the "misery" of Cuba hth
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Nov 27, 2016 14:45
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do pro-life conservatives hate Cuba because their healthcare allows Cuban children to die at a much lower rate than American children? is american conservatism simple envy with regards to Cuba? the answer is yes.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:46
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Forgall posted:So people have to be imprisoned because your economy can't function without their forced labor? i don't know, do you? http://returntonow.net/2016/06/13/prison-labor-is-the-new-american-slavery/
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Nov 27, 2016 14:47
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Mans posted:You wouldn't know because you never went to any of those countries outside of the hotel resorts for spoiled sons of Colombian aristocracy. I'm not Colombian, but please, go on. ☺️
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Nov 27, 2016 14:49
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Friendly reminder to all the revolutionaries in this thread that there are plenty of places where they can go and get shot for their crackpot cause. It's never too late.
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Nov 27, 2016 14:50
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Non Serviam posted:So this is how fantasies look, uh. cuba under batista for one. how's the president who had a death boner for castro for a source John F. Kennedy, Democratic Dinner, 1960 posted:The third, and perhaps most disastrous of our failures, was the decision to give stature and support to one of the most bloody and repressive dictatorships in the long history of Latin American repression. Fulgencio Batista murdered 20,000 Cubans in 7 years - a greater proportion of the Cuban population than the proportion of Americans who died in both World Wars, and he turned democratic Cuba into a complete police state - destroying every individual liberty. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=25660
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Nov 27, 2016 15:53
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Homework Explainer posted:the reading also details how that might have been true in 1960, but in the decade after unions found far greater degrees of autonomy and a key role in the system dealing with the "non-antagonistic contradictions," as the cubans borrowed from mao. it's a mistake to assume unions would have the exact same role they do in a capitalist country and to present any deviation from that role as some kind of betrayal I read and I still don't see how the SPDE or how any of the labor organs made Cuba actually democratic at all. What I'm saying here is that is that independent verification is needed like with the healthcare system and I just don't see it in any of these sources.
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Nov 27, 2016 15:57
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Homework Explainer posted:cuba under batista for one. how's the president who had a death boner for castro for a source He said per day, and currently, not 60 years ago over several years. Good try though. Regardless, Batista regime justifies the thousands of murders Castro committed? Or the lack of democracy? You are defending a tyrant.
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Nov 27, 2016 16:10
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Non Serviam posted:So this is how fantasies look, uh. Haiti François Duvalier had roaming militias which killed over 30 thousand people, his regime was funded by the US as a bastion against communism in the Caribbean.  His son suceeded him, was still funded by the US, still killed tortured and raped thousands. Also on cubans going to the US because of communism, I guess Mexico must also be communist, and most of Central America too.
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Nov 27, 2016 16:15
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Non Serviam posted:He said per day, and currently, not 60 years ago over several years. Good try though. wait, there are thousands of cubans currently being killed by the cuban dictatorship per day? bagual posted:Haiti Trujillo was pretty awful too. Magrov fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 16:15
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Magrov posted:wait, there are thousands of cubans currently being killed by the cuban dictatorship per day? No, he said that it's better than any of the other Caribbean countries where thousands are dying per day. I love that now this turned into "this Haitian warlord killed more. Clearly Castro was better by enslaving his country for 50 years and being a Soviet puppet"
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Nov 27, 2016 16:20
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Non Serviam posted:No, he said that it's better than any of the other Caribbean countries where thousands are dying per day. ah, i see. i misread something. carry on with the genocide olympics.
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Nov 27, 2016 16:22
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Magrov posted:ah, i see. i misread something. carry on with the genocide olympics. The only games with more medals than competitors.
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Nov 27, 2016 16:34
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Non Serviam posted:I was being facetious. I don't have an issue with the left, I have problems with totalitarians, on either side, who are so convinced they're right that they're willing to spill blood for it. Another thing I have in common with ISIS is that I think you should be executed on camera with an anti air gun shot to the head or beheaded with a letter opener.
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Nov 27, 2016 16:35
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Non Serviam posted:No, he said that it's better than any of the other Caribbean countries where thousands are dying per day. quote:Please tell me which Caribbean country had this thousands per die death toll You literally asked for this. edit: and I'm not actually very fond of Castro, Allende is more up my alley, it's just that anti-communism actually justified more killing and crimes against humanity in this part of the world, and contributes to our region staying hosed like any talk of land reform is met with COMMIES ARE ORGANIZING GUERILAS TO TAKE OUR LAND and whatnot. bagual fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 16:42
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Magrov posted:wait, there are thousands of cubans currently being killed by the cuban dictatorship per day? Non serviam is probably referencing the execution of Batista loyalists in the immediate aftermath of the revolution and during the suppression of pro-Batista insurgents who continued to resist the Castro regime into the mid-1960s. Amnesty International estimated there were 237 death sentences and 216 executions before 1987, typically with minimal adherence to international standards of due process, and mostly occurring just after the revolution. Executions have occurred since then with lower frequency. Some writers have estimated much higher figures, although politicization of the issue may encourage the promotion of unsubstantiated numbers. There is some evidence anti-Castro insurgents were not given the opportunity to surrender in many cases and killed immediately without quarter. Cuban prisons have been criticized for the use of forced labor and failure to meet international standards of human rights. One wonders which Latin American states do meet those standards. Squalid fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 17:09
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Squalid posted:Cuban prisons have been criticized for the use of forced labor and failure to meet international standards of human rights. One wonders which Latin American states do meet those standards. you don't even have to limit it to latin america, honestly
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Nov 27, 2016 17:16
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Another thing I have in common with ISIS is that I think you should be executed on camera with an anti air gun shot to the head or beheaded with a letter opener. Shouldn't you be playing some anime mmorpg, tough guy?
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Nov 27, 2016 17:29
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Non Serviam posted:Shouldn't you be playing some anime mmorpg, tough guy? Shouldn't you be giving Kissinger's shriveled and limp old man dick a BJ
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Nov 27, 2016 17:31
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